Brown Bess - Stupid Question

[Gunor]

I found a fairly nice Pedersoli Brown Bess for $276.25. I am assuming 70/80' vintage.

Got the serial number - is there an easy way to find the year?

Stupid Question - should I buy it?

Wanted a flintlock, and it is military, and a very good brand, and...

Wood needs a refinish - but no really bad nicks or 'divets'.

Steel - some rust - not really a 'patina' type. I would bring the metal back to white.

Bore - no light today - but ran the ramrod down (no ball) and it ran smoothly down the bore - not going over speed bumps.

After looking at my pictures (and finding the Pedersoli stamp...) I want it bad....

If I did buy it, have to buy a mold and flints and up my supply of 2F.....and bore brushes...

Sorry, just had to crow a little....

Geoff

[Skirmisher]

Google "Italian Proof Dates".

There's a proof date code on the barrel which is probably a set of double alpha characters such as AA or BD.

And yes it's worth crowing about at that price assuming nothing has been living in the barrel.

[Gunor]

Still have to buy it....

[prsman23]

The new ones go for about a grand. I'd say get it.

[waksupi]

Good price. It will whack you good shooting round ball!

[Boogieman]

My Bess shoots the service load ,80gr, FFG with a .735 RB quite well. Not at all unplesant, but it sure eats into the lead supply.

[fouronesix]

276 is theft, not purchase! The feel and sound of shooting the big smoothbores is unique.

Date codes and proof marks should be somewhere on the barrel.

Here's a link to Italian date codes:
http://www.shotgunworld.com/bbs/viewtopic.php?t=73492

[Gunor]

I bought it today

the minor rust cleans very easily with 0000 and clp

bore looks great

pictures later

1984 vintage

[DIRT Farmer]

1 1/8th oz of shot, 11 ga wads and 80 grains of ffg. Use it for what most of the origonals were retired to.

I have taken mor than 20 turkeys with mine.

[Gunor]

120018

[doc1876]

I sold one a year ago for a grand of course it was perfect. if this has the Grice lock, take it off and look inside of it they are usually jeweled this makes for a very fast lock time.

[Gunor]

Take down:

Grice lock that is jeweled inside the lock plate.

Trying to take pictures, it looks like the barrel has slightly pushed the left side of the stock out a the lock side plate (left side) - too much recoil and not enough bearing area. The wood is cracked, a little, from the barrel channel to the lock side plate. I think I need to epoxy bed the barrel plug and maybe an inch of the rear portion of the barrel - so there is more bearing area. Might relive some of the wood inside the barrel channel. The barrel pins where slightly bend - so I am thinking that the barrel moved back and bent the pins.

I'll try some pictures tomorrow.

if any one has good repair ideas....

I need to order supplies and balls from TOW

geoff

[fouronesix]

Hard to say what caused the barrel set back. With normal BP loads under a roundball, the recoil is not at all bad in a full sized Brown Bess. Barrel could have been a little loosy goosy in the stock to begin with.

I think you're approaching the repairs in the right way. I'd get the parts all lined up again, then start relieving a little wood for bedding and carefully opening cracks a few at a time and start reinforcing into the cracks with compound. Try to match color of wood with coloring agent in compound. It may take a few sessions, working one area at a time, including tang area and around and under the lock. Done correctly, it will be much stronger than it was to begin with.

Replacing the barrel cross pins shouldn't be hard to do. Basically, three parts have to "line up" correctly to be perfectly functional- barrel, lock and trigger. Once satisfied with repairs, lightly sand old finish off and re-apply desired finish. I think many of the old original military stocks of that era were simply dipped in BLO and wiped off. But, probably be best to use a wood sealing varnish on the interior parts then simply hand apply a few, rubbed-in coats of BLO to the exterior for an original looking exterior finish.

Once done and functional, it will be well worth the small $ investment and the sweat equity.

[Gunor]

Thanks for the info. I am in the process of prepping for the glass bedding. And sharping my chisels.

also, I wish I bought .715 balls instead of .735 from TOW. I did measure my bore, at least at the muzzle - .750.

hopefully I get all of the fixes done before next weekend - so I can fix it.

[fouronesix]

Hard to say about which roundball - patch combination will work best. Smoothbores are a law unto themselves. Sometimes a loose patched ball bore fit works best and sometimes a tighter patched ball bore fit works best. Sometimes a smaller ball along with a much thicker patch works best. Sometimes a larger ball with thinner patch works best. Just have to shoot and find out.

For certain, the big push and hollow whooom sound of the large bore is unique!

