Trimming 9mm parabelum brass for Makarov

[sadams]

I have read online and watched the Ammosmith and other You Tube vids on the process of trimming 9mm Parabellum brass to 18mm for Makarov loading. They all say to expand then deprime/resize before trimming. Why is it necessary to carry out the procedure in this order? Why not deprime/resize, then trim, then expand? By trimming after expanding you are just removing the bell necessary for bullet seating. Thanks for any comments.

[mattw]

I think you could leave out the expanding step... what I am not sure about is the internal design of the 2 cases, I would expect the 9x18 case not to have as much web as the 9x19 due to the fact that it is a lower pressure round. I would work loads slowly in the formed 9x18 cases... I have not done that particular process to that round, others may be wiser in that regard.

Matt

[sadams]

Thanks Mattw. I did indeed leave that step out. I sized, trimmed, then expanded, set bullet, and it worked fin. Still, since the vids all say to follow the same odd procedure I thought there must be some good reason for it.

[arjacobson]

I have done quite a few of these. The reason they expand is to get the tapered 9mm case blown out for the straighter mak case.

[sadams]

Yes arjacobson, but why expand before trimming?

[mozeppa]

Yes arjacobson, but why expand before trimming?

probably to achieve the correct size after expansion.

[Elkins45]

If you're using the Lee trimmer it makes the pilot fit a lot easier.

[sadams]

I trimmed some today using the lee trimmer without first expanding, and it worked fine.

[Jal5]

I've done it both ways and found no difference. It's just a tedious chore.

[ipijohn]

Yes arjacobson, but why expand before trimming?

You have to expand before trimming if you use a piloted trimmer. I got away from that method about a year ago. I bought a Lee quick trim die and their 3 surface cutting tool that you can put in a power drill. Simple setup, put the shell in any non indexing loader raise the ram turn on the drill, lower the ram. Perfect length, ID and OD chamfered in 5 seconds. Throw them in the top of the Load Master and load as fast as you can. This process works so well that I also use it to make 300 BO and TOK cases out of 5.56 brass.

[dondiego]

Is the Lee Quick Trim already set up for the drill motor or do you need to modify it somehow?

[ipijohn]

Is the Lee Quick Trim already set up for the drill motor or do you need to modify it somehow?

It comes two ways, hand crank or mount to drill. Go look at FSReloading, that's where I got mine. Think it was about $20 for the tool and $8 for the die.

[Harter66]

All this time I thought the Mak was nominal 361 while the 9mm Lugabelum-Kurtz were 355. As such it would need to be expanded to even hit the sizer die .....something new everyday.

[W.R.Buchanan]

I just got thru doing 500 of these for my CZ82. I tried every method available in my machine shop and the way that came out best for me was a Lee 3 jaw chuck mounted in a Cordless drill, and then using a Lee pilot trimmer with the Wooden Ball on the end. I also turned the pilot of the length gauge down .005 so it would go into the un-sized or un-expanded cases without rubbing on the inside of the case mouth. All I did prior to that was deprime the cases so the Lee Length gauge would go thru.

If you are using the Lee pilot tool you will need to either reduce the diameter of the shank or expand the case mouths so the tool will enter that case mouth and not rub.

I did use a case mouth chamfering tool to remove the burrs on the inside and outside of the case. I would have preferred a tool that did it all in one swipe. I will look at the Lee trim die for future runs.

The cases then went in the tumbler for a day which also tends to knock the burrs off. The loading cycle will only consist of priming, expanding/charging the cases, seating and crimping.

Next time thru, if they can be found after firing at a IDPA shoot, they would have to go thru the sizer first just like any other pistol cartridge.

I consider these rounds to be "One Way Trip" meaning I won't be reloading them a second time. Being able to quickly trim the 9x19's to length is the key to making these rounds pay for themselves.

Casting boolits for them is the other way. The Lee mould works the best I've seen for these pills. They come out right at 100 gr. The CZ 82's have true Polygonal Rifling so leading is not going to be an issue.

I also have a Saeco Mould I got from someone that had been modified by Erik for HP's. It cost $175 for that mould + whatever Erik charged him to do the HP conversion. An 85 gr bevel based HP is about as useless a thing as I can think of. They look real nice, but really don't have any power. The expansion, if it occurs, will be pointless.

I personally think you'd be better off with the Lee Boolit and concentrating on getting good hits in the guys head. The CZ's and the Makarovs are certainly accurate enough and easy enough to hit with. Unless you hit something vital directly I don't see this round stopping anyone who is determined. It can certainly kill someone but I would take penetration over expansion any day with this round. Solids are the way to go IMHO.

Randy

[dondiego]

What is the "Lee 3 jaw chuck" made for originally?

[W.R.Buchanan]

It is part of their case trimming and prepping tooling.

It is a cool little device. goto www.titanreloading.com (http://www.titanreloading.com) for more info.

Randy

[Yodogsandman]

I made 9 X 18 Mak cases from 9mm cases years ago. There was no cases available for reloading then and all the factory stuff was steel cased military. I simply resized and deprimed the 9mm cases, trimmed to length, belled the mouth and seated the boolits. I used RCBS carb dies and their hand crank trimmer with a 9mm pilot. The loaded cases had quite a "waist" above the case web and below the seated boolit. The "waist" would go away after the first firing. I shot unsized 95gr boolits from a Lyman 9mm Mak mold, tumble lubed with a charge of AA#5.

[Duckdog]

All I do is size them and wither use my zip trim or Forester with the right pilot to trim the case. then use the zip trim to champfer.

For the 223 to Tok brass,which someone mentioned, I cut the 223 off in the zip trim with a tube cuter, then size the brass in the TOK die, then trim and inside neck ream the formed brass in my Forester at the same time, then back to the zip trim to champfer and polish.

In both instances, the zip trim is the main item that I seem to use the most. When I first order one, I thought it looked kind of cheezy, but now I can not live without it on the bench!

Once you fire the new brass the first time, your good to go from then on.

[leadman]

I have trimmed many 9 X 19 down to 9 X 18. I size first to deprime, trim to length with a 9 X 18 Lee trimmer with the shank turned down to fit the unexpanded cases. Deburr, expand, load, then fire.

I use a red permanent marker on the base of the case to make it easy to identify my cases on the ground.

[ipijohn]

I have trimmed many 9 X 19 down to 9 X 18. I size first to deprime, trim to length with a 9 X 18 Lee trimmer with the shank turned down to fit the unexpanded cases. Deburr, expand, load, then fire.

I use a red permanent marker on the base of the case to make it easy to identify my cases on the ground.

I used to use blue die makers die, but after a couple of reloading cycles it wore off when I tumbled the cases after firing. I now ESPC shoot a thin coat of Powder Coat on them before processing. So far the PC has gone through 4 or 5 cycles of load, shoot and tumble. Being red they are also a lot easier to find on the ground at out outdoor range.