"Maintain Situational Awareness"

[oldred]

How many of you folks are getting sick of hearing that? My wife and I were in Wallyworld today and as usual I stroll back to the sporting goods dept to check out the ammo, nope no 22 RF this time, and two customers and the guy behind the counter were discussing a Savage shotgun that was in the rack. Both of the armchair commandos along with the kid behind the counter were trying to be serious and they were trying to sound like tactical (another word that's getting kind of worn out) defense instructors, when we walked away my wife wanted to know what they were talking about. Then we stopped at the LGS to pickup some supplies for my son and there was the same conversation going on between two other guys, I bet between both places we heard "maintain situational awareness" a half dozen times, Lol!

This is not a rant or gripe and in no way intended to offend anyone, I actually find it comical and I just thought I would ask if anyone else sees any humor in this?

[s mac]

Is that the same thing as keeping your eye's peeled?

[skykingjohn]

no it means keep your head out of your a## and see what is going on around you

[Recluse]

It's gotten to the point that I just avoid gun stores whenever possible.

:coffee:

[starmac]

When guys around me get to talking tacticool, I ask if that happens to come in thutty thutty, and usually get some stupid reactions. lol

[Goatwhiskers]

I'm plumb sick of hearing about "tactical", "precision long range", and "magnums". Some fora that's the only topics available. Col. Jeff Cooper called it combat mindset, or you could just call it as skykingjohn did. GW

[alrighty]

I think they are funny , my only problem is trying to walk around the gun shops without busting out in laughter.
I think for the most part they will support pro gun candidates in elections so I just try to leave them alone.

[phonejack]

A couple of months ago I was at my gun range. I watched a stranger pull an AR 15 out a case . It must have its initial weight doubled with all of the extras clamped on it. Back up sights, light, mag pouches, really big scope, didn't have a bayonet on it though, all this on a M-4 look a like.
then I noticed his ball cap had " firearms instructor" on it. He was even wearing a matching T-shirt with the same words. With bi-pod attached I watchednhim shoot a 4" group @'50 yrds. He was not amused when I politely asked him what was wrong with his rifle.
Oh yeah, his hat and shirt had in small letters "MIDWAY USA"
buy yourself an outfit and be a -------- too !

[oldred]

But if he can manage to squeeze in a few "situational awareness"s and "maintain discipline at all times"s then maybe he thinks he truly is an instructor! :bigsmyl2:

It really has reached the point of being just plain silly.

[country gent]

Even better is the guy that told me ( I was testing loads in an M!A for 1000 yd match coming up) that his AR in 223 would be better to use, That it was adopted due to more power and flatter tragectory that the M14 in 308. I hear it all and others at the club or shops also. Its hard to keep a straight face and not debbate with them. Theres no reasoning with that mindset. Ive seen the "cammandos with full camo shooting rifles at 50 yds that should be at 200 or better. One thinks his 338 lapua is at its best at 200 yds any farther is stretching it. Theres so many armchair experts out there that have read alot and not done anything to prove disprove what they read. Been told by these experts my cane makes me a "target", That its in now way any kind of usefull weapon. Give them time and they may figure it out eventually.

[BrassMagnet]

I believe in paying attention to what is going on around you. I don't care what you call it.

I have done the heavy rifle for many years. I just carried a 17 1/2 pound, or so, rifle through hunting season. I realized it is awesome for the long range watching for deer or elk anywhere thing. It sucks at sneaking through the woods. Too heavy to stay ready! I am now having phantasies about a M70 Featherweight in 7x57 with a 3x9 VXII!

I believe it is Gunsite that stresses a combat carbine must be light or you can't get it in action fast enough. I think I can understand that now!

[starmac]

WOW Brass. I have never been in the lightweight crowd, but I would start thinking about it if my rifle weighed in the neighborhood of 17 pounds. lol

[Gator 45/70]

Fill free to apply this as needed and when needed Gentlemen, Thanks'

[BrassMagnet]

WOW Brass. I have never been in the lightweight crowd, but I would start thinking about it if my rifle weighed in the neighborhood of 17 pounds. lol

I used to add a whole bunch of lead to them! Can you believe my first ten offhand were better than my second ten? Naaw, it couldn't have anything to do with getting tired!