[Boogieman]

In my Bess & 20guage smooth bores a larger ball & thin patch seem to shoot cleaner, the tighter fit helps the powder burn cleaner. I like a combo. that can be started with hard thumb pressure, no short starter.

[crowbarforge]

In my smoothbore (20 ga) I use a cardboard OP wad, .610 RB and a lubed blanket wool punched wad to hold ball onto powder. That worked best for me. I do like the sound of that Bess going off!

[PTS]

Gunor-go to the Pedersoli web site and find their contact info. Email them the serial # and the questions that you have. They have been very helpful and prompt and professional with me when I have done that.

[gnoahhh]

Are you sure the bore is .750? My old Pedersoli, and all of my buddies in the Regiment, is around .725. We shoot .690 balls with 80gr. FFg, rolled in newspaper cartridges which makes it just right for effortless loading for multiple shots. I can hit a gallon milk jug no sweat at 50 yards, and enough times at 100 yards to be a real threat.

[Gunor]

Gnoahhh,
an update. I have stripped the stock. The poly was tough. Using min wax Tung Oil Finish. Still thinking about that finish. Breech end is glass bedded - looks ok.

Bore diameter - measured with a Starrett telescoping gage (w/micrometer) - .750 or so.

I bought some .735 balls from Track of the Wolf - a couple of wraps of heavy newsprint - goes down the barrel just fine. Actually a nice fit, if I am going to make some rolled cartridges. We'll see how the sizing works with some fouling.

I am letting the finish dry. I'll start assembling it and polish the brass. As a note, some of the barrel cross pins where bent - lack of good bedding at the breech end - I ordered some 2.5 mm drill rod for replacement. Not a cost effective repair/replacement - somewhat dumb - but at least it is still all 'factory' grade of replacement.

geoff in oregon

[fouronesix]

Sounds like progress. Most interested in how it shoots.

With some good bedding around the tang and rear end there shouldn't be much set back from recoil. Those drill stock pins are going to be stiff/hard. They will work fine but are not forgiving. Expect a little movement between barrel and stock over time- even if it is just stock shrink/swell from changes in humidity. It would be a good idea to slightly elongate the pin through holes in the barrel tenons so the cross pins can move fore and aft a little in the tenons and not in the wood. Just a little preventative design that won't affect the secure hold in the stock.

[Gunor]

The drill rod, that I got, is 'fairly' soft - very close to hardness as the original pins - via the needle file hardness test.

pictures this weekend, shooting next weekend (lack of daylight time and not together). The walnut stock has some really nice looking grain and highlights - kinda of pretty. But pix's later.

Minwax Tung Oil finish - not even close to knowing anything about wood finishing. Applied a coat last night, kind of sticky after a few minutes. Nothing bad, but must be from the 'shellac (?)' portion of the finish. Let dry overnight - nice looking for one coat. I did knock it down with 0000 and re-coated - so I am waiting......

The he last few military stocks I finished, I have used boiled linseed oil. From my point of view - apply and it dries (no stickiness). Re-apply - once a day for a week, once a week.....So I like boiled linseed from the application point of view.

Geoff in Oregon

go Seahawks

[Gunor]

122960
122961

Two of pictures of the finished product. Grain of the walnut - very striking.

Used Tung oil (Minwax) for the finish. Not shown is the forearm - a little light then my preference.

Bright metal - used 400 grit and WD40. Could of been brighter with more work and finer grit - but....

geoff in oregon

[mj2evans]

Very nice ... I gotta save up for one of these.

[Gunor]

Shot it finally today.

123789

20 yards or so.

learned lessons:

First large FL.

i thought I cleaned the breech face - prior owner used paper cartridges - I do not think he poured the powder down first, because there was paper on the face. Used a scaper before the range. I got to the tenth shot - and had a failure to fire - used a pick, and reprimed about six times. I finally took my really flexible pick and probably went to the other side of the barrel. Dislodge something, and fired just fine. Breech scraper again - large chunk of what looked like newsprint.

Used moose milk for patch lube

Trigger - a little too much take up. Coupled with my flinch and the flash/bang of the flintlock - pushed a few balls the wrong way. I'll probably work the trigger over a little.

.727 balls and 'drill' cotton patches - could be a little tighter. I was able to load 10 ball without any problems - moose milk patches. Jeff Tanner mold - nice work and good price.

80 grains of 2F. At this load my limited supply of powder is not going to last. Recoil, I was suppressed how well I handled it - I was kinda of concerned for the recoil...brass butt plate and not a well fitting stock.

geoff in Oregon

[DIRT Farmer]

80 grains would be a right snappy load, you might want to try 60, more fun and the powder lasts longer. A bouling ball will still knock things down moving slow.