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mozeppa
11-05-2014, 10:48 AM
my wife wants to drive from indianapolis to muskogee oklahoma.

she wants to take her carry gun with her ( .380 sig p238 )

she has a lifetime permit to carry in indianapolis , and she will be driving thru western indiana, straight thru illinois, thru missouri into oklahoma to highway 69 then south to muskogee.

if she is stopped in illinois does she have to declare to the police that she is carrying?

same for missouri and oklahoma?

i just don't want her to get into trouble .

whats the protocol?

Hickory
11-05-2014, 10:55 AM
I would case it and store it in the trunk unloaded until you are at your finial destination.

FLHTC
11-05-2014, 10:57 AM
Research the firearm laws of every state she will travel through. They might not have reciprocal laws and if they don't, your wife might be committing a felony. In my opinion, it is always best to let a LEO know you're armed if you're stopped. It's common courtesy because they don't know if you are a model citizen or a career criminal.

HATCH
11-05-2014, 11:03 AM
She needs to put it in her trunk when she is driving thru illinois

https://www.usconcealedcarry.com/travel/

I travel to Fla from SC once or twice a year.
It is against the law for me to carry in GA.
So I don't make any stops in GA unless I have too.
My thoughts is that if you are in route and its safe for you to carry at the starting point and the ending point then just carry in the middle.

Forgetful
11-05-2014, 11:45 AM
Don't drive through Illinois. She should be carrying if she can help it.

Indianapolis -> St Louis -> Muskogee = 9.5 hours
Indianapolis -> Nashville -> Muskogee = 12.5 hours

As sad as it is, the extra 3 hours is worth carrying.

HATCH
11-05-2014, 12:04 PM
Ok.. this would be my plan.
Gas up the car when I left home. Do the speed limit maybe 5mph over.
Fill up in St Louis.
Its a straight shot down I-70 and its under 250 miles.
Even my Jeep Wrangler that gets 16 mpg can make that distance in one fillup

gixer454
11-05-2014, 12:20 PM
I use this map to plan my trips accordingly. I would suggest she stop before entering IL, unload and store the gun in a locked case in the trunk while traveling through the state and then resume carrying as soon as she crosses the state line.

http://www.usacarry.com/concealed_carry_permit_reciprocity_maps.html

dtknowles
11-05-2014, 12:23 PM
Don't drive through Illinois. She should be carrying if she can help it.

Indianapolis -> St Louis -> Muskogee = 9.5 hours
Indianapolis -> Nashville -> Muskogee = 12.5 hours

As sad as it is, the extra 3 hours is worth carrying.

I have driven coast to coast 6 times and Maine to Florida and Maine to Louisiana even more times along with other long trips and never carried a weapon and never felt like I wished I did. Often had guns in locked gun cases in the car. In my mind three extra hours on the road is a much greater risk than the risk from not being armed. I find a 12.5 hour drive approaching the limit of a reasonable days drive. I have driven more in a day but had to take a nap along the way, 9.5 hours is a piece of cake. As far as concern about being stopped and searched, I expect that is unlikely but why carry where you do not have a permit?

Tim

Forgetful
11-05-2014, 12:24 PM
I would suggest she stop before entering IL, unload and store the gun in a locked case in the trunk while traveling through the state and then resume carrying as soon as she crosses the state line.

smells like freedom, don't it?

Again, I'd avoid IL because the criminals voted D again, and they're the only ones 'allowed' to carry. I agree not the whole region is the same as places like Gary, but it's not worth the risk traveling through a D state.

mjwcaster
11-05-2014, 12:29 PM
Please check out Handgunlaw.us (http://handgunlaw.us) for the latest information.
Illinois allows keeping a loaded handgun in a vehicle only, for those that have permits from another state (actually those that can carry a loaded firearm in public in their home state).

Also for transporting IL does not require the gun to be in a trunk, or even separated from ammo, just that the gun is unloaded and in a container (and does not spell out what a container is)

Go to the above link, print out the info for all the states she will be traveling through and do your own research, there is so much mis information available on the web, especially as laws change all the time.

Now the issue is that the mis information is not limited to the web, it will be with Law Enforcement also, we are having that issue with our new CCW law here (although not as much as I expected).

