Curious about taxes on private land hunting

[quilbilly]

In the last couple years for the first time ever, the large timber companies in Washington State have started charging significant amounts of money for access to their lands for hunting, fishing, recreational mushroom hunting, etc. In the past access was often restricted to non-motorized but was free. Companies such as Weyerhauser, Rayonier, Merrill and Ring, etc. are all charging large fees now just to walk around looking for edible mushrooms let alone hunt. I am curious how other states tax revenues taken by the land companies. Our big timber companies pay almost no taxes on their land until trees are harvested (fine by me) but in the meantime those lands have not generated revenue. There is currently no structure to tax this new revenue stream while the companies get their did game managed for free at the expense of hunters who can't afford the big bucks to hunt there.
This is not a big deal for deer but almost all the best Roosevelt elk lands are on the private timber lands especially Weyerhauser's and Rayonier's at least until the hoof rot disease currently decimating western Washington elk wipes those herds out in the next couple years.
What do states like Texas, Arkansas, and the Carolinas do with their big ranches and timber companies for instance when trespass fees are charged to get "a piece of the action"?
These are not small plots of land. Millions of acres are involved. One of the many Weyerhauser blocks is several hundred thousand acres for instance.

[Springfield]

Be interesting to see if they actually own this land or do they have some sort of lease with the Government.

[fishhawk]

Wis has had what is known here as "forest crop law" and a new law now known as "managed forest crop" each law gave the timber, paper company's and private land owners a tax break per each acre with the stipulation that the land be open for public hunting and fishing. There was a clause that the owners can restrict access to non motorized access only. Charging to use the land is not allowed if they do they then must repay the tax to the state that would have been on that property. Now with the new managed law the property owner can opt to pay a higher tax rate and "post" the property but it is still below the normal tax rate the local townships place on it.

[starmac]

I would think the land tax is probably like farms and ranches in many states. The sale of the timber, like wheat is income tax, monies from hunting leases would probably be considered income tax.

[quilbilly]

The timber companies like Weyerhauser own the land outright. It was deeded to them in the 1800's by the federal government as a subsidy for railroad building. Definitely private property virtually exempt from property taxes until trees are harvested.

[quilbilly]

Wis has had what is known here as "forest crop law" and a new law now known as "managed forest crop" each law gave the timber, paper company's and private land owners a tax break per each acre with the stipulation that the land be open for public hunting and fishing. There was a clause that the owners can restrict access to non motorized access only. Charging to use the land is not allowed if they do they then must repay the tax to the state that would have been on that property. Now with the new managed law the property owner can opt to pay a higher tax rate and "post" the property but it is still below the normal tax rate the local townships place on it. Awesum information to have. Thanks much!!!

[knifemaker]

May be they are collecting trespass fees to pay for their liability insurance. Here in Northern CA. hunters on private timber land started a forest fire and that fire spread to U.S. Forest Service land and consumed several thousand acres before being put out. Our U.S. Forest service turned around and sued the private timber company for an amount to cover fighting the fire. U.S. Forest service won the law suit. So do not be surprised if those private timber companies start restricting access to their lands for hunting and other activities. If they post the land for no trespassing and someone illegally enters the land and starts a fire, the timber company may not be held liable since they did not give permission for anyone to be on the land. Good old U.S. Forest service looking out for us hunters!!!!

[C. Latch]

In Tennessee there's a 9.75% sales tax on recreational leases.

[jcwit]

Homestake Mining did much the same in the Black Hills years ago. I believe it is past history now.

[dtknowles]

There are many issue related to this and charging for access to private land will be more common in the future.

First any money a land owner collects for allowing access is income and would be taxed as normal income whether the land owner is a individual or a company. I often wonder if local landowners declare all their income from their hunting leases but that is the IRS's business. For companies the amount of money they collect is probably a pittance compared to their other revenue, might hardly cover the cost of posting and collecting.

Liability mentioned in earlier posts could be a driver but it does not really cover them as the people who paid could still cause the same damage.

The main reason I could see for restricting access and charging for access is to have a record of the people who use the land and where they are on the land. I could see it reducing trash dumping and other abuse that has often be a problem for land owners.

Tim

[BrassMagnet]

When hunting becomes a sport that only the rich can afford it will become easy to ban through the initiative process due to envy of the rich.

[Janoosh]

No truer words said, Brass Magnet.!