[Blammer]

Brassmagnet.
I'm thinking you need a heavier gun so when you get excited you won't shake so bad and miss the close shots..

a bear story comes to mind... :)

so did these guys who were so keen on situational awareness notice you?

[BrassMagnet]

Fill free to apply this as needed and when needed Gentlemen, Thanks'

I like that.
I shoot a lot of high power and a lot of pistol competition. Neither requires carrying the firearm for miles!

[ohland]

It must have its initial weight doubled with all of the extras clamped on it. Back up sights, light, mag pouches, really big scope, didn't have a bayonet on it though, all this on a M-4 look a like.

Sounds like a re-run of "Geardo Island". Did he have a vertical forend on it? Should have had a SAW dump pouch as well. Gloves with the hard knuckles? Blackhawk boots?

After a few months of carrying around an M4/M68/BIS/PVS-4/Surefire, it does not trip my trigger. Nor did it.

[starmac]

Seems to me situational awareness was just a part of common sense we learned coming up, nothing a guy needed to talk about.

[BrassMagnet]

Brassmagnet.
I'm thinking you need a heavier gun so when you get excited you won't shake so bad and miss the close shots..

a bear story comes to mind... :)

so did these guys who were so keen on situational awareness notice you?


Bear was not "Situationally Aware."
I was not "Spare Ammo Aware!"
Bear won!

Photo time?

[ohland]

Seems to me situational awareness was just a part of common sense we learned coming up, nothing a guy needed to talk about.

Hmm, think of a tourist just passing through. Now think of a participant. Different levels of SA.

But then again, the zombie menace may turn out to be the next level of the Obola mutation.

[762 shooter]

If I hear "shelter in place" one more time I'm going to "double down".

762

[Fishman]

We all started somewhere and some poor saps weren't fortunate enough to have a good mentor. They'll come around.

[TXGunNut]

Situational awareness is hardly a new concept, could actually be helpful for folks that are so absorbed with the internet and video games.

[quilbilly]

We all started somewhere and some poor saps weren't fortunate enough to have a good mentor. They'll come around.
I agree and smile. Recently one our our fellow board members said something priceless about this. To paraphrase - If you see a bunch of tacticool guys walking down the street looking for trouble and one old guy with a lever action, you shoot the guy with the lever action first because he is serious and dangerous. My apologies to the board member who came up with that.

[L Ross]

Aw heck, this kind of combat babble has even infected requalification training. Tuesday I was told upon hearing the command "GUN!" I was to draw and take one "dynamic" step to the right and engage the target. I was about to open my mouth when I decided just to shut up, shoot, qualify, and be done with it.
I'm still not sure what a "dynamic" step is but ever since state mandated DAAT (defensive arrest and tactics) lawyerized nonsense invaded out training I never know what the latest buzz phrase is gonna be.

Duke

[btroj]

I must hang out with the right crowd, I don't hear any of that garbage.

I will say that I maintain situational awareness at work at all times, hard to manage a staff of you don't.

[Rufus Krile]

These guys are locally known as "door gunners on the mother ship"... seems to cover it...

[runfiverun]

heck Duke.
the only dynamic steps I take are when I trip over sumthin.
oh you said dynamic not dramatic..... never mind.
doesn't dyna mean in circles or sumthin like that, maybe you were supposed to pirouette [through the door] in a diving arc shooting two 45's at the same time that'd be pretty dyn err dra whatever.

[MaryB]

Sounds like the one I ran into at WalMart today. I was looking to see of they had any 22lr(do it every trip just in case) and then asked the kid what the price was on the 5.56x45. He started in that 22lr was just as good because they both shoot the same bullet and have the same distance so why not use the cheaper stuff... felt like beating my head on the counter.

My LGS is not like that thankfully, no mall ninjas allowed. Most of the crowd shoot serious, hunt as often as possible, and are not into tacticool in any way. AR with a scope is to tactical for some of them. I need it to see the dang targets!