Even the IL state police cannot get it right, last I saw they stated a non resident needed a permit from their home state to keep a loaded handgun in their vehicle, although the law states only that they need to be able to carry a loaded handgun in public in their home state.
So a person from a state with non-permitted open carry of handguns can keep a loaded handgun in their vehicle according to the law, but not the state police (again as of last I saw, they may have changed their stance by now).

Duty to inform is only upon request of an officer (they have to ask) in IL, but we just had a story of a traffic stop where the officer told the driver that he needed to tell the officer right away he had a permit (driver was not even carrying at the time). The officer was nice about it, but still mis-informed.

Matt

WallyM3
11-05-2014, 12:30 PM
Remember what happened to the last woman who informed the officer she was carrying?

tomme boy
11-05-2014, 12:40 PM
Yep, as long as you don't get out of the car in ILL. you can have it loaded if you have a permit. Do it all the time. I live right on the border and go there all the time.

MtGun44
11-05-2014, 12:57 PM
It is currently legal to have you carry gun on your person while INSIDE your car in Illinois
if you have an out of state CCW. You are also legal to unload the gun in the car and carry
it immediately to the trunk and put it in a locked case when you need to go to the restroom
or similar. I believe that in the glove box or other places loaded seems to be still illegal,
not 100% clear on this detail and you are definitely not legal loaded outside the car. This just
changed with their new CCW law, some of the advice given is outdated. They specifically
permit you to be moving from the passenger area to the trunk with the unloaded gun to
make sure nobody is nailed while trying to put a gun away.

The other states likely honor the CCW permit, but you need to look up each state. Most reliable
source is either the State Attny General's web site or State Police/State Patrol web site, but
there are several easy to use sites that I have checked and never found to be wrong, for example:

http://www.usacarry.com/concealed_carry_permit_reciprocity_maps.html

I know for certain that Missouri recognizes all other state's CCW licenses, as does
Kansas, but review the other states. Neither MO or KS requires you to inform the
officer, but MUST show permit and respond accurately if asked by the officer. Both
hands on the wheel at the top at all times until the officer specifically tells you
what is OK. Ask if you can reach for your wallet or purse for ID, and wait for
clear instructions before the hands move an inch. I was an passenger in a stop
like this, and things went smoothly.

Verify the Illinois with Bad Water Bill, but I am 99.999% certain you are good in
Illinois while inside the car with a valid home state CCW license, researched it for
my own purposes as I travel thru southern Ill sometimes.

Please remind your wife that she needs to be in condition yellow at all times when
traveling and armed. IMO, she is most likely to be in need of personal security when
on the road in strange places, so being armed - especially an unaccompanied female -
is a very good move.

Bill

mjwcaster
11-05-2014, 01:17 PM
Remember what happened to the last woman who informed the officer she was carrying?
Well as much as I sympathize with her, and despise NJ gun laws, she did inform the officer she was committing a crime in that state (if we are talking about that unfortunate mother arrested in NJ).

Informing you are carrying legally should be a different ball game.

Had she read up on Handgunlaw.us (or elsewhere) and been informed of the law, things could have been different.
I may not like NJ law, but I will try to follow it.
That is why when I was working there for months at a time, I never even thought of bringing my guns up there.
If I had had time to shoot, it would have been rental guns at a range.

Matt

NavyVet1959
11-05-2014, 01:30 PM
Ok.. this would be my plan.
Gas up the car when I left home. Do the speed limit maybe 5mph over.
Fill up in St Louis.
Its a straight shot down I-70 and its under 250 miles.
Even my Jeep Wrangler that gets 16 mpg can make that distance in one fillup

For a woman, the limiting factor is not her car's fuel range, but rather her bladder capacity range.

For the most part, I have found these days that as long as you don't do anything to draw attention to yourself, you don't need to worry about being harassed by the cops. Of course, this also means that you should not act nervous as if you have something to hide if you are pulled over. I suspect that there have been a few places that I have driven through over the years that did not recognize the CHL that I had at that time. Of course, if I was going some place like NYC, I would carry something considerably more concealed than I would if going to Florida.

