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No_1
09-20-2005, 08:38 PM
We all like to cast. We find, scrounge, buy and barrow stuff , toss it in a pot and try to make the "magic witch's brew" that will not lead, be hard enough to penetrate but soft enough to expand. Then we mix everything under the sun in an attempt to make our own lube. We have controlled heat sources, known mixtures of products to start with, hardness testers, lube sizers, tumblers, ect.

Now to the real question? How did they do it back in the mid-1800's or so? These were people who did not have a whole lot of anything much less the info gained from years of experience share by the fine people here. I am sure Jeb and Hoss were not riding down the trail when lo and behold old Jeb sees a wheel weight at the fork in the road down by the "hang'n oak", picks it up and saves it for later. What did they use and how did they do it?

What about the civil war? Did these guys cast their own at night over an open fire from the "take outs" the doctors pulled from the wounded or were they supplied ready to shoot balls?

AND lube. I figure the front stuffers used a piece of shirt tail but what did those with rifled weapons use for lube?

beagle
09-20-2005, 09:45 PM
As for the civil war, I was too young for that one.

I have picked up a bunch of minie balls from CW battlefields witha metal detector.

The confederate guys cast a lot from the pickups I've found and probably a lot of captured stuff as well as it seems like the yankees dropped a lot when they were hauling butt. The union guys used "store bought" stuff for the most part. Much of the .58 stuff I've picked up was swaged and furnished in "cartridge form". I've also picked up .36 cal revolver bullets that were in cartridge form as the marks were still on the bullet where the string had been tied. Of cource, the Spencer stuff being rimfire was all store bought.

As far as how lead was furnished for casting, I've wondered about that. I know from reading that the early mountain men purchased lead in bars known as Galena bars for their use. I guess one of the main sources of lead at that time was at Galena, OH.

Maybe someone who has studied this period in history can enlighten us./beagle

Cliff
09-20-2005, 09:52 PM
Most casting was done with basically pure lead. Lead was pretty pricey the further you got from the source. A lot of old shooting matches included a prize which amounted to cutting down the tree used as a back stop and being able to reclaim the lead. As far as lube went, just about any type of grease was used, usually what was available and such. Tallow and beeswax was used by the military during the civil war but they kept looking for better lubes. When serious target shooting such as Schutzen shooting and such got active, different alloys were tried for the magic bullet. Many shooters had their own secret lube blend, jealously guarded. Patching material was important and usually kept safejust for its importance. Of course the region of the country made a difference. Some areas liked round ball guns and some liked elongated bullets. As far as cartridge guns it changed a lot but I think basically pure lead was the main thing used. Paper patched bullets helped as well.

Leftoverdj
09-20-2005, 10:07 PM
Ned Roberts covered all this better than I can. "Muzzleloading Caplock Rifles", I think. Bear and sperm oil were popular with paper patched bullets. I know that various waxes were used with "naked" bullets, specifically bayberry. They had to be using lard/beeswax mixtures because those were so readily had and so obvious.

I've read that the fur companies packaged powder in lead flasks so the container could become the projectile. Can't vouch for that, but it made sense.

shooter575
09-20-2005, 10:32 PM
During the C/W the majority of all ammo was issued.Both sides.Union minnes were swaged.Women were used assemble the rounds.ie tie paper,lube pour powder etc. They were wraped in 10 round packages with 12 musket caps per.These were packed in wood cases of a 1000 rounds or so. A infantrymans load was 40 rounds in his cartridge box. There is a lot of info out there about this.
The south had some shortages of lead.There was a lot coming from west of mississippi Mo and Ar I beleve.That got cut off when yanks took control of the river.There was some in east Tn,Va. panhandle area also.Many blockade runners had lead loaded for ballist from England. Contairy to belief the south never went short of powder.They had in Agusta Ga the most modern powder works in the world.Reportaly the stuff from there was equel or better that the best of europe.That plant was never attacked. The south did have some local shortages but that came from transport issues.

