Lynching party in Detroit.......

[dakotashooter2]

Does anyone else feel like shooting an automotive engineer after they finish working on a vehicle? Do these people have any common sense??????

I spent the whole morning swapping out a radiator on a pickup, a job that would probably take 20-30 minutes on a pre-80s vehicle. One shouldn't have to take 1/2 the vehicle apart to do a simple job.



Rant over.................

[USAFrox]

Worst job I ever had to do as an auto mechanic before joining the military was when I had to change the spark plugs on a late-model minivan. I had to get to the engine through the floor panel in the front passenger seat. Broke two spark plug wires trying to get them out, and had to replace the plug wires as well as the plugs. Took something like 2 hours.

I miss the old vehicles where there was enough room to climb into the engine compartment with the engine, close the hood, and take a nap. Nowadays engines have too much **** on them, and the engine compartment is smaller.

[starmac]

LOL I know a lot of folks think some engineers stand back and give each others high fives for some of the things they can come up with to baffle techs later on. lol I am one of them sometimes. lol

I used to do the maintenence on school buses that mostly ran rural routes as in dirt roads. I was doing a rear disc brake job on one and the caliper had 5 5/8 bolts holding it on. This would have been suitable for a tank. lol I couldn't get it to budge after removing the bolts and finally found 2 1/4 inch allen bolts recessed in holes coming in from the back. These bolts had exactly no purpose except for an engineers high five. lol

[Duckiller]

When car companies stop getting sued for percieved defects and the government stops telling them how to design a car then maybe vehicles will be easier to work on.

[Handloader109]

You have to realize that they design for speed of build not disassembly.

[Hickory]

It's a government mandate that cars be fuel efficient, which requires the to be light weight. And the only way to make them light weight is to make them small. And to be small, everything needs to fit together really close.

And to top it off, the government mandated in the early 70's the they were to be manufactured so that the average shade tree mechanic could not work on them. There was the interduction of the onboard computer and no carburetor adjustment.

Now that government has been mentioned in this thread it will likely end up it the pit.

[Bad Water Bill]

Not long ago you purchased a battery and it was installer FREE.

Today the battery is hidden by so much junk they now charge just to find it and then some more to dis assemble half of the front end to get to the battery.

[RED333]

Starter on an Aurora, Alt on a 4 cylinder Ford car, Spark plugs on a Ford Triton, any spark plug on a V engine front wheel drive.
All built to speed the build at the factory. Your best help in a step by step "how to".
The steps can be found, just have to look.
I was a Mechanic for more than a few years, good money and a bad back is what I got out of the job.

[Bad Water Bill]

Wait til you get volunteered to change a Cadillac CTS battery......flipping thing is under a panel in the back floor, you have to pull the rear seat to access the panel & battery! I promise you'll never do that for free after the 1st one.

Must be a new kid.

1928 Fords had the battery under the drivers seat.

Beamers have had them there as well and it was a real pain getting the back seat to lock back in place.

One more I remember you have to remove the washer solvent tank to get to the inside of the plastic fender well where the battery is located.

They should require ALL engineers to be a certified mechanic FIRST before they can pick up a pencil and start designing a new car.

[geargnasher]

Wait 'til you put a starter and a water pump on a Northstar.

Or replace the head gaskets on a 6.0L F-250 (gotta pull off the cab).

A radiator in ANYTHING is a cakewalk.

Rant over.

Gear

[Taylor]

5 hours to do one spark plug---'88 F250-351W

[alrighty]

It isn't anything new but it is getting worst.A simple heater core replacement in a 1972 Ford Ranchero was pretty bad, I had to remove the entire dash.I once had to remove the passenger side mounted tire and inner fender on 1978 Pontiac Trans Am to change the passenger side rear spark plug.
Now I google long before I break out any wrenches, sometimes I decide to call my mechanic.Ignorance isn't limited to only the engineer's that design the cars. I have often wanted to hunt down the ones that design the dies I have to repair.Some need to be beaten with a wooden club like a Eskimo after a baby seal.

[theperfessor]

Everything goes together and comes apart real easy in a 3D CAD program...

[shoot-n-lead]

now i google long before i break out any wrenches, sometimes i decide to call my mechanic.ignorance isn't limited to only the enginee r

X 2 ... That is what I do...

[6bg6ga]

I can remember my 68 and 69 GTO's. I used to pull the engines out in my driveway and have them sitting on the engine stand in 45 min max. My 93 Z-28 Camaro the engine is supposed to go out the bottom but after removing the radiator and everything on the front of the engine and removing the intake, heads, exhaust it would come out the top. About 6 hours later. To make matters worse add a Procharger supercharger a 4 row intercooler and all the piping and you have a mess.

