Found my pocket knife today

[jaysouth]

After a year in the woods covered up with leaves. My brother in law and I went back to the blind area I hunted from last year with a metal detector and a leaf rake. We found it in five minutes flat!

However it is a carbon steel Camillius that is now badly rusted. What is the best thing to clean this up with? I was thinking a long soak in turpentine or kerosene, then polishing with a dremel polishing wheel.

Any better thoughts. I want this back in my pocket. I bought it in 1978 and it takes a razor keen edge.

http://i1223.photobucket.com/albums/dd507/jaysouth100/45%20short%20and%20weak/20141129_205619_zpsed4bee4b.jpg (http://s1223.photobucket.com/user/jaysouth100/media/45%20short%20and%20weak/20141129_205619_zpsed4bee4b.jpg.html)123232

[BrassMagnet]

I think either of those will melt the side panels if you soak it.

How about wiping the blades with scotch pads and kerosene?

[osteodoc08]

Naval jelly removed rust. Not sure how it would affect your steel. I'd also look at some of the home brew electrolysis units you can set up cheap.

Looking at the photos, I'd restore it and make it a moments and get a new blade for the pocket.

[Four-Sixty]

I carry a $25 Case Sodbuster Jr. and I would be heartbroken if I lost it. Congratulations on getting your knife back!

[thekidd76]

Toss it in a bowl of white vinegar for a few days up to a week. I could be wrong, but I don't thing the vinegar will hurt the scales.

[nhrifle]

Evaporust. Won't hurt the non metallic parts and will remove all corrosion from the blades. The bottle will tell you to leave it in for a few hours, but I would let it soak for a few days, repeat as necessary until down to bare metal.

[imashooter2]

Electrolytic rust removal is king.

http://schoepp.hylands.net/electrolyticrust.html

A quick and easy set up I have used several times:

http://home.comcast.net/~imashooter2/pictures/ERR-out.jpg

http://home.comcast.net/~imashooter2/pictures/ERR-in.jpg

Results:

http://home.comcast.net/~imashooter2/pictures/rustydies-600.jpghttp://home.comcast.net/~imashooter2/pictures/cleandies-600.jpg

[Daddyfixit]

what imashooter2 said, works like magic.

[Plate plinker]

Glad you found that knife. I thought I found it stuck in my wife's tire. Looked just like yours minus all the missing parts.

[big bore 99]

Try using some fine wet/dry paper with a little kerosene. Not lengthways, but strop it like a barber does a straight razor.

[Le Loup Solitaire]

Electrolytic rust removal will do a good job as will Evaporust. I have used the latter quite a bit with success. White vinegar will go after rust effectively, but if you leave it for too long it goes after good metal; it is often used in the cleaning of cast iron and "too long in the bath" can ruin a piece. On the knife shown, there is probably rust under the scales and on the pivot pins where you can't see it so a soak in the Evapo rust will get to those internals. A final soak in lubricating oil should complete the job. LLS

[claude]

#1 thekidd76, then wire brush it with the dremel and oil it well.

[oldred]

Electrolytic rust removal won't work so well unless the thing is disassembled because any electrolytic action is mostly canceled between overlapping parts, it could also start to erode the tips of the blades before all the rust is removed as it tends to do on long thin items. Evaporust is the ticket here! Evaporust will remove all the rust without doing ANY damage at all to the un-oxidized steel, you will likely have to remove it often from the bath and work the blades to dislodge trapped rust and to work fresh solution into crevices but in a couple of days 100% of the rust will be gone.


Now for the bad news, it will never again look like it did because all that oxidation you see was once part of the blade steel but is now just "ash" from the iron that was affected. There will be pits in the visible blade surface but the worst part is that it's highly likely that the "sandwiched" areas are rusted even heavier and once this is dissolved away I think you will find the blades are going to be significantly looser than before. Unfortunately there is little that can be done about this without total disassembly, polishing and replacement of the pins. Unless the pits are really deep most could be sanded (lightly) with progressively finer wet/dry paper starting with 240 grit and progressing to about 600-800 or even finer depending on how shiny you want the blades.

Evidently this knife means a lot to you, I can certainly relate to that, so whatever you choose to do BE CAREFUL and choose a method that will remove the rust without doing even more damage, you have already lost some of the steel and if even more is removed during the de-rusting process it is gone forever! Remember it's FAR more than just getting the rust off because the underlying metal is not the same as it was before, that rust is not at all like something that is just stuck to the blades such as dirt and crud but rather it's the remains of what was once part of the blades themselves so how you go about removing it and what you find underneath is extremely important. Some methods such as the electrolytic may be the cat's meow for heavy single items with a large surface area but it can literally destroy long thin items because it continues to remove material even after the rust is gone, it will be eroding the tips of the blades long before all the rust is gone at the hinge pin!

