Hard or Soft Lube for pistol boolits?

[mtgrs737]

I'll bet this has been done to death but my searching has not turned up that much info on the subject. I am looking at going to the hard lubes like Carnuba Red to get past the mess of the soft lubes. My concern is that it may not lube as well as the BAC that I am using in short pistol barrels. So before I jumped in I thought I'd ask what the rest of you folks are using and how it is working for you.

[dubber123]

What caliber/loads?

[bobthenailer]

ive been useing only hard lubes that you need a heater for over 20 years , and at least 5 different brands of hard lube all work fine for me! , i use them for all bullets for any velocity , but i only use lbt commercial for higher pressure loads above 35.000 psi , i dont think i will ever use soft lube again as the hard works fine for me, and lubing goes faster and you can bulk store bullets and acurracy is just as good as the soft lubes in my testing.

[44man]

I have cut my groups in half with soft Felix and carnauba red is as good. It is not real hard and works well. Anything harder just doesn't work as well for me.
It is all in what you expect from a revolver. I shoot heavy loads and most of my shooting is at 100 yd's with the occasional trip to the range to shoot 500 meters. I want groups under 1" at 50 yd's and around 1" at 100.
Yes, soft lube is messy and I get it everywhere. I put up with it for the accuracy advantage. If 2" groups at 20 yd's is your cup of tea, it just doesn't matter what you stick on your boolits.
Remember that when you work for accuracy the lube should be worked just like powder charges.
To use a lube just because it is clean can be a big disadvantage.

[Navahojoe]

I use Lee's Liquid Alox, Mule Snot, mixed with melted Johnson's Paste wax for the .44 Mag and .45 Colt, and .32 Mag. No leading and easy to clean. I tried hard lube several times and when the boolits were recovered out of an old Red Oak stump, the stinking lube was still in the lube groove on the boolit, so, I would rather switch than fight.
regards,
NavahoJoe

[fecmech]

I shoot hard lubes exclusively for the same reasons as bobthenailer. I shoot a lot somewhere in the neighborhood of 10K pistol rounds per year and the soft lubes really are too messy for me. My accuracy is not on the same level as 44 man but my .38 will consistantly stay under 2"@50yds as can the .357 mag, the .44 and .45 go a little over 2" at the same distance. Thats with hard lubes and I have'nt cleaned a barrel on any hangun I own (.45 auto excepted for feed reasons) in the past year or two. Try both and see what you like the best. Nick

[mtgrs737]

I cast for. 32 through .45 cal. and I have always used 50-50 NRA formula lube but I get tired of the mess sometimes and I was wondering if there was something better. I was afraid that the hard lubes wouldn't activate in the short distance of a pistol barrel.

[johnho]

When i started casting a not that long ago I first tried the alox stuff. Had it all over me and the bullets. then the bullets would stick together. then when I shot them I couldn't stand the smell. Tried magma's hard lube with a heater and it worked great.

I get far better accuracy from my 45 and 38 revolver than I can ever shoot. Magma works good and it's cheap.

John

[KYCaster]

WARNING:hijack:WARNING

"when the boolits were recovered out of an old Red Oak stump, the stinking lube was still in the lube groove on the boolit"

I've seen this statement many times, and I gotta ask, why could that possibly be a problem? When you recover a boolit with no lube on it, why would that be better? Where should the lube be?

I've always seen this statement as an argument for "soft" lubes as opposed to "hard" lubes, with no explanation why one is superior to the other. It seems to me wheather lube is left on the boolit is irrelevent to how it performs in the barrel.

Did the loads in question leave any lead in the barrel? Were they accurate? Does your boolit design carry enough lube to do the job? Does your boolit design have to deal with lube fouling? I think these questions are more relavent than how much lube is left on the recovered boolit.

I've patched enough targets with bits of various colored lube stuck on them to know that lube gets slung off the boolit in flight. Is that good or bad? I've seen no evidence to support either opinion. I've also recovered "hard lubed" boolits with empty lube grooves. Does that mean that boolit performed better than another from the same lot that kept its lube?

The statement I quoted seems to imply that all the lube should be left in the barrel in order for it to properly do its job. I really can't see how that is possible.

If someone here could please enlighten me, I'd appreciate it. I'm always willing to learn somethin new.

Jerry

[calsite]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe that boolit lube has two functions, first, to lessen friction of the boolit passing through the barrel (right?) second to leave a film behind in the bore that keeps the fouling left behind softer so that the next boolit will push it out and so on and so forth. I still load extra (soft) lube behind my 45-70 boolits that are hard lubed to ensure this happens, especially shooting Blk. Powder. This is/was called a grease cookie, but I think it applies to modern gun/smokless powder as well. I read threads about guys bragging about the lube star left on the muzzle of their guns, well that's the same lube film that's left in your bore. I agree with fecmech "try both, see which one you like best" and which type promotes the best performance. If your into producing mass ammounts these may not be your top priorites. P.S. I'm really pretty new at this but did stay at a Holiday Inn Express last nite.

