Ed’s Red with Bio-D instead of Kerosene

[wtr100]

Brother in Law has access to 100% bio-diesel (he brews it professionally). He’s recently taken up IPSC shooting thus he’s burning througha lot of ammo. He's finally taken my advice and using Ed’s Red to clean with.

Not having kerosene and having gallons of bio-d to play withhe mixed it with bio-d in place of k-1. Interesting thing , bio-d is ‘known’for its ability to clean fuel systems. It’s said to clean to the point it plugsfuel filters on vehicles when you switch over. He runs cast bullets with red–dot powder reloads so his pistols are nasty dirty . His modified Ed’s (so he’ll stop using mine)seems to cut the ‘stuff’ out even better.

Somewhat useless info but we’re gun guys – we love uselessinfo right?

[dondiego]

Where is a source for biodiesel?

[wtr100]

Where is a source for biodiesel?

In IL B20 (20%) is common at gas stations - BIL works at a place that converts their used fryer oil - hundreds and hundreds of gallons into Bio-D for use in their delivery trucks so that's where he gets his B100

I bet B20 would work as well but would stink to high heaven ... course with the acetone you might not notice ...

[bruce381]

Bio is way more solventey than normal kerosene and IMHO would make a better cleaner.

[bruce drake]

Does the BIL's pistols smell like French fries after he's done shooting ;)

[MtGun44]

I wouldn't try it, but it's your gun.

Bill

[161]

Do what you want. But I know over here in Iowa some farmers found that Bio-Diesel AKA soybean oil is corrosive. Melted the rubber fuel lines off the older equipment. And the hose off the fuel storage tank over time.

[GhostHawk]

Diesel and BioDiesel have always been corrosive to rubber, its the solvents in them for cleaning. But rubber is quite different from steel.

I was looking at the ed's red thread one day.
And I'm kind of shaking my head, acetone? Nuh uh, Kerosine? Nope, don't think so.

S0 I grabbed a jelly jar with a lid, filled it half full of Dextron III ATF. Then for even more cleaning action I added about a 1 oz shot of GooGone to the 3-4 oz of ATF, shook well.

Then I started cleaning my guns with this.

A The Mosin Nagant barrel that I thought was clean after several Hoppes #9 patch's came out dirty for about 9 more patch's with this stuff.
Alternating a wet patch with a couple of dry ones. When they quit coming out grey I looked, instead of the bore being dull gray like it has been. Now it is a shining silver path almost too bright to look at. (Well I liked that)

Then I took apart an old .22lr single action Heritage, cleaned the cylinder with a fluffy pipe cleaner, same for the barrel. Each part got a thin film then wiped dry. Man I could almost not believe it, it took much less force to cock the hammer, cylinder clicks easily around and locks into place. It "Sounds" different, and a month later, it is still holding.

This stuff is very slippery, seems to be a very good cleaning agent, doesn't seem to harm stock finish. A little goes a LONG way.
I love the way that you can wipe it on, then off, but it acts like there is still a layer there. You can't see it, but you can feel it.

[wtr100]

Do what you want. But I know over here in Iowa some farmers found that Bio-Diesel AKA soybean oil is corrosive. Melted the rubber fuel lines off the older equipment. And the hose off the fuel storage tank over time.


BIL was over last night and I asked about Bio-D and corrosion. He says that's poor manufacturing processes. Over beers I got a quick lesson in Bio-D quite interesting actually. Seems all you need is fat, in his case used fryer oil. The company he works for makes fried snacks.

Anyway you need fat, methyl alcohol, and lye. The lye and alcohol is mixed forming a really nasty dangerous 'stuff'.

Then the fat is added and blended and warmed slightly and allowed to 'cook'. At the end of the reaction you get a layer of bio-d and a layer of very powerful soap.

I guess the real trick is here - you need to separate the bio-d from the soap. If your mix isn't quite right or you do it too fast you can end up with traces of lye or alcohol in the 'fuel' and this is likely what could attack hoses and such.

I've never smelled his guns but I guess they'd smell like potato chips if anything. His Ed's smells more like acetone than mine does.

I rather like Ed's - we had rifles at summer camp Old Marlin 880's with 30-40k rounds each in them. The range officer was reporting a lot of misfires the first week of camp and he wondered if it was the Aquila ammo or if the spring in them were just getting weak.

During my Saturday cleaning I usually dunk the bolt in Ed's let the stuff drip out in an old cake pan while I tend to the bore and such. Anyway after a few bolts I noticed some brown guck in the bottom of the pan. But we went back to the normal 5 or so misfires in a week, out of 8,000 or so rounds. My guess is during the spring and fall weekend shoots they were sprayed with rem-oil or clip or something before storage.

Googone and ATF does sound like a nice spouse friendly cleaner for indoor use ...

