Martini Cadet's are lever guns!

[trooperdan]

I am working on a Big Deal to import a few Martini Cadet's from Australia. I never have done anything like this before and I really don't have a question; I'm just excited about possibly getting some original unconverted Cadet's and I'm bragging! I doubt the deal will be concluded before next year but if I get them you guys will be among the first to know!

After seeing what importers charge I'm seriously looking into getting an importers license.. but that is another story altogether!

[lar45]

A good friend of mine gave me a Martini converted to 30-30. It was his Dad's rifle, that his dad had coverted useing a machine gun barrel. His dad then carved a curly maple stock for it. It shoots real good with factory ammo. I'm going to see about working up a cast load and useing it for Deer season. I'm thinking about the Fat-30 and air cooled WW or a PB nose with WW base. what better way to say thanks?
http://www.lsstuff.com/pics/misc/martini-06.jpg

[Ed Barrett]

Keep me on your list. I had a cadet in .357 mag that that I still regret trading.

[NVcurmudgeon]

Trooper Dan, DIBS!

[GregP42]

I am working on a Big Deal to import a few Martini Cadet's from Australia. I never have done anything like this before and I really don't have a question; I'm just excited about possibly getting some original unconverted Cadet's and I'm bragging! I doubt the deal will be concluded before next year but if I get them you guys will be among the first to know!

After seeing what importers charge I'm seriously looking into getting an importers license.. but that is another story altogether!


Hey Dan,

Way cool, I have always liked them, lets us know when the ship comes in :)

Greg

[Urny]

I hope you succeed in this one. I am sure we would like one at least, herself has a custom Cadet by Dennis Erhardt (?) from up Waksupi's way. It's a .222 with C P Donnelly barrel, and Unertl 10X scope. We have a spare Bob Snapp extractor in the miscellaneous stuff drawer for the next custom Cadet, but if these are indeed in issue condition it would have to stay that way in our hands.

[waksupi]

Urny, that is probably Dennis Olsen

[Bad Ass Wallace]

Without prying, what sort of money would you expect to pay for them in USA. Here in the land of Cadets (I have 16 :mrgreen: ) the going rate is $AU150-180 with some very nice sporters $AU250-300. Aussies generally don't get enthused over them.

I have sporters in 17AH, 17/222Rimmed, 222Rimmed, 218 Mashburn Bee Hornet and 22WRM. I also have 577/450 rifle & carbine, 303 Enfields, Sporters, 40/65 Winchester, BSA 12/15 smallbore rifles and a Greener 12ga shotty and about 4 spare actions.

[Four Fingers of Death]

Mind you, I can't get too excited about them nowadays. I saw one at Horsley park gunshop last week in 222Rimmed for $120. I have a friend who has a mint 450/577 Carbine with a huge saw toothed cutlass bayonet. It is absolutely mint and would be worth a fortune. Next time I'm down his was I'll snap a few photos of it with the digital camera.

I always thought their official classification was a 'hinged block' as opposed to a falling block.

I have a friend who has a 17 Hornet wich I wouldn't mind. Another mate uses old target Bbls and 38, 357 mag and Maximum cases to make up 30Cal wildcats. he makes the dies himself and shoots lead boolits. They are interesting.

I would have thought that the 30/30 case was a bit big, but I have heard of a few in the states. A 7mm Waters was one I saw on a website once. I have never seen these large case conversions in Australia. Maybe they are talking about the big action. There are a few 45/70 conversions on big actions at my Western Action club and I have seen a few 303s in use. These used to be the issue weapon for use in the gaol (English for jail) system. I could put up with a 303 for lead boolit shooting.

Mick.

PS You can get extractors for rimless cases such as the 222, 223, etc in Australia.

[Bad Ass Wallace]

4FM
Graeme Spraggon in Sydney has rimless extractors about $220 last I checked.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v152/BAWallace/Martini222r1.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v152/BAWallace/My_577_450.jpg

[lar45]

Mine is definately thinner than the 577-450 action. It has a Kangaroo on it if that means anything. I have to push the lever down to get the rim to pop out and go in.

[Jumptrap]

G'day Mates,

I have a friend in Orange who will remain anonymous for the time being....but he helped a cadet action swim over. In fact, two of them have managed to do so, thus far. Now, one was reunited with all the other original parts from a Cadet that was butchered stateside...so while not perfect, i now have one in original condition and it is a favorite..by the way, it will swallow 32-20 rims so making 310 brass is very easy. Me mate also sent over a set of .310 dies..paid thru the **** from Ray Jansa and if that is where these other cadets are coming from...nobody should expect any baragins. The other cadet action became a 7-30 Waters and Mick, you're right..it is too long for practical purposes. Yeah, it works, but if I had it to over..I'd choose something else like a 256 magnum. Everybody seems to have a hard-on for 357's of some description and I could never figure that out. Doesn't do a damned thing for me.