[shooter93]

Interesting that they are exempt from property taxes until the trees are cut. Your property doesn't generate any income until it's sold ....and that would be income......but I bet you pay property tax every year. Property tax is one of my larger pet peeves. It's a very discriminatory tax and I've paid three properties in my lifetime and have no desire to "rent" it back from the government.

[Freightman]

welcome to my world! why i quit hunting not going to pay exorbitant fees to hunt! and very little public land here. The second amendment was never about hunting anyhow, so they will not get my guns. Well not actually all true I also quit hunting cause I am old beat up and crippled, but have a loaded 1911.:bigsmyl2:

[Mike in TX]

I am in the same situation as Freightman. I am fortunate that I have a kind neighbor who takes me hunting on his ranch but it is by invite only. For deer hunting I go back home to northern New England. Cheaper than a lease in TX.

Mike B

[5Shot]

Also in WA State you can't use State DNR Land without buying a "Discovery Pass". The only land still available to hunters is Dept. of Wildlife and National Forrest lands. I won't pay any fees to use public land and I sure won't pad the pockets of the paper and lumber companies.

It amazes me when the Dept of Wildlife complains about losing revenue ea year. Well duh...it isn't fun to hunt any more. That and they are more concerned about bringing back the wolf than managing deer and elk herds. Of course, they won't have to worry about the latter in a couple years cause the wolves have nearly wiped them all out on the east side already.

My days of hunting are quickly coming to an end.

[quilbilly]

In only one of Weyerhausers blocks over 300,000 acres, 14,000 hunters hunted there last year and this year with the fee, only 3200 bought the permits for either elk or deer at $150 each.

[MaryB]

80 year old lady we leased our deer land from never declared it, she said it was none of the governments business and give me cash. We paid her $200 a year split 8 ways for access to 60 acres of river valley all to ourselves. Was well worth it because it bordered on a town park loaded with deer. And it was the main deer path into that park. We got deer out of it every year.

[dtknowles]

80 year old lady we leased our deer land from never declared it, she said it was none of the governments business and give me cash. We paid her $200 a year split 8 ways for access to 60 acres of river valley all to ourselves. Was well worth it because it bordered on a town park loaded with deer. And it was the main deer path into that park. We got deer out of it every year.

I don't understand this kind of deliberate tax fraud. Worse case she would owe us, that is right, me, you and all Americans $70 dollars. If money is that tight for her then I would guess her tax for that $200 would be even less and if she really needs money she could charge you more since you are getting such a sweet deal. Of course this would fly under the radar, the IRS can't even collect from much bigger cheaters. Honest people should dislike cheaters. You don't seem to mind her cheating, this reflects badly on your character.

Tim

[phonejack]

My hunting club in Arkansas leases land from 2 timber companies and 1 off premise land owner. In all 3 cases payments are just enough to pay for property taxes.

[Blacksmith]

For those who "Won't pay to hunt." Do you buy a hunting license? Or guns? What about ammo or components? No need to answer it is a rhetorical question.

[oneokie]

For those who "Won't pay to hunt." Do you buy a hunting license? Or guns? What about ammo or components? No need to answer it is a rhetorical question.
To take the above statement a little further, If you do not want to pay someone a fee to hunt, buy some real estate of your own to hunt/fish on. Then you are the responsible party to control access to the property.
That way you can be the "bad guy". You need to have the game warden/ranger on speed dial, along with the local law enforcement entity, and know the state hunting regulations by heart. You will be dealing with trespassers on a regular basis.
An upside to this is that one can come into possession of popup ground blinds and tree stands for little expense. If someone complains about the loss of their equipment, provide the offender the phone number of the appropriate law enforcement agency for them to file a formal complaint.

[NavyVet1959]

I don't understand this kind of deliberate tax fraud. Worse case she would owe us, that is right, me, you and all Americans $70 dollars. If money is that tight for her then I would guess her tax for that $200 would be even less and if she really needs money she could charge you more since you are getting such a sweet deal. Of course this would fly under the radar, the IRS can't even collect from much bigger cheaters. Honest people should dislike cheaters. You don't seem to mind her cheating, this reflects badly on your character.


For many people, it is difficult to have any sort of moral outrage at someone who is doing something against a government agency that is screwing over every other citizen. Others, like you apparently, believe that since you are getting screwed, everyone else should get screwed.

That is the problem with the current income based tax system. If you want to ensure that everyone gets to pay taxes, you need to switch to a consumption based tax system.