FLHTC
11-05-2014, 01:33 PM
Remember what happened to the last woman who informed the officer she was carrying?

No what?

mjwcaster
11-05-2014, 01:35 PM
It is currently legal to have you carry gun on your person while INSIDE your car in Illinois
if you have an out of state CCW. You are also legal to unload the gun in the car and carry
it immediately to the trunk and put it in a locked case when you need to go to the restroom
or similar. I believe that in the glove box or other places loaded seems to be still illegal,
not 100% clear on this detail and you are definitely not legal loaded outside the car. This just
changed with their new CCW law, some of the advice given is outdated. They specifically
permit you to be moving from the passenger area to the trunk with the unloaded gun to
make sure nobody is nailed while trying to put a gun away.

Bill

The only exemption for out of staters is carrying a loaded gun in the car.

They do not qualify for the taking an unloaded gun outside of a vehicle exemption, that is reserved for FCCA (IL Firearms Concealed Carry Act) holders, just like every other portion of the law.
All out of staters get is that one exemption, loaded handgun in the vehicle, if they can carry a loaded handgun in public in their own state.

The vehicle to trunk is a silly exemption any way, an artifact from the original NRA/Phelps bill that would have allowed moving a loaded handgun into the trunk for storage. When our 'honorable' speaker of the house, Mike Madigan got a hold of the bill, it was changed to 'unloaded handgun'.
So you have to unload the handgun in the vehicle, reholster, move to the trunk and then place in the truck.
If you are going to unload it in the car, you might as well just put it in a case/container (remember container is not defined in our law, just about anything goes) and then take it to the trunk, no silly exemption needed.

And actually it is worded 'firearm' where firearm for the purpose of the FCCA is defined as a handgun.

It really is a confusing mess.

Glove box and Console are specifically called out in the law as acceptable containers, for transporting handgun.

The pertinent sections of the law are included in the handgunlaw.us Illinois page, including out of state loaded handguns in a vehicle and containers.

The handgunlaw.us handout is actually what I use in class to teach from, a nice concise guide to IL law (as concise as can be for such a bloated piece of legislation).
While I may get a few things wrong on the law (hopefully not), I am an IL CCW Instructor and have spent way too much of my life trying to follow all of this.

If you wish for more information/opinions please check out-
http://illinoiscarry.com/forum/

Matt

shoot-n-lead
11-05-2014, 01:52 PM
If she has a job or retired from a job covered under LEOSA...she may have the right to carry. LEOSA gives broad rights to carry in many areas in any state that even CCW licensed residents cannot carry in their own state.

Avery Arms
11-05-2014, 03:24 PM
... In my opinion, it is always best to let a LEO know you're armed if you're stopped. It's common courtesy because they don't know if you are a model citizen or a career criminal.

Far too many people think that way and many end up in prison simply because they opened their mouth and tried to prove to some random LEO that they are a model citizen who files a W-2 on their babysitter and never drank in high school. Tell them what you are legally required to and not one word more, even if you think you know every last state law and can't be touched your perfect knowledge of state laws won't protect you from obscure federal/local laws or ignorant/abusive deputies.

Anyway 99.9% of the danger is from traffic accidents so choose the shortest/safest route and drive safely without excessive fatigue or distractions.

WallyM3
11-05-2014, 03:44 PM
That was my point. ↑

slim1836
11-05-2014, 04:00 PM
I plan on going from Texas thru Arkansas, Tennessee, and into Kentucky over the Christmas holidays and do not have a permit of any kind.
I guess I am behind the times, but, can I not keep a loaded weapon in my vehicle (castle doctrine) while driving to my destination for self defense?

Slim

mjwcaster
11-05-2014, 04:40 PM
I plan on going from Texas thru Arkansas, Tennessee, and into Kentucky over the Christmas holidays and do not have a permit of any kind.
I guess I am behind the times, but, can I not keep a loaded weapon in my vehicle (castle doctrine) while driving to my destination for self defense?

Slim

Different states have different rules.
Check out the states you want to drive through to see what they allow, some do allow for keeping a loaded handgun in the vehicle, but certainly not all.
If you are a Texas resident without a CCL license you would NOT be able to legally keep a loaded handgun in your vehicle in Illinois.

