First Night of Casting for the first time ever, with results, and a Question

[Pinsnscrews]

Finally had a chance to set up the pot...or so I thought. I have a 4lb minimag that I intend to use just for pure. I needed to cast up a round for doing a pound cast. I figured a good way to break in the mold, break in the pot etc. Sadly, the outlet I had intended on using...failed.

Not to be denied, I broke out the cast iron pot I had gotten for smelting and threw it on the propane burner. I don't have a thermometer for it yet. So this was in essence a practice run.

(had just set the ladle in the melt to finish heating it up for stirring. The ladle had been situated like the mold to make sure it was dry)
http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c167/wyckedflesh/Mobile%20Uploads/A41816C1-BD71-49EF-B8D3-BEDFB466DF4E_zpscris5iif.jpg

Yes, that is correct, I dove into casting using a Lee Bator .225-55 mold as my first one...
I think they came out very well!
http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c167/wyckedflesh/Mobile%20Uploads/C334F602-AAD5-4CD9-9564-927D5E42C198_zpsqtxop0en.jpg

Until I put them under 10x magnification :lol:
http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c167/wyckedflesh/Mobile%20Uploads/8A8E4540-8DDB-4DD0-AD7D-3C0F2DBCFB5A_zpspmjknd3b.jpg

Each one has a wrinkle in the finish. I wasn't sure if that burner was going to be able to put out enough heat to get the job done.

I will say though, after being here as long as I have before casting, reading what people have to say about mold prep, cleaning from brand new for casting, lubing the sprue plate, etc...DOING what they said to do, I had enough confidence to proceed. The mold prep was spot on. Washed with brake clean the day it arrived, washed with Dawn before using the first time. Set it near the flame to completely dry out. Put LLA on a q-tip, and dabbed it around the sprue plate screw. Made sure to keep it from falling into the cavities. Not smoking the mold. Setting the mold to heat up, and make sure it was hot before casting. Heating up the ladle to make sure it didn't have any water before putting it in the melt. Mixing the flux (ground walnut shells as I was not sure how clean & pure the lead really was), and then WALKING AWAY for 20 mins. Skimming the melt. It worked. I was able to get into a good rhythm. Took very little effort to open the sprue. No effort to get the bullets to drop from the mold. For pure, it looks like I got good fill out, even though "I" think the melt was a little low on temp.

Now to the question that is plaguing me...
About 3/4 of the way through the session, I started getting crustiness on top of the melt. In a last ditch effort, I fluxed again. What I got is this...
http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c167/wyckedflesh/Mobile%20Uploads/C26966B1-72A9-4CE3-A83D-66E132731142_zpsa5mlrkei.jpg

The "Greenish" powder is what came out. I mixed the walnut shells into the melt, and walked away for a few minutes. When I came back, rather than the dark black burnt crust I got the first time I put in flux, I had that Greenish powder with the flecks of walnut shells. I realised then, my burner was getting cooler, and the melt temp was really starting to drop, so I tried to cast a couple more, but the ladle was sticking to the sprue plate on the second cavity. So I shut it down for the night until I get a new bottle of propane, and look to see if I can up the temp on the burner. But what I am confused about is the Greenish shade to the scum I skimmed off the top of the melt. The grey skim was from earlier when I first fluxed.

Edit: My son took video of me casting; my wrinkles are from the mold being too cold, I see from the video, I needed to stick to a solid 10 count. The mold was cooling off to much between pours.

[wv109323]

Where did the lead come from ? What was it's supposed content?

[Pb2au]

Typically a wrinkle is an indicator of either low mold temp or dirty mold.
For peace of mind, re-wash the mold in super hot water and your dish soap. As for lubing with alox, I don't have a dog in that fight as I do not use it. I've always been paranoid of it migrating where I do not want it. I use anti seize in a very tiny amount.
as for mold temp, increase your casting tempo. Get a nice rhythm going and no stopping for lolly gagging around, gawking at boolits or goofing off. Just cast!