[JSnover]

Back when I was collecting, Camillus knives were easy to find. If this one can't be salvaged you might be able to replace it for short money. Maybe even just in time for Christmas.

[DLCTEX]

Soak it in a citric acid solution. Removves rust and does no damage to metal or the scales.

[oldred]

Citric acid will work but if an acidic method is to be used Phosphoric acid would be a lot better, Phosphoric acid (the same stuff found in soft drinks) is sold in a concentrated form just for this very purpose. The difference between Phosphoric acid and Citric acid is that Phosphoric acid will work MUCH faster but better yet it will leave a Phosphated surface that will be resistant to further rusting whereas the Citric acid will remain corrosive until completely removed, Phosphoric acid is the active ingredient in Navel Jelly. There are much better products than Navel Jelly however, such as Ospho, Jasco, etc and most can be found at any of the big building suppliers (Lowes, Home Depot, etc). These acids are however more aggressive than a chelating agent like Evapo-Rust which will very gently remove the oxidized metal but will do ZERO harm to the base metal! Electrolytic methods and acid based removers are going to also attack the underlying metal and while Phosphoric acid would probably do the least harm of these methods any acid or electrolysis is going to do some damage to the acute edges and tips of the blades. In this case Evapo-Rust is going to be the gentlest method that could be used and the only one that will do zero damage to the underlying surface, while Phosphoric acid, Citric acid and even electrolytic methods are normally perfectly safe in most cases the problem here is the extreme differences between the intensive action that is going to be required at the hinge pins vs the light action that will be needed at the point. Considering the fact that the acute edges (sharpened edge) and the tip will still be exposed to either corrosive or electrolytic erosion much longer than necessary while trying to eliminate the heavier rust in recessed areas it becomes easy to see where even more damage could occur. A chelating solution such as Evapo-Rust is the only method that will remove the rust without affecting the undamaged metal underneath.

[shooter2]

I am often reminded at how many smart and talented people we have here. Please let us know what you do and show the before and after pictures.

[Handloader109]

Evaporust. Won't hurt the non metallic parts and will remove all corrosion from the blades. The bottle will tell you to leave it in for a few hours, but I would let it soak for a few days, repeat as necessary until down to bare metal.
evaporust is the easiest and won't hurt the scales. Electolysis is second choice.

[Multigunner]

Don't bother polishing the blade bright, just clean away crusty rust with liquid wrench and 0000 steel wool then put an edge on it.
If you try polishing it you'll always be disappointed that you can't get all the pits out.
If just cleaned and oiled it will usually leave a surface that resembles rust bluing, sort of greyish.
You don't have to soak the whole knife, just apply the iol to the pins and end of the blade, then wait till it softens the rust before opening and closing so you don't loosen it up too much.

I have about two dozen old knives I've found over the years, including a German eye in excellent condition still with factory edge.
Some were found along the side of the road where they had been left under the hood when someone used them to scrape battery terminals. Others found while mowing yards, others found while reupholstering furniture.
Found a once fine Italian switchblade when I was a youngster, but it was too badly rusted from road salt to restore.

[williamwaco]

I use CLR for stuff like that.

[oldred]

evaporust is the easiest and won't hurt the scales. Electolysis is second choice.

Electrolytic is probably the last choice, it will erode the edges and the point -guaranteed! How much erosion would be hard to say but Electrolytic methods are simply metal plating in reverse and metal is always removed during the process, over relatively flat surfaces this removal is usually insignificant but thin sharp edges and points can be damaged fairly quickly -this would almost certainly happen before the rust is completely removed from the flat side surfaces of the blade. Then there is the problem of the over-lapping blades and the rust trapped between them, the electrolytic process would do little or nothing to remove this rust since the reverse plating process would be pretty much cancelled between these parts. Chemical removal is the obvious choice here and that leaves corrosives such as Citric or Phosphoric acid (Ospho, Jasco, CLR etc) both of which would work to remove all of the rust, even that which is between the parts, while the Chelating agents such as Evapo-Rust will also remove all the rust even that which is trapped. Then there are the solvents such as WD40 and other solvents/oils but these will only dissolve and remove the loose rust, the oxide scale at the surface will remain and wiull become active again if the oil film is lost. Phosphoric acid is my usual "go-to" for dealing with most rust but in this case Evapo-Rust has the most good points to offer, of everything mentioned so far it is the only complete removal method that will not affect the underlying metal. Even Phosphoric acid which is usually benign and harmless to the metal surface can damage the sharp edges and the point of a knife blade, this is likely to be very light erosion even on the edges but just the same even a tiny amount of erosion could be bad news in this case. Leaving the "patina" and using the solvents mentioned would be an option but that is a very different approach vs actually removing the rust.



