New video: Torching a .22 LR Cartridge

[BadgerArms]

Okay, I have another video up of a .22 LR cartridge being set off with a torch.


http://youtu.be/mMUF4HIHWjw

[35remington]

The problem with gelatin is it lacks the same "threshold penetration velocities" that skin has. Many years ago the Army advanced through testing that it took about 400 fps to reliably penetrate skin and produce a potentially disabling or fatal wound.

Since skin moves backward with the impact and stretches, and gelatin has different qualities than that, it's difficult when observing results in gelatin to produce a "threshold" penetration that would equate to penetrating the skin. You'd be better off in trying a pointblank shot of 400 fps from a pneumatic air rifle with a BB to "calibrate" the minimum threshold.....and that says nothing about whether the projectile really should be fat or small in diameter, nor its weight, in calculating a "serious wound." It may be a 400 fps projectile of .36 caliber like a roundball would be more relevant, or maybe something bigger.

As I recall the Army wasn't using BBs, but rather heavier projectiles in making their assessments that 400 fps was the minimum needed.

I very much doubt a 22 long rifle case "fired" as in this test, and as light and as large in cross section as its case head is, would penetrate human skin and produce a fatal or even disabling wound unless it hit you in the eye.

[longbow]

Well, maybe not disabling and certainly not fatal (or I wouldn't be posting) but many years ago when I was a young lad and not following proper procedures I was neck annealing some brass and I managed somehow to get a primed cartridge in the mix. The result a few seconds after I heated the neck of the primed cartridge was that the primer went off, went through my shirt and skin then bounced off a rib. I had to dig the little thing out of me. It hurt going and and coming out.

The moral of the story is do things right and safety first. Even things as small as primers can do significant damage.

I would agree that it is unlikely that .22 brass would penetrate skin and flesh as far as it penetrated into gelatin in the video but I am betting it could easily draw blood.

Longbow

[35remington]

longbow, I recall a guy shot a primer in a fixture designed to let the anvil escape and recorded a velocity of around 1400 fps. That's penetrative. A primer blown out of the pocket may have good speed. But an intact case, unlikely.

If the whole primer hadn't bounced off the rib it may have penetrated, as I bet that exceeded the 400 fps threshold. The only thing in your favor was primers are light (anvil and cup may have gone their separate ways......maybe you only dug out one or the other, likely the cup.....or maybe both were still there). Either way, primers, depending upon size, are in the range of a BB. Maybe more in the case of a LR or LP primer.

[Bullwolf]

I had a roommate who liked to throw dud 22 LR shells into the cold fire pit.

It was just poetic justice (or Murphy's law) that he was standing by the fire one night when a 22 shell went pop. It just barely broke the skin of his forearm. I recall him reaching up and pinching out the 22 lead boolit and sheepishly throwing it away. Took him a while to fess up to what had happened. Never saw him toss another dud in the fire pit after that.

Maybe it was somewhat more contained (packed in?) in the ashes than free floating on a cinder block. Anyways that was my one time experience with the phenomenon. It was definitely low powered, and if he had on a long sleeve shirt it may not have even broke the skin.


- Bullwolf

[dakotashooter2]

When I was young the neighbor kid, probably about 6 tried to use a .22 round as a nail............... chewed up his fingers pretty good but no permanent damage.

[BadgerArms]

Maybe it was somewhat more contained (packed in?) in the ashes than free floating on a cinder block. Anyways that was my one time experience with the phenomenon. It was definitely low powered, and if he had on a long sleeve shirt it may not have even broke the skin.
I don't think there is anything in the fire that is solid enough to contain the .22 and give it any extra velocity. Maybe crushed between two rocks, though?

[Bullwolf]

I don't think there is anything in the fire that is solid enough to contain the .22 and give it any extra velocity. Maybe crushed between two rocks, though?

No rocks, just clay and ashes surrounded by fire brick. I don't know how mangled the shell was either, just a round that did not go bang, and his particular habit. I believe he once mentioned that the lead would melt out of the 22 LR long before the shell went pop. He was mistaken with that one, and it nicked him - although the repercussions were quite mild.

It was the only one I recall ever hearing go pop in the fire pit, and frankly I was surprised that it managed to break the skin.

We used to press 12 shotgun shells into the mud/clay and shoot out the primers with a 22 LR. The shotgun shell would pop with a very mild report leaving the wad and shot in the mud.

Most of the time if there is no barrel/chamber to contain things, a shell wont do much if set off by itself. A center fire rounds primer typically will leave the case with more force than the projectile will.

SAAMI has an excellent video about the phenomenon posted on you tube, it has been re-posted here on cast boolits as well. It was very educational regarding what really happens in a fire, or a fall and the risks or lack thereof to responders. Many rounds were sacrificed in the name of science in the video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3SlOXowwC4c


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3SlOXowwC4c


- Bullwolf

[hendere]

Many years ago, my brother hit the bolt of a jammed 22 Mag with his hand in a moment of stupidity. The bullet of the round had caught on the feed ramp and was not in the chamber. It blew the back third or so of the case into his face on the side of his chin, about two inches into his face. It was removed surgically. The bullet did enter the barrel, but only barely.

[longbow]

Cup and anvil parted company so just the cup penetrated. It wasn't deep by any means but it sure hurt going in then digging it out hurt about the same.

Dumb! Just plain Dumb!

As they say, good judgment comes from experience and, a lot of that comes from bad judgment!

[BadgerArms]

Cup and anvil parted company so just the cup penetrated. It wasn't deep by any means but it sure hurt going in then digging it out hurt about the same.
If you look at the end of my video, we were able to collect nearly all primers from the gel for the most part. They were all shot either in one piece or just the cup. IIRC, the Shotgun primers were pretty deep. Should be posting the 12 &/or 20 gauge videos in the next two weeks.