Also check for local ordinances, IIRC Missouri just changed their premption laws concerning open carry, before you could open carry without a permit, but were subject to local laws against it.

Also IIRC Wisconsin just changed their laws concerning non-permit open carry, before it was only open carry outside of a vehicle, now I think they allow inside a vehicle also.

To show how confusing it can be, before the wisconsin change a wisconsin resident could open carry a handgun while walking around, they would have to unload before entering their vehicle, they could then drive into illinois and load a handgun to keep in the vehicle, but could not leave the vehicle with it. They would have to unload it before reentering Wisconsin.
And that would be subject to IL law enforcement knowing the actual law, and not listening to the State Police who said that a CCW permit is required to keep a loaded handgun in the car.

And then you have the illegal laws, Wisconsin has open carry, but Madison City Police kept arresting people for open carrying, even after the States Attorney General told them it was legal to open carry and to stop arresting people for it.
And around that time the Madison County Sheriff was telling people to get their CCL permit and a gun to protect themselves.
Location changes this a lot.

Please do not assume that what may be legal in your state is legal in others, as was posted earlier it has already cost a young mother jail time in New Jersey.

And don't even get me started on Indiana changing their handgun laws a few years back, eliminating any way to transport a handgun (even unloaded) without a CCL license. What had been legal for years suddenly became illegal until fixed in 2011.
I found out about this when I went to shoot my new 45 at the IN public range. Took them several years to fix it and I read about arrests of people for this, even IN residents.

Now having said all this, you have the best chance of vehicle carry being legal due to you geography, it would be a definite no-no on the east coast.

But you have to do your research, laws can change from county to county or even by entering the city limits.

Matt

Avery Arms
11-05-2014, 05:09 PM
Slim that is a complicated question and has nothing at all to do with castle doctrine.

Anyway if you don't have a permit then you can't legally travel anywhere in the US with a loaded firearm because no matter where you go you will find yourself within 1,000 feet of a school and thus violating the federal GFSZ act.

I find it all rather ironic because millions of gun owners break this law (a felony) and others every day and without fail 99 out of 100 will tell you that felons are scum who should never own firearms.

billyb
11-05-2014, 05:29 PM
Okla. CCW law states you are required to notify any officer that contacts you in the line of duty to notify the officer at the first opportunity that you are armed. Go to OSBI and check if Okla. honors your states law. Bill

NavyVet1959
11-05-2014, 05:35 PM
I plan on going from Texas thru Arkansas, Tennessee, and into Kentucky over the Christmas holidays and do not have a permit of any kind.
I guess I am behind the times, but, can I not keep a loaded weapon in my vehicle (castle doctrine) while driving to my destination for self defense?


Up until recently, Texas didn't even let you carry a handgun in your car except for very restrictive circumstances. Sure, we had the "traveling defense", but that still meant that you could get arrested and would have to *prove you innosence* in court. Different judges interpreted it different ways. For some, they required an overnight stay. For others, they required you to pass through 3 counties. It was a ridiculous system and it was open for abuse (and was abused by the law enforcement and judicial community quite often). Now, having said that, many people still carried a handgun in their car regardless of the legality of it. They figured that they might be able to argue a "traveling defense". The problem with that train of thought is that in order to get to the point of trying to argue the "traveling defense", it means that you have already been arrested and the judicial system is well on its way to making your life miserable and making their fellow shysters richer defending you. The game is definitely rigged in their favor.

Louisiana, on the other hand, always considered your car an extension of your home and as such, you could carry a loaded handgun in your car. Louisiana also had no provision against open carry, but I don't remember many people doing it back when I lived there. These days, you can carry a loaded handgun in your car in Texas, but it *must be concealed*. Many years ago, I remember states that required any weapons to be in plain sight, so the recommendation at that time was to put your handgun on your dash if you were stopped. I am not aware of any states that recommend that at this time though.

WallyM3
11-05-2014, 05:46 PM
"I find it all rather ironic because millions of gun owners break this law (a felony) and others every day and without fail 99 out of 100 will tell you that felons are scum who should never own firearms."