Another method that has not been mentioned that might be considered is glass bead blasting. This will remove all the rust visible and leave a pleasing satin/grey surface that will tend to hide light pitting, it won't remove the trapped rust between the blades at the pin area but this can be oiled/treated with the solvents such as WD40. Probably Evapo-Rust would be the only practical method of removing the rust between the overlapping blades at the pin without disassembling the knife to expose the areas.

[jaysouth]

It's soaking in CLR right now. I will report back tomorrow. It may well be that Evaporust will be the next option.

http://i1223.photobucket.com/albums/dd507/jaysouth100/45%20short%20and%20weak/20141130_181944_zpsbc24c686.jpg (http://s1223.photobucket.com/user/jaysouth100/media/45%20short%20and%20weak/20141130_181944_zpsbc24c686.jpg.html)

[Petrol & Powder]

I understand your desire to keep that knife but there comes a point when you have to accept reality. You can likely remove the rust but you'll be left with the metal that wasn't converted to FeO. From the pictures I'd say the damage is pretty extensive. Removing rust doesn't put that metal back on, it just removes the rusted metal.
I think you will be happier if you remove the rust, oil it and put it away. That way you'll always have it and you can move on to a new knife.

[Petrol & Powder]

In the FWIW category, My father has the exact same knife and he'll never part with it. He doesn't carry it anymore but he has it.

[Clark]

I have tried the electrolytic rust removal with a Voltage, soda, etc.
I like the Evaporust better.

http://www.sogknives.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/780x320/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/s/o/sog_se-01.png

My pocket knife is an SOG spec elite mini.
If they stopped making them and I lost mine.... I should get spares.

I have modified a full size spec elite for my son. I am all tooled up for for 2-56 and 2-64 threads.

[Multigunner]

Last knife I found is a Shrade+ SG7.
Its in perfect shape. The nylon belt pouch it was in looks likw it was run over by several cars but the knife didn't get a scratch.
Looked it up and MSRP was 59.95 when new.
Its way too big for a pocket knife, I keep it in a pouch on my survival vest. Found the survival vest as well. Even found a life raft on the side of the road, must have blown out of a truck.
When people asked about the life raft in my truck I'd tell it was in case I drove off the bridge.

[bobthenailer]

A+ for Evaporust ! i bought a gallon at Harbor Freight, used the 20% off

[gwpercle]

The long kerosene soak will kill the rust and leave some type of non-rusting patina on it. Dug up a pair of side cutting plairs in yard, years in ground, big clump of rusty dirt. Two months soak in kerosene, they back in shape and I'm still using them.
Kerosene is old school but works. Can find it as " Lamp Oil" for hurricane lamps.
Gary

[oldred]

I will have to respectfully disagree with the statement that kerosene "kills" rust, it does not. Kerosene, while it will loosen the crusty completely oxidized iron, is nothing more than a solvent (and a darn good one too!) that will have no effect on the partially oxidized surface except to smother it with a very light oily film after the more aromatic compounds have evaporated. This is the patina you mention but that patina is only "non-rusting" as long as the kerosene residue is keeping the oxygen from it, remove that and this latent rust will become active again because there is no sort of chemical reaction between kerosene and rust that converts actively oxidizing iron into an inert substance! Some acids will do this, most notably Phosphoric acid, but kerosene is nothing more than a petroleum distillate which is a very good solvent that might also (likely) attack the material in the handles.



No solvent, oil, wax, etc used in penetrating oils or most any other kind of petroleum product is going to do anything other than dissolve (by solvent action not chemical conversion) loose rust and simply smother the remaining partially oxidized surface from contact with oxygen, the remaining rust is not "killed" and will become active again in contact with oxygen. This is why it's much better to treat this remaining surface with a product that will chemically react with the oxides in a way that changes it from active iron oxides into an inert compound.

[Multigunner]

Might as well say removing the oil from a blued gun allows it to rust.
Basically the same situation.
In normal use a knife or other hand tool will be wiped more or less clean and oiled every so often, without bluing or the surface patina spoken of there would be nothing to hold oil on that surface for very long. Oil soaking into the micro fine pitting and residue of oxydized surface seals it from oxygen for a very long time.
Live rust is reddish killed rust is brown or black. Displacing any trapped oxygen prevents further oxidation.
Blood rusting can continue under a layer of grease because oxygen is still trapped in the coagulated blood. The absorbed oxygen is why it coagulates when exposed to air, the surface of clotted blood seals against penetration by grease or most oils and seals a wound from outside air to prevent further contamination and reduce probability of further infection . You have to remove every trace of blood from steel then oil it to prevent further oxidation.
Some claim its just the salt in blood, but salt by itself only draws moisture if its not sealed from the surrounding air. The oxygen trapped in the blood clot doesn't have to come from outside.
While still damp blood dissolves oils and displaces them to leave the metal unprotected.

