SRT 77/44 Bison Load questions.

[Dermestes]

I am having SRT custom built suppressed 77/44 with a 11:1 twist 8 inch barrel. I am trying to determine if I should get it chambered in a 44 Special or 44 Magnum. For this gun I would like to only shoot the heaviest subsonic hand loads possible. This would be my first go at casting boolits and would like anyone's opinion about which I should go with and any suggestions about molds/loads.

Thanks

[Hickory]

WOW, that sounds like a close-in buffalo swatter.
Get ahold of Tom at Accurate molds.
http://www.accuratemolds.com/catalog.php?page=13

[Dermestes]

WOW, that sounds like a close-in buffalo swatter.
Get ahold of Tom at Accurate molds.
http://www.accuratemolds.com/catalog.php?page=13


Yeah its an under 100 yard gun for sure. It seems there is lots of options and I need to figure out which ones would work in the rotary magazine of the 77/44.

[nagantguy]

If you get it chambered in the mag flavor you'll have many many more options open to you. Just look at at a reloading manual in the one I just glanced at 6 pages for mag, 2 for special.

[dustydog]

SRT built me integral barrel for my encore pro hunter in 44 mag and the barell its self ie 11.75 " 1in 10 twist doughless ,mine slugs at .429 Im shooting the noe 434 310 gas checked sized to .431 and head spaced to just touch the lands with 16 gr of imr 4227 gives 1050fps and that's the most accurate so far at 1.5" groups at 100yds .if I HAD IT TO DO OVER I think I would go with a 44 special you would have more options I think the cases would seal better with less powder capacity

[dustydog]

that bullet cast from50/50 checked and pc weight 320gr

[runfiverun]

talking to tom over at accurate is an excellent idea.
giving him information such as your magazine length and what the feed ramps look like would be very helpful.
also if you have an idea of your throats shape and diameter it would help him, he could then give you an idea how much lead you would/could put inside a 44 mag case versus outside a 44 special case.
you could put enough more lead inside the mag case to equal the special in case volume while gaining another 25 grains of boolit weight by designing the nose slightly differently.
you still have to have a balance to the boolit's weight distribution or it will try to swap ends in flight and that will influence your final weight and accuracy over distance.

[Dermestes]

I sent Tom an email to see if he has any suggestions. It seems since most 77/44's are 20:1 twist that most heavy 44's boolits are around 300gr or so since stabilization is an issue. I am hoping for something around 400 or so.

[John Allen]

I just googled the SRT77/44 that is a nice piece.

[Dermestes]

I just googled the SRT77/44 that is a nice piece.

Yep I am getting the donor rifle from Buds and shipping to SRT directly hopefully today since all my Trust paperwork is ready.

[dustydog]

I love mine sounds like a naingun and hits like a sledgehammer

[Dermestes]

Here is some info from Tom that I received back:

The first thing to do is consult Greenhills formula for appropriate bullet length (weight).
I think I'd chamber for 44 mag since maximum weight bullet would be shorter and better supported for accuracy, since more of the weight will be in the full diameter body.
Then maybe pick up a spare magazine to measure how long the COAL can be.


The OAL seems to be around 1.610 from what I have read about people reloading for this gun.

[W.R.Buchanan]

If I might butt in here. Virtually all .44 cal revolvers have 1:20 twist barrels. I have seen one rifle that had a 1:16 twist barrel and shot up to 340 gr Boolits well. You definitely want a Magnum Chamber.

Accuracy from a 1:20 twist barrel will be just fine down to 600 fps and I doubt you would want to go much slower anyway as you are on the verge of sticking a boolit in the barrel much below 600 fps.

With the 77/44 gun the magazine is the length you need to worry about. It will swallow only about 1.610 which is a smidgeon longer than a .44 Mag (1.595) loaded with a 240 gr Jacketed HP style bullet.

By loading your Longer SWC boolits 280-310 gr in .44 Special cases you can achieve your objective of shooting at low speeds and still have serious punch of the heavy boolit.

With an 8" barrel or even up to 12" you are essentially shooting a bolt action pistol, and the speeds that you can achieve are going to be the same as the revolver.

By using the Magnum Chamber you also open up the possibilities of using heavy magnum revolver loads with jacketed or cast boolits as long as you don't exceed what the magazine can swallow*. This will make your gun more versatile in the long run. You are looking at a range of boolits from 190 gr to 340 gr, and getting 1000 fps out of a 310gr boolit from a Special Case is not that hard to do.

There are so many possibilities with the .44 Spec/Magnum it is mind boggling.

