Bought me a Lyman 450

[FergusonTO35]

Like alot of folks I find that my casting and reloading time is increasingly stretched thin. Pan lubing and then pushing the slugs through the Lee sizer works just fine but just takes too much time. So I bought a Lyman 450 from GB that looks to be in really nice shape. The seller says it is in perfect working condition and ready to work, has a .357 die installed in it. I downloaded the Lyman 4500 manual from their website, which also includes the parts list for the 450. Anything I need to know about his machine? I'm probably going to leave it set up to size .357 with 50/50 alox-beeswax for 9mm and .38 Special.

120616

[BruceB]

Check the ACTUAL diameter of bullets after sizing in the .357 die. I have many Lyman dies, and they do tend to vary a bit from what is marked on the die. It can be a roll-of-the-dice situation.

Also, when sizing, only turn that pressure wrench enough to lubricate ONE bullet at a time, i.e.: don't crank hard on the pressure in hopes of lubing several bullets before using the pressure wrench again. This reduces the chances of making a mess with lube escaping where it shouldn't.

I like the 450, and have a couple of them with no intentions of changing. After you become familiar with the machine, you will find it to be very good for its intended uses.

[Beagle333]

Also, when sizing, only turn that pressure wrench enough to lubricate ONE bullet at a time, i.e.: don't crank hard on the pressure in hopes of lubing several bullets before using the pressure wrench again. This reduces the chances of making a mess with lube escaping where it shouldn't.

BIG +1 on that. That is probably the number one frustration of new luber users. :cool:

[FergusonTO35]

Thanks alot. I will remember to go easy on the lube. I already have a Lyman .357 die so I 'spose I will try boolits from both dies and use the one that works best. I use soft lubes for my pistol boolits like 50/50. Do you find that the heater is really necessary? Also, is it a pain to switch lubes without using up all that is already in the machine? If so I'll probably just keep pan lubing my rifle boolits until I get another sizer to keep filled with rifle lube.

[Wayne Smith]

If you have it out in the garage in the winter you may need the heater. I use Ben's Red, Speed Green, and Emmerts in the house and haven't had to use one yet. That has been over the last about ten years!

[BruceB]

My "heater" is a rectangular piece of 1/8" aluminum plate about four inches by ten inches. The machine is bolted down with the plate underneath it, extending out to the back.

An old travel iron (any clothes iron will do) is set at its lowest temperature and placed on the plate.

If this is too much heat, just unplug the iron for a while. Experience will quickly inform you about how to use the set-up. For lube-sizers without provision for a heater, this works well....and it can be a LOT cheaper than buying a heater.

[FergusonTO35]

Ooh, I like that idea!

[GP100man]

Good loobers when ya learn the lobe pressure thing , I have 2 450s with different loobes .

I put the updated handle toggle kits on mine , a bit stronger & less handle travel .
1 of mine is worn a bit, the shaft wobbles a bit but still works ok on the shorter handgun type boolits.

Here`s a pic of the kit & the new toggle system, when I ordered em from Lyman I think they were under 20 bucks.

http://i746.photobucket.com/albums/xx110/GP100man/102_0564-1.jpg (http://s746.photobucket.com/user/GP100man/media/102_0564-1.jpg.html)

[C.F.Plinker]

Some leak out the bottom of the reservoir where the screw rod comes through. Consider making a thin gasket out of a coffee can lid to go between the bottom of the sizer and the bench top.

[FergusonTO35]

Good idea, I'll be sure to do that.

[GP100man]

I used a cereal box to make my gaskets ,ya can see it in the pic.

[FergusonTO35]

The 450 showed up today and I mounted it to the bench in record time due to laying out the bolts and drill bit last night. Yeah, I was a little eager. To my delight it had a .358 die installed rather than a .357 (which I already have). It also had a top punch installed. The machine was filled with a black, rubbery lube that probably would make a good hi-temp gasket material. I removed the die, pumped it out, and refilled with 60/40 alox-beeswax.

I had read the instructions and watched some videos beforehand so I kind of understood the procedure. There was a learning curve still, as I needed to establish the right depth in the die. The remnants of the old lube periodically clogging up the works didn't help matters. Still, after a couple of hours of practice I was turning out boolits at least as good, often better, than my previous pan lube efforts.

[Beagle333]

Excellent! Start saving for that Star now. :drinks:

[FergusonTO35]

Hmm, been reloading for 10 years now, casting for four, just got my first used Lyman today. At this rate a Star will make a nice retirement present!!

[Slow Elk 45/70]

well some times a feller has to bide his time and save his dimes and nickels for his next toy , now you know how hard you have to work at it.....IMHO:cbpour:[smilie=s:

[FergusonTO35]

Oh, I'm still waiting for the thousands of dollars in savings I'm supposed to enjoy by casting and reloading to show up. I probably spend 10X as much on shooting now than when I was buying factory ammo!!