When a steel object is buried the qualities of the soil determine whether and how much it will rust. WW1 era weapons found buried in blue clay have been found with the steel in near perfect state of preservation, though bronze parts simply dissappeared without a trace.

Bi-metal electrical fields can protect steel objects from corrosion after decades in sea water. Disimilar metals in close proximity in seawater somehow prevent oxidation.

[M-Tecs]

I have tried the electrolytic rust removal with a Voltage, soda, etc.
I like the Evaporust better.

Me too!!! Evaporust is the best I have found.

[oldred]

Might as well say removing the oil from a blued gun allows it to rust.

Actually it will but blue on a gun surface is an inactive layer which is quite different from active oxidation, basically blue is an OXIDIZED inactive surface that seals the bare metal underneath (although quite poorly) while rust is an OXIDIZING surface that is still active. In this case the goal would not be to inactivate the rust, except for the areas where it's impractical for the rust to be eliminated, but rather to eliminate the rust completely. Solvents such as penetrating oils, kerosene, etc simply can not do this because they can only remove the material that is already completely oxidized (the loose rust) and then depending on the mixture they may seal off the active surface from oxygen. From a practical standpoint loose rust can be removed and the remaining rust "converted" to form a tough surface that will be quite rust resistant but on a knife blade it would simply be ugly! To REMOVE the oxidation all the way down to bare steel is going to require a corrosive or chelating action such as one of the acids or a compound like Evapo-Rust since oils, solvents, etc provide no chemical reaction to remove active rust (the red loose rust is already oxidized and thus inactive). Of all the methods mentioned probably Evapo-Rust will do the least damage to the underlying surface.

[Multigunner]

Solvents such as penetrating oils, kerosene, etc simply can not do this because they can only remove the material that is already completely oxidized (the loose rust) and then depending on the mixture they may seal off the active surface from oxygen.
After cleaning a rusted blade with liquid wrench the way I've recommended I've never had one rust up again.

They call it rust bluing because bluing solutions properly applied etch the surface on a microscopic scale more evenly than rusting through neglect, but the process and result is the same. When cleaned of excess surface rust or carded to remove scale the surface will hold oil and if the oil soaks in well it protects the steel for a long time.



From a practical standpoint loose rust can be removed and the remaining rust "converted" to form a tough surface that will be quite rust resistant but on a knife blade it would simply be ugly!
That depends on how the finished product looks to the owner.
Better a few pits that are not noticeable against the background of darkened steel than a blade made too thin to hold up to the work its put to by trying to polish out every pit and have a bright shiny and now compromised blade.
If a blade has a sprinkling of light rust or scratches that require only a few one hundred thousandths of an inch of surface polished away I'll polish it. Even then there may be scattered near invisible pin point pits that only I know are there, and those bug me no end.

I've resurfaced professional quality Butcher's knives and Chef's knives scarred by sharpening steels so they can be cleaned and sterilized without worry that some germ is hidden in a scratch or pit. To do those I use the method similar to the method the Jappanese used to polish a Samurai sword. I have a few large and very hard whet stones of varying grades and flat grind the surfaces by hand. The Japanese used a huge stone the size of a foot locker or larger. I then polish the surface with increasingly finer grades of sand paper down to one thousand grit and a emery flour permeated cloth tightly wrapped around a very flat surfaced wooden block till the blades are mirror bright then strop against a broad leather strap dusted with fine white polishing compound.
I've done a few old rusty pocket knives that way as well, but never got as good a result because the professional Butcher and Chef knives are high grade stainless steel and the marred surfaces were not due to simple rust.
No one I know of bothers polishing common carbon steel butcher knives because its a lost cause. I have cleaned and sterilized a few of those though, mostly blades used in slaughtering and butchering hogs on a farm.
Even the best stainless steel can become corroded by bodily fluids. Over the years a friend has given me several old high grade non disposable surgical instruments that could no longer be sterilized due to the action of acids in the body. Some of these had gold plated handles so they had been made to last. I use these for delicate repair work.

I've done some lens polishing as well so I'm fairly well versed in what it takes to get a pristine surface finish.

Also an old pocket knife with old worn grip and brightly polished blade doesn't really look all that good.