[Bass Ackward]

1. It seems to me wheather lube is left on the boolit is irrelevent to how it performs in the barrel.

2. I've patched enough targets with bits of various colored lube stuck on them to know that lube gets slung off the boolit in flight. Is that good or bad?

3. If someone here could please enlighten me, I'd appreciate it.
Jerry


Jerry,

1. I hate lube too. But I judge a lube by how a bullet worked on the target myself. Soft or hard, lead or no lead, I'll clean if I have too. You can always tell a new guy when he says, he wants to shoot lead to polish his barrel. It ain't long before he figures out how its REALLY getting polished. :grin:

2. Uh huh. Admitting to those 44man tricks again I see. Dress them targets up. Back up and or speed up. :grin:

Honestly, I can't remember lube on a fired bullet or target myself. I mean that I recover my own lead from the back stop, and I haven't found any for years. Certainly long enough that I can now pull a Ron Regan. And that includes some Penn bullets that have lube, forget the fingernail test, you can't scratch with a scribe. I just remelted two 5 gallon buckets and zip. Blame it on the chipmonks. See I was picken up surface lead last fall and watched one come right up bold as you please. While I was talking to him real respectful like, he picked up one of Bob's designed, 44 caliber plinkers, shoved it in his mouth, and took off. Pi$$ed me off so bad I wasted two more at the thief in a valiant effort. :grin: My theory is, its the lube. Also that Bob stole the design for that bullet from acorns. Have I ever told you about how I hate lube?

3. It's been so long since the phrase "my .02" was coined that it's now $1.58. Which proves that you've just been ripped off with this post. :grin:

[44man]

KY, some lube is so hard it is brittle. Some can break off the boolit yet leave some still in the groove somewhere around the boolit. This works like an air pocket inside the boolit and throws it off balance.
If ALL of the lube stays on the boolit, it is OK for accuracy. If ALL of it leaves at the muzzle, it is OK for accuracy. You just don't want to lose some of it.
I have recieved boxes of boolits that had half the lube broken out of the grooves and laying in the bottom of the box. I had to remove all of it from the boolits, it just cracked out.

[dubber123]

I switched over to very soft home made lube. I have gotten great results from my pistols, and so-so from the one rifle I have tried it in. Then again, this rifle has been so-so from the start. I used to use LBT soft, (which isn't very soft), in everything, and other than bulk storing better, I prefer the soft lube.

[bishopgrandpa]

I was told many years ago that the main function of a lube was to create a seal. Lead can be its own lube against steel with proper conditions. There are some that shoot without ever using lube. I have seen it. I don't think this question will ever be answered to everyones satisfaction. I like the the no cleaning after aspect. My $1.58.

[9.3X62AL]

I'm not someone who asks a lot of most cast boolits--I seldom exceed 2000 FPS in rifles, and it will take a lot more than lube to get my handguns under 1" @ 50 yards or around 1" at 100. For that reason, Javelina 50/50 Alox works fine for me. Yeah, it's a mess. I minimize the mess by storing boolits in bulk/unlubed, and only what is needed for a given reloading sequence. I gave up on storing lubed boolits a long time go.

[dakotashooter2]

My only experiance with hard lube came with commercial cast bullets and it was not a pleasnt one. You'd have though the bullet lost 1/2 it's weight before it left the bore. Now I can't blame that entirely on the lube as the bullets were probably a bit undersized too but ever since I started casting my own I've used soft lube. I got an exceptional deal on nearly a case of Red Rooster which I soften with toilet seal rings. I do have to admit that It might be a bit too soft though. My next batch will probably be just a bit harder to see what happens.


:castmine:

[Boz330]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe that boolit lube has two functions, first, to lessen friction of the boolit passing through the barrel (right?) second to leave a film behind in the bore that keeps the fouling left behind softer so that the next boolit will push it out and so on and so forth. I still load extra (soft) lube behind my 45-70 boolits that are hard lubed to ensure this happens, especially shooting Blk. Powder. This is/was called a grease cookie, but I think it applies to modern gun/smokless powder as well. I read threads about guys bragging about the lube star left on the muzzle of their guns, well that's the same lube film that's left in your bore. I agree with fecmech "try both, see which one you like best" and which type promotes the best performance. If your into producing mass ammounts these may not be your top priorites. P.S. I'm really pretty new at this but did stay at a Holiday Inn Express last nite.

