Setting up a poll: how to? for separate AR Form....

[minmax]

I know I am just a newbie at this site, but seems like a lot of people want to cast and shoot for the AR in all different calibers. It would be nice to have it's own forum and get it out of the CB Loads/ Military Rifles.
Any Thoughts?

[ipijohn]

I shoot 5.56 and 300BO in ARs, both with cast, and see no reason to have a separate forum.

I shoot the same in AR but I also load 15 other cals so I have to look all over any how.

[minmax]

Setting up a poll: how to? for separate AR Forum....
I know I am just a newbie at this site, but seems like a lot of people want to cast and shoot for the AR in all different calibers. It would be nice to have it's own forum and get it out of the CB Loads/ Military Rifles.
Any Thoughts?

[303Guy]

I'm on the fence for this one. A semi-auto sub-forum might make sense but then it's all military and cast boolits. There does seem to be a division between modern military rifles and yesterdays rifles but even so, I'm not sure. It would be interesting to see what other members feel.

The black powder paper patcher's wanted their own sub-forum and got one. They're happy but I do actually miss them but then nothing stops me from visiting their section.

I do find the Black Out threads interesting and those are mainly (if not exclusively) AR's. Garands and M1 carbines are of interest to me too. So I guess I would prefer the singe sub-forum as we have it.

[waksupi]

I think they are right where they belong.

[BruceB]

I have an AR15.

I have an M1A.

I have an FAL.

I have a Garand, and an M1 Carbine.

I have Krags, and Lee Enfields, and Springfields.

WE have a forum devoted to cast bullets in military rifles..... ALL military rifles, all of which interest me.

I like it this way. Splintering -off specific rifle types into separate forums will serve no good purpose. All we have to do is read the thread titles, and skim over subjects which don't hold any personal interest.

[dondiego]

What BruceB said...........I don't have an FAL though! I do have an Egyptian Hakim in 8MM though!

[Scharfschuetze]

To be honest, I always wondered why there wasn't already an AR based forum here.

While I have a Colt HBAR AR15, it's strictly a jacketed bullet shooter for National Match competition and plinking at longer ranges, often at prairie dogs. Blasphemy I guess, but I just skip over the "black rifle" threads as I have never developed an interest in shooting cast boolits in my AR.

[Jack Stanley]

I like seeing the AR work in the military forum and the CB loads/military forum I check both of those daily and it never seems to be to full that I miss the AR stuff . If I do a search for AR there are about a gadzillion posts to look at . I think it seems to be working well as it is .

Jack

[Pinsnscrews]

An AR is a Civilian Model Military rifle. If you wanted a splinter forum, a better suggestion might be CB/Military Manual Guns and CB/Military Self Loading Guns

[minmax]

O.K. I did not mean to step on anybody's toes. A better choice words would have/should have been, modern sporting rifle or maybe CB/semi-automatic sporting rifles and semi-automatic firearms to include the AR15 variants. Yes, I am well aware that the AR 15 platform is the civilian version of the M16/M4 Military Rifle/carbine. The whole point of my thoughts; there are two Military forums and no semi-automatic section for any type of firearm and no specific CB/semi-auto section. I also have an interest Military Rifles, Cowboy Action shooting, Metallic Black Powder Cartridge reloading, General Boolit Casting, Different Alloys and Metallurgy, Studying different Mould designs, Reading and Learning about Calibers, Rifles and Handguns that I Do Not Own or Will Never Own. Mostly because Life is to Short and not enough Wealth to fuel my obsession. I enjoy learning all that I can. Sorry for the rant. I love all of you guys for helping me on my quest for knowledge. Thanks....

[Wayne Smith]

Of course, one of the Old Wives Tales is that you can't shoot boolits in an auto rifle. Having an Auto Rifle/Gas Gun subforum just might be interesting. There are some very specific issues to these and having that information gathered together may make it worth while. This coming from a guy who shoots none of these rifles!

[bruce drake]

I'm on the side of developing a subforum for ARs and other Semiautomatic Modern Sporting Rifles in the Commercial Rifle section of the Forum. I own several ARs in the following calibers 223 Rem/5.56; 7.62x39, 300 BLK and 6.5 Grendel and I shoot cast in ALL of them.

I will probably add two or three more calibers for the AR15 before I probably move up to an AR10 chassis for the 308 family of cartridges...Not to mention that last year I built a 7x57 Garand...and there is a manufacturer in Montana currently building an AR for 30-06 length cartridges...

I'll even step forward to help moderate the forum and provide guidance for others on shooting cast in these rifles.

Bruce

[mdi]

I believe most of the info needed will be covered in the CB Loads/Military Rifles sub forum. Go here...http://www.perfectunion.com/vb/ar-15-talk/
(http://www.perfectunion.com/vb/ar-15-talk/)

[dragon813gt]

I'm usually one of the first to say we don't need any more forums. But there is no correct forum for modern semiautomatic rifles. There are some that get mad when you post about them in the Military Rifle forum. We don't need an AR specific forum. There is a whole site dedicated to them.

[30calflash]

How about a sticky concerning cast in this section? That would help possibly.

Choose the best article thus far and let it go!

[Moonie]

I'm usually one of the first to say we don't need any more forums. But there is no correct forum for modern semiautomatic rifles. There are some that get mad when you post about them in the Military Rifle forum. We don't need an AR specific forum. There is a whole site dedicated to them.

So you feel we should run AR users off to other forums? I'm fairly certain those other forums do their best to discourage cast loads in AR's. I agree we should have a sub forum for auto loading rifles, maybe not AR specific but certainly the differences between auto loaders and non auto loaders should be reason enough to warrant its own sub forum.

Single shots have their own...

[minmax]

mdi,
I went over to the perfect union. It's just another AR site just like all the rest. I saw nothing about casting or shooting lead. Thanks though.

Bruce Drake,
at least I have one person on my side. This is the first and only site I have joined. I want to know about casting lead boolits and shooting for modern sporting rifles, which includes the AR and other factory semi-autos. If I did not. I could just simply buy j-words or buy lead bullets from some commercial outfit. Reload them and go shoot. Unfortunately, I have been bitten by the Mould and lead bug.

[dragon813gt]

So you feel we should run AR users off to other forums?

Did I say that? Then don't read into it any more than what was written. I said we don't need an AR specific forum. If all you want to discuss is ARs there are other sites for that. If you want to discuss all semiauto rifles then I'm all ears.

[bruce drake]

Folks,

I've put a poll up under the Factory Rifles thread group to see how many people are interested in developing a subforum there for information on shooting ARs as well as all other Modern Sporting Rifles with cast boolits. Make your vote known as I made the poll active for 30 days. Simple yea/nay vote and our Moderators can then determine based off the comments/interest in the thread as well as the actual yes/no voting.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?257298-Developing-an-AR-MSR-subforum-within-the-Factory-Rifle-forum

I stand by my willingness to moderate the subforum as I am a dedicated cast rifle shooter and I enjoy passing my knowledge along to others. Visit the link and make your vote known.

