LEE 340gr. .457 Dia. for Deer

[DLH]

Ok so this is my second thread? Any opinions on LEEs 340gr .457 Dia. Flat nose bullet from a 45/70 at close range (40 - 75yds).

Enough info?

How do you think it would do on Deer?

Thanks

[DougGuy]

LOL.. About as deadly as you could want it. No hollowpoint needed with this boolit, it will be a pass-thru shot, you won't recover this boolit in the deer, or the one standing behind it either!

I am shooting almost the same boolit in .45 Colt from a Ruger Vaquero at 1150 fps, in 50/50+2% and I don't think it will go very far.

Lee C452-300-RF runs right at 320gr with lube & gas check:
http://i1202.photobucket.com/albums/bb374/DougGuy/Reloading/0d3c189d-b085-4d95-a658-1f0f88b78255_zps3f37d14d.jpg (http://s1202.photobucket.com/user/DougGuy/media/Reloading/0d3c189d-b085-4d95-a658-1f0f88b78255_zps3f37d14d.jpg.html)


Those wide meplat/flat nose boolits are devastating in tissue, nice big entrance hole, golfball size wound channel, big clean exit hole, bleed 'em out both sides.

What alloy/velocity?

[DLH]

I too use this bullet in my 454 Casull and a 310gr. same design in a 44 mag. But I don't think the meplat is near as big? and How fast can I push it with out a Gas Check?

[DougGuy]

You can push it until it leads.. They work better with a GC I can tell you that, because they allow a softer alloy which does more damage than harder alloy, as you will get some decent expansion out of air cooled 50/50. Felix lube highly recommended. Velocity is not really critical once you get 1150 - 1200 f/s with these, they will go through about anything with no problem. Load for best groups, not fastest velocities.

I use the 310 in my SBH also. You are onto the right track with these flat nose boolits, that's all I use anymore. I like softer alloys for thin skinned game, at just over supersonic, and a harder alloy for hogs, as hard as I can drive it.

[starmac]

Me thinks they will kill deer at that range shot out of a good slingshot.

[GoodOlBoy]

I gotta agree with starmac on this one. that is a deer killing dude of a round. No need to push it had and fast it will kill clean if you can put it in the ring.

GoodOlBoy

[Beerd]

if a 45 caliber roundball will kill a deer at the ranges you are talking about (and it will), that bullet should also.
..

[44man]

Yes, guys have it correct, don't look for velocity, only accuracy. That boolit is at home under 1300 fps.
Rounds shown have little case tension and way too much crimp.
Only thing to look for with a .457" boolit is if it is large enough for most 45-70's. Seems most need .459". Slug the bore.

[Lonegun1894]

Seems to me that this bullet is very close to the Lyman 457122 except the solid nose version and not the HP, and was specifically designed to be an excellent deer and hog bullet. Now the Lyman HP version is known to cause meat loss if driven too fast , but this being a solid nose, that isn't as much of a concern. Having said that< I wouldn't try pushing it too fast anyway, just because once you get to this size and weight of projectile, you really don't need to. I mean, it is too short and stubby for long range use anyway, so you don't need to bother trying to flatten out the trajectory by increasing velocity. I mean, 1200-1400fps with this bullet fired out of your rifle should be a very comfortable load to shoot, with a flat enough trajectory out to at least 150 yds, and still shoot clean through any deer or hog out there.

[T-Bird]

I have that mold, I never hunted with it because I didn't think the meplat was wide enough. When I ordered the mold, the picture made it look flatter. I had bad luck with a similarly shaped boolet not opening a large enough hole for a good bloodtrail. I didn't loose a deer, but was lucky to find a couple. I now use the 330 Gould HP. Seems like that boolet shot well tho. Maybe if it was cast of 50/50? I shoot COWW+2%. I push boolets that size w/o gc at about 1375 fps with IMR 4198. Shoot straight, T-Bird

[Lonegun1894]

T-Bird,
Since you have, or have had both, is the nose on the Lee 340 really that much smaller than the nose on the 330 Gould (Lyman 457122)? I always thought they were about the same when you use the solid nose version of the Gould. I have the HP version, but haven't used it on game yet. In LEE .45-70 type molds, I have the 405 and 450gr, so always thought they would be similar. They are quite smaller meplats than on my 405gr FNGC RCBS mold.

