Kaboom.....explosion.....

[JimP.]

My friend exploded his Ruger M-77 308 rifle yesterday. He sustained shrapnell wounds to his face with the most serious being a deep cut in his right cheeck next to his nose that poured blood for over a hour, he refused to go to the emergency room and had his wife patch him up. He has the possibility of a fractured maxillary on the right side where his cheeck was on the stock while he was aiming.

The Ruger contained the explosion, locked the bolt tight, directed the explosion down into the magazine well blowing the sides of the magazine well out splitting the laminated wood stock 20 inches. The bolt release went airborne hit him in his glasses and fell on the table. The extractor collar was blown up and bent out. Needless to say the rifle is wrecked.

He was shooting a 170 gr cast bullet that he loaded the night before. I suspect he got a double charge of 2400 which is what detonated and exploded his rifle.

I know that i am going to be more carefull with my loading procedures. He will be too. Damn that was a lot of blood, he wouldnt seek medical help, he's stubborn for sure.

Everybody lets take a second and think about this and make sure we are taking the proper loading steps, i know i will.

JimP.

[fishhawk]

Once primed I do one cartridge at a time and it doesn't leave my hand until the boolit is seated.

[Old Scribe]

Fortunately I have caught myself double loading a time or two as I'm sure many have. We all need to be more careful when reloading. The only time I didn't catch a double load was with my .50 cal flinter. Not paying attention and yakking while I was loading, I fired the round and fortunately didn't have a serious problem, but I sure felt the result of my screw up.

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

snip...
Everybody lets take a second and think about this and make sure we are taking the proper loading steps, i know i will.

Jimp.
amen !

[cbrick]

Once primed I do one cartridge at a time and it doesn't leave my hand until the boolit is seated.

^^^^^^ Exactly!

Charge a case, put bullet in, seat bullet, put loaded round in MTM box. Every time. Don't care how much longer it may take doing it that way, I'm not in my loading room to set speed records.

Sorry to hear bout your friend but good to hear it wasn't worse.

Rick

[Tatume]

Given a reasonable choice, I probably wouldn't have gone to the emergency room either. Once they hear "gun" they are going to involve the police. While no illegal acts were committed, dealing with the police can be less than desirable. I avoid contact.

[opos]

I do everything one thing at a time...old man here and so far nothing serious..have caught a couple of "Mistakes in the works" before they were a problem...In these days of "multi tasking", texting, cell calling, etc I simply will not have any distractions when I'm loading...no radio, no tv, phone shut off, door is closed and locked so nobody "accidentely stops by", no food or drink and never any medications of any kind...work area clean and never more than one powder out at any one time.. I do one "step" at a time and if I start to get tired or my mind wanders..I put it all away for later.

[LenH]

What Rick said, I intentionally under load the powder in the scale pan and trickle in the remaining into the pan then funnel the powder into the case then seat a bullet.
This is for .308 only, my pistol loads are done with a progressive press, rifle with a single stage.

[kungfustyle]

Thank God he didn't loose an eye. Scary stuff. A great reminder check and double check....

[willie_pete]

Cases upside down until powder, look in case with light, then bullet, then box; same as above. Never double-charged ( I'm screwed now ; knocking head ) in over 30 years of reloading.

WP

[5Shot]

That is one reason I like powders that fill a case...a double charge is VERY evident by the powder spilling out on the bench.

[w5pv]

I do pistol the same and in over 50 years of reloading never a misshap of the explosion type.Had a squib once but caught it before another round was fired.Now I check the charge after I drop it and then again when the loading block has the amount casings that I am loading and then one final time when I go to seat the bullet.This is the reason iuse only a single stage press.Cuts down on the mistakes.

[Prospector Howard]

Another person here that uses single stage presses only and that looks down the case with a flashlight after I throw a charge to make sure it looks right on each and every reloaded round. Those free Harbor Freight flashlights are perfect for this. It was probably the first thing you checked, but did anyone make sure it wasn't a barrel obstruction problem?