I think you need to be convicted first.

mjwcaster
11-05-2014, 05:52 PM
Avery Arms that is a very good point that is often overlooked.

Just a bit of history, the original Gun Free School Zone act was found unconstitutional in 1995.
How was it fixed?
By adding- "has moved in or otherwise affects interstate commerce." regarding firearms.

And now you know the rest of the story.

FLHTC
11-05-2014, 06:16 PM
"I find it all rather ironic because millions of gun owners break this law (a felony) and others every day and without fail 99 out of 100 will tell you that felons are scum who should never own firearms."

I think you need to be convicted first.

Helluva thing to gamble with. I'd hate to be rear ended at a traffic light and be carrying an illegal handgun.

slim1836
11-05-2014, 06:18 PM
I know I am ignorant of many things and this is yet another one. I, for years, have carried when on a trip, especially when it's out of state. I always carried loaded as unloaded does no good. This really sucks and I will probably get my concealed handgun license next year.

So much for the second amendment.

Slim

flyingmonkey35
11-05-2014, 09:20 PM
I'll say it.

Ccw should be like a drivers license good in all 50 states + territories.

Issued by the state you live in.

No more of this bull hockey.

Have a standardized test the States should follow. + firearm test.

Gasp just like a drivers license. You have to prove competence y with a car/ motorcycle.


Then I can go anywhere in the U.S.A armed or unarmed as I dam well please.

And yes you can still own a gun and not have to have a ccw for it.

Just like I can buy a car just not be able to drive it off my property with out a license.

Anyone else for this.

We need to get it on the next ballot.

WallyM3
11-05-2014, 09:42 PM
We don't have licenses to carry here in VT. We just carry and it's protected by State Constitution.

As a consequence, we can't carry anywhere else, because there's no license with which to reciprocate.

But license the person, not the gun.

NavyVet1959
11-05-2014, 09:58 PM
I'll say it.

Ccw should be like a drivers license good in all 50 states + territories.

Issued by the state you live in.

No more of this bull hockey.

Have a standardized test the States should follow. + firearm test.

Gasp just like a drivers license. You have to prove competence y with a car/ motorcycle.


Then I can go anywhere in the U.S.A armed or unarmed as I dam well please.

And yes you can still own a gun and not have to have a ccw for it.

Just like I can buy a car just not be able to drive it off my property with out a license.

Anyone else for this.

We need to get it on the next ballot.

You should not need a license or the government's approval to exercise a constitutionally guaranteed RIGHT.

Recaster
11-05-2014, 10:18 PM
A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right or the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed. Hmmm...

WallyM3
11-05-2014, 10:33 PM
You should not need a license or the government's approval to exercise a constitutionally guaranteed RIGHT.

Well...there is that. Vermont agrees. That might change next year.

tazman
11-05-2014, 11:59 PM
Aren't you aware that the government knows what is best for you? :veryconfu
I am from the government and I am here to help you.

Here in Illinois we just changed our governor from Democrat to Republican. I am hoping for things to get a bit better but I know it won't happen quickly.

flyingmonkey35
11-06-2014, 12:07 AM
Just for fun.

Let's take a look at he right to a well armed militia.

If its not a state or fed controlled military. / militia your group is now automatic ly a suspected and put on a watch list.

You will most likely be banned from joining the real military or a state / fed job.

So ya you have the right.


As for a ccw I live in utah easy to get one. Can carry open if I wish if I didn't have one.

Let's make the argument this way then.

Look at gun rights the same way gay marriage is bieng looked at.

Can I sue a state for refusing to acknowledge my right to carry a gun!

If two guys or gals can get marries in flippiying UTAH. Why can't we sue the **** out of every state.

I was born this way I loooove my guns.

I want to marry it and never be apart from it.

You can't tell me that I'm wrong.

Food for thought.

Avery Arms
11-06-2014, 01:43 AM
You should not need a license or the government's approval to exercise a constitutionally guaranteed RIGHT.

This.

The right to keep and bear arms is one Americans are born with and your local bureaucrats have no authority make up special conditions or sell you a license for doing so.