[facetious]

." Been told by these experts my cane makes me a "target", That its in now way any kind of usefull weapon. Give them time and they may figure it out eventually."

When my wife had to use a cane a few years a go I drilled a 3/8" hole up the middle as far as i could with the drill I had and filled it with epoxy coated wad cutters. It added about 1/4 lb to the end of it. That thing could brake bones if you got a good swing with it. To bad I cut it shorter to better fit her now it is to short for me. I do keep an eye for that one that just looks right for me to do the same with. And as I am getting closer to the "age" that you don't stand out walking with a cane it my be just the "carry rig for old guys".

[brtelec]

Seems to me situational awareness was just a part of common sense we learned coming up, nothing a guy needed to talk about.

This is the sad part. This does need to be discussed with the average person. Society as a whole moves through their day with not a single thought to what is going on around them. For a lot of these individuals that are just getting into the shooting sports and the idea of carrying for personal defense, this is a revelation. It is strange for a lot of us to imagine but the average person spends their entire day with their head jammed up their ***. Then they will wonder why them, when something terrible happens.

[Lead Fred]

Is that the same thing as keeping your eye's peeled?

Only if yer toting a lever gun. If your carrying black, then you have to have SA

[dagger dog]

." Been told by these experts my cane makes me a "target", That its in now way any kind of usefull weapon. Give them time and they may figure it out eventually."

When my wife had to use a cane a few years a go I drilled a 3/8" hole up the middle as far as i could with the drill I had and filled it with epoxy coated wad cutters. It added about 1/4 lb to the end of it. That thing could brake bones if you got a good swing with it. To bad I cut it shorter to better fit her now it is to short for me. I do keep an eye for that one that just looks right for me to do the same with. And as I am getting closer to the "age" that you don't stand out walking with a cane it my be just the "carry rig for old guys".

A shillelagh, cudgel or club can be a fearsome weapon at close range !

[Wayne Smith]

." Been told by these experts my cane makes me a "target", That its in now way any kind of usefull weapon. Give them time and they may figure it out eventually."

When my wife had to use a cane a few years a go I drilled a 3/8" hole up the middle as far as i could with the drill I had and filled it with epoxy coated wad cutters. It added about 1/4 lb to the end of it. That thing could brake bones if you got a good swing with it. To bad I cut it shorter to better fit her now it is to short for me. I do keep an eye for that one that just looks right for me to do the same with. And as I am getting closer to the "age" that you don't stand out walking with a cane it my be just the "carry rig for old guys".

Look in some of the woodworking catalogs. They sell single harness hanes to top a walking stick. That's the brass piece that tops the horse harness, one on each side, big, brass piece with a ball on the end.

They are available in two sizes, the large takes a 6/4 diameter stick. One healthy cane.

[dakotashooter2]

You should have pointed your finger at them and said "BANG.... your dead..... I guess your situation awareness isn't what it should be"...............


"Situation awareness"...says the guy texting on his phone..............

[oldred]

I guess if their "situational awareness" was what it should be they would be aware of the folks around them laughing at them.

[snuffy]

I too am damn tired of the "new" catch phrases for old common sense things. The kids are taking over the world with their "hash-tag" this and that. But it will be their world pretty quick after us geezers die off. I'm real tired of what I perceive as a flippant attitude of the youngsters, nothing is taken seriously until they're in "it" up to their necks.

If you don't like a new term for what we already do as SOP, (standard operating procedure), or, what we were taught by our dads for everyday life, then ignore it.

Being situationally aware means of course keeping your eyes peeled and being ready if the SHTF. Those of us that carry a concealed weapon had darn well beware where ever we are as to what might happen.

[waksupi]

A shillelagh, cudgel or club can be a fearsome weapon at close range !

Yep, I have a black thorn shillalagh, and a shark's tooth cane. Both have proved very effective in the past for getting my point across.

[Thumbcocker]

Kidding aside it is not bad advice for a generation that lives glued to their phones with ear buds in.

