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View Full Version : .375, .458, and .51 Caliber Swaging



gitano
02-13-2008, 10:01 PM
Gentlemen,

I've been a member for a while, but haven't really done enough with casting to warrant much input. Drinksgin keeps me taken care of there. However, I have become quite taken with big bore rifles, especially things in 50 caliber and up. I've been bothering Dave Corbin for a couple of years about swaging, and find him a very good resource for general information, but I can't seem to get an anwer that 'sets' quite right with my personal experiences when it comes to his equipment recommendations. I hope no one is offended by that comment, I certainly don't intend to insult.

I am most interested in producing jacketed bullets for the .50 Alaskan (0.510" OD). I have made some of these already using belted magnum cases for jacket material and stuffing 0.458" cast bullets in butt-up as the core. I turn the belt off of a 7mm Rem Mag or .338 Win Mag case leaving a 0.512" diameter and then cut to length. The .458 cores are simply pressed in, and I swage to final OD in a Lee 0.510" bullet sizer. These bullets actually work pretty well, but I'd like to get a more pointed nose on the finished bullet than the base of the 405-grain Oregon Trail cast bullet provides. I'd also like to use something a bit softer than case brass for jacket material, and something softer - like pure lead - for the core. And finally, I'd like to run the jacket farther towar the nose, leaving only a relatively small amount of exposed lead.

Based on my experience with the "magnum jackets", my thoughts are that I should be able to perform the swaging on a Rock Chucker or similar reloading press. Dave Corbin insists that with bullets of this diameter, "It can't be done". Disregarding the fact that I already have, is there some reason that you know of that I cannot? Am I missing something obvious?

Next, I was thinking that I might remove the handle of the press, and fit a hydraulic bottle jack beneath the press's ram. If the standard lever of a Rock Chucker can't provide sufficient power, (that according to Dave Corbin), what's wrong with applying hydraulic power - other than the slowness of raising the ram? (Actually, I'm working on a pneumatic charger for the hydraulic jack, but that's another story.)

All that said, I am also interested in making jacketed bullets in all sorts of diameters from 0.375" up to 0.510. Therefore, I am interested in your opinons regarding the realisitic viability of making my own dies sets I have read the thread that discussed the manufacture and use of the home-made reamers, and intend to do just that. (Great thread by the way.) Any advice before I 'wade right in'?

Thanks in advance for your opinions, suggestions, and assitance.
Paul

Bent Ramrod
02-13-2008, 11:28 PM
Point forming takes a lot more pressure than simply squeezing the sides of a cylinder down a few thousandths. If you are going to set up a hydraulic system, you might as well invest in a regular hydraulic press, like Harbor Freight sells and make your dies and plungers to fit that.

None of the early die makers advertised rifle dies for loading presses larger than .375", if I recall correctly. Half-jacket pistol dies were in larger calibers but again they didn't have to swage the jacket closed over a forming point.

gitano
02-14-2008, 08:37 PM
If you are going to set up a hydraulic system, you might as well invest in a regular hydraulic press, like Harbor Freight sells and make your dies and plungers to fit that. Are you referring to an arbor press, or is there some other system Harbor Freight sells that would be more appropriate for swaging?

Thanks,
Paul

Bent Ramrod
02-14-2008, 10:42 PM
It's also called a shop press in my Enco catalog (can't find the Harbor Freight catalog). It has an H-frame with a hydraulic jack in the center and a crossbar adjustable up and down to fit the stroke of the hydraulic jack.

georgeld
02-15-2008, 02:26 AM
Paul:
Why don't you just get a Lee mold and cast soft slugs to use in that?

Then, after you turn the jackets as desired, anneal 'em in the oven until dead soft.
IF you've got a lathe, why haven't you jumped in already? hehe, me too huh!!