[5Shot]

I don't understand this kind of deliberate tax fraud. Worse case she would owe us, that is right, me, you and all Americans $70 dollars. If money is that tight for her then I would guess her tax for that $200 would be even less and if she really needs money she could charge you more since you are getting such a sweet deal. Of course this would fly under the radar, the IRS can't even collect from much bigger cheaters. Honest people should dislike cheaters. You don't seem to mind her cheating, this reflects badly on your character.

Tim

Do you declare the money you make from yard/garage sales? Selling guns? The money from sales on Cast Boolit Classifieds? Same thing...it is earned income. I doubt you do...

[captaint]

Having read all this I must say I agree with some and disagree with others. Let me say this - be greatful that you live in a part of the country that has elk to hunt. Pennsylvania has none, except for a small, relatively tame herd upstate. I don't even enter the "drawing" each year for a permit to hunt them. Would I pay 150 bucks every year to hunt wild elk ?? Oh, hell yes I would. I'm not funded well enough to go to Colorado, New Mexico, Utah, Washington, or wherever, on a guided hunt. We all get accustomed to what we have and don't like to go paying for something that has always been gratis. I would probably feel the same way - however, fellas, be happy with what you have. You guys are lucky when we look at the big picture..... enjoy Mike

[dtknowles]

Do you declare the money you make from yard/garage sales? Selling guns? The money from sales on Cast Boolit Classifieds? Same thing...it is earned income. I doubt you do...

So, you assume I am a tax cheat too. Is that because, you assume everyone is including yourself are tax cheats. I did declare the income from the brass I sold here, on ebay and gun broker. I don't have any income from yard sales, I let a friend haul it away, I think they for the most part give it to Goodwill for the tax deduction. I take a standard deduction could care less about tracking my donations to see if I could benefit from itemizing. If I have outside income I declare it on my return. I have not sold a firearm for a profit that I can remember (I have traded up but that is not income until I sell the gun I traded for), I did sell an Automag II for a small loss maybe 5 years ago, I bought it new and it was not accurate enough to be useful to me. I write in some number on my state return for unpaid sales tax for items purchased online, when the vendor does not collect the sales tax, in Louisiana the tax payer is expected to self-declare. I don't keep track but I think I have that covered.

I have no problem following the rules and paying what I owe. I may not like how they spend some of my tax dollars but I am not going to cheat all the other tax payers by not paying what I owe. I have never turned in anyone for being a cheat but it does change my opinion of them when the brag about how the cheat on their taxes. They at least should be ashamed and try to hide it.

I pay a lot in taxes and a few hundred dollars one way or the other hardly makes my radar so it might be less of a temptation for me to cheat than for others. It is a greater virtue to resist a greater temptation. Would I steal to feed my family, lets hope I never have to find out.

Tim

[WILCO]

In the last couple years for the first time ever, the large timber companies in Washington State have started charging significant amounts of money for access to their lands for hunting, fishing, recreational mushroom hunting, etc. In the past access was often restricted to non-motorized but was free.



Companies exist to make money for their shareholders.
The cost of doing business is always going up.
Seeking new streams of revenue is the natural course of action.
Charging fees to access land is basic economics 101.
You want access, they have it. Pay the fee. It's that simple.
As America marches evermore into socialism, you'll see the cost of many industries going up.Communications, banking and healthcare are just three examples.
Hang on for the inflation. Your OP is proof that folks don't care about an issue until it affects them directly. Nothing makes a person scream more than taking from their wallet.

[MaryB]

I really doubt she had any tax liabilities. She lived off social security so the little we gave her was a huge help. Considering she lived through the great depression and saw how predatory our government became I don't blame her attitude. And I do not condone tax cheating, that is between the person who needs to pay it and the government and not my place to step up and say anything. She died 10 years ago and her kids sold off the land to developers so we no longer have it to hunt.


I don't understand this kind of deliberate tax fraud. Worse case she would owe us, that is right, me, you and all Americans $70 dollars. If money is that tight for her then I would guess her tax for that $200 would be even less and if she really needs money she could charge you more since you are getting such a sweet deal. Of course this would fly under the radar, the IRS can't even collect from much bigger cheaters. Honest people should dislike cheaters. You don't seem to mind her cheating, this reflects badly on your character.

Tim

[Gator 45/70]

I like that! The old lady is right, If we paid every tax the government has levied against us then everyone would be broke.



