bullets for fast draw competition

[beppe]

Hello everyone !! I ask with what boolits are loaded ammo for fast draw?[smilie=s:

[Love Life]

I thought they were wax, but I could be wrong.

[Scharfschuetze]

Pretty sure it's wax, but I've never tried it.

[John J]

I just Googled what you asked and found this.

http://www.fastdraw.org/fd_equip.html

hope it helps

John J

[KCSO]

You need to load wax bullets into special prepared cases. I use marked cases with primer holes opened up to 7/64 the was is a mixture of bees wax and hard wax. I use a Lee tool to prime the cases with a standard L/P prier. At 30 feet they will group low but into an inch or less. They do have some zip and will give you a big welt if you shoot yourself and will kill a rabbit at 30-40 feet. I use these for indoor practice all the time and shoot at least 25 a week to stay in shap usually either left and right hand off hand or left and right quick draw on a 6" bell plate.

[shooter93]

We drilled the flash hole larger but I can't remember the dimension and you use those cases for wax bullets only then. We'd warm a slab of paraffin wax and press the case through it. Worked pretty good and I used them at times to "target shoot" down the hallway at home.

[Blackwater]

There are two types of fast draw: practical, "real world" techniques, and the Cowboy action games. In both types, though, if you DON'T use wax bullets, you're risking knee-capping yourself with real lead bullet loads of ANY persuasion. Some also shoot themselves in the butt. This is known as being "fast on the trigger and slow on the draw." Yes, that's mocking, and deservedly so.

First thing I'd do, if it was me (which of course it ain't), is get a copy of Bill Jordan's book, "No Second Place winner. It'll give you some insights into real world fast draw. This is Bill Jordan the former border patrol man, no the camo guy by the same name. Jordan used to do "dog and pony" shows as he called them, doing fast draw and giving real world gunfighting advice all over the US and some for the NRA and its various functions. He was a veteran of many real world gunfights and his advice is dismissed ONLY at the reader's peril and diminishment.

As to the cowboy games, and they're intriguing and might have at least SOME application in the real world, at least AFTER you get really good at it with wax bullets (don't want to cripple yourself in the learning process), it'd be best to go to some of the matches and seek advice from those who'll provide it, and just observe the rest as closely as you know how, and learn from what you see. Then just try to apply it to the best of your ability, and don't underestimate your potential, no matter how it goes at first.

BTW, one critical point in those wax bullet creations is the drilling out of the flash holes to larger diameter so the primer-only propulsion system allows better thrust to the little light wt. wax bullets. These cases MUST be kept very separate and very clearly marked so you don't accidentally put any big loads in them. The large drilled flash holes let a LOT more pressure through, increasing back thrust and almost surely causing potentially serious problems for the pistol and shooter.

Keep it safe and sane, and it'd be real fun, and always a challenge. Try drawing against your reflection in a full length mirror and see if you can beat your reflection. it's a hoot!

[beppe]

Maybe e you cal loads the Boolits of silicone ,Bat the bullets of wax is raiser to do ......

[35remington]

The real reason the primer flash holes are drilled out is to keep them from backing out of the case and tying up the cylinder. The backed out primers reduce the space between case head and recoil shield and make the cylinder difficult to open on occasion. The other benefits are very secondary to this primary need.

[Calamity Jake]

There are two types of fast draw: practical, "real world" techniques, and the Cowboy action games. In both types, though, if you DON'T use wax bullets, you're risking knee-capping yourself with real lead bullet loads of ANY persuasion. Some also shoot themselves in the butt. This is known as being "fast on the trigger and slow on the draw." Yes, that's mocking, and deservedly so.

First thing I'd do, if it was me (which of course it ain't), is get a copy of Bill Jordan's book, "No Second Place winner. It'll give you some insights into real world fast draw. This is Bill Jordan the former border patrol man, no the camo guy by the same name. Jordan used to do "dog and pony" shows as he called them, doing fast draw and giving real world gunfighting advice all over the US and some for the NRA and its various functions. He was a veteran of many real world gunfights and his advice is dismissed ONLY at the reader's peril and diminishment.

As to the cowboy games, and they're intriguing and might have at least SOME application in the real world, at least AFTER you get really good at it with wax bullets (don't want to cripple yourself in the learning process), it'd be best to go to some of the matches and seek advice from those who'll provide it, and just observe the rest as closely as you know how, and learn from what you see. Then just try to apply it to the best of your ability, and don't underestimate your potential, no matter how it goes at first.

BTW, one critical point in those wax bullet creations is the drilling out of the flash holes to larger diameter so the primer-only propulsion system allows better thrust to the little light wt. wax bullets. These cases MUST be kept very separate and very clearly marked so you don't accidentally put any big loads in them. The large drilled flash holes let a LOT more pressure through, increasing back thrust and almost surely causing potentially serious problems for the pistol and shooter.

Keep it safe and sane, and it'd be real fun, and always a challenge. Try drawing against your reflection in a full length mirror and see if you can beat your reflection. it's a hoot!

I've been doing the cowboy game for over 20 years. FAST DRAW is not allowed. You can't cock the hammer
until the gun is pointed down range at more than 45°

[curator]

Hello everyone !! I ask with what boolits are loaded ammo for fast draw?[smilie=s:

Wax bullets are the only safe way to practice "fast-draw." As the others have advised, the flash holes need to be enlarged to prevent primers from backing out if fired in a revolver. These folks sell ready-made wax bullets that are really easy to load. http://www.gunfighter.com/waxbullets/

One trick to loading cast bullets is to prime the cases ONLY after the bullets are seated in the case. I have found accuracy and velocity is enhanced by pushing the wax slug all the way down into the case. With standard primers, my .38 special wax bullets are going 400 fps, and .45 Colt reach 350 fps.

