Things I learned at the range today...

[Love Life]

There I was, larger than life (as usual) at the rifle range. I as out shooting my Savage made Enfield No4 Mk1 and Fat Lady when I was engaged in conversation. During that conversation the following nuggets of wisdom were dropped on me:

A) The 7mm Mag only drops 24 inches at 1,000 yds
B) The No4 Mk1 was originally built as a 30-06 chambering, but when the British received their rifles from the U.S. they realized that they made a mistake and changed the order for the rest of the rifles to be chambered in .303 British.
C) The .243 Winchester runs out of juice around the 500 yd mark and will not make it to 1,000 yds. When stated that I shot the .243 to 1,00 yds accurately, and I pointed to my rifle on the bench chambered in .243, I was told that it only reached that far because I have a heavy barrel.
D) 7 inch groups at 50 yds are perfectly acceptable from an AR-15 because it is a "Battle Rifle"

Then the coup de grace occurred:

A man at the end of the line did 27 (I counted them) side straddle hops and then proceeded to do a mag dump at 25 yds from an AR-15 as fast as he could pull the trigger to simulate "Combat conditions" which I was then obliged to spend the next 10 minutes being schooled on combat conditions.

Then my favorite was the man "Zeroing" his deer rifle. A no BS, real deal, genuine paper plate was stapled on the backer at 100 yds. He then proceeded to run through 30 rds fired at the plate. No scope adjustment was made. He finally got one on the plate and declared the rifle zeroed for deer.

It was just unreal. It was like a play by play of range shenanigans. I still had fun though and the old Bullseye shooter who is the range master proceeded to throw the beat down on me shooting pistols. That man is good!!

[MT Gianni]

I hope that that was information attempted to teach to you rather than things you learned. Sad to say, the same "teachers" exist at most ranges this time of year.

[jcwit]

Thanks for posting that, one of the funniest things I've read on this forum in a long time.

[btroj]

So what you really learned is that idiots walk among us?

In 1984 when I was a college freshman I had two guy living next to me in the dorm. They had both just finished basic and were in the Army Guard. I learned from them that the M60 is 60 caliber, hence the name! I also learned that 5.56 ball ammo was called that because under the copper nose was a bunch of little balls.

Yep, we are surrounded.

[Love Life]

Thanks for posting that, one of the funniest things I've read on this forum in a long time.

I'm glad I brought a chuckle to your day. How are you lately?

I actually have been enjoying this range. I am doing my best to get half as good as the range master, but man do I have a long way to go.

Then it's off to the swamp to try and see alligators.

[koehlerrk]

The ballistic figures on the 7mm Mag are correct... if you're zeroed at 800 yards.

BTW, went and checked the zero on the three rifles I plan so have available for deer season this year. The Swiss K31 hits 3" high at 100, dead on at 200, and 3" low at 250. Sitting rifle is ready. Next, the 30-30 is dead on at 100, and 4" low at 150. Walking rifle is ready. Last up, the front stuffer with 90gr of FFF behind a patched round ball is zeroed at 100, hits 2" low at 150, and 8" low at 200. Muzzle loader is ready.

Seeing how 75% of the deer that I've taken have been 50 yards or less, 90% at 100 yards or less, yeah, I'm feeling pretty good about deer season. My biggest concern is my 14 year old daughter as it's her first season actually hunting. But, since she can put five 357 rounds from her little Marlin levergun into a 4 inch group at 100 yards, the biggest concern is whether or not she's psychologically ready to kill something. Won't know until the time arrives is my guess, but I'm hedging my bet in that she's more ready than she thinks she is.

That's what I learned at the range today.

[Love Life]

The ballistic figures on the 7mm Mag are correct... if you're zeroed at 800 yards.

BTW, went and checked the zero on the three rifles I plan so have available for deer season this year. The Swiss K31 hits 3" high at 100, dead on at 200, and 3" low at 250. Sitting rifle is ready. Next, the 30-30 is dead on at 100, and 4" low at 150. Walking rifle is ready. Last up, the front stuffer with 90gr of FFF behind a patched round ball is zeroed at 100, hits 2" low at 150, and 8" low at 200. Muzzle loader is ready.

Seeing how 75% of the deer that I've taken have been 50 yards or less, 90% at 100 yards or less, yeah, I'm feeling pretty good about deer season. My biggest concern is my 14 year old daughter as it's her first season actually hunting. But, since she can put five 357 rounds from her little Marlin levergun into a 4 inch group at 100 yards, the biggest concern is whether or not she's psychologically ready to kill something. Won't know until the time arrives is my guess, but I'm hedging my bet in that she's more ready than she thinks she is.

That's what I learned at the range today.

Good stuff!! I hope she connects with a fine deer.

[tommag]

It was nice of that feller to school you on combat conditions. Otherwise, you probably would've never known.:bigsmyl2:

[RugerFan]

...I learned from them that the M60 is 60 caliber, hence the name!

You too eh? Back in the 80s I heard a young fellow soldier refer (repeatedly) to the M60 as a ".60 cal." When I corrected him he got mad. Almost wanted to fight about it. Still shaking my head.

[nhrifle]

I would have had one thing to say to the entire group...

120294

[Artful]

When I was a R.O. I used to dread pre-hunting season sight in days. I had a guy twisting the dust caps on his scope complaining it just wouldn't zero - when I took the caps off to actually change the settings, he accused me of breaking his scope.... Some things I don't miss.

[alrighty]

Thank you LL! Every time I start to think about how great it would be to have a nice rifle range nearby someone posts a reminder of how it really is.

[Love Life]

Thank you LL! Every time I start to think about how great it would be to have a nice rifle range nearby someone posts a reminder of how it really is.

Were you being facetious? If so then I have no response for you.

If not being facetious, then please see below:

Don't get me wrong here. Having rifle range within 30 minutes of my house is a nice luxury out here. I really enjoy it and would rather have the experiences I had today than not have a range at all. Plus it's on the way to go look for alligators.

[dtknowles]

Were you being facetious? If so then I have no response for you.

If not being facetious, then please see below:

Don't get me wrong here. Having rifle range within 30 minutes of my house is a nice luxury out here. I really enjoy it and would rather have the experiences I had today than not have a range at all. Plus it's on the way to go look for alligators.


