Fluxing the Alloy

[SharpsShooter]

I'm sure most of us have a favorite substance for fluxing the alloy of choice. I use paraffin wax myslf with good results. I'm just curious what the rest of you use and what your method might be.

Regards

:-D

[waksupi]

My favorite flux, is a piece of dry dowel. You can scrape the inside of the post with it, and stir through the entire mix, rather than just putting something on top to float around. I have a hard time thinking you can stir any wax or light substance efficiently into a pot of lead, with a considerably higher specific gravity.
If it is carbon based, it will work.

[SharpsShooter]

My favorite flux, is a piece of dry dowel. You can scrape the inside of the post with it, and stir through the entire mix, rather than just putting something on top to float around. I have a hard time thinking you can stir any wax or light substance efficiently into a pot of lead, with a considerably higher specific gravity.
If it is carbon based, it will work.


waksupi,

That's a new trick on me. I don't believe I have run across anyone doing it in that manner. I agree on the stirring. I usually toss a clump of wax on top of the melt and stir with my skimming spoon, scraping the sides at the same time to bring all the crud to the top. Occasionally, it will flare up when i'm stirring. Anyone else have similar experience?

[imashooter2]

My favorite flux, is a piece of dry dowel. You can scrape the inside of the post with it, and stir through the entire mix, rather than just putting something on top to float around. I have a hard time thinking you can stir any wax or light substance efficiently into a pot of lead, with a considerably higher specific gravity.
If it is carbon based, it will work.

I do the same thing, but rub the dowel with a candle stub first. Belt and suspenders don't you know...

[stocker]

I use strips of dry white oak left over from shop projects. About the size of a paint stirrer. Chars up evenly and introduces some carbon to the melt which appears to do the job nicely. Residual carbon comes off with the skim and leaves nice clean metal. I know some people use hardwood sawdust rather than kitty litter as a top coat which would also seem to be a continuous source of carbon provided the metal isn't so hot as to cause a flare up. Haven't tried that myself.

[David R]

I use reject lubed boolits, or some boolit lube and a small handfull of corncob from the tumbler. I light it before it ignites and gets my attention. I am going to try the dowel thing, It sounds like a good idea. Where do you find hardwood dowels? :)

David

[Cliff]

Flux used in melting lead and lead alloys help clean the impurities out of the metal by acting as a wetting agent to the melt. Best I have found is straight Cannuba Wax in flake form. Only takes a little bit but does a great job. The wax or paraffin is pretty good. If you don't mind rust, Sal Ammoniac is probably the greatest but I guarantee the fumes will rust up a shop pretty fast, nasty stuff. You can overflux your melt and it makes casting difficult if you use too much. Good Luck.

[waksupi]

David, any hardware store. I also use old broken ramrods.

[David R]

Marvelux,

I would not use it in your melting pot! It leaves some kind of resadue on everything. That resadue holds moisture. I tried it, the next time I put my ladle in the pot for the first time, It made bubbles and rumbles in the lead. Same with my stirring/skimming spoon.

If you really want to try it, I have a can , only used Once!

David

[1Shirt]

David R, Agree with you on Marvalux. Also tried it once, very similar results. I didn't save mine, but tossed it in file 13. I use a pea size lump of beeswax and a little sawdust, light off the fumes and stur as I scrape the sides. Have been doing it that way for over 30 years. However this old dog is not reluctant to trying new tricks, so will give the stick method a try.
1Shirt

[David R]

I had some firewood laying by the pot, so I grabbed a good sized "splinter" of sugar maple. It was about 16" long, tapered from 4" sort of rectangular all the way down to a point. I stuck it in the hot pot, and it bubbled some. I stirred with it, pulled it out charred.

Next I fluxed the pot the regular way and stirred with the new stick. The whole piece was starting to flame, so I gave up. Gonna buy a nice dry dowel and try that. It sure smelled good!

David

[waksupi]

David, if you had added parrafin, you in effect made a candle, the stick being the wick. It sounds like your first go-round was right on, as the stick should char as it is being used. May as well use what you have.

[Wayne Smith]

I put the wax (old candle wax, I occasionally make candles) in the Lyman dipper, turn it upside down and insert it in the pot. Stir this around a little, the wax comes out the pour spout and runs through the melt.

Seemed logical to me.

[brimic]

I had a lead explosion once using Marvelux, fluxed a pot, did some casting, added more lead, used the same spoon to dump more marvellux in, blammo- there's lead splatter everywhere. :mad:

I have a 5 gallon bucket of sawdust- thrown a handful in, push it under and stir.

[El Pistolero]

I use beeswax or paraffin. Then a blowtorch to burn off any residue.
Usually end up with and ash. FWIW, I can only get rid of non-metal impurities.
I use a cast iron pot for melting. Anybody know how to clean one of them things?

El Pistolero

[jpb]

I use beeswax or paraffin. Then a blowtorch to burn off any residue.
Usually end up with and ash. FWIW, I can only get rid of non-metal impurities.
I use a cast iron pot for melting. Anybody know how to clean one of them things?