As for being licensed to drive a car you are using the car on shared public roads, if you are using the gun on shared public roads then yes you probably should get a license.

bedbugbilly
11-06-2014, 09:53 AM
One thing to remember . . . regardless of what the law is in any state . . . not every LEO is well versed on just "what" the law is (this is not a criticism of any LEO and the remark was made to me by a Sheriff's Dept. Captain).

Regardless of what your wife ends up dong . . . above anything else . . . she needs to be alert to her surroundings if she makes a stop . . whether it be a gas station or a rest stop. I preach this to my wife all the time. Even in a crowded parking lot where there are people, watch where you park and what you park next to . . and check you back seat upon approaching the car/vehicle. I am amazed when I sit in the car waiting for my wife in a parking lot, how many woman come back to their cars and fumble around for five minutes in their purse trying to find their keys and the oblivious to what is going on around them. Armed or not . . . just be "aware" and "safe" . . . not paranoid but just common sense.

MtGun44
11-06-2014, 12:44 PM
As I said before, and the poster above repeats.

Stay in condition yellow whenever travelling armed.

As to the Second Amendment - you all are preaching to the choir. We have many able, hardworking
and extremely smart attorneys slowly pushing back the nasty encroachments on the 2nd
that have occurred since 1966. We ARE winning - in 1980 you could not legally carry a gun in
the majority of the country. Now with a KS and Utah permit in my pocket, I am legal in all but
perhaps 6 states to carry. That is REAL and measurable progress. Is it enough? No, of course
not, but we ARE moving the law in the right direction in most of the country pretty steadily.
20 years ago, nobody in KS could own a machine gun or suppressor. Now they are legal and
many own them, although the paperwork is a PITA. Small steps, in the right direction.

Of course, for the poor folks in California and NYC and lots of the NE like New Jersey, my
sympathies, you are surrounded by anti-gun idiots. We do see that a major win in the Supreme
Court was turned into REAL changes in Illinois and in Washington DC were guns had been
banned and there was no possibility of legal CCW. Now you can own a gun in DC and
carry it in Illinois. Small steps, but in the right direction. Keep supporting the
Second Amendment Foundation and the NRA, they are making a real difference and
by picking their legal battles very carefully so they can WIN them, we step ahead.
Poorly chosen cases might be lost and become a negative precedent a very bad thing.

Bill

tygar
11-06-2014, 01:46 PM
This may sound weird, but I won't go to, travel thru, or spend a cent in any state I can't carry my gun - period.

I plan a route that takes me around any of the "peoples republics".

I understand the guy that said, "don't tell" unless asked, but when I was a cop I appreciated when I was told, but then, I'm not afraid of people with guns.

rmatchell
11-06-2014, 02:15 PM
I would check the Illinois state police site. They have been changng the laws as of this summer. Iwas told by the state police while I was in Lincoln Illinois for work that as long as I had a permit for my state and I didnt leave the vehicle that I wasnt breaking the law. Now they said that I would have to secure it while I wasnt in the vehicle and that once outside of the vehicle with a firearm I would be charged.

But as always double check, the laws are being changed but who knows if every officer is current on the changes.

Kent Fowler
11-06-2014, 04:22 PM
Don't drive through Illinois. She should be carrying if she can help it.

Indianapolis -> St Louis -> Muskogee = 9.5 hours
Indianapolis -> Nashville -> Muskogee = 12.5 hours

As sad as it is, the extra 3 hours is worth carrying.

Indianapolis > Nashville > Muskogee you get to see some pretty country and avoid the problem. What's a couple hours? The last time I went through Illinois was on my way to Indiana. Crossed over the river and the first thing I saw was a sign saying " Migrant Worker Help Center 6 miles". It wasn't until about 8 miles down the road that Illinois finally had a sign welcoming the taxpayers. Never again.