Why are you looking for gators?

Tim

[smokeywolf]

Those idiots you run into at the ranges are one of the reasons I'm a cynical, antisocial, curmudgeon.

Ever wonder why you don't see quite so many idiots shooting black powder?

smokeywolf

[btroj]

When I shot muzzleloaders we had drunks instead. Never saw so many people with a beer on the firing line.

[btroj]

I also went to Harbor Freight today. Gave her 10 buck cash, she asked if it was credit or debit? Umm, it is cash?

[RED333]

So glad I have a range in the back yard, but then I do not get the education some get.
Sounds like some dear will be lucky.

[btroj]

Dear?

I shoot deer, if I shot my dear I would be in deep trouble.

[xs11jack]

Whoa, an M60 is a 60 cal.? So answer this, is a M-2 a 2 cal.? And is an M1 a 1 cal.?? I got one in my safe, maybe I better go look at it!! So what does that make an M1 Abrams Tank???
Ole Jack

[cainttype]

Public ranges are very similar to most gun shops... They are best visited when the least number of people are around. It's also a very good bet that in-depth conversation should be avoided, even with the owners, unless someone ASKS YOU for help... Even then, the odds of encountering baffling BS is very high.
Luckily, I normally have a private range available. It's easier to convince, or convert, those well-intentioned dummies with a few range sessions...polite conversation almost never works.

[Bad Water Bill]

Them OLD range masters can surprise you.

I picked up a 30 carbine at the gun show and took her to the range.

The range master (my good friend) proceded to fire 1 shot at 100 yards off hand then said "watch this" and proceeded to empty the magazine into the bullseye.

[Thumbcocker]

I ain't skeered of snakes or red headed women; but things I see at the range the two weeks before deer season give me the willies.

[375supermag]

Whoa, an M60 is a 60 cal.? So answer this, is a M-2 a 2 cal.? And is an M1 a 1 cal.?? I got one in my safe, maybe I better go look at it!! So what does that make an M1 Abrams Tank???
Ole Jack
A big, fast tank.

[Hannibal]

I was foolish enough to go to a public hunting area one opening deer season morning. I thought I was going to get shot 3 different times walking back to the parking lot. Haven't been to a public access hunting area since, for ANY hunting season.

[smokeywolf]

Them OLD range masters can surprise you.

I picked up a 30 carbine at the gun show and took her to the range.

The range master (my good friend) proceded to fire 1 shot at 100 yards off hand then said "watch this" and proceeded to empty the magazine into the bullseye.

I now have trouble seeing the bullseye at the 100 yard mark.

smokeywolf

[Lance Boyle]

What the army guy was telling me his off brand match 7mm mag dropped 4 inches at 1000 yards. Yep, his match 7mm mag with sporter weight barrel in a wood stock was shooting 1 inch groups at a 1000 yards. This was at the gunshop. I asked him his bullet weight. I walked 5 feet over to the reloading section, picked up a manual looked up his bullet at max listed speed and flipped to the drop tables and handed it to him. Nope his loads are special he says. He knows because he's an army sniper. :-/

I generally stay out of people's way at the range. I don't say much unless they're doing something stupid like walking down range while it is hot. I have gladly helped people that have asked. You get asked when you have a large tackle box of tools and cleaning gear on the bench combined with a good front rest and bag setup. I have probably zeroed more scopes for others than the number of scopes I own. I once saw a young kid with an old 1911 surplus pistol. He was frustrated and thought the pistol was defective and out of tune. He kept getting stoppages and wasn't hitting much. I couldn't help it and opened my mouth that time and offered some advice if he wanted any. He did, he thought his chief problem was the sights were off. We got him sorted out, I test fired it, gun ran fine and was sighted in fine. I then taught him about limp wristing and showed him a couple stances to eliminate it. In 15 minutes he was shooting quite a bit better with no stoppages. Nice lad. I later heard via another club member that he was doing good.

I hated when I was his age and some old guy would come up and give me unsolicited advice. Usually it was couched delicately like "you should get rid of that piece of XXXX and get a real gun, or a certain brand name". God forbid if you showed up to the range with a antique or a milsurp rifle.

[Love Life]

Why are you looking for gators?

Tim

The Apex Predators fascinate me. I try to get pictures of them in the wild...while keeping a safe distance. Since I quit hunting years ago, I do all my animal shooting with a camera. Honestly, I find it very rewarding.

[Love Life]

Them OLD range masters can surprise you.

I picked up a 30 carbine at the gun show and took her to the range.

The range master (my good friend) proceded to fire 1 shot at 100 yards off hand then said "watch this" and proceeded to empty the magazine into the bullseye.

Dang, Bill, if you are calling someone old then THAT is OLD. Maybe even older than dirt.

Yeah, the man started out giving me pointers and I listened a little until he said "Watch how I do it." and proceeded to show me how well a person can shoot a pistol.

[Lance Boyle]

My dad did that for a while. He got tired of the hunting in cold weather and really didn't care to shoot anything anymore. He could "take" them with a camera.


+1 to your sigline. My gunsmith friend was very much along those lines. He said you can read all the books, magazines, and online theories all you want. You only know it when you can sit down at the bench and prove it to yourself through testing.

[alrighty]

Were you being facetious? If so then I have no response for you.

If not being facetious, then please see below:

Don't get me wrong here. Having rifle range within 30 minutes of my house is a nice luxury out here. I really enjoy it and would rather have the experiences I had today than not have a range at all. Plus it's on the way to go look for alligators.

Facetious ,why of course.
I am fortunate that I do not have to go amongst the knowledgeable people you mention in order to shoot.

[texassako]

Thanks for the laugh, I needed it. My last trip to the local range was pretty tame for being close to deer season, except for the guy who colorfully cussed himself out for forgetting to clean his muzzleloader last season.

[Lance Boyle]

I remember when I got my first pistol, a 1911 too. i shot it at 25 yards and took the target inside. A club officer old timer was there, he was a bullseye shooter. He said pistol shooting is all about practice and perfection takes a long time. He said it wasn't bad for a beginner when I pointed out the few close to the center. He flipped my target over to the blank side and pointed to the holes (widely spread using up the whole paper, approx 14x14") "that's your group, keep working on it"

He was right.