[Harry]

Not to hijack this thread. Just had this happen to my XD 40 S&W. Fortunately, only the pistol got hurt. I haven't yet determined if it is the result of out of battery or an over charge of Tite Group. When reloading, I have 2 blocks. When I charge with powder, I move the case to another block on the other side of my single stage loader. 123476

[ukrifleman]

Once primed I do one cartridge at a time and it doesn't leave my hand until the boolit is seated.

+1, I do exactly the same.

If I am using a powder charge for the first time that is less than 50% case capacity, I take a FIRED case and deliberately double charge it, to see where the level of powder comes to.

This enables me to quickly recognise a double charge when loading. I also shake every loaded cartridge and listen to the sound of the powder. In the unlikely event I screw up, I can tell if it has a double charge or no charge at all.

ukrifleman.

[atr]

very sorry to hear about your friend and YES he should see a doctor !

I use a pencil light to check each charged cartridge in the loading block...that way I can tell if I double charged or missed a charge.

[geargnasher]

Glad he's relatively ok, let's hope there's no "foreign object" embedded in his face to cause a bad infection later.

Gear

[dragon813gt]

Glad he's okay but it sounds like he should have gone to the hospital. I've stitched and glued myself back together plenty of times but when blood won't stop it's time to seek medical attention.

I load rifle sort of progressively. This is where the counter on the Chargemaster is a GREAT feature. 50 rounds loaded means 50 charges should have been thrown. If the numbers don't jive it's time to pull the bullets and start over. I'd rather spend hours pulling bullets then hours in the ER.

[RogerDat]

"Multi-Tasking" the fictional idea that the human brain can focus on multiple tasks at the same time. Concept thoroughly debunked by research, the human brain can switch from one task to another rapidly, then back to the first task but the brain is only acting on one of them at a time, the other task is on auto pilot. Auto pilot and loading ammo don't seem a good combination.

Just in case anyone cares, but real time brain scans where subjects are given two (or more) tasks to perform that involve different areas of the brain the scan shows the brain activity switching back and forth between the different areas. Your brain really can't text and drive even holding a conversation and driving leaves the brain switching between tasks but at least leaves your eyes on the road so your brain has some input (sorry pet peeve for me, people driving badly while on the phone). Brain also can't hold a conversation on the phone and focus 100% on the reloading activity.

Some things such as running and catching a ball the running is an automatic activity that does not engage the higher brain functions that are engaged in visually tracking the ball and moving toward it. So still a single task for the brain to focus on, not a multi-task activity.

Glad your friend made it through without worse injuries, and thanks for sharing the reminder to be careful and stay safe.

[seaboltm]

very sorry to hear about your friend and YES he should see a doctor !

I use a pencil light to check each charged cartridge in the loading block...that way I can tell if I double charged or missed a charge.

Dr. probably can't do much for him now. Wounds need to be stitched within a short amount of time else stitching is impossible as the wound behinds to heal and scar within a day or so. Broken bone is a different issue.

[jonp]

Lucky your friend is ok and this is a good example of why you should wear shooting glasses. Looks like Ruger built the rifle right. Explosion directed down into the mag well and out the sides.

Had a slight argument with a know it all at the house yesterday. He stopped by and informed me about casting, loading (insisted you could buy ammo cheaper than reloading it) and was appalled I had a single stage press. I just had to get a dillon and he had two of them. Tried to tell him I wasn't interested, was not in a rush loading ammo, didn't load enough rounds to make it cost effective and besides I liked dubbing around one round at a time as I was not in a hurry. Can't say in 15yrs or so that I've misloaded a round either under or over yet and hope I don't.

Like Willie Pete I put them upside down until powder then turn them over. I usually weigh each charge and if using the lyman 55 every 5th or 6th. I load on the bottom end so even if the lyman throws a 1/2 grain off it will still be well under max. If I decide to load 3/4 of max or up for some reason every charge gets weighed.

[jonp]

Not to hijack this thread. Just had this happen to my XD 40 S&W. Fortunately, only the pistol got hurt. I haven't yet determined if it is the result of out of battery or an over charge of Tite Group. When reloading, I have 2 blocks. When I charge with powder, I move the case to another block on the other side of my single stage loader. 123476

Did you pull the rest of the ammo that you loaded at the same time to check the weights?