[oldred]

an old pocket knife with old worn grip and brightly polished blade doesn't really look all that good.



No doubt about that and I suppose I got a bit off track, I was talking about rust in general and what would have to be done to remove the rust from a knife blade not just leave it there and deal with it which can often be the best option. I deal with rust on almost a daily basis and have for years restoring antique farm equipment and many small farm related items, hand tools, lamps, etc. It seems every time the subject of rust comes up (not just here but mostly another forum I visit) the usual suggestions are are almost always someone's favorite brands/mixtures of oils and solvents with claims that these will remove or "kill" the rust when in fact there is simply no way that can happen. What we normally refer to as "rust" is actually just the reddish sometimes scaley residue that's left over from the actual rusting process going on underneath and that is not usually very difficult to remove, in order to really stop the active rust completely or actually remove it depending on the desired resulting appearance chemical or abrasive means must be used. Oils/solvents, no matter what the concoction, can do little more than remove the after rust residue (what most people think of when they see rust) and smother the active rust left on the surface, of course sometimes this is all that's wanted or needed. Something like that knife blade would depend on what the owner wants, if he truly wants to remove the rust then my point is that oils, solvents, kerosene, etc will not do that so the choice will have to made as to which surface is going to have the most pleasing appearance. Then there is the issue of not doing even more harm than has already been done and sometimes well meaning suggestions can lead to just that very thing happening!

[jaysouth]

After an overnight in CLR and scrubbing with a scotchbrite pad and a small stainless steel brush. The edge was gone on all three blades, but after a minute on a diamond stone and steel, they are shaving sharp as ever. I have a stainless Buck Stockman, but it seems too hard to sharpen as well as this carbon steel knife. It mirrors 30 years experience with chef knives in a restaurant kitchen. I started off with Carbon steel knives, but had to get something shinier to keep up with the big boys.

Before:
http://i1223.photobucket.com/albums/dd507/jaysouth100/45%20short%20and%20weak/20141129_210443_2_zps40e40494.jpg (http://s1223.photobucket.com/user/jaysouth100/media/45%20short%20and%20weak/20141129_210443_2_zps40e40494.jpg.html)

After:
http://i1223.photobucket.com/albums/dd507/jaysouth100/45%20short%20and%20weak/20141202_131925_5_zps7fbc79e3.jpg (http://s1223.photobucket.com/user/jaysouth100/media/45%20short%20and%20weak/20141202_131925_5_zps7fbc79e3.jpg.html)

[oldred]

You're in luck since the pitting is not all that bad, soaking in the CLR ( mild lactic acid solution) removed all the rust even that surface layer I was talking about. The really nice thing about chemical methods is that in most cases even the hidden rust trapped between the overlapping blades has been removed, or at least greatly reduced and what remains has been rendered inert. CLR is rather benign and most likely the lost edge was more due to corrosion than being attacked by this mild solution, in any case you did well!

[Bullwolf]

I would say that it looks pretty darn good all things considered. It wouldn't bother me a bit to use it in the shape that it's in now. I would just think of the few remaining pits as a form of patina that give the blade a bit of new character, along with a story.

Glad that you got an old friend back into service.


- Bullwolf

[Multigunner]

Looks good lighter grey than I figured ( pretty much a "French Grey" finish like you see on some shotgund) and far fewer pits that I'd thought.

Just cleaned up a rusty old Imperial stockman, one of the cheaper but serviceable models made in Ireland many years ago. Pretty good steel for a cheap folder.

[shooter2]

All things considered I think it looks pretty good. Glad it turned out well.

I went through my bag of pocket knives and found only one of that brand and it is all all steel multi blade marked "U.S. Army".

I had a friend years ago who had a half bath in his workroom. On the inside of the door he had attached at least two hundred Barlow knives. Kept your mind active while you did your business.

Today I pretty much carry only Benchmade folders, or now and then, a Swiss Army knife.

[Multigunner]

I went through my bag of pocket knives and found only one of that brand and it is all all steel multi blade marked "U.S. Army".

Camillus made all sorts of knives and edged tools for the military. I used to have a Camillus Navy hatchet. The blade was so hard I put a razor edge on it. I actually shaved with it once just to see if I could do it.
Unfortunately the blade was too hard, its the only hatchet blade I ever had that broke in use.
IIRC Camillus started out making straight razors. They had plenty of experiance in making blades that held a razor sharp edge.

I also had a USMC all metal knife probably similar to yours. I think it was also a Camillus. Bought that one at a Army Navy store for 5 cents when I was about twelve years old. Sharpewned it once and never had to touch the edge again for at least ten years of everyday use till I lost track of it. A great knife.