[freebullet]

Dear?

I shoot deer, if I shot my dear I would be in deep trouble.

Yeah you would, I've seen your fil shoot.


I get a chuckle out of some of those folks. The worst is when a guy wants to go check his target after each shot, or when you must say something about range safety and the offender wants to get an attitude. The free education is amusing at least.

[dragon813gt]

I learned that Mall Ninjas back down rather quickly when confronted. I wish I knew what his girlfriend thought if him after the verbal tongue lashing. I don't appreciate having an idiot 1' off my left shoulder blasting away w/ an AR, w/ birdcage, at a target set up at five yards. He could barely keep all of them on the entire target, and it was a large one. Final straw, as if hot brass down my neck wasn't enough, was when the brass started hitting my new Single Seven sitting on the bench. There was no reason for him to be that close. He was two stations over but decided he had to get that close for some reason. Sorry for the rant. I hate stupid people. The scary part is that this idiot reloads. I guess the silver lining is that I left w/ a good bit of his brass because it landed in my range bags :)

[Sneakybuffalo]

Whoa, an M60 is a 60 cal.? So answer this, is a M-2 a 2 cal.? And is an M1 a 1 cal.?? I got one in my safe, maybe I better go look at it!! So what does that make an M1 Abrams Tank???
Ole Jack

Rail Gun...

Definitely a Rail Gun...

[SeabeeMan]

Public ranges are very similar to most gun shops... They are best visited when the least number of people are around. It's also a very good bet that in-depth conversation should be avoided, even with the owners, unless someone ASKS YOU for help... Even then, the odds of encountering baffling BS is very high.
Luckily, I normally have a private range available. It's easier to convince, or convert, those well-intentioned dummies with a few range sessions...polite conversation almost never works.

You nailed it. There is a reason I usually set the alarm and go at first light. Plus, I don't have to deal with questions as to why I'm picking through the trash and berm for goodies others left behind. If I was a less honest man, this kind of schedule would have netted me a few very nice rifles and 2 nice 1911's that people left behind, probably packing up at last light.

[MaryB]

Were you at my range by chance? Last trip I had mall ninjas with so much **** hanging off their AR's they weighed 15 pounds. They cam over and looked at my lightweight and proceeded to tell me that the 300 yard range was to far I should be shooting 100 max. Where was my red dot? 45 degree rail and iron sights? Flashlight? Bipod(this I might add, dunno more weight to carry)? I told them to look through my spotting scope and see what I was doing at 300 yards and they claimed that target was from someone else with a high power rifle so I put my last 5 shots in a 3 inch circle for them. They claimed it was a trick. My bullets were hitting the ground and someone in hiding was shooting the target for me....

They proceeded to go back to the 50 yard range and their mall ninja drills and not hitting anything while I packed up. They also told me that shooting off my rifle case folded over on top of an ammo can for a rest would deform my barrel and never work(dudes, I have a free float hand guard for a reason). I had to be shooting standing or prone with a bipod rest that they had attached to their barrels(back to resting barrel on something guys?). They were shooting pencil profile barrels and doing mag dumps and spraying rounds in a 4 foot circle from over heated barrels. I use a match grade heavier profile barrel and at the range it is 5 shots, cool down a bit, 5 shots... I was checking zero anyway and not blasting having fun. When I do that it is cheap ammo and shoot the bouncy ground targets, good practice if you can get one in the air second shot.

[shaper]

Makes me very happ that I have the combination to our club firing range. I can go shoot what I want, when I want, and with who I want.

[MaryB]

Same but weekends the idiot members come out, I try to shoot during the week and often have the range to myself or maybe someone shooting trap.


Makes me very happ that I have the combination to our club firing range. I can go shoot what I want, when I want, and with who I want.

[Blacksmith]

It seems that many on the range wouldn't know a good group if it hit them. They think that from a sandbag or rest if they can get some in the black and most on the paper they are dead eye dick. They always point out the one flyer that is near the center of the bull. They care more about how fast they can do a mag dump than if they actually hit anything and love clangers instead of paper targets that can be measured and compared.

I do enjoy encouraging the know it all types to exhibit their vast knowledge. Good for some laughs at their expense.

[MaryB]

Friend has some 600 and 1k yard steel plates. Fun but nothing I own is super accurate at 1k yards. AR does well at 600 still with my own hand loads.

[Mumblypeg]

I also went to Harbor Freight today. Gave her 10 buck cash, she asked if it was credit or debit? Umm, it is cash?

LOL! I usually ask them if they take CASH.....

[Bzcraig]

I learned from them that the M60 is 60 caliber, hence the name! I also learned that 5.56 ball ammo was called that because under the copper nose was a bunch of little balls.

That must mean a M24 is a .24 caliber and the M203 must be a .203 caliber.

[TXGunNut]

I learned that mule deer seem to enjoy watching an old fat man shoot a fronstuffer. Will post pics as soon as my phone and laptop quit fighting.

[TXGunNut]

120327120325
Pics just showed up, have to look for the deer tho. One was quite interested while the others just hung out enjoying the "BOOM"s.

[snowwolfe]

I may of reported this before but I still consider it a classic so here goes:

It was about 1979 and we were out shooting across the highway from Eielson AFB. My buddy had a new S&W 29 and developed a bad case of flinchitis. Asked him for the revolver and told him we would load 2-3 rounds in the cylinder so he didn't know where the rounds were and to concentrate on a good trigger pull. After a couple of minutes two guys in Army fatigues came over and asked what we were doing so I told them.
One guy said that was a good idea as his friend had a bad case of flinching as well. So he pulled the magazine out of the 45 and put 3 rounds in it and handed it back to his friend telling him what he was doing. After about 3 "full" mags and realizing the slide was locked back and his friend was still trying to pull the trigger and flinching they got into a huddle and quickly jumped into their jeep and left.
Swear to god the story is true.