[6bg6ga]

5 hours to do one spark plug---'88 F250-351W

1967 Ford Fairlane 500 with 390GT engine Two center plugs each bank about 3 hrs. Situation cured by drilling two holes thru the shock tower each side.

[merlin101]

Now I google long before I break out any wrenches, .
some of us know enough that we don't have use google ...till we put it together :)

Want a tight fit?? Try changing anything on a Sunbeam Tiger, think the size of a MG but with a V-8 in it!

[leeggen]

Ford Aerostar ac compressor, hose lines bolt to back, frame among other things in the way. I beleive we used a 3 or 4 foot extension to get the bolt out. Early 90's
CD

[silverado]

It isn't anything new but it is getting worst.A simple heater core replacement in a 1972 Ford Ranchero was pretty bad, I had to remove the entire dash.I once had to remove the passenger side mounted tire and inner fender on 1978 Pontiac Trans Am to change the passenger side rear spark plug.
Now I google long before I break out any wrenches, sometimes I decide to call my mechanic.Ignorance isn't limited to only the engineer's that design the cars. I have often wanted to hunt down the ones that design the dies I have to repair.Some need to be beaten with a wooden club like a Eskimo after a baby seal.
My first car was a 1978 mustang 2 that didn't run. The only thing I never fixed was the heater, and you know why!! :-)

[Multigunner]

When my nephew's shattered forearm healed twisted and bent he had further surgery with bone grafts and metal rods attached to spikes threaded into the bones to hold them in place while it healed.
I told him that if the surgery didn't work he could make the best of it and make a fortune installing car stero systems in modern cars.

Some of these abominations seem to have been designed for mechanics with tentacles.

The Japanese safety inspections are so rigid that most cars are junked after five years on the road even if they have few miles in the odometer. It just costs too much to bring them back to standards.
Some Asian companies buy the junked Japanese cars, strip them for parts and use the parts to build supposedly new cars for sale in their countries.
Thats how it was in the nineties at least.

[Houndog]

It ain't only the newer stuff that was hard to work on! Try a tuneup on a 69 Vette with a 454 or the same job on a Cadilac Eldorado! The first place I worked as a mechanic had me specializing in Cadilacs and Corvettes. It didn't take me long to switch over to class 8 trucks! More money and a WHOLE lot easier to work on!

[alrighty]

1967 Ford Fairlane 500 with 390GT engine Two center plugs each bank about 3 hrs. Situation cured by drilling two holes thru the shock tower each side.
I still have one of those engineering marvels (390 GT engine) in a 63 Thunderbird the spark plug change isn't bad.I am sure there are more but I don't know of any other factory head that had two different bolt patterns.The factory GT heads were used in different cars and had to have different exhaust manifolds to fit specific models.

[buckwheatpaul]

My father was an engineer for a large oil company and he always said that the person/persons (engineers) that design an engine should be required to service that engine when it was installed within the engine compartment......I use to love to work on cars....now I would rather sandpaper an alligators behind then work on a vehicle!

[Minerat]

some of us know enough that we don't have use google ...till we put it together :)

Want a tight fit?? Try changing anything on a Sunbeam Tiger, think the size of a MG but with a V-8 in it!

As I remember it was a 289 Ford engine, right rear spark plug came out a hole drilled in the passenger side floor boards.
But boy would it go.

[6bg6ga]

I still have one of those engineering marvels (390 GT engine) in a 63 Thunderbird the spark plug change isn't bad.I am sure there are more but I don't know of any other factory head that had two different bolt patterns.The factory GT heads were used in different cars and had to have different exhaust manifolds to fit specific models.

The 63 Thunderbird had a lot more room under the hood than the 67 Fairlane did.

[walkswithsticks]

Used to love my Triumph Spitfires. The front clip hinges on the front of the frame rails. You raise the front clip, sit on the tire, and everything is within arms reach.

The only problem was keeping a towel on the tire to keep your backside clean.

[Multigunner]

My older brother had a 58 Corvette with all the bells and whistles. To reach one of the sparkplugs he had to cut a hole somewhere, I think it was from a wheel well. Not sure if that was a common problem, his engine had double four barrels and headers.

[alrighty]

The 63 Thunderbird had a lot more room under the hood than the 67 Fairlane did.
Yes it does , it has the shock towers same as the the 67 Fairlane , Mustang , Cougar, and Comet.However unlike those models the 1961-1966 Thunderbird was designed for only the Ford FE engine family with the 390 being the smallest.When the Muscle car craze came , engineers had to find a way to shoehorn the biggest engines into the smallest cars.Perfect example was the R code cars that had a 425 H.P. 427 stuffed in.