[RayinNH]

A couple of months ago I was at my gun range. I watched a stranger pull an AR 15 out a case . It must have its initial weight doubled with all of the extras clamped on it. Back up sights, light, mag pouches, really big scope, didn't have a bayonet on it though, all this on a M-4 look a like.
then I noticed his ball cap had " firearms instructor" on it. He was even wearing a matching T-shirt with the same words. With bi-pod attached I watchednhim shoot a 4" group @'50 yrds. He was not amused when I politely asked him what was wrong with his rifle.
Oh yeah, his hat and shirt had in small letters "MIDWAY USA"
buy yourself an outfit and be a -------- too !120039

[starmac]

I have seen it mentioned a couple of times in this thread, that those that carry had better be aware of what goes on around them. Why would or should it be limited to those that carry protection. Me thinks everybody should be as aware of all situations as they can be, not just from folks that might have evil intentions. In real life stuff happens, it happens to those that are not paying attention more often.
I have heard people called accident prone all of my life. In my opinion it is because some people just do not pay attention and take steps to keep an accident from happening.

[freebullet]

What are all you Booliteers going to do when wheel/lever guns become tacticool? They will start making up new words for them. It has already been happening to bolt guns, won't be long.

[dakotashooter2]

Isn't it S&W that just came out with a new magnum revolver with rails on the top and bottom of the barrel. Their sales pitch is for "hunters" but it look more like it is for the tacticool crowd.

LOL most of these types would probably quit pulling the trigger if their electronic sight or scope failed, not knowing what to do next. personnaly I don't think one can fully understand the intricacies of trajectory and wind drift until you have spend some time practicing Kentucky windage.

[TaylorS]

It's gotten to the point that I just avoid gun stores whenever possible.

:coffee:

Save a lot of money that way

[Hogtamer]

At least "Xtreme" whatevers have gone the way of the dinosaurs

[facetious]

That is not true!

On the TV thy say all the politicians are just to Xtreme!!!!!!

[bob208]

a good cane is one of the old ones that was a pool cue that unscrewed and the front half went into the butt half. it had a brass ball on the end that came apart to carry chalk. pour that brass ball full of lead. makes a nice club. a old pool ball on the end of a cane works nice too.

[garym1a2]

send it

[starmac]

The very first day my 104 year old great grandmother went in the nursing home, A nurse tried to take her snuff. She got a quick lesson covering situational awareness and the use of tactical canes. LOL We were immediately called in, in the end they decided to leave her snuff alone, but wouldn't agree to give her cane back. lol

[MaryB]

Stopped at the range today to play with my AR and make sure I have it zeroed for coyote season coming up. Mall Ninja's on the bench to my right kept staring at me as I was shooting on the 300 yard range. I stopped to check the target and cover the holes so I could run a few more rounds so they came over.

First words out of their mouth were "you can't hit anything at this range with an AR" then they asked where the red dot, flashlight, bipod, 45 degree rail etc were. Sheesh I have a nice lightweight AR for a reason, all that **** gets heavy walking field edges where I hunt.

Then I showed them the target through my spotting scope and they claimed no way you did that so I put 5 more rounds in a 3 inch circle and emptied the magazine so I could pack up the rifle. They walked away muttering to themselves that I was using some kind of a trick, that they can barely hit the target at 100 yards no way can anyone do 300. They were shooting cheap steel **** ammo from some plastic AR that I never heard of. So cheap gun cheap ammo, bad form when shooting long range... they were trying to shoot offhand at 100 yards and after 5 shots the cheap barrel heated up and turned into a noodle. I was shooting off the top of a folded up rifle case on top of an ammo can as a brace, I know that I suck shooting offhand so I usually find something to help steady my shots!

[starmac]

Mary if your target sparked an interest in one of them, just think of all the bucks it will cost him over the years. lol

[MaryB]

Thing is a quality AR is not hard to build on a budget. Bit time consuming collecting parts as I found deals mainly. Just under $600 without the scope, that was $175 for a Bushnell Ar Optics 3-9x40 on Nikon P223 rings I found on sale for $29. Did well on a 1 day prairie dog shoot 2 weeks ago but wasn't quite zeroed so I loaded up 25 rounds to use today for doing a better job. Originally sighted it in with American Eagle and that stuff is fine for fun but not overly consistent accuracy wise.