[TXGunNut]

I may of reported this before but I still consider it a classic so here goes:

It was about 1979 and we were out shooting across the highway from Eielson AFB. My buddy had a new S&W 29 and developed a bad case of flinchitis. Asked him for the revolver and told him we would load 2-3 rounds in the cylinder so he didn't know where the rounds were and to concentrate on a good trigger pull. After a couple of minutes two guys in Army fatigues came over and asked what we were doing so I told them.
One guy said that was a good idea as his friend had a bad case of flinching as well. So he pulled the magazine out of the 45 and put 3 rounds in it and handed it back to his friend telling him what he was doing. After about 3 "full" mags and realizing the slide was locked back and his friend was still trying to pull the trigger and flinching they got into a huddle and quickly jumped into their jeep and left.
Swear to god the story is true.

Hope they never watched a certain DeNiro film.

[btroj]

Snowwolfe, that made me laugh. Some people just don't understand, do they?

[dtknowles]

The Apex Predators fascinate me. I try to get pictures of them in the wild...while keeping a safe distance. Since I quit hunting years ago, I do all my animal shooting with a camera. Honestly, I find it very rewarding.

I keep my eyes out for gators when I out and about where they can be seen. It makes me feel good to see them in the canals and bayous. I don't have much of a camera and not big on taking pictures.

Tim

[Frank46]

At our old range we had someone show up with a semi auto ak47 and proceeded to do a full mag dump. Never mind the fact he's spraying bullets and empty cases all over. About the second time he gets ready to do this a few of us walk up to him and ask if he is a member. No he says the gate was open. gate is to only be unlocked by a member and relocked after the vehicle is past the gate. hope you had some hip waders on. Sometimes the stuff can get pretty deep. Frank

[fatelk]

Many years ago a friend told me matter-of-fact that the M16 has no recoil. I replied that it's pretty minimal but it has a little.

Nope, none at all. He shot one, full auto no less. Zero recoil. He had gone to some high-school day thing with the National Guard while in high school and they shot some guns.

"They wouldn't have been blank by chance?" I asked. "Yea, why" he replied.

On the other hand, a few years ago another friend and I went out to shoot pistols. He had a nice new SIG, but was shooting shotgun patterns at maybe 50 feet or so. He said there must be something wrong with it, so I gave it a try. I put a dozen shots in a nice little group at the same distance.

Here's the difference that attitude and willingness to learn makes. He saw what I did, listened carefully to a few pointers, then went on to seek out more pistol marksmanship info for himself. The next time we went to the range some time later he was dramatically improved. By now he's probably a better shot than I am. At least I hope so because I don't get a lot of practice any more.

[facetious]

Facetious ,why of course.
I am fortunate that I do not have to go amongst the knowledgeable people you mention in order to shoot.


Hay I'm the one that's Facetious!!! So you can't be.

As for things that I have learned, It would seam that i'm some kind of idiot.

A guy at work took a class to get a ccl and comes in to work and tell's me that I'm a idiot for reloading my own ammo. The guy that gave the class said so. He told them that people that reload are wrecking there guns and were making bomb's just waiting to go off in there hands!

I pointed out that I had been rolling my own for over 30 years and had one gun that has never seen a factory round. That in the 80's I was loading and shooting a 1000 rounds or more a year and I can still count to ten!

He comes back saying the guy giving the class was a NRA instructor and thy know.

[dh2]

I have got to where I try to go to the range on week days when my work days allow it , I have found that the older I get the less stupid I can stand.
after starting with a bare bones action and build the rifle to do what I want it to do, I can not stand some idiot talking to me like I know nothing about it.

[big bore 99]

It takes all kinds. Sounds like you had a couple of each there that day.

[9.3X62AL]

Threads like this one remind me how much I miss Inland F&G's range and the weekly Burrito Shoot. There weren't too many idjits on scene on Tuesdays, and those that did show up mostly left us alone.

I'm of two minds when it comes to these Mall Ninja tacticool types with the 60 caliber M-60s. As I get older, my patience for their backwash shortens apace, but at least a part of me is aware that such people OBVIOUSLY did without a Dad--or uncle--or other mentor that took the time to show them the ropes. How to be safe with a firearm, and how to have respect for the sport and those who co-participate in it. I was most fortunate, to have a Dad that loved to shoot, hunt, and fish--likewise uncles of similar stripe--and some friends of the family who could jump in with more specialized knowledge where family members didn't participate.

So, my reaction stream is silent--say to myself first "What idiots!".......then follow with thanks to my Dad (passed), Uncle Ben, Uncle Bob, Uncle Al, and the late Leo Reyes.

[brtelec]

I am just curious how you guys have so much interaction with these people. When I am home from work I am at the range about 3 to 4 times a week. The range is busy from open to close regardless of the day of the week, sometimes more, sometimes less, but busy. I pay attention to them as they come and go and look out for my own safety. Unless someone is doing something dangerous, and our range staff is excellent about being watchful, I can not be bothered to give a rats *** what these people think, say, or do. I offer no unsolicited advice and only on a rare occasion has anyone ever engaged me while there.

[koehlerrk]

These horror stories make me appreciate the little rifle club I belong to just that much more. We have about 70 members, and most times when I go, there isn't another soul on the property. Members only, but you can bring family or guests.

Yesterday there was a husband/wife there when we pulled in, she had just gotten her first handgun and he was teaching her how to shoot it. Nice little Beretta 22, and she was having a ball with it. Since we were using rifles, the only times we talked to them was when we all agreed on a cold range to check/change targets. They saw my daughters' shooting and were quite impressed and very supportive of her. The joys of living in small town USA... we have fewer idiots.

[WILCO]

Thanks for the laugh Richard!

[Goatwhiskers]

Love to read these stories, have the same types down at the local farmer's co-op around hunting season, you'd think they were all ballistics experts and trained snipers. Best story I heard was in a gun store, seems the absolute best caliber is the 8mm Mauser. The bullet travels dead flat to 300yd, then starts to rise. You only have to hold on hair out to 1000yd to get a killing hit. Guess the bullet "rises" on out into the stratosphere after that. Or how about the best hog caliber is the .17 rimfire. Took one thru the shoulder at 200yd. Oh well, no cure for stupidity. GW

[HarryT]

About thirty years ago a "firearms instructor" was teaching a beautiful young lady at the local range. They had quite a crowd around them and everyone was offering their handgun for the lady to try out. When the instructor picked up a Browning High Power he told her "This gun won't shoot with the magazine out." He dropped the magazine, put his hand over the muzzle, and shot a hole through his palm.