[btroj]

Like a few others I dump powder, seat bullet, then set case down. No loading blocks for me.

I know a person who did likewise with A Ruger in 06. The bolt held but a chunk of stock flew past me. Scary as hell. He now weighs all loaded rounds that have less than 2/3 case full of powder to prevent double charges.

Glad to hear the injuries aren't serious.

[koehlerrk]

Scary stuff...

Here's my reload procedures to try and keep this from happening:

1. I try like heck to avoid loads that don't fill the case more than halfway - makes double charges easy to spot.
2. Two loading blocks - as each step is completed, the cases move from one block to the other.
3. If I think I screwed up, I pull down the whole batch and start over. No exceptions!

So far I haven't had a problem... looking to keep it that way.

[waco]

I hate to read stuff like this but it's a good reminder to all of us. I charger all my rifle rounds with an RCBS Charge Master 1500. Empty primed brass in one loading block and once there is powder in it, it goes into another block on the other side of the bench. Maybe not as fool proof as some others methods, but its kept me safe so far...Knock on wood.

[ColColt]

He ought to get on his knees and be thankful he's still got his sight. I've never had an accident like that and hope it never occurs. The only time I recall over charging a case was H4831 in a 270 case. Of course it fell out all over the bench as 60 gr of H4831 is pert nigh a full case already. 2400 in a 308?

[willie_pete]

Jonp,
why in the world would the guy have TWO Dillons if he thought you could buy it cheaper than reloading? You have some strange friends. Or should I say you let strange people drop by your house. :)

WP

[Multigunner]

HARRY

Not to hijack this thread. Just had this happen to my XD 40 S&W. Fortunately, only the pistol got hurt. I haven't yet determined if it is the result of out of battery or an over charge of Tite Group. When reloading, I have 2 blocks. When I charge with powder, I move the case to another block on the other side of my single stage loader

Probably excessive pressure but I suggest you check the box the ammo or cases came in against the ammunition recall lists. I found quite a few warnings on lots of .40 S&W ammunition due to defective cases with some casehead blow outs.

[Multigunner]

Jonp,
why in the world would the guy have TWO Dillons if he thought you could buy it cheaper than reloading? You have some strange friends. Or should I say you let strange people drop by your house.

WP
Only reason I handload these days is because I can make up handloads taylored to my rifles that are more accurate than the available store bought ammunition.
Thats especially true of older milsurp rifles. None of the commercial or milsurp ammo I've used is anywhere near as accurate as my hand loads.

[mozeppa]

exactly why i'm pulling down 13,000 loaded rounds.... they may go ((((((((((((((pow!)))))))))))))

or possibly...
((((((((((((((((((( BOOM ! )))))))))))))))))

[aspangler]

Once primed I do one cartridge at a time and it doesn't leave my hand until the boolit is seated.
A+ to that. My way too.

[country gent]

Rereading the Original post I have several questions on this incedent and the follow up done. Were the remainder of the rounds disassembled? Did powder charges vary or other double charges show up? What was the charge wieght of the original load? Reason Im curious is the proof loads are probably in the 80,000-90,000 cup range. I have seen a couple M14s blown up ( true forged reciever military M14s) on high power rifle lines from over pressure loads. Also one M1A from fatigue in the reciever casting ( wasnt an Springfield but a small entrepenuers product). The shooter had pulled the 150 grn bullets from some surpluss ball ammo and replaced them with 168 grn sierras. It was a very warm load. Alot of things could be a fault or a combination of things. I wish the shooter a speedy recovery and hope theres no lasting problems. One thing He should have had done was X rays for shrapnell embedded. The possibility of broken bones should have been checked also.

[freebullet]

Wow, I'm glad yer friend is still alive. That really sucks. I hope you will be able to share his loading procedure, it might explain why it happened. I hope he makes a full recovery.