Bruce

[garym1a2]

At least two. when I look for aR info I need to look at least 3 sub forums here. Nice if it was all in one spot.

mdi,
I went over to the perfect union. It's just another AR site just like all the rest. I saw nothing about casting or shooting lead. Thanks though.

Bruce Drake,
at least I have one person on my side. This is the first and only site I have joined. I want to know about casting lead boolits and shooting for modern sporting rifles, which includes the AR and other factory semi-autos. If I did not. I could just simply buy j-words or buy lead bullets from some commercial outfit. Reload them and go shoot. Unfortunately, I have been bitten by the Mould and lead bug.

[JSnover]

lot of people want to cast and shoot for the AR in all different calibers. It would be nice to have it's own forum and get it out of the CB Loads/ Military Rifles.
Any Thoughts?
It is a military rifle, isn't it? The AR has a huge following but it's still a military rifle platform being adapted to sporting use.

[FLHTC]

I know I am just a newbie at this site, but seems like a lot of people want to cast and shoot for the AR in all different calibers. It would be nice to have it's own forum and get it out of the CB Loads/ Military Rifles.
Any Thoughts?

I agree! Mine is a sporting rifle, not a military rifle. The only military rifles I own are an Arisaka 99 and a Mauser 98 because they were actually in the military. Everything else is a sporting rifle to me. If all that nonsense were true about pistol grips and telescoping stocks making a gun an assault weapon, then a track loader could be labeled as a battle tank because it travels on treads.

[MaryB]

AR-15.com is not a user friendly forum. Plus there are several know it alls who will tell you it will not work, it will blow up your rifle, your rifle is a piece of junk anyway so go blow it up... not very friendly over there compared to here.

[Moonie]

Did I say that? Then don't read into it any more than what was written. I said we don't need an AR specific forum. If all you want to discuss is ARs there are other sites for that. If you want to discuss all semiauto rifles then I'm all ears.

I never said you did say that, but you certainly inferred it, that is why I worded my response the way I did, it was a question. You are free to play all the word games you wish but I certainly will never advise anyone to go to any other site for cast boolit information, especially not semi-auto's, and most especially not the AR-15 platform.

[mdi]

I don't have an opinion either yea or nay, because I control my mouse and what I look at, but out of curiosity I searched "cast in AR" http://castboolits.gunloads.com/google.php?cx=partner-pub-6216953551359885%3A1942134700&cof=FORID%3A9&ie=ISO-8859-1&q=cast+in+AR&sa.x=13&sa.y=12&siteurl=castboolits.gunloads.com%2Fshowthread.php% 3F257158-Setting-up-a-poll-how-to-for-separate-AR-Forum%26p%3D2977961%23post2977961&ref=castboolits.gunloads.com%2Fmember.php%3F5844-mdi&ss=4580j2891670j11 Seems like there's some folks discussing cast bullets in ARs already...

[bruce drake]

I'm one of those folks discussing cast in ARs in that thread.

Just think of this. You found several cast bullet threads spread across the entire forum. It would be easier for a member to go to a concise location and get the same information. More efficient that way. More helpful.

Bruce

[runfiverun]

not gonna happen.

I have made about 50 posts on shooting cast in the Ar type rifles.
I spelled out loads, alloy's, prep, and boolit styles to use.
I have shown pictures.
I have shown groups.
nobody but the guy asking cared..

[dromia]

This forum is about cast boolits, the more forums we have drifting away from that the more we loose this places special quality and focus.

We have enough forum and sub forums as it is, personally I'd like to see us reduce the number not increase it.

Much as we like to be a one stop shop forum that cater for all our shooting interests the focus has to be on cast boolits and bullet casting not on firearm types.

I am sure there must be other forums around that cater for those interests.

[waksupi]

There was much campaigning for the .22 rimfire section. It languishes in the dust, forlorn, and nearly forgotten, with one of the lowest post counts on the board. Arguably, there are far more .22 owners, than those with AR's here.

[Moonie]

There was much campaigning for the .22 rimfire section. It languishes in the dust, forlorn, and nearly forgotten, with one of the lowest post counts on the board. Arguably, there are far more .22 owners, than those with AR's here.

How many people do we have that are loading cast in 22rf? I don't own a .22 but I do own 2 AR's and cast and load in both, in fact one of them has never seen jacketed bullets.

[Moonie]

not gonna happen.

I have made about 50 posts on shooting cast in the Ar type rifles.
I spelled out loads, alloy's, prep, and boolit styles to use.
I have shown pictures.
I have shown groups.
nobody but the guy asking cared..

This is just plain not true, there was interest shown and this subject comes up regularly.

[mdi]

No offense to anyone this morning, but it just sounds to me like some group demanding equal time, equal rights, just because they can. All I can say is if I want information, I have the largest library in the world right inside my keyboard. I don't think this forum can afford to cater to each and every "interest" remotely dealing with casting bullets for any firearm as there is already 49 sub-forums in use. I'm sure there would be quite a few interested in a Colt and Cast forum, or a Single Action Casting, or a Cast in My Ruger sub-forum.

But not to worry, I was in favor of a Coatings and Alternative sub-forum and there was enough support to start it. I'm sure if there is enough interest, a Cast for AR sub-forum may work out (don't forget to ask for a sub-sub-forum for AKs and SKS rifles, and the Berettas and HK battle rifles).

jes an old guy's thinkin'...

[runfiverun]

moonie.
there wasn't enough interest for anyone to pm me or to even really ask a question.

I wrote a 4 post dissertation on shooting cast at 2800 fps with accuracy on par with jacketed in the Ar rifles and got crickets.
in fact there is a high velocity with accuracy thread running right now with about 4 participants and about 6 watchers.
we can't garner any interest in the most complicated thing we do in our hobby [shrug]

[MaryB]

I have been reading all the threads about shooting cast in an AR, I have a lee bator mold I have been using in my bolt gun in a reduced power load for small game and want to expand into AR ammo for cheap target practice.


not gonna happen.

I have made about 50 posts on shooting cast in the Ar type rifles.
I spelled out loads, alloy's, prep, and boolit styles to use.
I have shown pictures.
I have shown groups.
nobody but the guy asking cared..

[bruce drake]

There was much campaigning for the .22 rimfire section. It languishes in the dust, forlorn, and nearly forgotten, with one of the lowest post counts on the board. Arguably, there are far more .22 owners, than those with AR's here.

Waksupi,

I have a feeling that casting for and reloading 22LR is even more of a niche environment than casters who focus on the old single-shot Schuetzen rifles...And perhaps it will recover when the stocks of ready for purchase 22LR returns to previous levels.