[country gent]

While I do see my share of games and sometimes dangerous things at our local club, ussually a little chat and explaining goes a long way to straightening it out. Ive seen the hunters that arnt on targetnad will normally put my spotting scope on thier target and let them know where they are hitting a few corrections and they are "on " target. And ussually give me a big thank-you occassionally some venison later on even. I am disabled with mobility issues and getting a target down range takes me a long time to walk 200 yds and back, even 50 yds over the terrain is an issue. WHen I go to the club alot of the members offer to run my targets down for me. WHen they see me unloading the car they will come over and help me out also. I have had my share of uninformed but far more that want to learn, will accept help and instructions, and are trying to be helpfull. Though I did have one tell me something was wrong with my hepburn one sunday afternoon as when I fired it smoke and parts were flying out the muzzle. Its 45-90 and I was shooting Black powder with 550 grn paper patched bullets grease cookie with wads to protect powder and base of bullet. I explained what the rifle and load was, and that I was trying to dupicate the early bufalo loads of the late 1800s. He looked at the ammo stated it was a neat profject and great looking rifle. I sat him down behind it with some instructions on the action sighting and the set trigger ( even had him "dry fire it 2-3 times to get the feel) Then set the blow tube and 10 rounds beside him, got on the scope. He fired the loads into a decent group at 200yds. He looked thru the scope got a smile on his face the undertaker couldnt have removed and went and told his buddy the whole story. Yes his buddy came down looked everything over, asked if he wanted to try it and he said no recoil was to much for him. I have 2 new friends who are facinated by these big old rifles now. The one just showed up with a new pendersoli sharps in 45-70 wantying instructions on loading.I realize some cant be helped nor do they want the help but alot will welcomne the information and are happy for the help

[1Shirt]

I try to avoid the idiots at the range. It helps that I am old, and hard of hearing, and just sort of ignore them.
1Shirt!

[dakotashooter2]

Just out of curiosity... they guy who schooled you on "combat conditions"...... was he being fired on when he dumped his mag ?????????????

[dakotashooter2]

Love to read these stories, have the same types down at the local farmer's co-op around hunting season, you'd think they were all ballistics experts and trained snipers. Best story I heard was in a gun store, seems the absolute best caliber is the 8mm Mauser. The bullet travels dead flat to 300yd, then starts to rise. You only have to hold on hair out to 1000yd to get a killing hit. Guess the bullet "rises" on out into the stratosphere after that. Or how about the best hog caliber is the .17 rimfire. Took one thru the shoulder at 200yd. Oh well, no cure for stupidity. GW






This one is easy.... you accomplish it by shooting the gun upside down..... so instead of getting bullet drop you get bullet rise......................................:)

[Love Life]

Just out of curiosity... they guy who schooled you on "combat conditions"...... was he being fired on when he dumped his mag ?????????????

No! Hehehe. Actually his thinking and tactics were pretty sound, but the execution was lacking. I told him what I thought was important and left it at that.

I don't pick fights with the people and normally just nod my head and smile and try to help where I can and try to pick up nuggets of knowledge for my own use as well. None of it really bothers me, it is just amusing.

Usually you'll see me sitting back and watching other people shoot my guns. I get bored shooting rifles at the 100 and 200 yd line after the 1st couple of groups with established loads as they are predictable so I'm really just making noise. Watching other people throw down small groups with my guns is more rewarding to me. My .243 is due for a rebarrel so I don't mind letting younger people and peers shoot it up.

At this stage in my life, I'm just there for the fellowship more than anything.

I even got invited to an egg shoot which I'm looking forward to.

[Ed Barrett]

A few years ago, a friend of mine visited and we went out to the range to check out a couple of new guns. We were at the hundred yard range to check out some rifles. We went down down to the 25 yard range to check out a couple of pistols. There was a young couple there, he was going over basic safety, handling, and shooting a pistol to his wife. The had a .22 pistol and a .40 pistol. I was getting ready to shoot an Astra 400 pistol. The fellow was picking up the .40 brass at each target change. In passing I said to him I was shooting 9MM Largo so he could easily see the difference in the brass. After a few minutes he came over to us and in a soft voice said “sir I think it's pronounced 9mm Luger”. He couldn't under stand why we both started laughing.
When we explained the difference, he said he had never heard of anything but Luger. I let him see a 8mm Makarov cartridge and a few more odd shells we were shooting. He was in the Army and stationed at Ft. Wood, and had come to the range to show his wife how to use a pistol because he was set to be deployed.
We showed his wife some hints to help her. I gave him me phone number to give me a call when he got back. Since then I got him started reloading and into old guns. After he got out and moved back to Indiana, he still e-mails me with questions and and when he buys a new gun.

[Dale in Louisiana]

So what you really learned is that idiots walk among us?

In 1984 when I was a college freshman I had two guy living next to me in the dorm. They had both just finished basic and were in the Army Guard. I learned from them that the M60 is 60 caliber, hence the name! I also learned that 5.56 ball ammo was called that because under the copper nose was a bunch of little balls.

Yep, we are surrounded.

Some of those 'lessons' start off very deep in the military training experience. When I was a drill sergeant at Fort Polk in 1970, I listened to an instructor from "Committee Group", the people in charge of giving basic marksmanship instruction and therefore 'knowledgeable individual', tell a set of trainees that the M-16 bullet rose when it left the muzzle because of the right-hand twist of the rifling. this wasn't the only bovine excrement I heard from that bunch.

Fortunately it didn't take much ballistics knowledge to qualify with an M-16 rifle in 1970.

dale in Louisiana

[Love Life]

Some of those 'lessons' start off very deep in the military training experience. When I was a drill sergeant at Fort Polk in 1970, I listened to an instructor from "Committee Group", the people in charge of giving basic marksmanship instruction and therefore 'knowledgeable individual', tell a set of trainees that the M-16 bullet rose when it left the muzzle because of the right-hand twist of the rifling. this wasn't the only bovine excrement I heard from that bunch.