[shoot-n-lead]

Oh, I'm still waiting for the thousands of dollars in savings I'm supposed to enjoy by casting and reloading to show up. I probably spend 10X as much on shooting now than when I was buying factory ammo!!

Well, apparently you do not shoot much bigbore, then. It does not take long to recoup money...at $50 per box for factory ammo. I shoot several thousand rounds per year and my little bit of stuff paid for itself in a year...and I could sell it at any time and get my money back as it was nearly all bought used.

[Wayne Smith]

You don't see the thousand's of dollars that you save because you don't spend it on shooting. If you were still shooting factory you would have dropped your shooting by 90% or increased your spending by a like percentage. My wife was amazed at the cost of ammo and no longer complained at the cost of powder and primers!

[FergusonTO35]

A mild .45-70 is as big bore as I get. I don't shoot it much but yes, there are pretty significant savings there. Mostly I stick with .38 Special, 9mm, and .30 WCF.

Question: in order for the lube sizer to work properly,the boolits have to be large enough to where the die is actually swaging them down, correct? My 450 has a .357 die in it. Last night I ran some .38 Special boolits through it and got pretty good results for never doing it before. Lube grooves were mostly filled, minimal mess. Today I ran some 9mm boolits through it that, if the planets align properly, drop at .357. I kept getting a plug of lube on the bottom of the boolit and precious little in the groove. Adjusted it up and down, varied the amount of force applied to the lube, even cleaned the machine and die out with hot water and put in a fresh stick of 50-50 lube. No change. I'm thinking these boolits are not contacting the inside of the die well enough to seal the sides and only allow the lube to flow into the groove. Does this sound correct? I have a .312 die for trade for a .356 if anyone is interested (posted in the swapping and selling forum).

[Beagle333]

Question: in order for the lube sizer to work properly,the boolits have to be large enough to where the die is actually swaging them down, correct? My 450 has a .357 die in it. Today I ran some 9mm boolits through it that, if the planets align properly, drop at .357. I kept getting a plug of lube on the bottom of the boolit and precious little in the groove. I'm thinking these boolits are not contacting the inside of the die well enough to seal the sides and only allow the lube to flow into the groove. Does this sound correct?

If I get a lump of lube under the boolit, it is usually because I relaxed at the bottom of the stroke and didn't keep pressure on the boolit until I started the up stroke and that allowed the luber to push some lube under the boolit and raise it off the stem (the "I" part of the die) before I started up with it. Especially with short boolits, such as the 9mm, you don't have as many lube grooves as you have holes in the die and so one of the holes is lining up with the bottom of the boolit and squeezing in there on the bottom of the stroke.

The boolit doesn't have to be as big as the die to work properly. I can lube a boolit that is as much as .002" under the die size and it will still work fine if I don't get crazy with the temp and the pressure.

[FergusonTO35]

Ok, thanks. So how would I go about determining the proper depth to put the boolit in the die?

[FergusonTO35]

I think I'm finally getting the hang of it. Looks like the key is to not turn the ratchet much, and run each boolit two or three times if necessary. I was lubing the 9mm boolits with the .357 die and getting pretty good results by doing this.

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

pre heating the boolits helps sometimes

[GP100man]

The trick to using a 450 is to warm the loobe just enuff so ya don`t have to use a lot of pressure .
It`s a learnin curve with every different lobe, too cold it`ll be stiff & won`t fill grooves comepletely & by the time ya got enuff pressure you`ll be taxing the pressure screw too much & may snap it in two (been there done that)

Too warm & you`ll have loobe coming from everywhere with the slightest turn of the pressure screw!!

I start at 90f (I use a temp gun) & go from there, I think the warmest of any loobes was Lymans Orange Magic at 125f, usually the harder the lube the higher the temp needed.

Now ,boolit depth , I start high in the die (a lot of nose stikin out) & go downuntil I get good fill of the grooves & none squirting under the base , sometimes this depth thing can try your patience!!!

Sometimes this adjustment can be as little as 1/16 turn !!

http://i746.photobucket.com/albums/xx110/GP100man/102_1260.jpg (http://s746.photobucket.com/user/GP100man/media/102_1260.jpg.html)

[FergusonTO35]

Thanks. I used it some more over the weekend and had good results. It is filled with 50/50 which is pretty soft and works well for my pistol rounds. I find that the first dozen or so boolits usually need to go through a couple of times due to gaps in the lube ring. After that, I find that I get good fill by giving the ratchet a very small turn just to take up the little bit of slack after each boolit. Towards the end of the lube session I run a few through it without using the ratchet. The built up pressure will lube those boolits and less lube will sneak out of the top of the die. I think I'm getting the hang of it!

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

It sure sounds like it.

Again, I'll recommend pre-heating the boolits...especially with a softer lube like 50-50.
WHY you might ask ?
Well, While the warm boolit will come out of the sizer a bit more tacky at first, the surface of the Lube ring will actually skin over quicker and be less tacky 10 minutes later, making them less messy to handle while reloading than the boolits where I don't pre-heat the boolits when sizing.
that's me 2¢
Jon