As a senior moderator, So where would you put a question from a forum member on a 220gr subsonic 300 Blackout failure to eject from a AR15 in a pistol configuration with a 9" barrel?

Its a Modern Sporting Rifle/Pistol based off an AR15 design but configured and registered as a pistol chambered in a caliber never used in the military..

It could be an issue of the gas port not being large enough, perhaps the gas tube is misaligned so not all the gas is being shot back enough to complete the cycle of fire, or perhaps it is his gas tube should not be the pistol-length pigtail that he decided to buy at his local LGS because he thought it would look cool on his rifle.

Or perhaps, he reloaded a new power in his 300BLK that doesn't have enough force to fully send the bolt back...

I'm just being the advocate for the sub-forum, but I'm also trying to see both sides on this potential new place for weapons newer than 1945 to be discussed

Bruce

[bruce drake]

No offense to anyone this morning, but it just sounds to me like some group demanding equal time, equal rights, just because they can. All I can say is if I want information, I have the largest library in the world right inside my keyboard. I don't think this forum can afford to cater to each and every "interest" remotely dealing with casting bullets for any firearm as there is already 49 sub-forums in use. I'm sure there would be quite a few interested in a Colt and Cast forum, or a Single Action Casting, or a Cast in My Ruger sub-forum.

But not to worry, I was in favor of a Coatings and Alternative sub-forum and there was enough support to start it. I'm sure if there is enough interest, a Cast for AR sub-forum may work out (don't forget to ask for a sub-sub-forum for AKs and SKS rifles, and the Berettas and HK battle rifles).

jes an old guy's thinkin'...

MDI,

We are discussing the potential to create a sub-forum to discuss ARs and Modern Sporting Rifle. These are the civilian single-shot versions of the military rifles you are mentioning in your post. A Saiga in 223 is based off the AK but there are subtle but important differences in operation from the Russian AK-47. And there is already a forum for military battle rifles and we aren't advocating taking those threads over. We are discussing rifles that don't fall under the role of "Military" but are semi-automatic in nature and internally as well as externally different from military rifles. The subforum would not cover a Browning 1918 BAR but if a cast boolit shooter is trying to get his civilian BAR in 270 Remington to shoot with cast, than that would fall under the MSR aspect as you'd never be able to think the two types of BARs are the same system despite the same names...

[bruce drake]

I have been reading all the threads about shooting cast in an AR, I have a lee bator mold I have been using in my bolt gun in a reduced power load for small game and want to expand into AR ammo for cheap target practice.

To use your AR in 223 with that 55gr Bator mold on squirrels, use 5gr of Unique. Velocity should be just about 1300fps. It will not fully operate your bolt in the AR but it makes for a dandy little singleshot straight-pull rifle for small game. I use gas checks despite the slow speed to help make the bases more consistent.

For a functional AR load for your 55gr AR, there are already threads in place on that. Here is one list of several threads developed in the past on this forum:
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/google.php?cx=partner-pub-6216953551359885%3A1942134700&cof=FORID%3A9&ie=ISO-8859-1&q=bator+AR&siteurl=castboolits.gunloads.com%2Findex.php&ref=&ss=46212j1514790632j30&sa.x=0&sa.y=0

[bruce drake]

runfiverun,

I've seen that thread every day for a while in my new post listing but because it didn't have AR in the subject title or other subjects I'm interested in, I put it on the side burner with the other nearly 1000 post updates a day that this forum sees.

I'll make a point of visiting the thread in the morning to see what you've done as I also like the ability to shoot lead on par with jacketed loads.

Bruce

moonie.
there wasn't enough interest for anyone to pm me or to even really ask a question.

I wrote a 4 post dissertation on shooting cast at 2800 fps with accuracy on par with jacketed in the Ar rifles and got crickets.
in fact there is a high velocity with accuracy thread running right now with about 4 participants and about 6 watchers.
we can't garner any interest in the most complicated thing we do in our hobby [shrug]

[bruce drake]

Dromia,

Cast boolits in an AR and other MSRs is the focus. Separately providing the Factory Rifle section allows the Remingtons and the Savage continue to be discussed while the subforum retains the questions of users of the newer modern semi-automatic rifles and allow them to solve their questions.

Our special quality and focus comes from our willingness to meet new casters to the forum and quide them through the learnings the science of casting for our firearms..

We are the premier cast bullet loading and shooting forum in the US. Many search websites send new people to our forum every day. I average seeing over a 1000 new posts a day on this forum. Not all of are from the stalwart old guard of posters but we are seeing a new influx of reloaders/casters here in the US. Both from the shortage of ammunition as well as the perception that one political party has a core principle of taking our 2nd Amendment, the number of new gunowners are expanding every day.
With more shooters, the current shortage of supplies of the components will send shooters to our posts more and more every day. So why not cater to the new shooters who rushed out to buy a AR15 or a civilian variant AK47 and now want to learn about the skill of casting your own.


This forum is about cast boolits, the more forums we have drifting away from that the more we loose this places special quality and focus.

We have enough forum and sub forums as it is, personally I'd like to see us reduce the number not increase it.

Much as we like to be a one stop shop forum that cater for all our shooting interests the focus has to be on cast boolits and bullet casting not on firearm types.

I am sure there must be other forums around that cater for those interests.

[303Guy]

You make a strong argument in favour of a dedicated AR sub-forum, Bruce.

[Garyshome]

Why is the always someone around here somewhere who wants to rock the boat?

[dragon813gt]

Why is the always someone around here somewhere who wants to rock the boat?

Why do some want things to stay the same and never change? Just playing devil's advocate.

Here is what it boils down to in my eyes. An AR is not a military rifle but that's the closest forum in regards to what it is. An AR is not a factory rifle since a good bit of them are built from parts. I won't even get into the pistol builds. Maybe it just requires some forum name changes ? Military changes to semi auto and factory changes to bolt? AR style rifles are part of what's driving the firearm industry. They're what's brining a lot of younger guys into the hobby. How many of them will want to discuss cast is up in the air. But not all threads in the guns and shooting forum are about shooting cast. There are lots of picture threads and general question threads.

[bruce drake]

Thank you,

I'm just trying to develop a proper "load" of reading on AR/MSRs for other members.

Bruce

P.S. On a personal note regarding on one of your quotes at the bottom of your Posts. My mother shared a birthday with your son. She was born in 1946 so she's a bit old now for birthday cakes or so she claims... :)


You make a strong argument in favour of a dedicated AR sub-forum, Bruce.

[whisler]

moonie.
there wasn't enough interest for anyone to pm me or to even really ask a question.