Fortunately it didn't take much ballistics knowledge to qualify with an M-16 rifle in 1970.

dale in Louisiana

There is a whole bunch of truth in there. Some of things that our "Coaches" and PMI (Primary Marksmanship Instructors) spew forth are quite funny-ish.

Or like when the man giving the brief on the M203 says "Get your angle" as if the use of sights is for suckers.

[dragon813gt]

About thirty years ago a "firearms instructor" was teaching a beautiful young lady at the local range. They had quite a crowd around them and everyone was offering their handgun for the lady to try out. When the instructor picked up a Browning High Power he told her "This gun won't shoot with the magazine out." He dropped the magazine, put his hand over the muzzle, and shot a hole through his palm.

I don't know if HiPowers have magazine disconnects or not. But I can tell you they've been disabled on the few firearms I own that have them. Nothing worse than a firearm that won't fire because of a worthless safety feature.

[Love Life]

Same for my S&W autos. Take off the rear sight, remove the spring, and boom. No more magazine safety.

[quilbilly]

No! Hehehe. Actually his thinking and tactics were pretty sound, but the execution was lacking. I told him what I thought was important and left it at that.

I don't pick fights with the people and normally just nod my head and smile and try to help where I can and try to pick up nuggets of knowledge for my own use as well. None of it really bothers me, it is just amusing.

Usually you'll see me sitting back and watching other people shoot my guns. I get bored shooting rifles at the 100 and 200 yd line after the 1st couple of groups with established loads as they are predictable so I'm really just making noise. Watching other people throw down small groups with my guns is more rewarding to me. My .243 is due for a rebarrel so I don't mind letting younger people and peers shoot it up.

At this stage in my life, I'm just there for the fellowship more than anything.

I even got invited to an egg shoot which I'm looking forward to.
I wish mine were as predictable. Sometimes I think my sights have a mind of their own.

[Forgetful]

About thirty years ago a "firearms instructor" was teaching a beautiful young lady at the local range. They had quite a crowd around them and everyone was offering their handgun for the lady to try out. When the instructor picked up a Browning High Power he told her "This gun won't shoot with the magazine out." He dropped the magazine, put his hand over the muzzle, and shot a hole through his palm.

He got that slightly wrong! You can push against the muzzle on a BrowningHP, and it won't fire while out-of-battery.

When I get someone wanting to give me unsolicited "advice" after I've established he is still convincing himself of his eliteness, I interrupt him with gunfire. They still flinch and can't bark.

[lefty o]

factory stock a hi power will not fire with the magazine removed. however a whole lot of people remove the magazine disconnect making them able to fire with or without the magazine.

[jcwit]

While I do see my share of games and sometimes dangerous things at our local club, ussually a little chat and explaining goes a long way to straightening it out. Ive seen the hunters that arnt on targetnad will normally put my spotting scope on thier target and let them know where they are hitting a few corrections and they are "on " target. And ussually give me a big thank-you occassionally some venison later on even. I am disabled with mobility issues and getting a target down range takes me a long time to walk 200 yds and back, even 50 yds over the terrain is an issue. WHen I go to the club alot of the members offer to run my targets down for me. WHen they see me unloading the car they will come over and help me out also. I have had my share of uninformed but far more that want to learn, will accept help and instructions, and are trying to be helpfull. Though I did have one tell me something was wrong with my hepburn one sunday afternoon as when I fired it smoke and parts were flying out the muzzle. Its 45-90 and I was shooting Black powder with 550 grn paper patched bullets grease cookie with wads to protect powder and base of bullet. I explained what the rifle and load was, and that I was trying to dupicate the early bufalo loads of the late 1800s. He looked at the ammo stated it was a neat profject and great looking rifle. I sat him down behind it with some instructions on the action sighting and the set trigger ( even had him "dry fire it 2-3 times to get the feel) Then set the blow tube and 10 rounds beside him, got on the scope. He fired the loads into a decent group at 200yds. He looked thru the scope got a smile on his face the undertaker couldnt have removed and went and told his buddy the whole story. Yes his buddy came down looked everything over, asked if he wanted to try it and he said no recoil was to much for him. I have 2 new friends who are facinated by these big old rifles now. The one just showed up with a new pendersoli sharps in 45-70 wantying instructions on loading.I realize some cant be helped nor do they want the help but alot will welcomne the information and are happy for the help

Sounds like you would be a mighty fine Gentleman to know.

[dragon813gt]

factory stock a hi power will not fire with the magazine removed. however a whole lot of people remove the magazine disconnect making them able to fire with or without the magazine.

Good to know because one is on my short list. Now I know I have some work to do when I buy one :beer:

[country gent]

JC, I try to be helpfull to any one that needs it. watching a new person struggle isnt enjoyable for me, but getting them going on the right path and seeing them improve is very enjoyable. When I sot High power rifle I also coached some juniors and for our rifle teams. Personnaly shooting a high score was third to coaching an adult into a high score and that was second to coaching a junior into a high score. So many read in magazines and on internet misinformation or misinterpet what they are seeing / reading that it is an issue at times. Alot dont understand bore sighting thinking you look down the side of the barrel or the solidness needed to hold the rifle while doing it. Very few understand that you hold the rifle up and relax. The bove supported position, getting a Natural point of aim where the rifle just hangs on the target when your relaxed and holding, Sight alighnment scope iron or appeture sights. Breathing control and how it works. On ther otherhand I wont allow unsafe acts to continue and will say something the first time second time for same offensive act I take membership number or License number from car and turn it into the board to deal with. If something dosnt sound look right with a firearm being shot I will move away from them also. ( watched a guy blow out 3 sako extractors from a rem bolt one day from a distance. during a clear range we talked and I suggested his loads were on the warm side, He informed me it was a 6mm ackley improved and ran at high pressures). No one wants to be yelled and screamed at, but no one wants to be the one everyone packs up and leaves when they arrive either. A quiet explanation of the issue with an introduction and handshake goes alot farther than gruff yelling agressiveness. Treat people with respect as an equal and things go alot smoother.

[jcwit]

country gent, like I said, You Sir are A Gentleman.

It's good to read your posts.