It is possible to shoot wax in semi-autos too, and these do not require the drilling out of flash holes. Of course, you have to single-load the cartridges (not on MY 1911, thank you!)

[Hickory]

122193
Very best bullets for "fastdraw."

[shootinfox2]

He was referring to cowboy fast draw, not SASS.

[5Shot]

The real reason the primer flash holes are drilled out is to keep them from backing out of the case and tying up the cylinder. The backed out primers reduce the space between case head and recoil shield and make the cylinder difficult to open on occasion. The other benefits are very secondary to this primary need.

How does drilling out the flash hole keep a primer from backing out?

[country gent]

Drilling out the flash hole dosnt allow the pressure build up in the primer pocket like the smaller flash hole does. The primer backs out on powdered loads but pressure reseat it with case set back from pressures. My 38 spl cases for wax bullet loads I drilled the flash holes out to .105 dia and opened the primer pockests to large pistol size. This way if the get mixed in with my reqular 38 spls they show up imediatly. Push the bullet in place before priming or it will airlock and push back out some. Leaving the primer out allieviates this. I also "chamfered heavier than normal to have a better edge for cutting thru the wax cake. Interesting loading to work with and more energy than you think there would be. I made delrin trays with 5/8" deep cut out. the cut out was big enought a bullet tray set over it, I then put 50 cases in the tray a steel plate and pushed 50 rounds thru the wax cake with a small arbhor press. Bullets can be recovered melted back into the trays and reused. A great way to learn draws and instictive shooting.

[Hickory]

How does drilling out the flash hole keep a primer from backing out?

The pressure created by the primer has to go somewhere, if it doesn't go out the primer pocket hole and it can't then the pressure will force the primer to back out.

[huntrick64]

Those wax bullets intrigue me!

[timtheartist]

I've recently started shooting cowboy fast draw. The first 45 colt cases without drilling had unacceptable low velocity. I drilled my cases and the wax now has acceptable velocity. The cowboy association requires cases drilled for shotgun 209 primers at matches as I understand but my local clubs allow me to use drilled cases with pistol primers during practice and informal meets. I bought the correct size end mill but just haven't yet drilled cases for the 209 primer. Both drilled cases and wax bullets are available from the Cowboy association and other dealers. I have a background / schooling in precision spin and vacuum casting but I'm not casting / making any wax bullets. They are sold inexpensively in boxes of 1000. I've found my thumb getrs pretty sore shoving wax into the cases. I set a block of wood under the top of my single stage press and run the case with wax up to the block of wood. Some brands of wax bullets are small enough in diameter that they are easily pressed in by hand.

I highly recommend looking up a local club. It's some of the most fun I've ever had shooting. Nice bunch of folks and at about $5 per day ammo cost it's a little less money than emptying AR15 magazines all day.

I'm not quite ready for the cowboy costume yet but it's required at the big events and it adds to the fun.

[MT Gianni]

When I was a Reserve Deputy Sheriff we qualified with duty loads from a duty holster. Holstered gun 12 rounds in max 10 seconds for a revolver, 14 for a 45 for a close range target, 7 yards or 10 yards. Most were far quicker with a 75% of all shots in an 8 ring B-27 target to qualify. 15, 25 and 50 yards were aimed fire from a barricade, vehicle or free standing always varying it. In 8 years only had one kid practicing put a 38 special through his toe. 38 wad cutter was the standard practice round. You could carry 357, 9mm or 45 acp but only the gun you had qualified with. The key to this is practicing with an empty gun and leaving it alone for at least 2 hours after you are done practicing your draw. That prevents shot mirrors, TV's, walls and persons.

[Mk42gunner]

The wax bullets would have to be awful cheap to beat the price of a pound of Gulf Wax, aka paraffin. As I remember reading in "No Second Place Winner" Bill Jordan used a loading block and a vise to simultaneously seat 50 .38 Special wax loads, priming after the fact.

He also kept wax rounds in a pre-chilled thermos to keep them from melting under the stage lighting.

Robert

[.22-10-45]

I made up wax "balls" for my Colt repo percussion .44. I drilled out nipples as large as I could..( make sure and replace with std. nipples after use to prevent accidents). I made up a 2 piece swage die with 1/2 dia. in each & used straight beeswax. seated flush with rammer balls are pretty accurate across garage.

[timtheartist]

The batch press is a good idea Mk. I will hafta watch the garage sales for a loading block size cheap press

I was screwing around with melting wax for a bit then bout a box of cast wax 45s for $25 / 1000 They have a slightly hollow base on one end and a rounded flat other end. They can be pressed into the cases either direction. Personal preference.

I shoot 100 rounds at most during a meet so it works out to $2.50 each time. better deal for me for now than melting wax.

[Geezer in NH]

Anything that will not cripple you for life when you screw up and shoot yourself in the freaking leg.

The hearing plugs do look lighter and less solid the wax.

[Texantothecore]

I had wondered whether anyone had figured out how to use wax in a percussion pistol. I have a lot of nipples that I didn't like and that would be a perfect use for them.

Thanks for the post.