I wrote a 4 post dissertation on shooting cast at 2800 fps with accuracy on par with jacketed in the Ar rifles and got crickets.
in fact there is a high velocity with accuracy thread running right now with about 4 participants and about 6 watchers.
we can't garner any interest in the most complicated thing we do in our hobby [shrug]
I have read every post on that thread with great interest... and I have never cast a rifle boolit...yet. I have nothing to post because I have no knowledge to contribute but find the thread very interesting.

[MaryB]

Sometimes the posts on loading for AR's disappear off the first page and I rarely click to the second. Having information in one spot would help a lot. Newbies with build issues could get answers, people looking to do upgrades could find opinions on add-ons or changes like a free float hand guard etc.

[303Guy]

I've often glanced at AR threads and thought to myself that these enthusiasts would be well served with their own sub-forum. If a new member comes on and feels that way I think we should all take notice. It could be a great way to get new AR owners interested in casting and we do want to grow the casting community.

bruce drake has kindly volunteered his services so it would not be more work for the mods.

I personally think that it should be an AR specific sub-forum. I enjoy the military auto-loaders being part of the military rifle sub-forum.

[minmax]

I would like Thank Bruce again, for heading up my original post. On how too set up a poll on a new AR, MSR SemiAuto thread.

303Guy, my stepson was born on 06/01/1986 he passed on 06/26/2001. Due to a fall a cliff while we were camping.

[mdi]

Sounds like you want an AR civilian type sub-forum and all other semi-auto military style (or Modern Sporting Rifles) can go somewhere else. Are you going to disallow civilian calibers and only focus on 5.56 Nato? Will pistol caliber ARs be allowed to participate? How about early production ARs with solid stock and no picatinny rails or only those with 3.45 pounds of "accessories"? And of course, a sub-sub-forum for those using standard open sights and another for those using optics...

But, like I said in my first post on this subject, I'm in control of my mouse and only click on those threads I want to see and I don't have to moderate any...

[Ajax]

This is a cast boolit forum. The rifles you are talking about are indeed factory rifles. I don't see a reason to have its own sub forum when it already has one, the fore mentioned. We keep adding sub forums this will turn into a nightmare trying to decide where things should go. I have seen on other forums where one sub forum will have 4 or 5 moved threads every day. That just makes more work for the mods and frustrates a lot of others.


Andy

[dkf]

So we have some people here whom think an AR15 belongs in the CB Loads Military Rifles Forum and some think it belongs in Factory Rifles.(some end up in the regular Military Rifles too) That right there should give an obvious clue there might be a problem.

My AR15s are built from parts thus they don't belong under factory rifles. None are M4s or M16s so they really don't fall under military rifles but it fits that better than factory rifles I guess. It gets old scanning several forums to find stuff on ARs so I end up just saying screw it.(the search function is horrid and I have given up on it) What we currently have is broken IMO and we seem to have lots of people whom don't care to hear it.

[dragon813gt]

^
What he said. I know I mentioned in one thread about how a simple forum name change might be the easiest route. Drop Military and make it the SemiAuto forum. That covers all your bases and drives traffic to one forum. But this will upset some. I hate the number of forums here almost as much as the dead/worthless stickies that take up a good amount of the first page. This is one case where I think it's warranted. There is a coating forum for some reason.

[dkf]

Case in point, current AR15 threads in 3 different forums.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/forumdisplay.php?15-Factory-Rifles
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/forumdisplay.php?27-CB-Loads-Military-Rifles
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/forumdisplay.php?13-Military-Rifles

[35remington]

The thing that trips up all these demands for a new forum is that there aren't that many topics being posted about cast bullets in AR's.

It's a numbers thing, pure and simple. A forum dedicated to cast bullets in AR's would resemble chirping crickets more than an active forum. Witness the air rifle forum here. If it wasn't a numbers thing the SKS's could have their own cast bullet subforum, as they were and are quite popular. And the AK's and '03's and 17's ad infinitum. All are likely as popular, if not more so, in terms of actual cast bullet usage than AR's.

The idea is to have some kind of tie in to the cast bullet thing. That's where it all falls apart.

To the comments dragon made earlier, I might point out that a great many military rifles are not semiautos. The Military Rifles moniker is more appropriate and covers the genre (and bases) much better. To call it the SemiAuto forum would leave some rifles out and, perforce, require yet another forum to cover all of them. Not an improvement.

[dkf]

If everything is scattered about it is harder to find thus less results. (What we have now) You don't even need a dedicated forum, maybe a subforum. God knows there is enough stickies at the top of every forum that are never removed it would not matter having a subforum up there too.

Why have a Cast Bullets Military Rifles forum when you could just put everything in Military rifles forum. Sorry I fail to see how it makes much sense to throw in modern semi auto rifles in with war relic bolt guns well over 100 years old. You have other forums here listed as action type but then lump a butt load of guns together that really don't have much in common with each other. I guess what I'll end up doing is just closing down everything but the group buy section in my browser and ignore the rest.

[MaryB]

AR is not a military rifle anymore, it has been adapted to so many different uses and calibers that it really should have its own space. Factory rifles was one I saw as a suggestion, my AR is not a factory rifle, I built it to my specs for my needs.

[Ajax]

I disagree DKF all parts you use to build it are production parts. IMHO this makes it a production rifle. I think a sub forum wouldn't be a bad thing but where does that end. We added so many forums since i have been here and i see so little traffic to them. Some only have one or two posters regularly. I still think it's a bad idea but ultimately it's not our decision. Has anyone contacted No_1 about this idea? I hope i don't offend anyone this is just my opinion.

Andy

[500MAG]

A couple years ago, I posted something about the AR in the military rifle section and I was immediately attacked about it not being a military rifle. Now, I frequently see questions about the AR in there. I haven't had any problem finding info on what I need with the google search function.

[dragon813gt]

I think some are over looking that not just cast bullets are discussed on these forums. I went to the single shot forum as one example. Questions about sights and about making a 9mm Handi. So why are these threads allowed if it's just about cast bullets? Because it's not. The forums are broken down in an odd manner. Some by action type, some by ammo type and some have a few thrown all together like all the handguns. Break it down by action type w/ a separate single rimfire forum and call it a day. Is there really a need for a separate load section just for military rifles? Seems like there would be more traffic if all loads were discussed in one forum. Just throwing ideas out there.

[Ajax]

AR is not a military rifle anymore, it has been adapted to so many different uses and calibers that it really should have its own space. Factory rifles was one I saw as a suggestion, my AR is not a factory rifle, I built it to my specs for my needs.


Out of factory parts :bigsmyl2:


Andy

[dragon813gt]

Not alway and it's not a factory rifle. Would you call a custom built rifle on a Mauser action a military rifle? Or one built on a 700 action? After all the military does use them. If the discussion is supposed to be strictly about shooting cast bullets the mods have been slacking because there is a lot more being discussed.