The big weakness in the Cadet is the lack of extraction power. I cannot load the 7-30 anywhere close to what the action and case can stand because the bugger refuses to shuck the empty. I never have finished this rifle.....a stock came from that gunsmith in Bathhurst....forget his name..quite well known..anyway, it's fitted and looking good, need a forearm to match.

Now, should any of you intrepid souls from down under should be willing to aid me in acquiring cadet parts.....they swim quite well actually....PM me.

[GregP42]

That is something I have been thinking about putting in the list to build, but I have to find just the action, unless the whole gun is cheap! If ya hear of any swimming around the Ohio area let me know ok?

Greg

[Jumptrap]

After reading this Cadet thread, I got a woody to go load some ammo. I use a CBE 130 grain mould to cast a perfect outside lubed bullet (light coat of liquid alox). This gets seated over 10 grains of 2400 in trimmed 32-20 cases and loaded in Simplex dies. Making hits at 200 yards is no problem. I shoot out the back window of my shop towards a hillside. All sorts of natural targets over there...stumps, limbs, cow pies and trust me brothers, you don't want this little rifle leveled on your backside at that range. It is so much fun too...about like shooting an overgrown 22 rf. You can shoot it all day for cheap...it's just a fun rifle and I hope that if any of you can get an original rifle, you'll keep it that way and enjoy it. I strongly urge you to buy a CBE mould and the proper Simplex dies. Neither is cheap but they load perfect ammo. I tried jury rigging 32-20 dies and a 31950 mould with dismal results. Break open the piggy bank and spring for the right dies and mould and you'll be happier than a pig in ripe slop.

[Urny]

Ric, I met Mr Olsen over in Plains a few years ago. Seemed a nice fellow. The guy I am talking about is Dennis Erhardt of Helena, at least according to my copy of American Custom Gunmakers Guild Directory of Custom Gunmaking Services, 2004. He did a real nice job on this rifle of Linda's. We had sold Linda's origonal O'brien .17-222 Magnum to pay for a new engine for the Wagoneer, and bought this from Ike Ellis at a Salt Lake City gun show to assuage her grief. This little rifle was built for a small woman who died the week it was delivered, and Ike sold it for her estate for exactly one third of what she had paid. Ike later built a custom Mauser for me, but that is another, and sad, story.

We met Bob Snapp at the 2004 ACGG show in Reno in January of 2004, and bought the spare rimless extractor from him for sixty dollars, if I remember it right. He specializes in Cadets, and had his 7-30 Waters deer rifle at the show. He said he uses warm loads and Nosler Ballistic Tip bullets. Also showed us a nifty wrist band that carries two spare cartridges longways to the wrist; it looked comfortable and appeared to give quick access to the follow up shots. He said his wife made it.

We did not make the 2005 show, but if I can scare up an action in excellent to like new condition, I may see if he will take a commission for a new one for Linda at the 2006 show. He's pretty close to retirement, I believe, and said in 2004 that he might not make any more of the rimless extractors. The only way to find out would be to contact him, I suppose.

[Piglead]

Mine is definately thinner than the 577-450 action. It has a Kangaroo on it if that means anything. I have to push the lever down to get the rim to pop out and go in.

From memory The kangaroo stamp inicated it was For export & then use in Australia Most of the Martinis I've owned & seen over the years have this marking !

I can attest to the CBE 120 gn mould it throws a beautifull little pill! My lad gets a great deal of fun out of his little .310! [smilie=w: & has taken several Feral goats with it at ranges out to 100yrds


Dave

[Bad Ass Wallace]

I am suprised at the amount of interest in these little guns by US of A shooters.
The very high cost of gunsmithing these actions into a sporter has slowed this to a stand still. There is a however a general resergance of interest in actually shooting these little gems.

[Jumptrap]

I am suprised at the amount of interest in these little guns by US of A shooters.
The very high cost of gunsmithing these actions into a sporter has slowed this to a stand still. There is a however a general resergance of interest in actually shooting these little gems.

Bad Ass,

Fun is fun....whether on top or on the bottom (of the world)..HAR! It's a damnable shame that these little guns have been butchered on a wholesale basis for the last 50 years. Not a thing wrong with the 310 cartridge as it is. A mate of mine who lives at Orange, NSW.....has had several butcherized Cadets..his favorite was in two-two-two rimmed (by the way, is the word, two-twenty-two even in your vocabulary down under? hehe!). The rage in the States was to screw on a .357 magnum pipe and pretend they had a big bore rifle. Disgusting! I have a Navy Arms 'Baby Rolling Block' in .357....about the same category as a Cadet.......it doesn't do a damned thing for me. I'll give it to one of the kids someday and see if they can figure it out. I think the .310 is damned near perfect and if I wanted a modern case, I'd chose the 32 H&R magnum.....same damned thing in a different wrapper.