[TXGunNut]

Been loading over 30 years and had my first double last year. Can't figure out how I did it but I was the only one there when it happened so it had to have been my carelessnes. All I remember is that I got distracted at some point but caught it, must have done it again. Good news is that it was a double charge of a light 2400 plinking load, case was badly stuck but no permanent damage.
Personally haven't had much use for stitches since I discovered butterfly closures, can even make them one-handed when the situation calls for it.

[smoked turkey]

I agree that seating the boolit or bullet right after loading the case with powder is the best way to avoid a mishap. I will sometimes charge five cases at a time (one row on my loading block). If it is a straight wall case it is relatively easy to verify that the case has not been short charged or double charged by comparing all the powder levels. It is not so easy with bottleneck cases. What I do is verify one of the filled cases and then use a dowel rod and mark it with a pencil mark at the top of the case neck. A quick check with the dowel on the five charged cases lets me know the powder level is ok. Just another way to check things out before seating the boolit.

[MaryB]

I use the dowel trick with a strip of red electrical tape and the dowel spray painted with a coat of black. Easy to see the contrast between brass, black dowel bright red stripe. Also use 2 blocks, fill with powder and move to the other block, check with dowel, do the next. Checking adds 5-10 seconds, time I am glad to lose.

[MaryB]

Lot of nerves in that area so I hope no lasting damage... plus I hope no punctures into the sinus cavity that could leak bacteria into the cut from beneath


Dr. probably can't do much for him now. Wounds need to be stitched within a short amount of time else stitching is impossible as the wound behinds to heal and scar within a day or so. Broken bone is a different issue.

[Lead Fred]

Once again using powders not designed for the firearm can lead to pain.

I have loaded 50 at a time since 1961. When Ive powdered the 50th one, I tap the loads even, then look down the neck of each and every one to make sure they are all at the same level.

[DougGuy]

I use 41.5gr H4895 in my .308 and it comes right up to the case neck. Very hard to dbl charge in this scenario, and very hard to squib or half charge being I weigh every charge one at a time and also visually verify every case is filled to roughly the same spot on the case neck or it gets dumped and set aside and I don't load that case.

I do set them all in a loading block at this point, and I visually look at the charged cases and I settle the powder and dump any of them that are visually lower than the average or higher than the average. Even though each charge is weighed, observing this average position of powder in relation to the case neck/shoulder lets me see cases that are uneven in volume as the level of the powder gives them away rather quickly.

Sorry to hear about your buddy, glad it isn't any worse.

[Loudenboomer]

Sure hate to hear stories like this. Hope for a speed recovery. The only good that can come out of this is maybe the rest of will take another second or two for Safety.

[ipijohn]

I have a plug gage made up for every powder/cartridge combination that I load. They are simple aluminum plugs that are the neck size with a #6 screw in them. The "plug gage" is inserted after the powder drops. If the aluminum plug is even with the top of the brass + - in goes a projectile. The same process is followed wheather I am loading with single stage, turret press, pro 1000, or loadmaster.

[Harry]

Did you pull the rest of the ammo that you loaded at the same time to check the weights?

I will pull the rest today. I expect my puller to come in the mail today. I tried using my impact bullet extractor, but I do not trust that I get all of the powder out due to possible static from the plastic. I purchased a collet type puller.

[jonp]

Jonp,
why in the world would the guy have TWO Dillons if he thought you could buy it cheaper than reloading? You have some strange friends. Or should I say you let strange people drop by your house. :)

WP

Actually his wife is a friend of mine. They were riding by and saw us in the yard so stopped. Of course he was an expert on motorcycles, the housing market, construction, driving a truck and several other things and was not bashful in letting me know it. I'm pretty sure he is not going to be a friend of mine. As to why High Speed Steve needed two Dillon's, well I was afraid to ask and i wonder if you can buy ammo cheaper than reloading it why he bothered with two blue set-ups but I didn't ask. He did list the reasons why it was cheaper to buy and named prices like $35lb powder and $33 sleeves of primers. I kinda wondered on if he could afford two Dillon's and component's priced like that then what was the big deal on spending money reloading but now I understand why reloading was so expensive for him.