80 year old lady we leased our deer land from never declared it, she said it was none of the governments business and give me cash. We paid her $200 a year split 8 ways for access to 60 acres of river valley all to ourselves. Was well worth it because it bordered on a town park loaded with deer. And it was the main deer path into that park. We got deer out of it every year.

[dtknowles]

I like that! The old lady is right, If we paid every tax the government has levied against us then everyone would be broke.

Are you serious. I expect (I may be in error) that most people pay all the taxes they owe and still make ends meet. People who have undeclared income, work under the table, etc. are criminal and they put pressure on the Government to raise taxes on those that do pay.

Tim

[dakotashooter2]

I'll admit that it is hard for me to swallow the concept of paying for access. I grew up at a time when access was pretty much free but times have changed. I do believe however that if you are charging for access you are running a business and should be paying taxes (like the rest of us), doing something to manage the land and maybe even carrying insurance.

[dragon813gt]

Are you serious. I expect (I may be in error) that most people pay all the taxes they owe and still make ends meet. People who have undeclared income, work under the table, etc. are criminal and they put pressure on the Government to raise taxes on those that do pay.

Tim

You mean like all the criminal illegal aliens that the government does nothing about? I play the governments game. After deductions my effective tax rate is less than half what it's supposed to be. They want to have a convoluted system that's confusing and allows for people to pay less than they should then I'm going to play the game.

As for pay to hunt. It doesn't exist here and I hope it never does. People are more than happy to let you hunt because the herds are enormous. And thankfully there is a lot of public land. When almost all land is private it means no options and you are forced to pay if you want to hunt. Do what you gotta do since options are limited. As far as buying your own land so you don't have to pay. Doesn't work here because we have property taxes.

[dtknowles]

You mean like all the criminal illegal aliens that the government does nothing about? I play the governments game. After deductions my effective tax rate is less than half what it's supposed to be. They want to have a convoluted system that's confusing and allows for people to pay less than they should then I'm going to play the game. .........


I don't consider you a criminal if all you deductions are honest and legal. I do think the system should be changed to eliminate deductions but for now that is the law and people should follow it. A far as tax cheats and illegal aliens they should be caught and punished but I would be concerned if the IRS was big enough an effective enough to do that, I worry about abuse, they can be a powerful tool for the people in power. Changing the law to make it simpler and easier to enforce is the best path.

Tim

[NavyVet1959]

Are you serious. I expect (I may be in error) that most people pay all the taxes they owe and still make ends meet. People who have undeclared income, work under the table, etc. are criminal and they put pressure on the Government to raise taxes on those that do pay.


Luckily the Founding Fathers didn't believe in blindly paying any tax that was levied against them.

Tea anyone?

[Gator 45/70]

Why yes, Yes I am serious, I don't let the government think for me nor am I programed to believe that I'm a criminal just because some offshore company seems to think so...
Its Louisiana, We have been trading with each other years before some gubberment yonk comes along and says, Hey you can't do that unless you pay me a tax...I love my state.




Are you serious. I expect (I may be in error) that most people pay all the taxes they owe and still make ends meet. People who have undeclared income, work under the table, etc. are criminal and they put pressure on the Government to raise taxes on those that do pay.

Tim

[dtknowles]

Why yes, Yes I am serious, I don't let the government think for me nor am I programed to believe that I'm a criminal just because some offshore company seems to think so...
Its Louisiana, We have been trading with each other years before some gubberment yonk comes along and says, Hey you can't do that unless you pay me a tax...I love my state.

I could have missed it but I was not aware of a requirement to pay any sort of tax on barter exchanges. How do they expect you to set a dollar value? Cash sales between individuals, I don't know much about that either except if you have a capital gain it is income and taxable.

Tim

[Gator 45/70]

Which agency are you with?



I could have missed it but I was not aware of a requirement to pay any sort of tax on barter exchanges. How do you expect you to set a dollar value? Cash sales between individuals, I don't know much about that either except if you have a capital gain it is income and taxable.

Tim

[dtknowles]

Which agency are you with?

What do you mean? I work for a small start-up aerospace company.

Tim

[Gator 45/70]

Figured you for a tax accountant type of guy, That works for an ABC Agency.
I for one would hold off using the word 'criminal' considering how well our hard earn money is being used in the form of 'Taxes'
We have an old saying down here,
When you point one finger at me, Your pointing three back at yourself.



What do you mean? I work for a small start-up aerospace company.