[MaryB]

Needed some parts for my corn cleaner so I tossed my pistols in the range bag. Range was on my way there anyway. As I was driving by the 300 yard range this guy waved at me so I stopped to talk. He told me he couldn't hit the target no matter what was trying. I got out and went over to the bench to see what he was shooting. He had an 870 express with the short slug barrel with a scope. Said he wanted to shoot deer at 300 yards this fall. After explaining ballistics to him and drawing a picture in the dirt he finally grasped what I was saying. Can you hit the target with a slug at 300 yards? Maybe... but the drop is huge and I am not sure how high the hold over would have to be.

We walked over to the 50/100 yard range and I had him sight in at 50. He put 5 on the target and was happy. Then I told him that 100 yards is possible but you will need practice to see how high you need to hold over the back of the deer. He tried it and managed to get 3 of 6 into the kill zone on his target and he told me thanks for the help. He packed up and said he was running into town for more ammo and I told him to make sure he gets the exact same he is going to hunt with because there is a difference between rounds. Told him that he may be on target with what he was shooting today but if he changes he might be a couple inches low or high at 50 yards and to know what each brand would do, which was the most accurate for his shotgun.

I went on to the pistol range and got in a couple hundred rounds. Still getting used to the changes in my right hand from the carpal tunnel surgery so accuracy is not what I want. Having to relearn things.

[lancem]

So glad I have a range in the back yard, but then I do not get the education some get.
Sounds like some dear will be lucky.
yep I'm there, glad to stay stupid I guess... Don't think I could take much of the dumb that happens above...

[country gent]

One of the things we did years ago at our club when making new target frames is we made 3 of the portables 10' tall. They have backer the full distance and the target at the bottom. While we are only 200 yds Camp perry Is only an hour away ( 1000 yds) Washenaw is an hour away (600 yds) Sanduisky (500 yds) Auglaize (400 yds). Our shooters can use these targets to get any rough zero at 200 yds for the match range they are shooting. A ballistics program will tell you how High you need to be at 200 yds to hit at the desired range and you aim at the low bull and adjust up till hitting at the right hieght. I have heard guys spoutting this and that cartridge does this or that at extended ranges. I set one of these up and if its with me my M!A or AR 15 match rifle put the appropriate rationration of zero on them and shoot a group This gives them an actual visual of flight path. One sunday ( asked to give a demonstion) I put groups out tp 1000 yd zero with M1A in 308 with LC 852 duplication load and 173 grn special ball load, 243 with jlk vlds. 600 yds with 308 loads, 243 loads incluuding a factory load, 223 80 grn vlds. And out to 400 yds with 40-65, 45-70, and 45-90. Guys were watching this and each was marked and labeled as shot with the Caliber / Load, Range it was for and "come up" in minutes next to the groups. It dispelled alot of the myths and misinformation that was there. For many years that buther paper backer hung in the rifle building. It was used for new members shooters to hel understand range and come ups. Without the visual most cant see the "numbers" from books or the graph on a computeer screen. Another Ive found that works good is at long range on a damp day put the new shooters behind a spotting scope low behind you and let them watch the trace into the target. Give an excellent demonstration of the ballistics of a round.

[Finster101]

And all that info was worth every bit you paid for it! I don't even argue anymore. Smile and wave boys, smile and wave.

[theperfessor]

Actually, I hear more stupid things at the LGS than I do at the range, but then I usually try to get to range when nobody else is around. Not always that lucky at the LGS...

[TXGunNut]

When I was a young man I realized that I could learn something from anybody, nowadays I seldom have the patience to test that concept.

[MaryB]

Only stupidity I heard at my LGS was that I didn't cast those boolits that were sitting on my gun guys counter(he provided lead so I cast 500 45's for him). He went on and on that no way can a woman understand working with molten metal and how to size them etc etc. Then he started in on I probably can't shoot either until my gun dealer had enough. He handed me his 45 and said go watch. I put a magazine on the target at 20 yards and the guy shut up and left.

[Mike in TX]

Only stupidity I heard at my LGS was that I didn't cast those boolits that were sitting on my gun guys counter(he provided lead so I cast 500 45's for him). He went on and on that no way can a woman understand working with molten metal and how to size them etc etc. Then he started in on I probably can't shoot either until my gun dealer had enough. He handed me his 45 and said go watch. I put a magazine on the target at 20 yards and the guy shut up and left.
Good for you. I only wish that my wife would go shooting.

[Col4570]

Did you know that those twisty bits inside the barrel are to make the bullet go round and round so that it screws into the target.:brokenima

[HarryT]

There are a lot of stupid men who never heard of Annie Oakley or the contributions ladies made during WWll.

[country gent]

MaryB. In my years as a toolmaker 2 of my most succsefull apprentices were young ladies. I could tell / show them how to do something and they were right on it. Inmy years coaching High power rifle and instructing I always looked forward to ladies as there was no preconcieved notions on what was what and such. One of the best tool room welders I had the pleasure of working with was also a lady

[WallyM3]

Not to mention the women snipers in USSR during WWII.

[Forgetful]

I brought a bunch of friends out to the range to take turns at a variety of firearms. One thing I learned is that my woman is a natural shooter! She gets bullseyes and groups like nobody else that came with us. Before when it was just the two of us, and she was shooting well, I figured it was just because she was using my accurate rifle. But when I had others shooting, their groups were quite large. Imagine my surprise and joy. She doesn't have much experience either, just followed a few simple points of instruction.

[starmac]

Good for you. I only wish that my wife would go shooting.

My wife likes to shoot, I wish she cast and reloaded. lol

[Love Life]

My wife likes to shoot, I wish she cast and reloaded. lol

+ 1,000,000,000,000

[9.3X62AL]

My wife likes to shoot, I wish she cast and reloaded. lol

And how!