fourarmed
09-21-2005, 12:18 PM
In Stewart Edward White's biography of Daniel Boone, he tells of a period when Boone was held captive by Indians far from any white settlements. Because of his hunting skills, he was issued limited amounts of powder and ball, and allowed to hunt for the tribe. He cut the balls in half and loaded them over reduced powder charges. When he had accumulated enough ammunition for food and defense, he escaped.

junkbug
09-21-2005, 02:17 PM
Hello all;

While metal detecting in the backyard of a rented farm in Loudoun County Virginia, I found lead goubules but no completed bullets in an area known to have been regularly patrolled by the Confederated early in the Civil War.

I suspect campfire casting then was easier than casting today for two reasons:
1. Mostly pure lead, or lead alloyed weakly with tin was used predominantly

2. Moulds were of round balls, or short, fat conicals, which are still the easiest projectiles to cast.


I also believe soldiers of that day would be far less fussy about rejecting bullets with casting imperfections,than we are today. Even early in the war, Confederates were issued worn rifles, past their prime. When used next to an old smooth bore, even an imperfect bullet out of a worn rifle would be just as good, or better than a perfect (undersized) ball out of a smooth bore percussion musket.

It seems our accuracy expectations are much higher today than they were in 1860. That must be progress.

Take care.

Sean

BOOM BOOM
09-21-2005, 02:38 PM
HI,
GALENA is the name of a rich lead ore that looks like lead. Interesting thread.

waksupi
09-21-2005, 03:57 PM
My buddy Mike Nesbitt did an article, that I believe was in the last issue of Muzzloader magazine. They found you could indeed shoot a half ball, but not at a very far range. I wondered if he (Boone) cut them in half, and kind of pounded them kinda round, and used a heavy patching. I think it would be a bit more effective.
The Mines of Spain were located on the Mississippi river, and were operated by Julien Dubuque. He made a deal with the Sac & Fox Indians for mining rights, using a bit of chicanery. He had an accomplice pour kerosene on the river, and light it afire, to make big medicine during the talks.
The deposits in the area were generally of large blocks of lead, with some sulpher, and other impurities in it. There were other deposits scattered around the midwest, up through Wisconsin, Iowa, Illinois, as the main areas. The lead was sent by boat to St. Louis for refining, involving a controlled cooking, to remove the sulpher content, or to at least reduce it to a usable level. The natural lead has a content of arsenic in it, so would have some natural hardening agent.
I'm working on an article with all this info, and more, that will eventually see the light of day.

Sample of raw lead ore

KCSO
09-21-2005, 04:20 PM
Moulds could be made of Brass, iron, or even soap stone. I have a 69 caliber soapstone mould and it casts pretty good balls. having done a good amount of authentic bullet casting I will just offer these tips. You need some good coals for your melting spoon or your lead pot. A circle of coals red hot about 8-10 inches in diameter is pretty good. Nestle the lead pot in the coals and have a long handled dipper or pouring spoon or learn to like toasted knuckles. You will pour into the mould and drop the balls with their attached sprues on a piece of buckskin. After you have cast about 20 or 30 balls you wil put the pot away and then trim the sprues with your knife or with the sprue cutter on the handle of the mould. 20 to 30 balls would last a frontiersman a long time, see Little House Book # 1 for another description of this process. The cut off sprues could be re melted or chopped up for bird shot. I usually hammerd mine some flat and then cut them for shot.

Casting over a wood stove is pretty well covered in the Ideal #5 Manual, but this is how my grandfather did it.