[Piglead]

I am suprised at the amount of interest in these little guns by US of A shooters.
The very high cost of gunsmithing these actions into a sporter has slowed this to a stand still. There is a however a general resergance of interest in actually shooting these little gems.

Long gone are the days when you could'nt give a Cadet away ! I love em & normaly have one or two stashed for convertion jobs these days! Not at the moment though ;) My first "Big Game rifle" was a Cadet (cost about $15.00 with a box of River Brand ammo thrown in ) My Old man went through the Roof that I'd wasted my money!


Dave

[trooperdan]

Without prying, what sort of money would you expect to pay for them in USA. Here in the land of Cadets (I have 16 :mrgreen: ) the going rate is $AU150-180 with some very nice sporters $AU250-300. Aussies generally don't get enthused over them.

I have sporters in 17AH, 17/222Rimmed, 222Rimmed, 218 Mashburn Bee Hornet and 22WRM. I also have 577/450 rifle & carbine, 303 Enfields, Sporters, 40/65 Winchester, BSA 12/15 smallbore rifles and a Greener 12ga shotty and about 4 spare actions.


Wallace, looks like I'm buying them in the wrong places! I should have you buying for me! :)

Checking the last auction at Australia Antique Arms Auctions web site, they had 10 Cadets that sold from 325 to 450 AUD. And checking the completed auctions in the states, I see just an action going for $300 US, an excellent .310 for $500, a .32-20 for $428 and an excellent Francotti .310 that did not sell at $1175!

They have to be in the original caliber in order to be imported here and I think originals are more in demand now, due to so many being converted in days gone by.

[trooperdan]

I use a CBE 130 grain mould to cast a perfect outside lubed bullet (light coat of liquid alox). This gets seated over 10 grains of 2400 in trimmed 32-20 cases and loaded in Simplex dies.

Hey Jumptrap, are CBE and Simplex Australian manufacture? How expensive are then? Or maybe I can con, erh CAJOLE you out of a few boolits, if and when I get my stash "home" to the USA! What velocity do you think you are getting with that load?

[Jumptrap]

Hey Jumptrap, are CBE and Simplex Australian manufacture? How expensive are then? Or maybe I can con, erh CAJOLE you out of a few boolits, if and when I get my stash "home" to the USA! What velocity do you think you are getting with that load?

Dan,

yeah they are both Aussie makes. My mate down under saved my ass and sent the dies to me, they were bought from Ray Jansa...most expensive seller down there I think. But, the RCBS dies are special order and expensive too. The Simplex dies look like RCBS made them...excellent stuff. The CBE mould was ordered by me, took awhile to get here and I forget what i paid..but it cost plenty...like $80 or so. It is brass and casts pefectly. They offer a couple 120 grainers and the 130..which I opted for. I shoot them unsized and have a small pile cast...send me an address and I'll get some in the mail. It takes a very thin coat of liquid alox and they shoot great. I don't remember what they chrono....maybe 1400-1500. Your mileage may vary, but beyond 10 grains of 2400 and cases begin to stick..which is a PITA. 10 grains just works fine anyway, easy to load and accurate.

[Piglead]

Dan. The CBE web site is to be found at www.castbulletengineering.bigpondhosting.com & his E-mail adress is JIM.CBE@Bigpond.com.au
you can also obtain 310 brass through Bertam brass & I use ADI 2205 (H4227) 9gns (max) with the 120gn cast for round 1200fps


Dave

[Bullshop]

Not wanting to hyjack this thread but methinks this croud can help out on this, so just a simple answer and I will go away. I have a customer asking for heeled boolits for a 310 cadet. Is the RCBS mold correct? It says 310 cadet but dosn't mention being heeled. Anyone know of other options?
Gday mates!
BIC/BS

[Blackwater]

I don't have a Cadet, but that RCBS mould was written up by Ross Seyfried in an article in Handloader magazine a little while back, and he got very good results from it.

And for brass, Buffalo Arms has it for, IIRC, $30 per hundred. It's reformed .32/20 cases.

If I can break in here with another question about the Martini Cadets as well, a friend has an old Cadet that's been reamed out for full length .32/20 brass. Can anyone tell me the best way to load him some ammo for it? He's 86, has shingles (getting over them now), and a really great guy, and wants to shoot it. I'd really like to load him up some ammo for it. It would make his day. He can't shoot anything with much recoil any more due to health problems, and any info y'all could supply would really be appreciated. I've never loaded for the .310 before, and plan to order some of those ready cast bullets from Buffalo Arms. 100 bullets will keep him happy for a good while, since he doesn't get out much and tires quickly, but I'd at least like to give him that.