[Wayne Smith]

A few years ago, a friend of mine visited and we went out to the range to check out a couple of new guns. We were at the hundred yard range to check out some rifles. We went down down to the 25 yard range to check out a couple of pistols. There was a young couple there, he was going over basic safety, handling, and shooting a pistol to his wife. The had a .22 pistol and a .40 pistol. I was getting ready to shoot an Astra 400 pistol. The fellow was picking up the .40 brass at each target change. In passing I said to him I was shooting 9MM Largo so he could easily see the difference in the brass. After a few minutes he came over to us and in a soft voice said “sir I think it's pronounced 9mm Luger”. He couldn't under stand why we both started laughing.
When we explained the difference, he said he had never heard of anything but Luger. I let him see a 8mm Makarov cartridge and a few more odd shells we were shooting. He was in the Army and stationed at Ft. Wood, and had come to the range to show his wife how to use a pistol because he was set to be deployed.
We showed his wife some hints to help her. I gave him me phone number to give me a call when he got back. Since then I got him started reloading and into old guns. After he got out and moved back to Indiana, he still e-mails me with questions and and when he buys a new gun.

Ed, I would love to see that 8mm Makarov! Mine are all 9's. I was at the pistol end of the range a couple of years ago. There was an older couple down from me (I was in my late 50's then) and the guy was obviously competent and very familiar with his auto pistol. His wife was shooting a S&W 38Special revolver and put her first shot in the bullseye. The rest were somewhat scattered. She told her husband "I guess I didn't do too well" I walked over and said "Madam, on the basis of your first shot I don't want you mad at me!" and left. She smiled, settled in and shot the rest of the box and tore the center out of the target.

[Mike in TX]

My wife likes to shoot, I wish she cast and reloaded. lol
But my grand daughters (teenagers) and grandson (20) hunt, fish, camp, reload and the grandson is getting into casting. So I guess that it is not all bad.

[MaryB]

The guy was dressed in all camo, had so much junk hanging off his belt and in pockets that he rattles when he walked. Typical mall ninja type who knows everything. Gun dealer and all the other guys there that day were glad he left. He hasn't come back either. He was pestering the owner to sell him the 22lr he had set aside for regulars who had bought rifles and pistols from him. He gets it in he starts with whoever didn't get any last time and goes down the waiting list. If you are not a regular customer he will not sell any 22lr to you until supplies ease up.

[RED333]

Dear?

I shoot deer, if I shot my dear I would be in deep trouble.
When I saw this my first thought was you quoted "some dummy that cant spell".
Come to find out you found the dummy and it took all this time for this dummy to find himself.
No, I wont go back and fix my spelling, it is just me.

[leeggen]

You all make feel real good about having my own range. Only stupidity I have to listen to is a neighbor that shoots a little on it. But I understand him so I just let it go on by. Although this summer all I heard was how good he could shoot ,left or right one handed or two. I envited him to shoot with the familly on day. After that he hasn't came by to shoot nor has he bragged about how good he shoots. Think he embarassed himself that day.
CD

[nemesisenforcer]

I also went to Harbor Freight today. Gave her 10 buck cash, she asked if it was credit or debit? Umm, it is cash?

It was Harbor Freight. I'm impressed she knew you were attempting to pay.

[bruce drake]

Hell, I didn't get to the range today but I learned on this forum today that my AR15s are military weapons....

[Forgetful]

Hell, I didn't get to the range today but I learned on this forum today that my AR15s are military weapons....

According to the MSM, they're also WMD's.

[bruce drake]

The guy with a hole in his hand was right if the Browning had not been modified at some time in its past. If it isn't your pistol, don't touch it. he earned the hole in his hand if he hadn't asked the pistol's owner if he had removed the magazine disconnect spring to make it fireable without a magazine. my FEG Hi-power is setup that way. It really smooths out the trigger pull, but I and my sons know about the modification and act appropriately and treat it properly just like any single action and clear the pistol when its not in use.


About thirty years ago a "firearms instructor" was teaching a beautiful young lady at the local range. They had quite a crowd around them and everyone was offering their handgun for the lady to try out. When the instructor picked up a Browning High Power he told her "This gun won't shoot with the magazine out." He dropped the magazine, put his hand over the muzzle, and shot a hole through his palm.

[starmac]

We have a public range, what I learned is basically don't go there. Unless I go at 2 or 3 in the morning, chances are I will leave without ever getting out of the pickup. I have just sit there and watched before, and at times have gotten uncomfortable even sitting in the parking lot. I hate to say it, but some of the most dangerous behavior there is by GI's.

[wallenba]

I usually go during the week during 'work' hours now. I'm retired. Don't meet too many 'experts'. Just a lot of old timers like myself with real knowledge and experience. Actually... not a lot of 'gun talk', more 'fun talk' and, how didja do that's?

[MaryB]

Yeah during the work week is when I go 99% of the time. Like listening to some of the older guys who were in wars. They do have knowledge I don't and I am never to old to learn. Plus the stories are fun to hear. Shoot a bit then we all sit at a picnic table and talk. But a lot of the time I get the range to myself.

[Love Life]

Trust me, age is not a good measurement of knowledge when it comes to firearms.

[Pb2au]

Trust me, age is not a good measurement of knowledge when it comes to firearms.

True story. The incredibly nice elderly gentleman I met at the local range the other day informed me that my Model 92 was the secret weapon of the North during the Civil War. I politely thanked him for the info and offered him one of my crackers I was snacking on.

[Sensai]

Trust me, age is not a good measurement of knowledge when it comes to firearms.
+1
As far as public ranges: I'm allergic to stupid, and I start to itch every time I get near one. :lol:

[Ed Barrett]

Ed, I would love to see that 8mm Makarov! Mine are all 9's. I was at the pistol end of the range a couple of years ago. There was an older couple down from me (I was in my late 50's then) and the guy was obviously competent and very familiar with his auto pistol. His wife was shooting a S&W 38Special revolver and put her first shot in the bullseye. The rest were somewhat scattered. She told her husband "I guess I didn't do too well" I walked over and said "Madam, on the basis of your first shot I don't want you mad at me!" and left. She smiled, settled in and shot the rest of the box and tore the center out of the target.

My typo, it was actually a 7mm. Sorry supposed to be 9mm Mak.

[MaryB]

They do know stuff, just have to sift it from the stories that are embellished... range I go to is private. Open gate, enter, lock gate so it is rare to see a non member in there. My gun dealers range is also private. If you haven't bought from him no using it.

[Griff]

Yep, it can be an education.

[TheDoctor]

My wife likes to shoot, I wish she cast and reloaded. lol

I dont care if mine casts or loads, I just wish she would clean the guns she shoots!