[Moonie]

It's the methanol in the Bio that eats the older rubber hoses. Nothing made since the mid '90's should have an issue.

[wtr100]

It's the methanol in the Bio that eats the older rubber hoses. Nothing made since the mid '90's should have an issue.


sounds like properly executed bio-d should have no methanol remaining

[Pinsnscrews]

I was looking at the ed's red thread one day.
And I'm kind of shaking my head, acetone? Nuh uh, Kerosine? Nope, don't think so.

S0 I grabbed a jelly jar with a lid, filled it half full of Dextron III ATF. Then for even more cleaning action I added about a 1 oz shot of GooGone to the 3-4 oz of ATF, shook well.

Then I started cleaning my guns with this.


*Snicker*

Product Name: Goo Gone – 3 oz. Product Code(S): 1647, 1649, 1650
Date: 12-12-12
Distributed By: THE HOMAX GROUP INC.
1835 Barkley Blvd, Suite 101.
Bellingham, WA, 98226
Business Phone: 1-800-729-9029
Transportation Emergencies: CALL CHEMTREC AT 1-800-424-9300


CHEMICAL:Hydrotreated light distillates CAS NUMBER 64742-47-8 WEIGHT:90% to 95%


Looking up the CAS number 64742-47-8 comes up with:
Low odor paraffinic solvent
Dearomatized kerosine
Deodorized kerosene

:kidding:

[MaryB]

But goo gone smells like oranges anyway... 8-)

[Moonie]

sounds like properly executed bio-d should have no methanol remaining

And perfect combustion should only put out CO2 and water... What happens on paper and what happens in real life can be two different things.

[bruce381]

It's the methanol in the Bio that eats the older rubber hoses. Nothing made since the mid '90's should have an issue.

100% correcta mundo

[MtGun44]

The MSDS says 5% of goo gone is limonene citrus
solvent that is pretty effective, and it also has tripropylene
glycol methyl ether. This is reported as having good results
when "high polymer solvency and extended system residence
time are required. Limonene is a really impressive solvent, too,
and does a really good job of dissolving nasty stuff, even working
as a paint stripper and removing old oil.

The idea of mixing Goo Gone with ATF is pretty good. I think I
may give this a try, excellent lubrication and solvency combo.

Bill

[Dusty Bannister]

One of the advantages mentioned was for long term storage protection of Ed's Red by adding lanolin to the blend. One of the disadvantages was the use of "gas Pump" kerosene which contained some moisture which allowed corrosion. One concern about Bio-d might be the presence of moisture in the fuel. Is there any method to determine if moisture is present or not?

[GhostHawk]

Mtgun44, it is REALLY slippery, and seems to do a great job of cleaning.

I really should probably figure out a test so I can find what is the best ratio.

I guess I just didn't see the point in thinning it down. I like it concentrated.

I also need a new bottle of googone and I really should make notes of amounts.

Still if your curious throw 3-4 shot glasses of Dextron 2 or 3 (3 is IMO better, but if you have 2 in the garage, why use it)
And a single shot of googone, put it all in suitable container (glass jelly jar for me) with a screw top lid.

I dunked about an inch of a big fuzzy pipe cleaner and cleaned/oiled 4 guns with that.

What I really like is how you can wipe everything dry with a clean cotton towel, reassemble the gun,and you can feel working the action that there is a microscopic layer of slippery stuff doing its magic.

[Elkins45]

ATF even by itself is some pretty good stuff. I have a user serviceable silencer that I shoot with plain based bullets in 300 blackout. It's a monocore and after about 150 rounds the core is pretty filthy and jammed in there pretty tight. I find that if I let it soak in a jar of ATF and mineral spirits for a while it is much easier to tap out the core. Adding some citrus solvent would likely make it even better.

[tomme boy]

Go over to The Cast Bullet Association forum and ask Ed himself. He is on that sight daily.

[wiljen]

My concern is there is no single substance that is "Bio-Diesel". It can be any of multiple oils from plants, animal fats, algae etc... This also means it can be produced in a number of different methods with differing types and concentrations of acid contanimates from the manufacturing process. Without knowing the exact composition of the Bio-Diesel being used and the concentrations of acids left in it during the refinement process I would be hesitant to use it in anything that touched my guns.

I make a cross between Dr. Hudson's, Ed's Red and Hatchers No. 18 Original formula.

1 Part Methyl-Ethyl Ketone (More aggressive than Acetone on plastics for shotshell cleaning and evaporates slower than Acetone)
1 Part Kerosene
1 Part Dexron Mercon V Automatic Transmission fluid (Combination of lightweight oil and multiple detergents)
1 Part Turpentine
1/8 part Lanolin

[abunaitoo]

Dextron is the ATF recomended, but has anyone tried any of the other ATF's??????
GooGone mix sounds interesting.