[35remington]

The responses seem to be on the side of more traffic would come about if there were fewer forums. And a separate subforum for AR's would accomplish this how, exactly?

As I pointed out.....the thread count just isn't there. Address this point, please. Powder coating is a subject the forum needs to address to keep its "hand in" in terms of information. This site will never be seen as the font of information on whether your LaRue tactical additions are the best thing for your AR.....best to keep the information cast bullet related as this is the area of expertise here. If you want pure AR discussion and better advice about AR's, go to something like m4carbine.net.

Seems logical, no? Unless you decide that logical is irrelevant.

Military rifles are just that. Being a bolt action doesn't disqualify it, as they were indeed used by the military. Semiautos are a more recent iteration, but in cast bullet usage they are not dominant to other types.

I would appreciate posting a link to the thread where the guy was "attacked" for placing a post about an AR in the military rifles forum.

Believe it when I see it.....but don't let being correct in forum selection dissuade you. If you were right in selecting that forum, and sounds like you were, you were right.

This is the most used cast bullet site on the web. Most must be able to find what they want such that it's no big inconvenience. I'm not sure there's much of a real reason for concern, but it also must be understood that the idea to divide a forum into endless iterations has to be resisted to some degree.

[dkf]

I disagree DKF all parts you use to build it are production parts. IMHO this makes it a production rifle. I think a sub forum wouldn't be a bad thing but where does that end. We added so many forums since i have been here and i see so little traffic to them. Some only have one or two posters regularly. I still think it's a bad idea but ultimately it's not our decision. Has anyone contacted No_1 about this idea? I hope i don't offend anyone this is just my opinion.

Andy

"Military Rifles" are built from "Production Parts" more so with refurbished surplus with new parts added. You are advocating AR15s be in "Factory Rifles" others say they belong in "Military Rifles", as I said before that should give a clue there is some issue.


As I pointed out.....the thread count just isn't there. Address this point, please. Powder coating is a subject the forum needs to address to keep its "hand in" in terms of information. This site will never be seen as the font of information on whether your LaRue tactical additions are the best thing for your AR.....best to keep the information cast bullet related as this is the area of expertise here. If you want pure AR discussion and better advice about AR's, go to something like m4carbine.net.

I did but it lay upon deaf ears. Everything is scattered and often gets overlooked. I actually signed up for this to get started in cast with ARs. I cam over here to get in a mold GB for a NATO mold suitable for ARs. I was looking around for information in CB Military Rifles. Little did I know there were 2 other sections with AR stuff in them. In the last year alone hundreds of AR suitable molds were sold in group buys. Some things will grow if they are allowed.

As for M4Carine and AR15 sites. It is obvious you have never spent any amount of time on either. Good luck getting any kind of cast info out of those places or post and get hammered.

[rockrat]

I am of the thought that to leave it in the military rifle section. If I want an AR section only, then I will go to ARFCOM (AR15.com)

[dragon813gt]

You'd think that as firearm owners you'd not want civilian market ARs to be associated w/ their military counterparts. The media loves to play this up and everyone gets mad when they do it. I have little interest in ARs even though I built one. I do tend to read the threads about them. But I don't think I've even been to the paper patch or coatings forums. Pretty sure the AR market is a lot larger then both combined.

[35remington]

I spend considerable time on M4carbine.net. As I pointed out, if you want pure AR discussion and better information about AR's that is where to go. They are ignorant about cast bullets, agreed.

However......the AR/cast bullet issue is a really, really slow one. Really slow. This site needs a tie in to cast bullets, not a bunch of guys asking about tactical rails for which they're better off going elsewhere. Thus the moderators get to judge whether the topic count is gonna really be a tie in to cast bullets or a junior attempt at making an AR "cast bullet" forum into something mostly about equipment. Obviously this site is not about that.

The post count is really going to be low about cast bullets in AR's. Past evidence to that effect is ample. Tell me this.....why shouldn't the SKS have its own "cast bullet" subforum? They're popular too. For a while there everyone had one, and still has one, because they're cheap.

Why not post your own stickies in the military rifle forum about AR's and cast if you think a central source is lacking? Make it your own. Embrace the fact that it is in fact a military rifle.

It would also be helpful to note no other model of rifle has its own subforum here. You're asking for special treatment.

[dkf]

I spend considerable time on M4carbine.net.

It all makes sense now.... Thanks for taking the bait.


It would also be helpful to note no other model of rifle has its own subforum here. You're asking for special treatment.

I actually have been saying there is an obvious issue. I never came out and said ARs should have a dedicated forum. Your reading comprehension is horrid at best. But it is what I expect from someone whoms sole purpose here is an argument. But what else is new.

[35remington]

Sorry. Don't feel "baited." I don't ask for separate AR forums here as the title of this thread implies. I don't argue for their consolidation along different lines that suit my personal agenda, nor do I claim that the existing forums are poorly organized. Not a relevant point, so the feeling that' you've "scored" is yours alone. Can't see I've helped you make any "point."

I seem to find what I need here just fine, including cast in AR's as I have read threads here about the topic sufficient to guide me better than any other site I have found on the internet......by far. I am not a rocket scientist. Make of that what you will to counterpoint your claims that you have a hard time finding anything.

"I never came out and said AR's should have a dedicated forum."

Yet....you said this:

"Sorry I fail to see how it makes much sense to throw in modern semi auto rifles in with war relic bolt guns well over 100 years old."

Sounds an awful lot like asking for a dedicated forum along all new lines given AR's fit that definition. Others here have asked for that dedicated forum.....so that point is as much about them as it is about you, given the title of this thread. But you seem to have their sympathies to a considerable degree in your arguments, so if the shoe fits......

The fact that the site does not have a forum dedicated to a particular rifle model and sticks to categories was a point well worth making for this reason. It points out a conflict that the premise of the thread must be aligned with.

Also sounds like you feel that a "military rifle" section as exists here is a mistake. Since you're asking for both new forums made along new lines (that just happen to fit the preferences of a AR shooter who admits he came to this site ((post 52)) looking for cast bullet info and moulds) and the elimination of a quite long running and well attended forum........good luck with that.

To get what you want, it helps to avoid suggesting the successful forum divisions here are ill considered. Considerable past and current posting on this "poorly considered" forum implies that many find them adequate, and find what they need.

Since further argument is pointless due to the fact that moderators and the powers that be here will make the decisions that suit them in how to guide this site in the direction it needs to go, whatever needs to be said has been said.

Several moderators have spoken. You can decide which way they'll go if you want the exercise. I'm done with it.

[BruceB]

35 Remington has expressed points that I would have addressed, but he did it much better than whatever effort I might have made.

I am 100% in agreement with his stance.

I also think that anyone who believes an AR is NOT a "military rifle" is splitting semantic hairs.