On a BPCR the lube is to keep the fouling soft, but there is a lot of it. The lube star just shows that the lube is holding up all the way to the end of the barrel. Smokeless doesn't leave that much fouling and if you are putting a lube cookie behind the boolit I think you are just wasting lube and effort.
I have seen boolits in the berms with lube still in the groove and with out. If this makes a big difference in accuracy I don't know but for the games I play (IPSC) it doesn't. We aren't trying to knock the legs off of gnats at 50 yds. To me the hard lube is convenient running hundreds of rounds through a progressive loader. My fingers get gooey enough reloading for my BPCR. The up side is that they are soooooo soft from the lanolin in that lube. Just my $1.58 worth.

Bob

[eka]

I keep my lubrisizer full of Felix Lube (FWFL). I use it in everything I shoot. It works and works well, no need to mess with anything else.

Keith

[lathesmith]

50/50 alox/beeswax has always worked the best over a much wider range of velocities for me than any "hard" lube I have ever tried. Like Al, I bulk-store my bullets and don't lube until just before I load them. This is where the Star sizer really shines--I can lube my slugs quickly and it eliminates the storage headaches of lubed bullets. It also helps hold down the mess problem. With my Lyman sizer I was forever getting lube on the bullet base which then had a tendency to go everywhere. Performance-wise, the hard lube at low velocity causes severe leading in only a few shots in my guns. The 50/50 is far superior at these low velocities, and holds up fairly well to much higher velocities as well. So, due to a combination of performance, logistics, and my personal usage patterns, I have come back and stayed with 50/50.
lathesmith

[robertbank]

+1 for Felix lube. There are, and I have read some very good articles on lubes and how they function floating around. Do a google and you should get most of your questions answered. I do know hard lubes are used by commercial casters primarily so they can ship their bullets loose without all of the lube either falling out or creating a mess like a soft lube may well do.

To answer one question, I do know lube should be consumed as the bullet runs the length of the barrel. Lube on the bullet after it leaves the gun isn't doing much for you. Since swtching to Felix lube, a soft lube, leading in my 1911's has disappeared and the only variable in play is the lube. With hard lubes I got leading in the first 1/2 inch of the barrel all of the time.

Take Care

Bob

[softpoint]

I see lots of good review on hard lubes here. I suppose I'm just"gunshy" I've never used it as have tried to use commercial cast bullets that had hard lube on them and had some of the most awful leading problems you ever seen, and those really hard commercial bullets are REALLY hard to get out of the barrel when they lose about half thier weight in the bore! I have boiled the lube out of those bullets and re lubed them and I have tumble lubed them with some success. I would think that the hard lubes most of the posters here are using is NOT the same lube that was on those "store bought" bullets?

[dubber123]

It's always been my assumption that alot of the "lube" on bulk packed commercial boolits is just basically whatever wax they can get the cheapest with some flashy dye thrown in.

[Navahojoe]

I know for dang sure that if the lube is still on the stinking boolit that is buried in the old Red Oak Stump, it ain't in the barrel of my stinking pistola. In fact, the next time I go to shoot, I am going to shoot some cast boolits in the pistol without any lube, just for the hell of it, maybe I dont need no stinking lube. I will report back to the Committee on this.
regards,
NavahoJoe

[quickshot]

I use lars red on all my loads. That goes from target 45 and 38s to full bore rifle. It performs well and gives me the accuracy that I require. Could I do the same with a softer lube? Probably, however I use what works and lars red works well for me. The no smoke thing is just an added bonus. so I guess I fall under the hard lube catagory.

[robertbank]

$5.00 says you are going to experience leading, another says after 50 rounds your accuracy starts going south. Never found any stinking lube in my barrels using soft lube. It all gets burned up doing it's job.

Take Care

Bob

[rbwillnj]

I cast and load 45s for bullseye shooting. When I started casting, I made up loads with both soft lube and hard. From a Ransom Rest at 50 yards, there was no difference at all (less than 2"). I use Magma's hard lube exclusively and never looked back. As for leading, it depends on the load and the barrel. With my Bullseye wadcutter guns (kart barrels) I get no leading at all. Same load in my Kimber will lead in front of the chamber.

[calsite]

I thought about adding alittle Carnuba to my felix lube as everyone's raving about how good of results their getting with it. That might firm it up alittle

[bobthenailer]

in my guns at least the hard lube works great as stated in my previous post ! , ive been shooting matches for 30 years , bulleyes, sillewete, action pistol, bowling pin , and steel plate and anything else that came down the pike and all i ever shoot in those matches is cast bullets with hard lube , im allways in the highest class, and winning more than my share of matches ,with over 100 trophys, mostley first place and several club records to my credit shot at about 7 different clubs , all with hard lube .

[hydraulic]

Here's another vote for Lars red.

[runfiverun]

hard lube and as soft of a boolit as i can get away with
works for me

runfiverun