Tim

[TXGunNut]

What do states like Texas, Arkansas, and the Carolinas do with their big ranches and timber companies for instance when trespass fees are charged to get "a piece of the action"?-quilbilly

Texas has a public hunting program called "Annual Permit Hunting" or something like that. They lease large tracts of land from ranchers and timber companies, manage it for hunting and charge a fee to the hunters. They also sell permits for non-hunting access as well. I hunted these areas back when the program was called "Type II" and really enjoyed the opportunity.
I have no idea what monies changed hands between the landowners, state and federal government. All I know is that it was large tracts of land that the average guy could hunt for a nominal fee.

[MaryB]

Tell that to the 1% who hide as much cash as they can offshore to avoid paying taxes on it.


Are you serious. I expect (I may be in error) that most people pay all the taxes they owe and still make ends meet. People who have undeclared income, work under the table, etc. are criminal and they put pressure on the Government to raise taxes on those that do pay.

Tim

[dtknowles]

Figured you for a tax accountant type of guy, That works for an ABC Agency.
I for one would hold off using the word 'criminal' considering how well our hard earn money is being used in the form of 'Taxes'
We have an old saying down here,
When you point one finger at me, Your pointing three back at yourself.

You should have figured me for a taxpayer who thinks that the rules are to be followed. We can change them but until they change if you do comply you are stealing from me and the others who follow the rules. For those who thing breaking the rules is a form of civil disobedience, it is only such if you do it publicly and obviously and submit to the appropriate punishment.

Tim

[Gator 45/70]

Lol, That's funny, I don't need some Bozo making ''rules'' for compliance or ''submitting'' to their agenda on taking my money to give to illegals or 300/400 pound on the hoof people who refuse to work!!!
So who's stealing from whom?
Life is hard, Its even harder when you bow down and give your money to whom you perceive as your ''Master''




You should have figured me for a taxpayer who thinks that the rules are to be followed. We can change them but until they change if you do comply you are stealing from me and the others who follow the rules. For those who thing breaking the rules is a form of civil disobedience, it is only such if you do it publicly and obviously and submit to the appropriate punishment.

Tim

[dtknowles]

Tell that to the 1% who hide as much cash as they can offshore to avoid paying taxes on it.

I think I understand what you are trying to say but hiding cash overseas to avoid paying taxes only applies to the earnings that cash can create, you don't have to pay taxes on cash even if it is in a U.S. bank. You pay taxes on income. If the income is earned in a different country it is taxed per the laws of that country.

I think what you want is rules about moving assets from the U.S. to a foreign country. I think we should have more rules about that as well. The would apply to people sending money to family overseas as well as moving assets to foreign tax havens. This is a difficult rule making task as it would apply to the purchase of goods overseas to be imported or sold in a third country. What if I wanted to buy a Canadian business using $2 million I had in a U.S. bank account, what should be my penalty for moving $2 million from the U.S. to Canada? What if I am a Legal Immigrant to the U.S. from Israel and I want to send $1000 a month to my parents in Israel, what should the penalty/tax be on that transfer?

I am not saying you don't have a point it is just a rule making challenge. I think I could get behind a 10% offshoring tax. One time tax for every dollar leaving the country for whatever reason.

Tim

[quilbilly]

Companies exist to make money for their shareholders.
The cost of doing business is always going up.
Seeking new streams of revenue is the natural course of action.
Charging fees to access land is basic economics 101.
You want access, they have it. Pay the fee. It's that simple.
As America marches evermore into socialism, you'll see the cost of many industries going up.Communications, banking and healthcare are just three examples.
Hang on for the inflation. Your OP is proof that folks don't care about an issue until it affects them directly. Nothing makes a person scream more than taking from their wallet.
I absolutely support the timber companies' right to charge fees to access their property. No problem! The part I have a problem with is that they get subsidized by the state (no property taxes) because the land supposedly generates no income while trees are growing for 35 years meanwhile they are generating a steady income stream without state taxes (we have no income tax). That is called having your cake and eating it too. I am just suggesting that if they want to be subsidized by the taxpayers, they should make it worthwhile for the taxpayers. The feds are not involved in this. Purely a state thing and I am hoping to find out what other states do. This is one of several sweetheart subsidies this corrupt one party state state gives to powerful special interest groups (one example without naming it is that the state spends six dollars to put one dollar into the special interest pocket then the interest turns around and pays no state taxes whatsoever by exemption. a sweet deal if you can get it).