[Hardcast416taylor]

I remember the stories my Dad used to tell about tearing completely down Model "A" trucks and rebuilding them back up including the engine and under frame work. He said at the end of that AFTERNOON job he always seemed to have a handfull of small parts plus bolts and nuts left over. But those trucks started right up and ran fine till the next tear down or repairs. Try leaving off just about anything on modern day vehicles?Robert

[MaryB]

No way can I work on the 5.4l triton in my 2001 F150, half the engine is under the cowl. Just reaching the oil fill and dip stick are hard without a step stool.

Friend had a 69 Mustang Mach 1 with a 428CJ in it. Plug changes meant pulling a motor mount bolt and jacking the engine a bit to tilt it up on that side. And that was limited by the headers so we never got much room. I have long skinny fingers and got elected to put the plugs back in because nobody else could reach in the space. But that car was a beast on the track, he did illegal 1/4 mile races(county sheriff knew where, he often blocked the road for us. Nobody lived on it and nobody used it much). When he hit the nitrous it would try to pull the front end off the ground. And at the starting line it would do a wheel stand. Yes I grew up a gear head, dad was on a stock car pit crew!

[JWT]

You have to realize that they design for speed of build not disassembly.

I build the factories and tools that make the cars. All of the complexity (either government mandated or just luxury junk) add an amazing amount of complexity, people, cost, and time to the build process. When the government mandates side impact, rollover, and high mileage you get some crazy packaging.

[JWT]

Manufacturing engineers are not too fond of the product engineers.

[RogerDat]

Ford Escort seat, steering column, and entire dashboard out to replace a $30 shift cable. Pontiac 6000 had two spark plugs that were a beast to get out with swivels and extensions, but the real trick was getting back in without cross threading. Finally found the trick was to use a piece of rubber fuel hose slipped over the plug as a flexible extension to thread them in. It also required the entire front quarter and wheel well be removed to get the AC compressor out.

Trans AM with AC required the engine mounts be undone and engine jacked up to replace a spark plug, and that was back before the long life plugs. Olds Omega with small V8 had the exhaust pipe wrapped around the starter I spent a lovely day in a parking space on my back in a puddle of snow melt over ice getting that pig out. Other than that the 260 V8 in that thing was amazing. Olds 350 with the aluminum timing gear and direct oil feed, oil feed would plug up and to get the timing cover off you had to grind down a locating pin, or pull the engine.

I'm with the folks that think it's all about ease and efficiency of assembly, repairs and maintenance are not big considerations in the design of cars. But I do miss the days when you did not need a computer science degree and plumbers union card to work on a car. However it is rare today to have a car not last 150,000 miles with many topping 200,000 so some stuff has clearly improved. That did come with a significant increase in the upfront cost.

[MaryB]

Forgot about the Chevy Citation I got from my little brother. It had stripped the timing gears and it wasn't an interference engine so I got the car for $50. Never again will I change that timing gear! Ended up having to take the right side fender and inner fender off then it still took a bunch of cutting with a grinder to get the old gear off because it had seized in place. Puller just crumbled the cheesy plastic the original was made from I replaced it with a metal gear set then put another 100k miles on that car. I drove a lot of cars like that, junkers I got cheap and friends helped me get back up and running!

[starmac]

Yes it does , it has the shock towers same as the the 67 Fairlane , Mustang , Cougar, and Comet.However unlike those models the 1961-1966 Thunderbird was designed for only the Ford FE engine family with the 390 being the smallest.When the Muscle car craze came , engineers had to find a way to shoehorn the biggest engines into the smallest cars.Perfect example was the R code cars that had a 425 H.P. 427 stuffed in.

All FE engines were the same physical size, from the 352 to the 428, ford or mercury.

[azrednek]

1967 Ford Fairlane 500 with 390GT engine Two center plugs each bank about 3 hrs. Situation cured by drilling two holes thru the shock tower each side.

Know your pain. I had a 66 Fairlane GTA Convertible with a 390. I learned a trick from a mechanic at a Ford dealership.. Break the plug loose with a swivel head ratchet with a U-joint on a very long extension. With a tight fitting vacuum or fuel line hose attached to the nipple. Spin it out until you can get it with your fingers. The mechanic had rigged up his own tool using spedo cable attached to a shortened socket to back spark plugs out after he broke them loose. Using some of the anti-seize grease on the threads will make it easier to break loose but makes them a bit more difficult to spin out. I used as little torque as possible seating the plug. With new copper gaskets never had one of the trouble makers come loose.