There's no real need for a division of the information on this website into sub-groups for each rifle design, and the info specific to the AR-15 and its cousins/brothers is a few keystrokes away in "Search" (if one can't be bothered to read thread titles)..

My vote was cast (remember, 'way back at the beginning of the thread?) against the specific sub-forum for the AR series of rifles. There are many types of "military rifles" in my safe, including the AR-15, and I have no difficulty finding whatever discussions and data may exist here for each of the rifle types I own.

This topic is truly "much ado about nothing".... can we talk about RIFLES, and not minor administrative matters?

[FLHTC]

I can't believe how difficult it is to incorporate any change into this site. The poll for a dedicated AR forum now is at 77% in favor of one but the moderators still insist that there is no interest in one. I for one don't believe the AR is a service rifle, any more than a 1911 is still a service pistol. This site can be searched for CAST IN AR RIFLE topics and they're gathered from several places, instead of one.
Of these three pages, there are so many exaggerations to defend the absence of an AR forum but pure logic to defend it's presence. I don't get it. Instead of the moderators considering what the members want, they're telling the members what they don't need. Bias is one of the things that plague this forum. Everyone has an opinion and I just offered mine.

[btroj]

Interesting, the NRA and CMP consider the AR15 to be service rifles. Even stranger yet the 1911 is still the most commonly shot handgun in the CMP matches. Huh, what do they know.

What the mods are looking at isn't the interest of a few members but rather what is best for the forum as a whole. The idea of an optics forum was shot down in the past. The goal is to not have so many sub forums that nothing can be found.

The poll means nothing, how many people voted? I didn't, and I would have said no. Ever think that those who voted are largely those who are interested?

[35remington]

FLHTC, you don't find the statement of fact that there is no other forum on this site dedicated to a particular rifle model to be relevant to the discussion? Is this an exaggeration? Not pure logic?

I'd wonder why not, if you don't.

Bruce is right. I (we) should be talking about something else. The tea leaves have drifted; they just need to be read.

[FLHTC]

Interesting, the NRA and CMP consider the AR15 to be service rifles. Even stranger yet the 1911 is still the most commonly shot handgun in the CMP matches. Huh, what do they know.

What the mods are looking at isn't the interest of a few members but rather what is best for the forum as a whole. The idea of an optics forum was shot down in the past. The goal is to not have so many sub forums that nothing can be found.

The poll means nothing, how many people voted? I didn't, and I would have said no. Ever think that those who voted are largely those who are interested?

The poll means nothing. Precisely the point. So because the 1911 is shot in Civilian Marksmanship Program matches, all 1911's service pistols? Is everything built on a Mauser 98 action a service rifle too?

[FLHTC]

FLHTC, you don't find the statement of fact that there is no other forum on this site dedicated to a particular rifle model to be relevant to the discussion? Is this an exaggeration? Not pure logic?

I'd wonder why not, if you don't.

Bruce is right. I (we) should be talking about something else. The tea leaves have drifted; they just need to be read.

I never said all were an exaggeration, I said many. I hope the other replies weren't as poorly read as mine. There is an obvious difference of opinion on the desire for the forum but it's also obvious how the outcome is leaning, regardless of how many would like to see it. The AR sub-forum isn't the only thing to be shot down here, simply because the round table doesn't deem it necessary.

[btroj]

The poll means nothing. Precisely the point. So because the 1911 is shot in Civilian Marksmanship Program matches, all 1911's service pistols? Is everything built on a Mauser 98 action a service rifle too?

No, a Mauser isn't recognized as a service rifle by the CMP at all.

Are all 1911s a service pistol? No, and the differences are all cosmetic.

Think about it, you are arguing for a different forum based solely on cosmetic differences. What is next, a new forum for stainless handguns? Wood stocked rifles only?

I will say that I bet many feel quite comfortable posting in the military rifle forum about their sporterized military arms. Wonder why?

[35remington]

FLHTC, the fact that there is no forum representing a specific model of rifle on this site is one you (they) are gonna have an awful hard time getting past. Evenhandedness means.......no special treatment. The bell may toll for you (them) as well. The "roundtable" is suggesting that is more than fair, as most would likely expect.

If a response was not what you wanted....maybe the post was poorly written, not read.

[FLHTC]

FLHTC, the fact that there is no forum representing a specific model of rifle on this site is one you (they) are gonna have an awful hard time getting past. Evenhandedness means.......no special treatment. The bell may toll for you (them) as well. The "roundtable" is suggesting that is more than fair, as most would likely expect.

If a response was not what you wanted....maybe the post was poorly written, not read.

35,
What spawned my reaction was my visit to the poll, then reading the comments here. There was reference to another forum and how posts constantly are moved to the correct location. That error will happen, regardless of the topic being discussed. Another response was an adamant "No we don't need it". I began to ask myself who "We" were. Not every model of firearm is worthy of a specific forum but there are some that are. Thompson Center comes to mind. I find that particular firearm having it's own forum, along with other single shot firearms of a different manufacturer, on the same site. I'm not saying how this forum should be run like any other, I am just pointing out how forum members don't all think alike but it seems here, they must. The Ruger 10/22 is another semi automatic rifle that although a rimfire, took off like a bat out of hell and created it's own following. There are entire industries that grew from that rifle and while not a service rifle, it still earned a place away from every other rimfire rifle made, and certainly not due to cosmetics.

[Fishman]

An entire generation of new shooters is growing up with the Ar-15 and variants. This is not unlike the transition to the bolt action in the early 1900's. All of the lever guys decried the soul-less new approach to deer hunting. I am in neither of these camps. In the past couple of years I have become interested in Ar's and find the atmosphere in places like Ar-15.com to be tiresome at best.

When those new Ar-15 owners look around the net for information on everything AR, what will they find here? It would take a bit of digging to ferret out threads of interest to them, not because they aren't here, but because they aren't organized. If they visited the site and saw a subforum labeled "Ar-15" they might just stay a while. Judging from the whining and moaning from a very few of the old curmudgeons here, they would just as soon not see those new shooters here. I would also expect that it would make the moderators' jobs more difficult, as some of these young folk haven't learned to be civil in their discourse yet. The powers that be need to decide if this site's purpose is to bring new casters into the fold and inform the masses, or remain comfortably small where a group of casters discuss esoteric details that are often meaningful and interesting to but a few. I believe they tried to do both, with the "Team Boolits" discussion and trading sections, but old habits are hard to break, and those sections are pretty dead.

In the end, we are guests here, so whatever the owner/moderators decide is what will happen.

[35remington]

You're also asking them to open the floodgates. Why not a model 70, 700, 870, 94, 336, SKS, AK 1911, Glock etc forums as well. After all, we can bring zillions of new Glock shooters here convincing them they really CAN shoot cast through Glock barrels! A new forum is just what is needed to spread the word!