[TMenezes]

http://i1202.photobucket.com/albums/bb374/DougGuy/Reloading/0d3c189d-b085-4d95-a658-1f0f88b78255_zps3f37d14d.jpg (http://s1202.photobucket.com/user/DougGuy/media/Reloading/0d3c189d-b085-4d95-a658-1f0f88b78255_zps3f37d14d.jpg.html)

WOw that crimp looks like a small bottle neck!!! I think I saw Speer saying it was a special crimp for big bores that only RCBS dies do. Are those the dies your using?

[TMenezes]

Let's get back to the OP's question. The meplat on the Lee 340gr .457 is downright tiny compared to the monster meplat on the photo of the Lee 310gr .452 boolit. Is the Lee 340 .457 boolit a good hunting round with its smallish meplat. I really want to know because that's my only mold for my 45-70.

[Lonegun1894]

Looking at the Lee Precision website, I can't find the diagrams with measurements for their bullets I could have sworn I have seen somewhere, but the 405gr and the 450gr have the same size meplat on them, and the 340 looks to be the same. I have used the 450 on hogs and deer, and the 405 on hogs, and both performed very well with full penetration and exits at any angle. I would expect the 340 to work just as well on hogs and deer, even with the lighter wieght.

[TMenezes]

Thanks Lonegun, by chance do you know if the long nose on the Lee 450gr mold will feed in Marlin 45-70? Just from looking at it I was thinking it's intended for single shots.

[bubba.50]

in my buffalo classic they stack one right on top of the other at 75yds loaded to trapdoor velocities.

[DLH]

Could , would, anyone that has the Lee 340 mold mic measure the meplat, and let us know what the dimension is?

thanks

[Rufus Krile]

DLH... the meplat on mine measures out at .260". This bullet in front of 16.0 gr of Trail Boss turns up 1270fps out of my 1885 and 1250fps out of a friends' 1886. If you cast it hot and shoot it unsized it may run as big as .459" which should calm any worries about leading. My 450gr Lee mold appears to be a bore rider in my '85 and is lightly marked clear back to the first grease groove... might present a problem in a repeater. Best of luck.

[DLH]

The meplat on a Lee .430" Dia. 310 gr bullet is .345" ( that is what I had on the desk). minus .260" = .085". is that alot? would it make a difference in hunting deer?

Thanks Rufus

[Lonegun1894]

TMenezes,
The 450 did not feed in either my 1895 SBL or a friends 1895 Guide Gun, and is the reason I bought the 405 to begin with. However, when single fed directly into the chamber, it does chamber fine and shoots very well. But it defeats the purpose of having a repeater when you can only use it as a single-shot as far as I'm concerned. I do have a friend that has an 1895 that does feed it, but he said he had to modify the gun to make it do it. I wanted higher velocities and a GC design so bought the RCBS 405 FNGC, which feeds as well as the Lee 405, but has a GC and a larger meplat.

[starmac]

The meplat on a Lee .430" Dia. 310 gr bullet is .345" ( that is what I had on the desk). minus .260" = .085". is that alot? would it make a difference in hunting deer?

Thanks Rufus

No known complaints from deer shot with them.

[Lonegun1894]

DLH, .085" is almost 1/10th of an inch, which doesn't sound like much until you either look at them side by side or do the math as to how much of a percentage that is of the full bullet diameter. For example, assuming you size the 340gr to .459", .260" meplat is a 56% meplat, so just over half the total diameter. Now the .44 310gr with it's .345" meplat, makes it an 80% meplat. Just using the above numbers cause they were provided so they're easy and available. And the 340gr still has only 75% of the meplat that the 310gr gives, even though the 310gr is a smaller diameter bullet. Does that make any sense? Maybe someone here has a photo that they can post showing them both side by side cause sometimes seeing the difference in a photo is easier than looking at the numbers and trying to imagine what they mean. Anyone?

[Duckiller]

DLH a 200gr boolit out of a 44/40 will kill a deer at the distances you are talking about. Your 340 gr should do fine. just hit it in a vital spot.