[MGnoob]

That is one reason I like powders that fill a case...a double charge is VERY evident by the powder spilling out on the bench.


This +1, I like powders that fill the case. I also have 2 dillions which i use the powder-check die on.
While several people i know prefer powders that don't fill the case, These same people have all blown up guns/barrels.
While they are correct that thier choice of powder may be cleaner, i'd rather clean my gun than remove piece of my firearm from my face.

i'm more concerned about a partial charge causing a projectile to remain in the barrel, or a jammed cartrage leaving the projectile in the barrel while "mortaring" my rifle.
from my experience if a projectile is stuck in the throat or you fire a projectile only propelled by a primer a second cartrage projectile won't chamber.
i've only once every had a projectile stuck further than the throat..this was caused by wet powder...the solution to this was to ensure powder and brass are dry. then after reloading ammo allowing ammo to sit for about a week will cause all of the squibs/hangfires to just become Fail too fires.

[hickfu]

Glad to hear your friend is ok!
Im another that loads 1 at a time and the only reason I have a loading block is to hold the cases after being primed. I dont even have a powder thrower, I do it all manually with the scale and lee powder scoops.... Very slow but so far no oppps for me (I hope to keep it that way)


Doc

[dtknowles]

I reload batch style. Either progressive or single stage. I think you are as likely make a cartridge with a double charge one at a time as you would doing a whole loading block or five but the powder height inspection it the key.


One at a time is best when the inspection is difficult or inconclusive. On a progressive I use powder charges that will make a double charge obvious. I have to admit I have made squibs on the progressive, maybe two. My self defense and hunting ammo are not from the progressive. I said I made two squibs. I have a lot of ammo for practice that was made the same way as the squibs before I understood that the way I cleared primer feed jams could advance the shell without dropping powder

Tim

[jblee10]

I'm still loading on a single stage press after 35 years. Every case has been in a cartridge block, and every powder charge has been visually inspected. Either under sunlight or flashlight. As I've gotten older, the eye glasses have come out for the inspection. I've just never felt right about holding my face next to a reload without that step.
Friends have had turret style reloading presses, and have swore by them. But for me, I still want a good visual inspection on every case. So I would use a turret press in single stage mode anyway.
That being said. I wouldn't mind loading rounds of 95% case capacity on a progressive press. But I would like some way of inspecting for a squib load. Being unfamiliar with progressive presses, I don't know if it would be possible to set up a light and mirror to enable someone to observe the powder charge before seating a bullet.

[willie_pete]

With Dillon and LNL you can. I use one that fits in the center of the tool head hole; works great.

WP

[sw282]

Mister Ruger makes strong guns.. l am reminded of a kaboom l was witness to over 30 yrs ago when my father in law and l were shooting his Ruger SBH. We were at the local clay pit/range shooting when he fired a round that sounded a bit louder than usual. John commented the shot felt different too. Upon firing the next round l saw the ejector housing fly toward the target too. We both agreed it was time to Cease Fire. Looking at the gun l noticed the cyl showed a bit of resistance, but l was able to extract the empty cases and the unfired rounds too. Upon returning home we both decided to pull one of the bullets to see what caused the mishap. Getting the round apart the case looked pretty FULL. Too full for 11.8 gr of Unique. John had said the max was 13..He never loaded max in any of his ammo.. Anyway my RCBS 10-10scale said ''18.1 gr'' !! John had gotten his numbers mixed up..l have no idea what the pressure was for that 44 mag. The bullet was one of Speers' half jackets they no longer produce. John was a bit upset at what had happened.. As an old WWII Marine Vet he could be stubborn at times..Admitting he made a mistake was harder still.. He sent the SBH back to Mister Ruger without comment. Upon its return he traded it for another SBH without ever shooting the repaired one again.. Sadly my hunting and shooting buddy died of a heart shortly after. l still feel the loss after ALL these years.. A couple years later l walked into Waldens and there in the case was Johns Ruger.. All 10 1/2'' of that long barrel looking for a home.. l asked Mike about the gun's history since John had traded it..l was told the guy who bougt had used it hunting and killed a couple deer with it but decided to trade it on a rifle.. John's Ruger went home with me that day.. l wish l could say l still have it, but a divorce and hard times made me sell it.. l still wonder how much pressure that 18.1 grains of Unique was..We will never know..l don't have any desire to duplicate it