I had to take my 66 Fairlane into Mexico to get the heater core changed. Numerous garages refused the job and the Ford dealer's price was incredibly ridiculous. The Mexican radiator shop had my car two days. The shop's owner claimed they had to drop and lower the auto transmission to get the floor shifter and linkage out of the way.

My X-wife had a 67 Fairlane for a short time. It only had a 289. No where near as much guts but compared to the 66. A real pleasure to work on.

Have you had the dis-pleasure of changing the starter or replacing a freeze plug yet??

[azrednek]

All FE engines were the same physical size, from the 352 to the 428, ford or mercury.

I believe it started with a 332 in the 58 Fords.

[lefty o]

ill only do simple tings on newer cars.... lol. as for the older cars only one i truly hated working on was 390's in first gen mustangs, especially once you add headers. spark plugs can get a tad challenging.

[TXGunNut]

I've completely rebuilt a few old cars & trucks, even worked on the pit crew for a NASCAR limited modified car for four years and worked as a front end mechanic for a few years. I've made my living selling auto parts for over 35 years.....but today if my car or pickup need repairs they go to a qualified shop. I don't need the aggravation and expense of trying to do it myself. I'm a worldclass tightwad but have learned paying someone else to do it is the cheap & easy way out for today's vehicles. If one of these mechanics wants me to show him how to install a set of distributor points or align an old vehicle with a few bubbles and a measuring tape I'll oblige him. ;-)

[daniel lawecki]

I have a 3L motor in a Ford Fusion now way in *** to get to the back plugs.

[10x]

My son had a dodge shadow - the $70 heater core took 20 minutes to install after the engine was pulled. The bill for labour was over $1000.
And try working on a 1992 Nissan Skyline, changing the twin turbos took almost 12 hours. It would have taken less than an hour with the engine out of the car.

[HangFireW8]

When car companies stop getting sued for percieved defects and the government stops telling them how to design a car then maybe vehicles will be easier to work on.

No, they won't. They made hard to work on **** before CAFE, safety and emissions standards, but it is getting worse. "Engineering" was and still means getting a product built and out the door, maintenance is something that consumers pay dealers to do, the more customers pay the better for the dealers.

[HangFireW8]

The Japanese safety inspections are so rigid that most cars are junked after five years on the road even if they have few miles in the odometer. It just costs too much to bring them back to standards.

It's not the safety inspections, it's the taxes, they go up at 3 and 5 years, after 5 years owning an "old" car is cost-prohibitive. This provides an incentive to trade-in and buy new, so it's really socialized subsidization of the national car industry.



Some Asian companies buy the junked Japanese cars, strip them for parts and use the parts to build supposedly new cars for sale in their countries.
Thats how it was in the nineties at least.

Yes, the rest of Asia is still awash in used Japanese auto components, even today. Whole factories in the Philippines rely on used Japanese parts for their "new" vehicles. They come with a warranty and replacement parts are easy to find, so everyone is OK with this.

[wallenba]

Engineers have production costs and methods in mind. It's easier to lift an entire engine/subframe assembly from the bottom up into a vehicle than to install it after. This sometimes means that parts are not accessible to the mechanic. I have heard of minivans that have to have the engine dropped to change spark plugs. I had a friend with a 1969 Mustang 428 CJ. We had to cut a hole in the fender apron to get to a plug. I recall my dad's Pontiac had to have an AC compressor moved.

Could be worse LOL. How about working on an R-4360 28 cylinder radial engine. I have! This plane was acquired from an aviation maintenance school at Willow Run Michigan http://www.mcchordairmuseum.org/REV%20B%20MAM%20COLLECTION%20C-124%20BORDER.htm I helped get it airworthy back in the mid eighties.

[HangFireW8]

Working on a 289 in a Galaxie was a walk in the park. A 390 in a Fairlane or worse Mustang was a PITA. Pretty much every "shoehorned" engine is a pain to work on. Nowadays, they are all shoehorned, but the 4's are easier than the V6's.

I just finished putting brakes, hoses and lines on my Dakota. Not bad work, everything is manageable. They even put an access panel for the brake line junction block so I didn't have to pull the entire fender liner. I've never seen such thoughtfulness on a Ford.

The only problem is tire shop mechanics who slap in new pads and rotors without measuring runout on the rotors or making sure the pad tracks are dressed and free of notches. 15K later, the pads are still thick but the shuddering and shaking makes people pay for new brakes. So, I do a lot of the work myself, to make sure it gets done right.