[Garyshome]

Definition of maintaining situational awareness:...not stepping in Dog Poop!

[monadnock#5]

Someone on TV said a long time ago, said that the vast majority of murder victims knew that they were tempting fate when they went to, or stayed in, whatever the situation was that got them killed.
To a certain degree, most are born with some degree of "situational awareness". Professional training works well for the rest, although the school of hard knocks will get you there too. If one lives that long.

[s mac]

Definition of maintaining situational awareness:...not stepping in Dog Poop!

Or wiping your shoes off before going ih the house.

[Smoke4320]

If I hear "shelter in place" one more time I'm going to "double down".

762\

good to "shelter in place" while you "double down" but you better be at the "Low ready" while "maintaining situational awareness" and have "your head on a swivel"

[MaryB]

Spent a couple hours sitting in my favorite squirrel spot, field edge where corn was planted. No camo, blaze orange hat to be legal. This guy wearing full camo walks within 8 feet of where I was tucked in against a tree sitting on a stump and doesn't see me. He got past and I asked if he was lost and he about had a heart attack. Said he was squirrel hunting and walked the entire woods. He made enough racket to be heard from 100 feet on the dry leaves. Squirrels head for the hills when they know you are coming because they get hunted hard in that public wildlife area. How in the heck are you going to see anything stomping around making a racket? I had 3 squirrels laying next to me and he asked how far I walked. I pointed to my car 200 feet away. No understanding at all that noise means no game. After he went by I packed it in for the afternoon.

[starmac]

Always enjoyed hunting with a good dog after the leaves fell, much more than still hunting.

[MaryB]

Thats fine if you are quiet, this guy was like a bulldozer pushing through brush he could have walked around. And he never stopped to look up.


Always enjoyed hunting with a good dog after the leaves fell, much more than still hunting.

[cbrick]

They can't sell anything anymore unless it's "tactical". Look for anything, firearms, scopes, knives, belts, holsters, everything & anything is tactical. I've even seen ads for "tactical" reloading dies. Even a large portion of the Rifleman is dedicated to "tactical". I used to enjoy looking over the ads in the Rifleman but not anymore, I just have no desire or use for 600 rounds a minute and "spray & pray".

How many gun ads have you seen that include a picture of the Seals storming the beach? There was one on this site from Brownell's not long ago. I propose that if that is what you aspire to that you enlist and spend years working and training far harder than you ever thought possible to work & train. Then and only then will you truly be "tacticool".

Rick

[Blacksmith]

What really gets to me is these "Situational Aware" types with heads on swivels still don't SEE anything. You need to notice what is going on, or is not happening, and be aware of the little clues then apply a little critical thinking to understand the situation. They might notice an elephant standing in the middle of the street but they won't SEE the lack of locals present who know something bad is about to happen.

[BrassMagnet]

What really gets to me is these "Situational Aware" types with heads on swivels still don't SEE anything. You need to notice what is going on, or is not happening, and be aware of the little clues then apply a little critical thinking to understand the situation. They might notice an elephant standing in the middle of the street but they won't SEE the lack of locals present who know something bad is about to happen.

I like your word view! It's not the vision, it is interpreting what the vision is seeing that is important!

[starmac]

A big percentage of people upon seeing an elephant in the middle of the road would park in the lane of traffic get out and try to pet it or take a picture with it. It has something to do with common sense.

[BrassMagnet]

A big percentage of people upon seeing an elephant in the middle of the road would park in the lane of traffic get out and try to pet it or take a picture with it. It has something to do with common sense.

I believe this happened with the sniper in the bell tower in Texas many years ago. They heard about it on the news and walked out in the street to watch, thereby becoming part of the news.

There was a mass shooting in LA area back around 1981, It was part of the war for control of one of the drug gangs. Four men with shotguns got out of a Limo to shoot their intended target and lined up in a row before opening fire. Most of the crowd at the block party just stood and watched.
We are encouraged to "just be a good witness!" Most of the victims watched the shooting from behind the intended target.

[dakotashooter2]

I'm curious as to how one maintains situation awareness when peripheral vision is blocked by a "hoodie".