* And with the 77/44 you can always single load if your rounds are too long so really the sky is the limit. A 340 gr LBT LFN at 1500+ fps would be a serious **** Kicker.

After looking at the website and the videos this thing is way cool.

Randy

[Dermestes]

Who wouldn't want a 44 Magnum that sounds like a pellet rifle.

I would like to be able to use the magazine and have them feed correctly with whatever I come up with. I would never shoot anything over 1050 FPS since what would be the point in getting a suppressed rifle and hearing a sonic crack. From what I have read the 44 Special has the same OAL as the 44 Magnum (At least on the wikipedia pages) of 1.61. If the OAL of them is the same what would actually be the difference in the chambering of an aftermarket barrel? Would it hurt to shoot 44 Special cases in a Magnum chamber repeatedly? It seems the heavies't bullets max out around 400-405 grains but seating the 405gr Beartooth bullet in a magnum case ends up being 1.615 so shaving a little off the case may work if it would actually feed them correctly.

Buds guns wouldn't directly ship to SRT. Something about I have to have it transferred to me directly before shipping it to SRT so waiting on it to arrive to ship it off again. Thanks for the info so far.

[W.R.Buchanan]

In Revolvers, the chamber has a throat in the front that is the same size as the boolits. This is usually the same size or .001 larger than the groove dia.

The jump between the chamber and the throat when shooting shorter Specials ina magnum chamber sometimes will leave a ring of carbon fouling on the forward end of the chamber making it harder to chamber Magnum rounds after shooting a bunch of Specials. It is easily cleaned out.

You need to understand that if you fire a 400 gr boolit in a 6 lb. rifle even at 1000 fps it is going to kick the snot out of you. Don't know if you are aware of that or not?

Also if you go to www.beartoothbullets.com (http://www.beartoothbullets.com) there is a wealth of info on .44 boolits. There is little reason to go above 250-260 gr. with the round, and a 400 gr boolit loaded to 1.615 in a magnum case would indeed be stuffed in pretty far, and may generate some adverse pressure problems. Those loads are meant for Ruger Super Red Hawks which are good to about 75K psi. Your rifle is probably not that strong.

Believe me unless you are trying to shoot thru several cars 300 gr boolits are big enough for anything you would want to shoot with a suppressed rifle. if you really need 400 gr boolits then you might want to keep the muzzle blast as well for added effect.

To see what has been done with .44's go to www.garrettcartridges.com (http://www.garrettcartridges.com) and look thru their gallery. They have taken everything on earth with a .44 Magnum Revolver. The gun you are building is nothing more than a Bolt Action .44 Magnum revolver with a stock and a muffler.

I wouldn't worry too much about the power you have available. It's probably way more than you will ever be able to use.

Like I said the options with the .44 are endless.

Randy

[dustydog]

WR GIVES YOU SOME SAGE ADVICE with mine and the 44 mag chamber its not that easy to slow down to 1050fps with a 320gr bullet and powder combo that's both efficient and accurate at the same time.As for power, I think that wfn would shoot though three deer side by side.

[Dermestes]

Thanks for all the advice listed here. I picked up my stock 77/44 last night and will be shipping it off to SRT at the beginning of the week. I may have to find some factory loads to at least test it out this weekend before shipping it off.

[james nicholson]

I would chamber for the mag. Then cut a batch of brass half way between mag and spec and let the fun begin.

[Blackwater]

Addressing your specific question, the less powder you have to use, the quieter that suppressor is going to be able to be. Therefore, I'd go with the .44 Special, which would have the added benefit of letting you load some bullets with long noses that probably might not fit the magazine if loaded and crimped in the crimp groove in magnum cases. The only reason you'd ever want or need the maggie case is if you want SUPER sonic loads. The Special will do what you want to do, and likely do it better, actually, than the bigger magnum case.

[Dermestes]

Yeah I am still debating on the Special vs Magnum. The gun will be around 10lbs once back from SRT so it won't be as light as some have mentioned as a stock 77/44. I am not sure about the recoil with a very heavy bullet going 1050fps.

[W.R.Buchanan]

10 lbs will certainly make it more pleasant to shoot with heavy boolits. I still would do the Magnum Chamber as you can still shoot Specials in it.

Also if you want to shoot longer boolits in the Magnum cases you can always single load the gun.

A Red Dot sight on that gun would be my first choice as it is going to be a 100 yard gun in any case. I have no problem hitting a man sized target out to 200 yards with my carbines with Bushnell TRS25's for sights. It would provide you with a very quick sighting system to go along with your stealth factor and big punch.

Sounds like a great project I hope it works out for you.

Randy

Randy