[Pinsnscrews]

Pb2au, gawking at my fresh cast boolits was a definite problem LOL

wv109323: The lead was received as part of a trade. The person provided it from their "Pure" lead stash. I believe the ingot may have been part of a diving or ballast rig. It is soft enough as is to easily scratch with a fingernail. It was a bit dusty, and as I mention, the first flux produced the wonderful gray pile at the top of the photo, so I feel safe in believing that something I introduced caused the greenish skim to show up.

I am wondering if the cast "iron" pot I picked up from Goodwill was not as good a quality as I first suspected. It is too heavy to be a cast aluminum, almost as heavy as the slightly larger cast iron skillet I have had for a long time. This was brand new, obviously never used and part of a set. I had wanted to get the entire set as it would have given me 3 sizes of smelting pots, the one I chose was in the middle, and can easily hold 15-20lbs of lead.

BTW: the boolits dropped at 52gr +/-.2gr, and measured .224 +/- .001(calipers not a mic as the calipers were at hand, and the mic was safely put away)

[captaint]

Well, I think Pb2au got it right, at least about the wrinkles. A little more heat in the mold and the melt. I've never seen anything quite like the green gook. What's that other stuff above the green gook ?? Looks like dross of some kind. I would probably try melting the "uglies" separately just to see what develops. Decent first effort, though. Better than my first.....

[Tallbald]

Pinsnscrews I won't offer technical advise yet because I'm still very new too. I cast my first ever bullets about 2 1/2 weeks ago. Mine were 125 grain round nose flat point .358 for our .38 Specials and .357's. I too had wrinkles but folks here helped me beyond measure. My issue also stemmed from me having only pure lead from roofing materials. As you progress in this skill set casting bullets be careful (grins here). You may get sucked in with little hope for return. No exaggeration: I now enjoy casting, scrounging metal (still looking for WW) and making ingots that I can stack like treasure almost as much as the shooting.
Those are handsome bullets you've made. You made something really nice, practical and useful! Don

[Harter66]

I have had a more gold cast to the skim "dust/powder", my reading here in some rather obscure page 5 threads suggest that it is sulfur in bulk but with many other oxides stuck to it. I have melted out several hundred pounds of lead seals (also known as anti-tamper seals )and skimmed as much as 40% loss of of a fresh batch an table spoons out of 2nd runs . I believe that it is atmospheric contact more than bad alloy , many of the seals have been all over the world since application 30 yr ago. I would guess that you have something similar with the dive weights. I have a few that are just stacked up an I can see junk in and on them much like the seals have. I even get the garbage from aircraft billit lead from counter balances . It may be green from the walnut shell also ,it that chemistry stuff ,I don't know but just barely enough to know how stupid look.

[bangerjim]

If you are planning on shooting those at full rifle speeds thru an AR, your pure lead (~5Bhn) is too soft. For rifle boolits I always stay in the 14+Bhn range and powder coat them for added protection. You may spend a considerable amount of time mining that soft lead out of your barrel. You need some Sb-bearing alloy to get the hardness up. Pencil test if you do not own a hardness tester yet.

Wrinkles are caused by probably NO Sn in your mix!!!!! Pure Pb will wrinkle like crazy. Get some solder/pewter/Sn and add 2%. Will give you great fill-out. Grease & oil in your cavities do not cause wrinkles...........cold mold/cold melt/low Sn causes wrinkles. Preheat your mold to CASTING TEMP on a hotplate...easiest way to do it. You have no temp control over an open flame.

Not knowing your melt temp, you can easily oxidize any Sn that might have actually been in there out! Hence the "stuff" on the top. That "pure" Pb you got must have something else in it. Sn adds little hardness in the % ranges we use. I have seen that green (and other colors too) stuff when the mix is waaaaay to hot. Get yourself a casting thermometer if you are not using an electric pot like a Lee 4-20 which controls (roughly) the temp for you. Heating over an open flame can get too hot real fast. And will burn off any future Sn you put in there!