[cbrick]

I'm curious as to how one maintains situation awareness when peripheral vision is blocked by a "hoodie".

You just don't understand, situation awareness is important but ya still have look "cool". :veryconfu

Rick

[Love Life]

Ahhhh, good ol' "SA" or situational awareness.

It actually works, but is abit more involved than just looking at stuff around you. Use all your senses. also, you need to be wearing 5.11 tactical gear brand pants and a vest that tells everybody you are packing the heat.

It's so easy to see who is carrying concealed just by how awkward they act.

SA entails alot. Kids missing in usually kid populated areas, street corners emptying, dirty looks, hushed conversations, odd smells, etc.

[snuffy]

I'm curious as to how one maintains situation awareness when peripheral vision is blocked by a "hoodie".

Or when carrying a "boom box" on one shoulder!? Solution for the bad guy is to shoot through the boom box to hit the head.

[Love Life]

Oh, and wait until the term "Combat Hunter" becomes mainstream.

[Love Life]

heck Duke.
the only dynamic steps I take are when I trip over sumthin.
oh you said dynamic not dramatic..... never mind.
doesn't dyna mean in circles or sumthin like that, maybe you were supposed to pirouette [through the door] in a diving arc shooting two 45's at the same time that'd be pretty dyn err dra whatever.

I thought you were high speed, low drag?

[cbrick]

Ahhhh, good ol' "SA" or situational awareness.

Pretty sad, I guess I am old after all. Silly me, I thought SA was "Single Action".

Rick

[Love Life]

No Sir, SA is now situational awareness. Single Actions are now refered to as "Grandpa's gun" and are not only ammo capacity challenged, they are also underpowered and not accurate beyond 7 yards...7 yards also just happens to be the new distance for judging pistol accuracy.

[cbrick]

Hhmmm . . . What do great grandpa's shoot then?

Rick

[Jim Flinchbaugh]

In my upbringing, "maintaining situational awareness" was taught with a quick
smack along the head accompanied by a very loud "PAY ATTENTION!" from my father

[Smoke4320]

Hhmmm . . . What do great grandpa's shoot then?

Rick

Water pistols filled with little blue pill juice

[Blacksmith]

Hhmmm . . . What do great grandpa's shoot then?

Rick

Rock Locks

[Multigunner]

Personally I prefer the good old fashioned "nomenclature" (which is another word I never particularly liked).
Rather than double tap or triple tap or the dredded "Mozambique Drill", why bother counting at that stage, thats what them big magazines are for ain't it. Much better to just keep shooting till blood stops pumping from all them little holes. If the range is such that you can hit em in the brain pan it would be better to do that first off, just in case the bad guy can afford body armor.

A friend always liked to use the big words and latest tacticool slang, but since he is a professional who used to go down to Mexico and bring back bail jumpers in the trunk of his car, before that became politically incorrect, he carried it off quite well. He worked for a outfit run by his uncle, a former federal agent. Things across the river aren't quite so easy now as they were thirty years ago.

[Multigunner]

One thing I've found very irritating in recent years is the unnecessary controversy over the used of a simple term like AD (Accidental Discharge) which always brings out of the woodwork some one who'll pontificate on the subject claiming that theres no such thing as an AD these are always ND (Negligent Discharges).
This mind set ignores some basic facts, one is that most accidents are caused by some sort of negligence somewhere down the line, these are still accidents. Another is that despite the hype no firearms mechanism is entirely immune to mechanical failures that can cause an accident to happen.
Mechanical failures may be due to a part becoming worn or deformed or broken. For example a broken firing pin tip can become jammed tight in the breech face causing a slamfire when a round is jacked into the chamber.

The pretense that a "modern fire arm" can't possibly "go off by itself" is probably the major cause of accidental discharges.
This rates right up there with "dry firing can't harm a fire arm", I've replaced too many broken firing pins and found too many wallowed out firing pin holes with the edges turned up like a cookie cutter to believe that. I would add broken hammers to that list, but of the four broken hammers I've run across these were all on revolvers manufactured before WW2 so metalurgy may have played a part there.