El Pistolero

Well, I hesistate to answer because my experience is so limited compared to many other here, but...

The old caster that helped get me started recommended filling the pot with water and a spoonful of laundry detergent (he liked Tide). Bring it to a boil, then give the pot a scrub with a brush with a handle like one might use for doing the dishes.

Before he told me this method, I was using a wire brush on a portable drill. More work, and I wonder if I exposed myself to breathing in lead dust because of it!

I've had good luck doing the boiling water-Tide thing, but I will keep checking back to see other suggestions.

Good luck,

John

[felix]

Use TSP, tri-sodium-phosphate, instead. Use rubber gloves. ... felix

[Tigger]

I'm glad someone brought up the pot cleaning. I just got a plumbers pot from my uncle. It's cast iron, abour 8" in diameter and 6" deep. Not really rusty but dirty inside with small "flakes" (for lack of a better term) of lead. I was thinking I should clean it but was wondering what to use. The thought of glass bead blasting had crossed my mind. If I turned the air pressure down on the bead blaster it would leave a nice finish. Not really rough but not smooth either. Would this work?? I also got a Lyman 4 cavity 1# ingot mold from my FIL and it's in a little rougher shape. Would the bead blast finish let the ingots fall out??

I like the boiling soap idea, might try that first for the dirt but I don't think the rust will come off with out elbow grease or power. What's everybodys thoughts.

[No_1]

I'm glad someone brought up the pot cleaning. I just got a plumbers pot from my uncle. It's cast iron, abour 8" in diameter and 6" deep. Not really rusty but dirty inside with small "flakes" (for lack of a better term) of lead. I was thinking I should clean it but was wondering what to use. The thought of glass bead blasting had crossed my mind. If I turned the air pressure down on the bead blaster it would leave a nice finish. Not really rough but not smooth either. Would this work?? I also got a Lyman 4 cavity 1# ingot mold from my FIL and it's in a little rougher shape. Would the bead blast finish let the ingots fall out??

I like the boiling soap idea, might try that first for the dirt but I don't think the rust will come off with out elbow grease or power. What's everybodys thoughts.

I am by no means an expert on blasting but do know something since I have been around it for 20 years or so....

Blasting is a method for sure but I suggest much study before you commit to this process. We have many items "processed" for my work. Most processes start by blasting to "white metal". There are many different kinds of blast "media" available depending on the material to be processed. They range from very course stuff sometimes called "black diamond" or "black beauty" to very fine stuff such as baking soda or ash. We have used ash to effectively blast paint from very thin aluminum without warpage. Pressure plays a big part in the process. Too much and you warp, blast a hole in the piece or leave too much "profile" (this is the surface roughness of the finished part), too little and you spend all day with little progress. A heavy profile is not what you want on a mould or pot. Glass beads come in many sizes. Most people use pretty course glass to get the job done. What you want to do can be done but it is more than just turning down the pressure and holding a good distance from the part.

good luck,

[David R]

I would just clean it out with a wire brush or pot scrubber and not worry about it. Any rust will be gone after you melt the first batch anyhow. Once you flux the lead, it will clean the pot a little too.

My muffin tins drop better if they are rusty. I took a 12 size muffin tin out of the kitchen and poured lead ingots in it. Couldn't get the darn things out. If I had let it sit out in the rain, they would have fallen out. Instead I pried and chiseled them out and trashed the pan. Now I have another sitting out side waiting for mother nature to "season" it for my next big melt.

My RCBS 4 lb ingot mold is rusty and works great. Once I make a few ingots, the rust is mostly gone.

David

[rebliss]

I'm brand-new to casting, but after reading about smoking your bullet moulds, I just smoked my brand new RCBS Ingot Mould with a candle before pouring lead into it. The ingots fell right out with the slightest tap on the table top.

[felix]

rebliss, don't use any waxy/oily substance, or smoke from, in or around any boolit mold cavity. ... felix

[Maven]

Re: Pot cleaning. The simplest way to do this is to fill your cold, empty pot or furnace with boiling water, let it sit and then scrub it with a hand-held wire brush. Repeat as necessary until the pot/furnace is clean. When absolutely dry, I spray the inside & top surfaces with a heavy coat of of NAPA DGF 123 (2 light coats in reality), which seems to slow the build-up of deposits. You can do the same (boiling water too) to your ladle if you use one.

Re: Marvelux. All the things said about it are true, but the only deposit I get from it is on the sides of my Lee furnace, but boiling water takes care of that in short order. I use it religiously because I must cast indoors and because it does an excellent job of removing impurities from the melt. As for ladles, spoons attracting moisture because of it, there's a simple remedy: Either leave them in the melt as it cools (not my 1st choice), or better yet, put them on top of the cold metal so that it gradually heats (and dries out) to the same temp. you're going to cast at.