[starmac]

Are they taxed zero property tax or low property tax like agriculture land in most states?? Could it be that the state gives them breaks trying to keep them in business, providing jobs and taxes on profit. The lumber business has taken a hard hit across a lot of the western US.

[dtknowles]

Lol, That's funny, I don't need some Bozo making ''rules'' for compliance or ''submitting'' to their agenda on taking my money to give to illegals or 300/400 pound on the hoof people who refuse to work!!!
So who's stealing from whom?
Life is hard, Its even harder when you bow down and give your money to whom you perceive as your ''Master''

My tax dollar go lots of places some I disagree with and some I agree with. I pay all sorts of taxes to all sorts of authorities, It is part of being civilized, I prefer the rule of law to authoritarianism or anarchy. I do not have to pay bribes or fear being shaken down by criminal rackets. I have advocated for the elimination of the Federal Income Tax as something that is unconstitutional and wish it to be replaced with a consumption based tax but that does not lead me to desire to cheat on my Federal Income tax return. I do not see the Federal Government as my Master. People who cheat on their taxes can rationalize as much as they want but in my mind they are just greedy cheaters with only there own interests at heart. The Federal Government wastes my money in the ways selected by our elected officials. The way to fix that is to elect different people so they will put it to better use. If we ever get a government that really can put my money to good use I would gladly give them more.
You might have mistaken me for someone working for an alphabet agency because my Dad was a CPA with a private tax consulting practice. He knew all the loopholes but would never have advocated cheating.

Life might be hard, I know is seems so sometimes. Jerks who won't carry their own weight don't make it any easier whether they are tax cheats or welfare cheats or illegal immigrants or just plain thieves. I feel good about paying for my share of the roads, schools, armed forces, scientific research, and national debt. It is not the cheaters who made/make this county great.

TIm

[TXGunNut]

Looks like this thread is headed for the Pit.

[Gator 45/70]

I love it! You've posted something that now makes a bit of sense!
Just remember one thing, There are plenty of us out there whom can be labeled ''Bad Men''
We are the free thinkers who bow to no one, The liberals fear us because we cannot be controlled thru fear or intimidation.
You will learn this after you've had enough. Carry on.

[Gator 45/70]

I think your right, How many times do we need to be called criminals and cheats? I suspect he's a young man?


Looks like this thread is headed for the Pit.

[dtknowles]

I love it! You've posted something that now makes a bit of sense!
Just remember one thing, There are plenty of us out there whom can be labeled ''Bad Men''
We are the free thinkers who bow to no one, The liberals fear us because we cannot be controlled thru fear or intimidation.
You will learn this after you've had enough. Carry on.

If you are a free thinker and bow to no one, why do you pay any taxes at all or maybe you don't? If you cannot be controlled thru fear or intimidation then the IRS or any of the other alphabet agencies are no restraint on your activities. Got any unlicensed class 3 weapons maybe you litter with impunity :-)

Tim

[TXGunNut]

Young? Maybe. Idealistic? Most certainly. Not always a bad thing. 'Nuff said, I don't discuss my politics around here.

[Gator 45/70]

That dog don't hunt, Are you drunk posting?



If you are a free thinker and bow to no one, why do you pay any taxes at all or maybe you don't? If you cannot be controlled thru fear or intimidation then the IRS or any of the other alphabet agencies are no restraint on your activities. Got any unlicensed class 3 weapons maybe you litter with impunity :-)

Tim

[quilbilly]

Are they taxed zero property tax or low property tax like agriculture land in most states?? Could it be that the state gives them breaks trying to keep them in business, providing jobs and taxes on profit. The lumber business has taken a hard hit across a lot of the western US.
They pay "timber taxes" upon harvest as a sort of deferred property tax at a very low rate and I support that for the very reason you stated to provide jobs in remote communities like Forks or Naselle. Timber is agriculture but the crop only comes in every 35-50 years so they should get that break but if you "harvest" another crop every year such as wildlife and profit from it, the companies put themselves in a new category of agriculture. That Wisconsin model stated above gives the timber companies an option which is a pretty good concept. Sadly I know that if the companies pump enough money into the Party during legislative session, they will be allowed to have their cake and eat it too. I was just hoping to find out how other states dealt with this situation left down to us from when the railroad builders were given land in order to build the rails.
If I had known this thread would get so hot or go so far afield. I might not have started this.

[dtknowles]

I think your right, How many times do we need to be called criminals and cheats? I suspect he's a young man?