Kent Fowler
11-06-2014, 04:33 PM
[QUOTE=NavyVet1959;2995330]Up until recently, Texas didn't even let you carry a handgun in your car except for very restrictive circumstances. Sure, we had the "traveling defense", but that still meant that you could get arrested and would have to *prove you innosence* in court. Different judges interpreted it different ways. For some, they required an overnight stay. For others, they required you to pass through 3 counties. It was a ridiculous system and it was open for abuse (and was abused by the law enforcement and judicial community quite often). Now, having said that, many people still carried a handgun in their car regardless of the legality of it. They figured that they might be able to argue a "traveling defense". The problem with that train of thought is that in order to get to the point of trying to argue the "traveling defense", it means that you have already been arrested and the judicial system is well on its way to making your life miserable and making their fellow shysters richer defending you. The game is definitely rigged in their favor.(Quote)

It certainly used to be rigged under Vernon's Code as it left too much to interpretation by the cop that stopped you. But, thankfully, that all changed after the Killeen shootings and with our dear Gov. Ann Richards running her mouth to the papers saying "Texans are too stupid to have concealed carry". That's what cost her the next election. The new legislation even put a muzzle on the mad dog cops in Austin. They and their upper hierarchy were the worst in the state.

mjwcaster
11-06-2014, 08:40 PM
...
Now with a KS and Utah permit in my pocket, I am legal in all but
perhaps 6 states to carry.

Bill

Not to be picky, but pointing out your are only good in 39 or 40 states, missing 10 or 11 states (11 if the Utah is a non resident permit).
And that is about the best that anyone can do right now.

This is one thing lots of people miss, there are still about 10 states that you are not going to be able to carry in, unless you are a resident and get a magic permit (some of those states barely issue permits).

KS resident permit is missing- OR, CA, IL, NY, ME, NH, MA, CT RI, NJ, DE, MD, DC, 12 states and our capitol.
Utah non resident get you the above with DE. Down to 11 missing states.
Utah resident permit would also add NH. Down to 10 missing states, but if you have a KS permit, you are probably not a Utah resident (KS only issues non-resident permits to active duty military stationed in KS).

That is another issue to look out for when checking which states you permits are valid in, the issue of residency.

Some states honor another states permit, but only for a resident of the state the permit is issued in.

In IL I have run into to many people who got their Florida permit and were planing on carrying in Michigan.
Michigan only recognizes resident permits, not non-resident. So a Florida permit is good in Michigan for a Florida resident, but not for an Illinois resident.

I've actually gotten into arguments trying to keep people from breaking the law, because they did not read the fine print. They just saw that the FL permit was good in Michigan, didn't read the part about residency.

Now as soon as they get an IL permit in their pocket they are good to go in MI, since Michigan recognizes permits from all 50 states, for residents only.

Have I mentioned that this is a huge mess, and the sad thing is that it is much better than it was just 5 years ago.

Matt

mjwcaster
11-06-2014, 09:23 PM
I would check the Illinois state police site. They have been changng the laws as of this summer. ...

To be specific, there have been no changes to the statue this year, only some interpretations offered by the state police regarding CCL training requirements.
The law was passed Summer of 2013 and has remained static (and we need a lot of improvements).

Here is another issue, the IL state police website is out of date.
Do a Google search for 'Illinois how to transport firearms'
First response, on the ISP website-
http://Illinois how to transport firearms
If you look at that PDF, it is from when George Ryan was Governor. We just elected our 3rd Governor since he was arrested and George is out of jail now, but the information is from back when he was Governor.
This PDF is still linked to from the ISP firearms FAQ also.
The state police website is not the best source of information on current law.
And that brings up the issue of LEO knowledge of the law, when even the state police are still giving out incorrect information.

Our Criminal code and Wildlife code used to have different definitions of a 'case', with the wildlife code specifying a case designed for firearms and the Criminal code allowing a container (remember container is not defined).
So for a while we had a situation where you could have the firearm in your glovebox, console, backpack or other container and be legal for the Criminal code, but not the Wildlife code.

So 2 years ago-

Get stopped by Local law enforcement-
'Do you have any firearms?'
'Yes, it is unloaded and in my backpack.'
'Ok, have a nice day'

Get stopped by a conservation officer 10 minutes later, especially on DNR property-
'Do you have any firearms?'
'Yes, it is unloaded and in my backpack.'
'Please step out of the vehicle, your under arrest.'

Same method of transporting, 2 different outcomes, depending on who you got stopped by.