[rebliss]

rebliss, don't use any waxy/oily substance, or smoke from, in or around any boolit mold cavity. ... felix

Thanks for telling me about this. Just when I think I'm starting to understand something, I discover that I was wrong. Fortunately, I've not tried candle-smoking my boolit mould yet.

So, could I just use smoke from a wooden match on the boolit mould?

By the way, what is the reason to NOT use the candle-smoke on the boolit mould?

[David R]

Thanks for telling me about this. Just when I think I'm starting to understand something, I discover that I was wrong. Fortunately, I've not tried candle-smoking my boolit mould yet.

So, could I just use smoke from a wooden match on the boolit mould?

By the way, what is the reason to NOT use the candle-smoke on the boolit mould?

rebliss, I have been at this for 20 years, I am just starting to understand it too. The match or candle deposit an oily substance that your mold won't like. You want soot, or plain ol carbon. That is why I recomended the butane lighter. Any oil in your mold, be it wax, lube or what ever will make wrinkled boolits. I think the oil boils or burns when the 500 or 700 dagree lead hits it. It won't burn off though, so each and every boolit gets wrinkles in it. Stick matches have wax in them so they burn better.

Its hard to beat A NICE CLEAN mold.

[buck1]

I have loved to hate Marvelux. But I read the instructions last week!
It turns out ,you stir and scrape your pot down with out it. Then when the dross forms in the center , you add a little to the top of the pile, stir wile keeping it in the center, then skim it off. It should never touch anything but the center of the pot . If it does you are useing too much
Its not used like wax etc. I will retry it the right way and see how it works.
I bet most of us have been useing it wrong?..........Buck

[waksupi]

I'm brand-new to casting, but after reading about smoking your bullet moulds, I just smoked my brand new RCBS Ingot Mould with a candle before pouring lead into it. The ingots fell right out with the slightest tap on the table top.

I'd never considered smoking an ingot mold, as I've never had any problem with ingots coming out. Candle smoke won't hurt on the ingot mold, no critical measurements!

[454PB]

I'm with Maven on the Marvelux. I also cast indoors, and use it to eliminate the smoke. When used properly, it does the job. It is essential that your stiring spoon or ladle be pre-heated before use. I simply lay it on the surface of the melt for a few seconds.

[Walks]

I don't know what the blazes I'm doing right/wrong. I cover my ingot molds in Pennzoil when I'm done using them, then clean them dry with acetone to use them again. Flip 'em over on a concrete block and the ingots drop out straight away.

I drop a nickel size piece of candle into my old LYMAN dipper and stir it into a 20lb bottom pour. Stir it around and up, back in and light it. Keep stirring around and up for about 30seconds until the flame is out. Then skim the crud. My DAD taught me that way 50yrs ago. Have'nt changed yet .

[gwpercle]

And I thought I was the only person who still uses Marvelux !
If you use it correctly you wont have any problems. Most simply use too much.
I have no rusting in my shop. I also follow the Marvelux fluxing with a pinch cedar shavings, from the pencil sharpener, between the two , it works well.

There are 40 different ways to flux , they all will work just find a method, or combination of methods that gets your metal clean. When I started casting I read the NRA Bullet Casting Guide by Col. E. H Harrison and the man said Marvelux was best...so I went with his advice . I read the instructions, if you use small amounts, 1/2 teaspoon is plenty for a 20 pound pot and add a pinch of cedar shavings (1 teaspoon), stir well with a small wood paddle and skim you will be just fine.
Gary

[robg]

Candle wax /bullet lube then stir with a bit of wood ( learnt that here)skim off dross with a sundae spoon .

[RogerDat]

Old garage sale candles and wood chips and sawdust from table saw and planer. Known to be pine or hardwood, nothing with glue like plywood, or treated like deck wood. Have three bulk printing paper boxes of the wood so it will be awhile before I run out. This covers the big Dutch oven ingot smelting pot.

In the small electric bullet casting pot it is just bees wax to drive the tin & oxides back into the melt and a wood stir stick, literally a paint stir stick, I also have some shorter heavier ones cut from 2x4's that are 1.5 inches wide by about 1/8 inch thick or a little thinner. I crush any floating crud against the side with the stick and use a spoon to remove the remaining ash.

[lightman]

I use pine sawdust to flux. I throw a big handful on top of the melted lead and stir it in after it chars. Like the others, I stir in under and scrape the sides and bottom of the pot. I tried the Marvelux and did not like it.

I've cleaned my smelting pot with a cup brush on a hand grinder, wearing a dusk mask and standing with a large fan behind me. I'll remember the boiling water and soap trick.

I've bead blasted iron ingot molds before and had no problem with the mold releasing the ingot. I don't remember the grade of the beads but they were very fine, almost like baby powder.

[Swindler1]

Guess I'm just cheap :). I use the free kids crayons from Bob Evens.

[scottfire1957]

Surely this info is not included in the sticky thread above, entitled "fluxing techniques."

[RED BEAR]

it seems that i saw some where that it is best to use wax to combine the alloy elements and something along the lines of sawdust to remove impurities have been doing this with good results for a few years now