The moderators and site owners here would view the balkanization of this site with the same enthusiasm as a ninth grader has for his freshman literature class.

This site is quite large, the biggest cast bullet site on the net. Small does not apply to it. That draws 'em in already. A potential or current cast bullet shooter already knows it exists. A google search makes it spring right up. Fear not....it is prospering now.

[Bored1]

I think a seperate sub forum would be greatly appreciated. I know that since I have started looking for information on cast in ars it has been a needle in a haystack trying to find seperate information. But it appears to me that this conversation is the same as banging our heads on the wall, as it has been in the past.

If the majority is against this idea, then those of us that are interested will have to find our information/discussions elsewhere. Which is possible, and generally the way the world works. It would be great if it was 80 degrees all year round where I live, but that's not gonna happen so we all deal with it, or move to florida!

[montana_charlie]

I don't come to this site for information on AR rifles.
But, if I did, I would simply use the (new, improved) Google search feature to see what I could find.

Entering a simple "AR" (typed exactly that way) I got this page of results for the Cast Boolits website.
http://www.google.com/cse?cx=001951264366462437169%3Aggn3vg-bjum&ie=UTF-8&q=%22AR%22&sa=Search#gsc.tab=0&gsc.q=%22AR%22&gsc.page=1

Anybody asking for a dedicated subforum because he can't find anything in the present configuration should probably be required to turn in his electronic devices to the computer police.

CM

[FLHTC]

But we need a Group Buy Archive, which hasn't been posted in since August?

[35remington]

You've heard the moderator's opinions. Time to call it, and also to understand the reasons special treatment extends to nobody here as a way of fairness to everyone. Otherwise there would be a new subgroup clamoring for equal time.....and site Balkanization runs amok.

Charlie, nice demo on how to search here. Didn't seem all that hard.

[FLHTC]

You've heard the moderator's opinions. Time to call it, and also to understand the reasons special treatment extends to nobody here as a way of fairness to everyone. Otherwise there would be a new subgroup clamoring for equal time.....and site Balkanization runs amok.

Charlie, nice demo on how to search here. Didn't seem all that hard.


Looks like somehow you've been given the wheel. Another stunning revelation.

[35remington]

If I can think of these things in refutation of the idea of having a special model specific forum, I guarantee you the moderators are two steps ahead of me as it's their job.

The stunning thing is that these arguments against are a revelation to you. If I can make these very logical observations simply from how the site is structured and run over time, you should also be able to do so. For whatever reason, you can't.

i presume you have never moderated a forum and don't understand the issues that are involved. I moderate elsewhere on the net. I empathize with those here because I can.

[35remington]

You didn't read the disclaimer by the group buy archive. It is not intended for posting.

That is not something that can be complained about.

[FLHTC]

If I can think of these things in refutation of the idea of having a special model specific forum, I guarantee you the moderators are two steps ahead of me as it's their job.

The stunning thing is that these arguments against are a revelation to you. If I can make these very logical observations simply from how the site is structured and run over time, you should also be able to do so. For whatever reason, you can't.

i presume you have never moderated a forum and don't understand the issues that are involved. I moderate elsewhere on the net. I empathize with those here because I can.

I'm sorry i can't determine any logic being used but It's clear to see the blatant denial of what some members want. However the forum is structured, doesn't dictate how the forum could evolve.
No I have never moderated a forum, because it closely parallels control. That is something I have no taste for but sadly, a few here do.
I'm not trying to break any rules or act defiantly, I'm simply trying to change something and if you know an alternate method of doing so, please feel free to interject. For that you seem quite adept.

[btroj]

So we should have a forum for anything the members want?

We need a pewter forum. Most pewter is lead free and therefore doesn't belong in the lead alloy forum. I want to read about pewter and grow tired of needing to search all over for the info I want.

Yep, this argument is that silly.

[35remington]

Apply this simple observation. In all the time this site has existed, they've never seen fit to introduce model specific forums for firearms.

Why is that so? Is it sheer chance it turned out that way, or was it a conscious choice? What reasons might they have for making such a decision? How likely are they to stick with that?

That should help in understanding if the thought process is followed through.

[montana_charlie]

Charlie, nice demo on how to search here. Didn't seem all that hard.
You're right, it's simple.

Next, we wait to find out if that ability to search for and find ten pages of AR-specific discussions right here on CB will satisfy minmax and FLHTC ... or if they are more about 'changing the site' than 'finding information'.





But we need a Group Buy Archive, which hasn't been posted in since August?
Archived material (by definition) has been put away in case it's wanted later, not something to be changed, added to, or contested.
It's also frowned upon if you scribble in the margins of the Encyclopedia at the library.

CM

[dkf]

So we should have a forum for anything the members want?


That only applies to those in the right clique apparently.

[Bored1]

So we should have a forum for anything the members want?

We need a pewter forum. Most pewter is lead free and therefore doesn't belong in the lead alloy forum. I want to read about pewter and grow tired of needing to search all over for the info I want.

Yep, this argument is that silly.


Maybe you're on to something there btroj! Since pewter got a few stickies maybe an cast in the ar could have one too??? I would be okay with that too. Just a starting point for everyone to read and discuss the common practices, issues involved, etc. I thank you for your suggestion, and second the motion for a cast in ar sticky thread in whatever forum the mods deem appropriate.

[Fishman]

moonie.
there wasn't enough interest for anyone to pm me or to even really ask a question.

I wrote a 4 post dissertation on shooting cast at 2800 fps with accuracy on par with jacketed in the Ar rifles and got crickets.
in fact there is a high velocity with accuracy thread running right now with about 4 participants and about 6 watchers.
we can't garner any interest in the most complicated thing we do in our hobby [shrug]

I realize this is a post from earlier in this thread but I think it exemplifies the issue at hand. There are a LOT of people who want to cast bullets and shoot them . . . and that's it. Very few people have the knowledge, skill, and ability to make and shoot little tiny bullets very fast. I find such discussions very interesting, but realize that with my limited time and budget, it isn't for me. I would suggest that the average Ar-15 owner coming to the site for information would find such a thread to be of little use, when all they want to do to start with is make a bullet, reload it , and get their Ar to cycle. So citing this as a referendum on the interest in a general Ar-15 forum is not a reasonable position.

My suggestion in another thread was to create a "semiautomatic rifle" forum, to go with the levergun and single shot forums. It just makes sense.

[FLHTC]

You're right, it's simple.

Next, we wait to find out if that ability to search for and find ten pages of AR-specific discussions right here on CB will satisfy minmax and FLHTC ... or if they are more about 'changing the site' than 'finding information'.





Archived material (by definition) has been put away in case it's wanted later, not something to be changed, added to, or contested.
It's also frowned upon if you scribble in the margins of the Encyclopedia at the library.