The wildlife code was amended to mirror the Criminal code as of January 2013.
In Fall of 2013 I helped out a Hunters Ed class and the Conservation Officer that stopped by to teach their portion of the class was still telling the students that they would be arrested if they did not have the firearm in a proper case.
I didn't mention it that day, but called Springfield (state capitol) on Monday to talk with the head of the program about this misinformation.
It has since been cleared up, and the change is called out specifically in the latest hunting regs.

Funny fact- Governor Quinns Veto was overriden on Jul 9, 2013, giving us our concealed carry law.
In it was the Non-resident vehicle carry exemption that we have discussed.

So as of that day, qualified non-residents could legally drive around with a loaded handgun in their vehicle.

IL residents attempting to do the same thing would be breaking the law (except for a few counties who's officials decided to follow the constitution, topic for another conversation)

It wasn't until the first permits were issued in early March of 2014 (I got one of the first, I think I was app# 68) that IL residents could have a loaded handgun in their vehicle.

So for almost 9 months non-residents had more rights in our great state than residents.



Matt

MtGun44
11-06-2014, 11:01 PM
Ok, I'm only good in 39 or 40 states ---- the only state that I go to that I am
not legal in is when I am passing thru Illinois. Most of the NE is a total disaster for
CCW, those folks are a bunch of anti-gun fascists, sad to say. The good news is I never
have to got there! So don't really pay any attention except to know not to even think
about CCW if for some reason I needed to go there.

The map is a continuously changing situation. Just a few years ago, SC, VA, WV and
GA wouldn't honor KS, so the Utah was useful as I go to these places pretty often.
Now that KS honors all states, the others have started honoring KS, so the Utah is
much less useful.

We really do need to get national reciprocity, this state by state is baloney.

Bill

starmac
11-06-2014, 11:09 PM
People look at things different I guess. If I thought I had to carry, I would stay home. I don't guess I ever went out of my way to avoid Ill, but I have went way out of my way to avoid chicago, and probably saved time. 3 1/2 hours out of the way might just save you an hour or three.
Now I don't reckon I ever went to, or even through chicago without being armed, and dadgumit, I now find out I might have broken a law.

NavyVet1959
11-07-2014, 06:18 AM
People look at things different I guess. If I thought I had to carry, I would stay home.

If you thought it was going to rain, would you stay home or carry an umbrella, just in case?

I carry a small pocketknife. I might not need it every day, but when I do, it is nice to have.

I can say that I have never been shot while carrying a firearm, but I have been shot (and shot at) while not carrying one. Small sample size, so not statistically meaningful, but I carry anyway.

stephen m weiss
11-07-2014, 08:12 AM
I see a common thread. The biggest risk is humans. Among humans, the government is the biggest risk. Among the government, the thuggish ignorant abusive ones are the biggest risk.

We are always justified in protecting ourselves by avoiding bad weather, germs, cancer, obesity, childlessness, accidents, and criminals, but never (legally) justified in avoiding the power of the governent.

I have always found that avoiding the government and doing the right thing whilst jumping through hoops to keep your privacy is the best course. The NSA gets almost no information on the Amish, they pay little in taxes, and they double their population in 20 years. All by avoiding the government. There should be more of them.. and there will be.

dtknowles
11-07-2014, 11:37 AM
Ok, I'm only good in 39 or 40 states ---- the only state that I go to that I am
not legal in is when I am passing thru Illinois. Most of the NE is a total disaster for
CCW, those folks are a bunch of anti-gun fascists, sad to say. The good news is I never
have to got there! So don't really pay any attention except to know not to even think
about CCW if for some reason I needed to go there.

The map is a continuously changing situation. Just a few years ago, SC, VA, WV and
GA wouldn't honor KS, so the Utah was useful as I go to these places pretty often.
Now that KS honors all states, the others have started honoring KS, so the Utah is
much less useful.

We really do need to get national reciprocity, this state by state is baloney.

Bill

I am sorry but I have to disagree on National reciprocity. I don't want the Federal Government involved.

Tim

flint45
11-07-2014, 03:06 PM
Never trust the fed's and don't tell a cop anything you don't have to! words to live by from a 25 year l.a. county sheriff deputy I worked for 15 years. be careful.