[geargnasher]

I made a similar mistake once when setting a beam scale, but caught it when light-checking the powder levels in the loading block. It was a load I was familiar with and the higher-than-expected powder level was easy to notice. Now I double-check my beam scale on a cheap digital one to make sure I'm in the same ballpark. Being tired sometimes, it's nice to be able to cross-reference a digital reading to an analog one to double-check the old brain.

Gear

[Silvercreek Farmer]

Jim, sorry to hear about your friend, hope he heals quickly.

Can someone with quickload run 32 grains of 2400 or so with a 170 gr boolit in a 308 and give an estimate of what kind of pressure was involved?

[Muskyhunter1]

Great thread Folks. Glad your friend is ok. I do the two block procedure one at a time and I confirm my balance scale charges with a digital scale (vica versa).

One more little safety check I do when all is said and done, is I check the complete live round on a digital scale. They may very -+ a grain for so due to brass, lube whatever. If I find a round that is several grains more/less than the others out comes the bullet puller. Just for fun I mixed a different load into my newly loaded rounds and I caught it with the digital scale no prob.

We can never be too safe.

[Harry]

Did you pull the rest of the ammo that you loaded at the same time to check the weights?

Jonp, yes, I pulled the rest of the bullets (not cast). The powder weights varied by up to 0.5 gr which bothers me, as I use the RCBS Chargemaster. I loaded what was to be 4.7 gr of Titegroup, but varied from 4.5 to 5.0. I suspect a 5.0 gr. did the damage. I will be using my Redding balance beam scale to check the Chargemaster.

[Blackwater]

I' ve already told the story of my own blowup at: http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?183755-38-special-blow-up-and-questions-regarding-proper-loadings/page5

It's a VERY humbling thing to realize one actually IS mortal and fallible, but it's rather helpful if we're just humble enough to admit it and then deal with it. I'll tell you ONE thing: It's really made me anal retentive about EVER doing that again! I make it a point to notice what my powder looks like each and EVERY time I pour it into my powder measure. I load in batches, and charge expanded cases while still in the case blocks. I tap the measure's handle three times on both the up and down strokes, and use a colored but transparent drop tube so I can take note of how much powder seems to be dropping into each case. After watching several, you get a really good "feel" for doing that. After charging, I examine the lot with a flashlight to see that powder levels are all the same, and any that appear even a little off get a 2nd chance when I pour the powder back into the measure and recharge it. When that's done, I lay a bullet in the expanded cases, and then seat them one at a time. Sometimes I crimp in a separate stage, but that depends on what caliber and bullet I'm shooting. Many can be seated very effectively with a single stroke, but some can't.

It's also changed my mindset. Whereas once I looked at loading as a bother because I'd rather be out shooting. Not so any more. Now, I load with precision and consistency in mind, and I watch every step. Being human, and finally realizing that rather large and significant fact, will "adjust" a fella's attitude and perspective if he's not too dumb to admit simple inescapable truths. I've always wondered if those S.E.E. instances aren't at least partly due to mistakes like mine. I was tired, sleepy, fatigued and .... well, fallible. You won't catch me loading in that condition again, I assure you, no matter WHAT my WANTS may be. If you're too busy to keep your mind on what you're doing, you're too dang busy to reload .... PERIOD! I hope none of you have to learn that the hard way as I did. Sometimes, being humble really IS a pleasure, or at least winds up keeping us out of trouble ...... and sometimes, can even keep us alive, or oout of the hospital. I hate hospitals!

[JimP.]

talked to my friend that blew up his rifle, his load was 20 grs of 2400, the double load gave him 40 grs....no wonder......he should have caught the double load in his visual check in the case prior to seating the bullet....JimP.

[Tom_in_AZ]

Glad he's ok. We can all stand to be more careful!