It might be time for this thread to head to the pit or you could start a new one over there so the property tax question can stay here. I am 56, you can decide if that is young or not. I have not called anyone a cheat or criminal, I have pointed out behavior that I consider criminal cheating. If the shoe fits, wear it. It is sort of like the thread I started about bigots on the forum, people were jumping in all over the place to out themselves as bigots, they were speculating about who might have set me off. Again I did not name names. I think one or two people as much as admitted they cheat on their taxes and went so far as to accuse me, even describing how I was probably doing it.

What would my age have to do with anything, do you judge people based on how old you think they are? Do you want to think that I am young so you can write me off as naïve as opposed to me having learned these lesson and advanced to wisdom. I am not a Christian but Mark 12:17 or Matthew 22:21 might be informative relating to coins of the realm and taxes for those who value the insights of the Bible.

Tim

[Gator 45/70]

Ok, Goodnight young man, I really DON'T care what you point out or what YOU think is criminal, Nor do I care if your not a Christian yet want to point out passages in the Bible, Thanks



It might be time for this thread to head to the pit or you could start a new one over there so the property tax question can stay here. I am 56, you can decide if that is young or not. I have not called anyone a cheat or criminal, I have pointed out behavior that I consider criminal cheating. If the shoe fits, wear it. It is sort of like the thread I started about bigots on the forum, people were jumping in all over the place to out themselves as bigots, they were speculating about who might have set me off. Again I did not name names. I think one or two people as much as admitted they cheat on their taxes and went so far as to accuse me, even describing how I was probably doing it.

What would my age have to do with anything, do you judge people based on how old you think they are? Do you want to think that I am young so you can write me off as naïve as opposed to me having learned these lesson and advanced to wisdom. I am not a Christian but Mark 12:17 or Matthew 22:21 might be informative relating to coins of the realm and taxes for those who value the insights of the Bible.

Tim

[waksupi]

There should be a staff member along shortly to deal with this.

[R.Ph. 380]

I don't consider you a criminal if all you deductions are honest and legal. I do think the system should be changed to eliminate deductions but for now that is the law and people should follow it. A far as tax cheats and illegal aliens they should be caught and punished but I would be concerned if the IRS was big enough an effective enough to do that, I worry about abuse, they can be a powerful tool for the people in power. Changing the law to make it simpler and easier to enforce is the best path.

Tim

You sound like you believe we owe the Government. I think they owe us. If you lay down, the government will step all over you.

[quilbilly]

Years ago I used to lobby the legislature on timber-fish-wildlife issues before I quit to build our house in paradise in the forest at the end of the road. My hope was to get some information from other states to take back to certain legislators in our state capitol on ways to protect our timber industry while at the same time protect our hunting heritage on our timberlands before the new system changes the face of hunting here west of the Cascade Mountains. My apologies to all for this thread going off track.
I am off now for a couple days of elk chasing with my 444 and the Lee 310 gr RF-GC on those public lands adjacent the newly fee area. I smile because I know that if I didn't have bad luck elk hunting, I wouldn't have any at all.

[dtknowles]

There should be a staff member along shortly to deal with this.

I will take my off topic discussions elsewhere. Sorry for the drift.

Tim

[white eagle]

I don't understand this kind of deliberate tax fraud. Worse case she would owe us, that is right, me, you and all Americans $70 dollars. If money is that tight for her then I would guess her tax for that $200 would be even less and if she really needs money she could charge you more since you are getting such a sweet deal. Of course this would fly under the radar, the IRS can't even collect from much bigger cheaters. Honest people should dislike cheaters. You don't seem to mind her cheating, this reflects badly on your character.

Tim

do you work for the IRS ?

why feed the gov. they steal enough money from us as it is
I say good for her.

[waksupi]

I will take my off topic discussions elsewhere. Sorry for the drift.

Tim

It's not the topic, it's the tone. Wasn't necessarily commenting on your posts.

[MaryB]

I do not mind paying a reasonable fee but some people go nuts and think that 5 acre patch of trees on that abandoned farm is worth $200 a year to hunt. $10 maybe because it may hold deer once in awhile but it is not prime land. Now river bottom and valley edge forested land is worth more to me because I know the deer will be in there during the season.

[dtknowles]

It's not the topic, it's the tone. Wasn't necessarily commenting on your posts.

Maybe so but I am glad to avoid continued thread drift. I had my say and need not comment more.

Tim