Thanks for any help in this, and please accept my apology for breaking in a bit.

[Piglead]

I don't have a Cadet, but that RCBS mould was written up by Ross Seyfried in an article in Handloader magazine a little while back, and he got very good results from it.

And for brass, Buffalo Arms has it for, IIRC, $30 per hundred. It's reformed .32/20 cases.

If I can break in here with another question about the Martini Cadets as well, a friend has an old Cadet that's been reamed out for full length .32/20 brass. Can anyone tell me the best way to load him some ammo for it? He's 86, has shingles (getting over them now), and a really great guy, and wants to shoot it. I'd really like to load him up some ammo for it. It would make his day. He can't shoot anything with much recoil any more due to health problems, and any info y'all could supply would really be appreciated. I've never loaded for the .310 before, and plan to order some of those ready cast bullets from Buffalo Arms. 100 bullets will keep him happy for a good while, since he doesn't get out much and tires quickly, but I'd at least like to give him that.

Thanks for any help in this, and please accept my apology for breaking in a bit.


The 310s that were rechambered to 32-20 just had the chambers reamed so the bore tends to be 311-314 (I once saw one that came in at 316)! 32-20 loads with a slightly over size bullet work just fine out of these rifles !

[Piglead]

Not wanting to hyjack this thread but methinks this croud can help out on this, so just a simple answer and I will go away. I have a customer asking for heeled boolits for a 310 cadet. Is the RCBS mold correct? It says 310 cadet but dosn't mention being heeled. Anyone know of other options?

The only heeled bullet that I can think of for the .310 is the type made by CBE !
I can thourghly recomend this mould !

Dave

[Bad Ass Wallace]

If I can break in here with another question about the Martini Cadets as well, a friend has an old Cadet that's been reamed out for full length .32/20 brass. Can anyone tell me the best way to load him some ammo for it?

I have one of these and load for it. Let's say it's a 310 Cadet Magnum. The bore one the rifle is still 0.316" but the cahmber is lengthened to take 32/20.
Using 310 dies but a 32/20 shellholder you simply expand new 32/20 brass to accept a 0.317 CBE bullet and fireform. The resultant case is straight sided and about 1/10th inch longer that a standard Cadet. A friend who owns a gunshop has an original reamer that was used by the old smiths and it is definately straight sided and not bottle necked like a 32/20.

You can add about 150fps to thet obtained from the 310 Cadet.

[Bullshop]

Not wanting to hyjack this thread but methinks this croud can help out on this, so just a simple answer and I will go away. I have a customer asking for heeled boolits for a 310 cadet. Is the RCBS mold correct? It says 310 cadet but dosn't mention being heeled. Anyone know of other options?

The only heeled bullet that I can think of for the .310 is the type made by CBE !
I can thourghly recomend this mould !

Dave
Piglead
I have never heard of CBE, would you please enlighten me? I would like to check them out. A link maby?
BIC/BS

[C1PNR]

Bullshop, check your PM.

They occasionally have a .310 mould on Ebay, too.

[Char-Gar]

If you ever get some good Cadet's at a reasonable price, put me down for one. Charles

[lar45]

If you ever get some good Cadet's at a reasonable price, put me down for one. Charles

Me also, ifn they are reasonable enough, I could be in for several.
I think that the 357 would be a rather nice cartrige in one.

[Piglead]

Piglead
I have never heard of CBE, would you please enlighten me? I would like to check them out. A link maby?
BIC/BS

Bullshop Cast Bullet Engineering can be found at www.castbulletenginerring.bigpondhosting.com They're a Australian firm who make brass blocks of a very high quality & standard .

Dave

[Four Fingers of Death]

Piglead
I have never heard of CBE, would you please enlighten me? I would like to check them out. A link maby?
BIC/BS

you'd get on well with Jim, bullshop, he is a one man show, great quality and service, prices are always reasonable and he works out of home like you. I have a heap of his moulds, but haven't bought any for a while as I'm not in a position to cast at the moment. I have 8 moulds (three from Jim) which are virgins and I'm busting to get back into it.

[onceabull]

Bullshop: The CBE mould I was fortunate enought to get off e-Bay came today,and it is a thing of beauty..maybe not quite up to the standard of that Robb Applegate mould FinnXX showed us, but still darn fine..Mr Allison included hard copy of the 2 most recent pages showing new additions to his mould stable.Undate #15 shows among others, 310Cadet#2,roundnose heelbased 125 gr for 310 Martini Cadet.. Enjoy..Onceabull