You put a casters ring in the stove and drop the pot in the ring. This sets the pot right down on the fire and gives a more even heat. Your lead will be whatever you have scrounged from plumbers trimmings or scrap lead and IF you are well to-do you might have some block tin from the hardware store to add. You pre heat your mould on the edge of the stove, NEVER in the lead pot. Wearing some buckskin gloves you start casting and remember to tilt the mould and let the lead slide in, using an Ideal dipper. The lube pan will be standing on the other edge of the stove and the hot bullets are set in the lube. We used sheeps tallow and bees wax for lube. When you have enough bullets, say 30 or so, you set the bullets in the lube pan off to cool and clen off the stove. For a casting fire we used either ash or red elm split fine and the kitchen got some warm so this was a fall and winter job. This casting was done over a Buck wood stove when I was just a litter shaver and repeated over the years when I had a wood cook stove in the milkhouse that doubled as my loading room. You will notice that you don't cast a lot of bullets this way, this is mostly because in the old days shooting 5 or 10 shots for practice was a big deal. We always graded out bullets pretty close and grampa would not shoot one that had a visible defect. Mostly I remember trying not to touch those shiny silver bullets until they were cool.

Bye the by most of this casting was for a trapdoor cut down rifle and the bullets were either round ball or Collar button bullets taht weighed about 180 grains??? and were shot over a light charge of powder for rabbit and squirrel. An old Bridgeport mould made big bullets an inch or more long, but I never saw that mould used or got to shoot any of the shells loaded with it until I had my own trapdoor in the late 60's. I traded that US marked Bridgeport mould in the 70's for a brand new Lyman mould and thought I really took a sucker.

KCSO
09-21-2005, 04:25 PM
Moulds could be made of Brass, iron, or even soap stone. I have a 69 caliber soapstone mould and it casts pretty good balls. having done a good amount of authentic bullet casting I will just offer these tips. You need some good coals for your melting spoon or your lead pot. A circle of coals red hot about 8-10 inches in diameter is pretty good. Nestle the lead pot in the coals and have a long handled dipper or pouring spoon or learn to like toasted knuckles. You will pour into the mould and drop the balls with their attached sprues on a piece of buckskin. After you have cast about 20 or 30 balls you wil put the pot away and then trim the sprues with your knife or with the sprue cutter on the handle of the mould. 20 to 30 balls would last a frontiersman a long time, see Little House Book # 1 for another description of this process. The cut off sprues could be re melted or chopped up for bird shot. I usually hammerd mine some flat and then cut them for shot.

Casting over a wood stove is pretty well covered in the Ideal #5 Manual, but this is how my grandfather did it.

You put a casters ring in the stove and drop the pot in the ring. This sets the pot right down on the fire and gives a more even heat. Your lead will be whatever you have scrounged from plumbers trimmings or scrap lead and IF you are well to-do you might have some block tin from the hardware store to add. You pre heat your mould on the edge of the stove, NEVER in the lead pot. Wearing some buckskin gloves you start casting and remember to tilt the mould and let the lead slide in, using an Ideal dipper. The lube pan will be standing on the other edge of the stove and the hot bullets are set in the lube. We used sheeps tallow and bees wax for lube. When you have enough bullets, say 30 or so, you set the bullets in the lube pan off to cool and clen off the stove. For a casting fire we used either ash or red elm split fine and the kitchen got some warm so this was a fall and winter job. This casting was done over a Buck wood stove when I was just a litter shaver and repeated over the years when I had a wood cook stove in the milkhouse that doubled as my loading room. You will notice that you don't cast a lot of bullets this way, this is mostly because in the old days shooting 5 or 10 shots for practice was a big deal. We always graded out bullets pretty close and grampa would not shoot one that had a visible defect. Mostly I remember trying not to touch those shiny silver bullets until they were cool.

Bye the by most of this casting was for a trapdoor cut down rifle and the bullets were either round ball or Collar button bullets taht weighed about 180 grains??? and were shot over a light charge of powder for rabbit and squirrel. An old Bridgeport mould made big bullets an inch or more long, but I never saw that mould used or got to shoot any of the shells loaded with it until I had my own trapdoor in the late 60's. I traded that US marked Bridgeport mould in the 70's for a brand new Lyman mould and thought I really took a sucker.

beagle
09-21-2005, 04:59 PM
History of the Lewis and Clark expedition tells us this was the practice for them and it worked out very well./beagle


Ned Roberts covered all this better than I can. "Muzzleloading Caplock Rifles", I think. Bear and sperm oil were popular with paper patched bullets. I know that various waxes were used with "naked" bullets, specifically bayberry. They had to be using lard/beeswax mixtures because those were so readily had and so obvious.