CM

Currently, there are 51 members in favor of the forum and 15 against. But you make it sound as though only two are interested. This is the exaggerated nonsense I made reference to in an earlier post. Lets talk about the rules in a library to explain the usefulness of a new forum. :groner:

[bruce drake]

But specific sub-forums for casting equipment is allowed? Again, with a show of hands here on the forum from all the members, how many of them own Star Machine Tool reloader and casting equipment? I'm sure that it must be in the majority for a company that folded in the 90's to have their equipment still recognized on a daily basis on this forum.


Apply this simple observation. In all the time this site has existed, they've never seen fit to introduce model specific forums for firearms.

Why is that so? Is it sheer chance it turned out that way, or was it a conscious choice? What reasons might they have for making such a decision? How likely are they to stick with that?

That should help in understanding if the thought process is followed through.

[dragon813gt]

It's amazing how dense some people are. They fail to see the forrest through the trees. Comparing the AR platform to a specific brand of firearms is a poor analogy and is one of the worse arguments presented in any of the threads.

I made this suggestion in another thread. At least AR15, and other rifles like them, to the description of whatever forum is deemed the proper place. It is not apparent where they should go. They could be spread out over Military, Factory, Special Projects and Wheelguns/Pistols/Hand Cannons. If it was apparent which forum to post in it would solve a lot of issues. And of course there would be no need for a new forum so members won't get their panties in a bunch.

[dragon813gt]

There are a lot of people that own Stars so that's not a good argument. I own one and know a lot of others do. This number is small when compared to the number that own AR15 type rifles. But there is a good percentage that own Stars.

[bruce drake]

But Stars receive their own sub-forum in Casting equipment...Shouldn't there be in return of fairness be a subforum for LEE or Ideal...

[btroj]

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/cmps_index.php?page=TOS


Go the bottom of this page and PM the admins and ask them rather than assume they we this thread. Pretty simple concept really, communicate effectively with those in charge. I can assured they don't spend hours per day reading every post.

[35remington]

Apply post #90 to your thought processes. Past actions are a good predictor of future events.

[montana_charlie]

Currently, there are 51 members in favor of the forum and 15 against. But you make it sound as though only two are interested.
I mentioned mimmax because he started this thread, and I mentioned you because you are the 'vocal' one.

As for that vote count, most of those who would vote no aren't interested enough in this question to even vote.
I think the 51 number is about everyone who (either) would want the subforum, or who wouldn't object if one is established.

If the 'no' voters were interested enough to submit one, you would probably be overwhelmed by the resistance.

I don't know about others, but I don't even know where that poll is located, and I don't care enough to find out.

CM

[dragon813gt]

If the 'no' voters were interested enough to submit one, you would probably be overwhelmed by the resistance.

I don't know about others, but I don't even know where that poll is located, and I don't care enough to find out.

CM

One shouldn't assume based on their own opinion. I assume that most people do want it and are just to lazy to vote yes. See how that stupid game of assumption works. And both of us are correct because we can't prove the other wrong.

If you don't care to find out then why bother posting to begin w/? I guess it's because you do care. Also seems that you can't find it because it's not in the forum you'd expect it to be. Or you are just lazy and don't want to look for it. But that custom google search is so wicked fast it should take no time to find it.

[MaryB]

Okay instead of AR specific make it AR, AK, and other semi auto rifles. Getting them to cycle is a main goal and I know that eventually I will pick up dies to reload 7.62x39. That would get it out of the military, factory, bolt action clutter and be a focused forum serving modern rifles.

[freebullet]

I can understand both sides of this. I really like the ar, but there are seemingly a ton of subforums.

Some of them have more than a half page of stickies already, and you can't close them up in a folder or do anything to get them out of the way. I have witnessed folks being chastised for posting ar stuff in certain forums here.

Maybe some cleaning up of no longer relevant stickies and reorganization/retitle of forums/subforms would be a better solution vs. Simply adding another. Glad it ain't up to me lol.

[FLHTC]

I mentioned mimmax because he started this thread, and I mentioned you because you are the 'vocal' one.

As for that vote count, most of those who would vote no aren't interested enough in this question to even vote.
I think the 51 number is about everyone who (either) would want the subforum, or who wouldn't object if one is established.

If the 'no' voters were interested enough to submit one, you would probably be overwhelmed by the resistance.

I don't know about others, but I don't even know where that poll is located, and I don't care enough to find out.

CM

And i guess you are just lying down and being quiet about all this huh?
You shoot yourself in the foot with every reply you make. It's obvious that you don't care about anything other than what you want.
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?257298-Developing-an-AR-MSR-subforum-within-the-Factory-Rifle-forum

[FLHTC]

Okay instead of AR specific make it AR, AK, and other semi auto rifles. Getting them to cycle is a main goal and I know that eventually I will pick up dies to reload 7.62x39. That would get it out of the military, factory, bolt action clutter and be a focused forum serving modern rifles.
Now the issue is being ignored with the hopes that we just go away. I've spoken to dozens of former members and they all say the same thing. It's a one way street here

[btroj]

Yep, MC and 35 Remington have driven away hoards of members from these very pages.

Talk about a bunch of clap trap

[montana_charlie]

And i guess you are just lying down and being quiet about all this huh?
You shoot yourself in the foot with every reply you make. It's obvious that you don't care about anything other than what you want.
Sorry to keep you waiting. I had to attend to the real world for a couple of days.

You object to being called 'the vocal one' when you have 11 posts in this thread to my 3.
And, if you go back and read all of mine, I have never said that I am for ... or against ... the creation of that forum.
I simply pointed out that the stated reason for 'needing' such a section - 'an inability to find information' - is a lame excuse.

So, as is clearly evident, what I might want (or not want) doesn't even enter into my contention that your logic is flawed.

Thanks for posting a link to the poll in question, but I still have no input to share on that question, nor any intention of pursuing this discussion any longer.

CM

[FLHTC]

Sorry to keep you waiting. I had to attend to the real world for a couple of days.

You object to being called 'the vocal one' when you have 11 posts in this thread to my 3.
And, if you go back and read all of mine, I have never said that I am for ... or against ... the creation of that forum.
I simply pointed out that the stated reason for 'needing' such a section - 'an inability to find information' - is a lame excuse.

So, as is clearly evident, what I might want (or not want) doesn't even enter into my contention that your logic is flawed.

Thanks for posting a link to the poll in question, but I still have no input to share on that question, nor any intention of pursuing this discussion any longer.

CM
Every second of my life is the real world and I'm surprised that you need to separate this site from yours. I personally enjoy the comradery here with certain individuals and it's saddening to read that this isn't the real world to you. Do you come here to pretend and masquerade? For having 15,000 posts, you certainly must be deeply involved in the make believe. I think there is a clinical definition for that but at the time, it escapes me.