[Lonegun1894]

Duckiller is absolutely right. The 200gr fired out of a .44-40 rifle was going around 1200fps IIRC, and was considered one of the best deer rifles for a looooong time, til we were infected with Magnumitis, and now, a .300 WinMag isn't enough gun for some people. And due to the low velocity you're talking about, at least as compared to some more modern calibers, you shouldn't lose much if any meat since you're using a real man's gun, instead of a varmint rifle. There, that should stir up a hornets nest. :brokenima:kidding::drinks:

[44man]

My experience with deer and the 45-70 BFR revolver opened my eyes. I have a WLN boolit I made a mold for, deadly accurate but I make them hard with WD WW metal. I lost a few deer and ones I found went 200 or more yards so I made a WFN of over 80% meplat, it did exactly the same thing.
I then went to a softer 50-50 boolit with a HP and destroyed half a deer. I was disgusted so used a 300 gr Hornady next deer and it was perfect so I need to make cast work the same. I am thinking 75-25 for alloy or just a softer nose. A 45-70 can gut, skin and grind a deer or it will lose one FAST.
All my fast kills with a .44 SBH have been done with a WLN, so too the .45 Colt.
Please guys, don't think the meplat alone is enough, you need to tailor the alloy to your velocity.

[44man]

I was DUMB, thinking faster would do better with a hard boolit and a WFN was better. I kill a lot of deer and found I was barking up the wrong tree. It hurts to lose a deer.

[TMenezes]

Thanks for the info guys, I'll try my Lee .457 340gr on the local wild boar before I pass judgement on it. I was just a little unimpressed at first by its small meplat. I run my alloy pretty soft so maybe it will mushroom up and end up being perfect. I like casting this size as it eats up less of my lead and produces lower recoil. Also need less powder to get it to the low to moderate velocities I run.

[wmitty]

If your using a Marlin you'd better make sure they are casting large enough to fill the grooves; mine wouldn't and I had to go to the RD 350 WFN to get a .460" dia. slug. The 340 Lee might work paper patched in the Marlins.

[T-Bird]

Actually Longgun, the meplat on both boolets is quite similar. But apparently the hp on the Gould design allows this boolet to cut a hole that leaks better that the rnfp design of the Lee 340.Haven't had a problem with blood trails. I didn't use the Lee 340 for hunting because it was so similar to the style that I was using (RCBS I think) that I didn't like for the reasons that I stated above.Where I hunt, many times if you shoot a deer and it runs, if it's more than 75 yds, you can't see it anymore. These boolets that have the small rounded meplats dont cut skin as well as the wider meplats so blood doesn't leak as well. T-Bird

[Lonegun1894]

T-Bird,
Thanks. I got the Gould HP mold like yours mostly due to curiosity as to how much difference the HP makes, but didn't realize the HP was almost half the bullets length deep til after I got it. Not complaining, just unexpected. Anyway, the Lee 450 is the one I have the most experience with just because I have had it the longest, and it has always worked well for me, but I eventually wanted the 457122HP just to save lead and see how much of a difference it makes. I have only fired 100-150 of the Gould bullet so far, but it shoots great so far, and I don't think I have found the best load yet. Here is something that has crossed my mind, and for this purpose, I am considering the Gould and the Lee 340 to be the same bullet except one is an HP and the other isn't. The Gould should be better for just behind the shoulder shots, while the Lee should be better for if you prefer to break the shoulder to anchor the deer or hog in place or want more penetration than an HP is likely to give.

[T-Bird]

Sounds reasonable to me Lonegun. I started out shooting a 405gr boolet in the '90s when I first started casting in 45/70. Worked well but was WAY overkill for our deer. I like the smaller boolets because they don't use as much metal, don't kick as much and are plenty for deer. That being said, the last several deer I've taken, have been with boolets in 35 remington that I got after the 1895 CB 45/70. I am probably the only REDNECK in Ala. that has never killed a deer with a 30/30. Maybe I can fix that. Shoot Straight, T-Bird.

[44man]

If your using a Marlin you'd better make sure they are casting large enough to fill the grooves; mine wouldn't and I had to go to the RD 350 WFN to get a .460" dia. slug. The 340 Lee might work paper patched in the Marlins.
Yes, that is why a lot of Lyman molds don't fit. Depends on when they sharpened cherries in runs of molds. My 30-30 Marlin has grooves of .3092" so I use a boolit sized .311". I lucked out with my RCBS mold that casts large enough. Bought a few of each make for the 45-70 over the years and most cast at .457". I need .459" for the revolver too. Had to make my own molds.
Paper patch can fix a small boolit and the powder coating has been said to work but I can't bring myself to painting boolits yet.
RD did the right thing with his molds, making them fit.

[fifty4]

I shoot this boolit it drops a boolit 360 grain, it shoots 3 shot groups ofunder 1 1/4 inch at 75 yards. just put this boolit in the right spot and you cant go wrong.