I've read that the fur companies packaged powder in lead flasks so the container could become the projectile. Can't vouch for that, but it made sense.

NVcurmudgeon
09-21-2005, 06:03 PM
Galena, a lead ore, is often found near silver mines. I live about six or seven miles West of Virginia City, famous for silver. Galena Creek runs (when the Arab-owned, French-run, golf course developers have taken their water off the top) within 400 yds. of my house. Farther upstream is an idle lead mine. Does galena kill golf courses? One can only hope!

Scrounger
09-21-2005, 06:19 PM
Galena, a lead ore, is often found near silver mines. I live about six or seven miles West of Virginia City, famous for silver. Galena Creek runs (when the Arab-owned, French-run, golf course developers have taken their water off the top) within 400 yds. of my house. Farther upstream is an idle lead mine. Does galena kill golf courses? One can only hope!

Tell the Frenchies you're making bullets, they'll most likely surrender on the spot. Apparently there are a bunch of companies marketing tours to Las Vegas to the Frenchies. Part of the tour is an excursion to Death Valley. (One could only hope...) Since our fair city is a convenient midway point, all the buses stop at Smith's super market for restroom break and whatever refreshments the frogs want to buy. They wander through our store for half an hour or so, getting in the way and driving the locals bananas. There have been many complaints to the market but nothing changes. My logical mind tells me there MUST be other nationalites involved. But. There are definitely no Asians or Hispanics. I would recognize English, German, Spanish or Italian if that was what they were jabbering. (NO, I don't speak those other languages but I would recognize them) So they're Frenchies or Flemish. Five or six busloads a day. Oh well, our own money coming home...

9.3X62AL
09-21-2005, 06:19 PM
Great stuff, folks. Info like this is why I hang out here! THANK YOU!

GOLF--decadent, yuppie, land-wasting trash sport, one notch above midget-tossing and WWF. One can only HOPE that galena will turn the grass purple.

drinks
09-21-2005, 09:01 PM
Yep;
Have been told that the water used to keep one swimming pool in operation in Nevada would let Amerindians raise enough food for 30-40 people for one year, oh well.

carpetman
09-21-2005, 09:21 PM
water in one swimming pool be enough for food for 30-40 amerindians for a year. What do they eat? Chlorine soup?

imashooter2
09-22-2005, 12:12 AM
Great stuff, folks. Info like this is why I hang out here! THANK YOU!

GOLF--decadent, yuppie, land-wasting trash sport, one notch above midget-tossing and WWF. One can only HOPE that galena will turn the grass purple.

Actually, I consider golf very similar to shooting. You compete against yourself and the course same as shooting. You exercise precise control of your equipment up close to effect a result at distance, just like shooting. You can continue to play and enjoy it well into your twilight years, just like shooting.

Golf is a solid, middle class working man's sport and a pursuit fully the equal of any other game you might mention. Including shooting.

StarMetal
09-22-2005, 12:28 AM
Only thing I can say about golf is you sure don't see them turning land that is availiable for golf courses into rifle ranges.

That's why I dispise golf, not because of the game itself.

Joe

imashooter2
09-22-2005, 07:33 AM
Only thing I can say about golf is you sure don't see them turning land that is availiable for golf courses into rifle ranges.

That's why I dispise golf, not because of the game itself.

Joe

Of course they aren't turning the land into rifle ranges... they are playing golf on it.

If golf was banned, there wouldn't be 3 courses in the whole country that would be turned into rifle ranges anyway. They would become housing developments and parks.