Better yet, get yourself a Lee 4-20 bottom pour electric pot. You will not be sorry. Propane is very pricy these days!

banger

[Wayne Smith]

1) if you are gonna keep using that burner (it is similar to what I use) hook it up to a 20 lb bottle. Lasts a whole lot longer.
2) I concur, that is way too soft for shooting out of anything but a BP gun or a 38 Special target load. You need a much harder alloy for that boolit
3) Yes, you are ambitious, starting with the .22. Look at it this way, everything else will be easy!
4) Invest in a $10-20 hot plate (flat top or put an old saw blade on it) and use that to pre-heat your mold. Works great and your mold is hot right at the beginning.
5) for a .22 boolit I'd bet a 10 count is way too long. 200gr .45HP's go for a three or four count past the sprue hardening.

[Pinsnscrews]

These were not cast to be shot (though I may experiment and paper patch the batch for fun), they were cast for making Pound Castings of the barrel chamber for an 8" TC Contender in .222 Rem. I just thought it would be a good practice run. I did not expect complete fill out as I had read that Pure does not flow well enough for sharp edges and corners. This was more an exercise in doing, and getting a feel for what to expect to go along with all the reading. I was pleased with how well the boolits dropped, seemingly to jump from the mold as soon as I opened it and rarely having to tap softly at the hinge bolt for them to drop at all. The whole time I truly expected to toss the entire batch back into the pot full of voids/defects, minus one for the pound cast .

Tallbald, I am right there with you and have followed your threads to see if there was anything else I could pick up. Was just waiting for good day to cast that was south of 100F.

I have about 4 new molds of more reasonable sizes (.358, .401/.410) for a .357 Herrett and a 10mm on my Midsouth wishlist (.410 to be sized down to match bore/groove of the 10mm barrel) I have about 10 lbs of range scrap, and I traded another person for another 20-30lbs of WW, which is just waiting for me to pick it up.

Right now I need to catch up on a few bills before I can invest in another pot. I was coming to the end of my 20lb propane tank last night, and actually ended up just killing it with burgers today.

BTW: The Walnut Shells are all natural, untreated, Animal Bedding. No extra additives or preservatives.

[Pb2au]

The crud you dredged out of your pot could be a lot of things, but in the end, I believe it is just crud. Not knowing what your original lead source is, it could just have been dirty, and that is the result from your fluxing. I wouldn't lose any sleep over it.
I forgot to add to my original response, keep an eye open in the local thrift stores for a hot plate. They can make a very useful preheater for molds. If you eventually get a 6 cavity mold, those can be frustrating to get up to temp, so a little pre heat can help.

[Pinsnscrews]

I have been doing that, but, I live 3 blocks from Sun City, so to find a Goodwill that isn't already picked over by the Seniors for items like that, I have to go across town. I try and hit them when the doors open on Half Off Saturdays, which is where I got the pot for smelting.

[Harter66]

Walnut shells were once boiled for dye and ink I believe, yellow and blue make green .

[Leadmelter]

I have that mold and here is what I did with it and got good bullets:
Washed it with HOT water/dawn.
Cleaned with acetone every cavity
Inspected the cavity with a head lop and removed any burrs.
Preheat the mold 3-5 times and let it air cool.
Set your pot hot and preheat the mold on medium with a hot plate
Put on some good tunes and cast like crazy. once things look good (10-15 pours), reduce the heat and cast at steady pace.
The bullets will add up in a hurry and after 1.5-2 hrs, you should have a nice pile to inspect and use.
Just my experience
Good Luck
Leadmelter

[WyrTwister]

When I begin using a new Lee mold , I turn my melting pot to max temp and cast as fast as I can , to break it in . When it gets broken in , I turn the temp down as far as I can and still get good bullets .

Get a plastic 5 gallon bucket and fill it mostly full of water . Watch the lead on top of the sprue plate . When it solidifies and turn frosty , cut the sprue and drop the bullets directly into the water . Examine a few to make sure they are OK . Then procede casting , rapidly .

God bless
Wyr

[WRideout]

Walnut shells were once boiled for dye and ink I believe, yellow and blue make green .
I think it's the green ones with the outer husk still on; that's what trappers use to boil steel traps with.

Wayne