MSC.com sell's drill rod up to 2" dia. IF your lathe will turn threads you've got it made. Just
thread some drill rod, bore it out and test it. Once you're happy with the results. Heat it up to a red color and quench in cold water. Then heat it til it just starts to turn a little yellow. OR as MSC told me: "one hour in oven at 400, then quench in oil or water depending on which d/r you bought. They also make/sell an air tempering tool steel. Guess you heat it then just let it room cool and it's the right temper when done. IF you can't find it at: www.msc.com, try: www.wholesaletools.com, they've got it.

Are you a weldor? Yrs ago I got some solid bar stock: 1"x 2" and welded up a small frame to press out piston pins with a hyd jack. Worked great. Still have it in the iron pile, since you mentioned this, or the others have I may dig it out and keep it handy. Can weld a mount on the bottom bar to hold the jack in place. And even a threaded hole on top for the dies to screw into. But, like you say it'll be slow as hell. Who cares for us retired guys with too much time on our hands and no money to buy?? We'd rather play than spend, right? The real satisfaction comes when good results occur from things we've made ourselve's from scratch. Right??

I bought a 3' stick of All Thread but, don't think the steel is very good to harden. Have made some dies and things but, never tried to temper it yet. May cook a piece and see if it does.

Made a nice set of pin punch's from W-1 drill rod and didn't heat to cherry, just baked at 450 while baking a cake or something and quenched 'em. Came out almost hard enough they're hard to file and won't bell over knocking pins out of NEF actions at least. Does take some patience and a decent hand on the wheel to turn 1/16"dia x inch long pin though. Too much pressure and they'll bend real easy. But, with a sharp cutting tool and taking .0005" cuts it's possible to keep 'em straight and I've got one of those junker harbor fght combo lathe/mills. I wouldn't recommend they be bought unless you want a boat anchor. but, it's a lot better than nothing. I've made some darned intricate small parts with both the mill and lathe. Anyone familiar with a NEF. I made a hard steel extractor a few weeks go that turned out slick and impressively accurate. Just a lot of resetting in the vise and easy cutting. But, hand feed the small cuts go easy. It's the long cuts that are a PITA to make. Especially when taking a lot of material down over a fair length of metal as there's not that much travel.
The original's are cast iron and when thinning them down for special applications they don't have any flex and will break, disabling the gun. That's why I made one of 4140 tool steel a friend sent the steel from his job.

Am sure I could make a die to form any size. It's getting done with other projects and doing it mostly. Mic some pistol brass and see if maybe acp cases could be used. There's ton's of .45 acp cases around.

Since you guys have posted some very helpful info for me. I've mic'd a bunch of various brass. Here's what I measured at the head. IF I used cartridge cases' for jackets I'd turn the rim's off to make a boat tail, whether I'd turn the head down to take off the primer hole or not I can't say. Might try both ways and see what difference it makes.

9mm .388"
.45 ACP .473"
.308/06 etc .475
.223 .372"
5.7FN .312"
.45 Colt .457"
.38spl .380"
.30 carb .353"
.40S/W .427"

That should give you an idea where to start looking.

Good luck, let us know what you've done and the results.

Buckshot
02-15-2008, 03:56 AM
[QUOTE=georgeld;289750]Paul:
I bought a 3' stick of All Thread but, don't think the steel is very good to harden. Have made some dies and things but, never tried to temper it yet. May cook a piece and see if it does.
[QUOTE]

.............Don't know where you got it, but dollars to donuts it's 1018 or similar. You can caseharden, it but not through harden it.

..............Buckshot

gitano
02-15-2008, 04:22 PM
georgeld,

Thanks a bunch! We think alike I can see. I'm headed out to the shot right now, but when I get back I'll comment on what you've offered. I'm trying not to spend more time at the computer than I do at the lathe. They are both very useful tools.

Thanks again to all,
Paul

georgeld
02-16-2008, 04:08 AM
The all thread came from either msc, or wholesaletools. Most likely WT as I've
bought a bunch of things from them.

I do have a foot long piece of W-1 threaded drill rod a friend on another board
made for me. So far I haven't touched that piece yet. Am saving it for something
definate and will heat it up like it should be with the big rose bud.