NVcurmudgeon
09-22-2005, 11:03 AM
Not cast boolits, but relevant to frontier days bullet making, is the resurcefulness of American Indians. There was an article in, IIRC, Gun Digest years ago about Indian improvised ammuntiion. The Apaches of Arizona were known to hammer copper into bullets. I can't remember if they mined and smelted the copper, or used the White Eyes' telegraph wire. That would have made bullet making serve a second purpose for the Apache war effort, interfering with communications.

Leftoverdj
09-22-2005, 11:23 AM
As Shooter notes, there are lead deposits in SW Virginia. There were also convenient sources of saltpeter and sulphur. Some of this lives on in the place names; i.e., Leadville and White Sulphur Springs. The saltpeter came largely from bat caves, having crystallized out of the guano.

There was also considerable iron production in the Valley of Virginia. A glance at a map will show dozens of place names ending in Forge or Furnace. The deposits were not large by modern standards, but were sufficient for an agrarian lifestyle. Many of the furnaces were family operated winter enterprises making a few tons of iron when it was too cold for crops. The Shenandoah river offered convenient transport and an occasional pig iron bar can still be found as the river shifts course.

Maven
09-22-2005, 02:53 PM
Waksupi, Kerosene was invented in 1830 by Reichenback (sometimes von Reichenback) & Christison, so I doubt that it was the substance used to make "big medicine."

Golf steroetypes: Dep. Al, I'm frankly surprised and disappointed in you for condemning golf & golfers (not some of them, but categorically) as a game for yuppies. Look up the history of it and you'll see it had nothing to do with the term "yuppie," which is an abbreviation once used by the U.S. Census Bureau for young, urban/upwardly mobile professionals aka "yuppie scum." My wife and her friends are avid golfers and would only be mistaken for yuppies by the seriously delusional (She's 58 yrs. old for pity's sake! Don't tell her I said this!), potheads, or aging hippies still caught on Casteneda's "The Teachings of Don Juan." Btw, golf is no longer my cup of tea (or tee?), but that doesn't mean all who play it are somehow obnoxious, etc. Would you be happy if target shooters and bullet casters were so characterized?

felix
09-22-2005, 03:09 PM
Maven, Al surely did not mean all golfers, I'm sure! He is talking about the liberal faction of those who take up sports for the purposes of show and tell only. There are a lot of shotgun targeteers whom I know who fit the same category of being liberal bent. Would they vote anti-gun? Not likely, but I sometimes question myself on that. I guess it depends on how much money they would lose if their shotguns and related garb were taken away. (My wife plays tennis, and I don't like those folks who do, typically. Just ask her!). ... felix

StarMetal
09-22-2005, 03:15 PM
Waksupi,

Ric, or anyone else. About kerosene burning on water. I was under the intentions that kersosene, unless you got it very hot, would not burn by itself, unlike say gasoline; that you had to put it on something such as a piece of wood, paper, lantern wick, etc. Please explain how it burned by itself on water.

Joe

waksupi
09-22-2005, 03:24 PM
Maven, et al, the info I had on that comes from a history book, "Iowa, Old and New". Very dated, published in the early 1950's. I supopose it was folklore passed down. I can imagine a gallon or two of grain alcohol poured on the water may have done the deed, but what a waste!

I have nothing against golf, just isn't my cup of tea. The only game I was ever involved with, was at a mountain man rendezvous. Clubs and balls had to be hand made, and you got extra points for wearing kilts. Bagpipers led the group to the fairways, escorted by an ox cart hauling libations.
Don't remember who won, or if everyone even hit thier balls. I doubt any of the participants had ever played before aside from one or two. It seemed appropriate to try it like the old time Scots did.

fourarmed
09-22-2005, 05:43 PM
Alright, already, so golfers are OK. Can we at least badmouth frisbee throwers?

sundog
09-22-2005, 10:49 PM
Ric, was there a shotgun start? [I just couldn't resist that.] Sure wish I coulda been there -- 'specially when the oxen cart pulled up.... sundog

C1PNR
09-22-2005, 11:50 PM
Ric,

Your story kind of sounds like my introduction to Bocce Ball. It was on either Tic or Toc Island in the middle of Upper Saranac Lake in the Adirondack Mountains of Northern New York.

I went on a weekend canoe outing with the local Fakowie (spelling may be a little off) Indian tribe. No oxen cart needed for libations as we never strayed over 20 feet from the "cache.":smile:

An interesting aside is that about 30 guys consumed HUGE quantities of (almost exclusively Canadian) bottled beer (cans taint the flavor, don't you know!) over the weekend on an island composed of 99% rock and only 2 bottles broke during the entire time!
Can't say I'm a real fan of Bocce Ball, but I did enjoy my introduction to the sport!;-)

jh45gun
09-23-2005, 12:31 AM
I think as far as casting back in the old days it was a simpler process as many guns were supplied with a mould for the gun and that black powder seemed to be more user friendly in loading. you filled the case inserted the bullet to slightly compress the powder and it worked well and it sounds like that would be pretty consistant. I think using smokeless powder to try to duplicate them same loads is where we run into some problems. Not all the times as you guys have perfected some good loads, but I am sure you did a lot of trial and error to do so too. Nothing wrong with that it just seems that back then with only one powder and one bullet size for the case they loaded it up and stayed with it as it worked.

Ed Barrett
09-23-2005, 02:59 AM
I believe before kerosene the common fuel for lighting was whale oil or rendered fat. if you poured enough of either of fuels in a river you could make someone who wasn't familiar with them into thinking it was big magic. I have about 2 ounces of whale oil left that I bought from brownell's 35 years ago, but I'm not offering it for a "let's pour it in the river and try lighting it test".

KCSO
09-23-2005, 12:17 PM
Kerosene WILL burn by itself, but not very enthusasticly. This is why my Grandmother used it to start the wood stove every morning, a handfull of cobs and a 1/2 cup of Kero and off she goes. Having a devious mind I put my sister up to filling the Kero can with gas one time and Grandma blew all the lids off the stove and filled the kitchen with black soot.

It,s no wonder I was 15 before I found out my real name wasn't sacramenski.

StarMetal
09-23-2005, 12:42 PM
ksco,

I've never seen kerosene burn by itself. Now you said you mom started the stove with cobs and cup of kerosene to show me that it burns by itself, well the cobs were present. That gave the kerosene something to burn ON. Had put a cup of kerosene in the stove and tried to light it with a match it won't burn and I don't mean throwing the match in it, if you throw the match in then the match provides something for the kerosene to burn on. I think that kerosene alone doesn't have a high enough flash point or burn point to burn alone unless you get it hot enough. There's not a whole lot of vapors that come off kerosene like there is for gasoline. I think the reason it burns when you put it on something such as wood is because the wood burn point is probably lower and it burns first, heating the kerosene on it to the burn point, then the kerosene burns.

Joe

felix
09-23-2005, 01:18 PM
It is all based upon on how much free oxygen is present AND the amount of heat to force the oxidation of the material in question, be it gasoline, paint, jet fuel, etc. Refiners are now adding oxygen into car fuel to ease ignition requirements and to prevent as much solid carbon as a residue. Won't be long until other "fuels" are modified as such. So, maybe coal oil, K1, K2, or whatever will soon support enough oxidation without needing a wick. Who knows. ... felix

9.3X62AL
09-23-2005, 01:43 PM
To clarify--I vigorously resent most avocations that are pretentiously pursued by adherents that I see in my local area. This would include snow skiing, golf, and trap shooting. Golf as practiced by my sister in Bozeman would be a lot of fun--as practiced by most of those in my area of CA, it is a status game for upwardly-mobile corporate or public sector wonks trying to polish the boss' apple, and trap shooting isn't much different--although trap does offer the oppurtunity to embarrass the Beretta Boys with my slimy old Winchester, Ithaca, and Remington pumps. I'm sure that all three sports pursued without pretense are fine pastimes--one of the principal attractants for the boolit casting cohort is its absence of pretense. I just don't like people putting on airs. Forget I said anything.

Rotten daughters........one of them asked if ox carts used wheel weights in the old days, when she saw the topic line of this thread. No respect, whatsoever. She continued the line a few minutes later, pointing to the 1# and 3# ingots on the workbench--"Look, ox cart wheel weights!" Laugh, laugh, laugh--ain't she a riot.......

floodgate
09-23-2005, 10:18 PM
Joe:

"I've never seen kerosene burn by itself."

C'mon, Joe. How many movies have you seen where someone tips over a kerosene lamp and the whole saloon goes off like a bomb?

Doug

floodgate
09-23-2005, 10:24 PM
Al:

"To clarify--I vigorously resent most avocations that are pretentiously pursued by adherents that I see in my local area. This would include snow skiing, golf, and trap shooting."

I lived next to a golfing course for ten years or so, but never owned a golf bat.

"--although trap does offer the oppurtunity to embarrass the Beretta Boys with my slimy old Winchester,"

Heard about an old gunsmith who rebuilt someone's Purdy or whatever and was invited to a posh trap range as a "thank you". He cleaned the course with a '97 Trench Gun, but was never asked back.

floodgate

KCSO
09-24-2005, 11:16 AM
Kero spilled on the driveway burns, it is classed as a flamable liquid and it starts good fires in the wood stove. In my solvent tank the fire marshall makes me have a fusible link in case the Kero catches fire. That's about all I know on the subject other than if you substitute gas you can blow up your cook stove. As to golfing...
I only hit a golf ball once in my life. My son was in the front yard hitting balls into a vacant lot. I grabbed a club, I think he called it a woodie and he told me that it would hit the ball a long way. about 250 yards up the hill the neighbor had a tin shed with 1 2 foot square window in it. I took a mighty swing and the next thing I heard was a crash and bong bong bong as the ball rattled around the inside of the tin building. That was my only try at golf, it's too expensive for me.

9.3X62AL
09-24-2005, 11:31 AM
Floodgate--

Pretense is a hard thing to understand.

twotoescharlie
09-24-2005, 11:50 AM
gaawlee! this shore is a enlightened bunch of fellers around hear. he he he

TTC

buck1
09-24-2005, 10:19 PM
I'm no golfer, but I am suprised that anyone here would be down on someones elses chosen sport.
I hate it when someone dogs shooting . And CB shooters get dogged even by other shooters!
I belive iamashooter2 is dead on.
Heck in both sports the goal is the same, to get "a hole in one", we just like to get our holes close together!!
Great thread!..........buck

P.S. This is true... G.O.L.F AKA Golf= G-entlemen O-nly L-adies F-orbiden.

Blackwater
09-24-2005, 11:30 PM
Now all you golf haters consider this:

As long as man lives on this earth, and maybe especially in this day and age, there WILL always be something deeply satisfying about rearing way back and smacking the ever-lovin' schmidtt out of something (a little white ball even), and then watching it fly away as though it'll never come down again.

Satisfying? Nay! Absolutely EXHILERATING!!!!

Dang shame I can't play any more due to back problems. I'd watch it more if Palmer, Player, Nicklaus, Chi Chi and Trevino played more, but all they show on TV nowadays is the young lions, and I don't know them, and don't much care to. As has been noted, there's a whole new ethic out there on the course now, and it just isn't one I can relate to very well. Winning is everything, and not LOSING is even MORE important. Same for the gridiron, roundball, and most everything else. Golf CAN still be played according to the ethics and ways I hold dear, and baseball can unless you get a smart-axxed pitcher throwing at your head.

Sheesh! Whatever happened to good ol' fashioned "sportsmanship????" I doubt the "young lions" can even spell it, much less DO it.