I do have a trusted mechanic, and whaddya know he's not cheap. I use him for the hard jobs. Spark plug changes require a torque wrench now but I can still do them myself, and I can still do brakes, tire rotations, filter changes, and so on.

Back when I was busy with overtime at work I took in the Ford to a local tire shop. After turning down new tires and $4,500 of "required" work (mostly maintenance stuff, much of which was already up to date), I had them replace a ball joint and do the front brakes. I wanted that fixed before putting new tires on it. When I pulled out of the parking lot, there was an awful scraping sound and the car made a left hand turn when I hit the brakes (?). I took it back the next day and they told me I had to buy new tires before they could fix anything.

My trusted mechanic came back from vacation the next monday, he found a brake hose with a 360 degree twist and a kink in it on one side, and the splash shield bent into the rotor on the other side. I had him fix it, took the bill and digital photographs back to the tire shop and got a refund for his corrective work. I told the service writer, next time someone comes back on a bad brake job, don't get out the tire chalk.

One thing is very different than the old days. Web forums (like this one but for cars) have some awesome how-to's, with part numbers, tools needed listed at the start, color pictures, step by step photos with circles and arrows and captions that say "loosen this bolt, don't touch that bolt." You know, all those things that Chilton's and Hayne's failed to tell us for decades of ill-service to the DIY community. Anyone remember "Re-assemble in reverse order?" Gee, thanks.

You-tube also has some good stuff, but due to lack of moderation, you have to wade through an awful lot of drek to find it.

HF

[Mk42gunner]

The sad thing is that comparable vehicles don't get all that much better mileage now. When I graduated High school in 1982 I bought a 1957 F100 short bed, Y block V-8 (never did know if it was a 272 or a 292), with the smallest two barrel carb I have ever seen, three speed, manual everything. It got 14-15 MPG.

I now have a 2006 F150, 4.2 V6 auto that gets 14-16 MPG. It does ride and drive easier, with a lot more creature comforts.

The 57 had enough room under the hood to crawl in and reach anything; the 06 you can reach the dipstick, and fill the radiator's plastic tank on the fender.

Robert

[garym1a2]

Gee, my 2009 Toyota is made easy to work on, 4 spark plugs right on top. I changed them myself at 130k+ miles. Oil changes, no problems drains on bottom, filter too. Brakes so easy a third grader could do it.
Alternator, belts, battery, starter all in good locations to. Of course being a Toyota I don't get to fix much, just the ac compressor at 158K miles.

[gwpercle]

Automotive rant on!
My wife's 2000 Tahoe need a new headlight, I thought no problem...wrong! To get to the headlight you have to take apart the front end. Didn't have needed special tools , time or patience so had mechanic do it next time it was in shop. That's just ridiculous!
I drive a 1968 Chevelle, why....it does not have any computer or electronics, parts are available and cheap but most importantly is I can work on it. I can change out bulbs, tune it up with a screw driver and timing light and don't need a degree from MIT.
True story.
Pulled into a quick tune-up shop one day, Winter, cold , I don't have garage but needed a tune up, Young fellow with "technician" on shirt , pulling a wheeled electronic thing. Opens door and starts looking, says he's looking for the "port" to plug in the diagnostic machine, I tell him no port...1968 it's got points, plugs, condenser and a carburetor ..no electronic's. Wraps wires back and starts off to the back. I say " where you going" he replies" to get a real mechanic!".
Older fellow with grease up to his elbows comes out , wiping hands on shop rag, it doesn't say "tech" on his shirt, just his name. Oh man a 68 Chevelle, that's one sweet ride. The Real Mechanic tuned it up, the young guy got lessons on adjusting a carb. with a screw driver...I think the young guy was impressed how you can do it by listening to how the motor sounds as you turn the screws. He thought it was pretty cool.
Gary

[oneokie]

The sad thing is that comparable vehicles don't get all that much better mileage now. When I graduated High school in 1982 I bought a 1957 F100 short bed, Y block V-8 (never did know if it was a 272 or a 292), with the smallest two barrel carb I have ever seen, three speed, manual everything. It got 14-15 MPG.

I now have a 2006 F150, 4.2 V6 auto that gets 14-16 MPG. It does ride and drive easier, with a lot more creature comforts.

The 57 had enough room under the hood to crawl in and reach anything; the 06 you can reach the dipstick, and fill the radiator's plastic tank on the fender.

Robert
Could also have been a 312.

[Bad Water Bill]

Another way of tuning the carb was watching your fully extended radio antenna.

Less vibration means closer to the best setting.

Yes we OLD folks have some problems hearing so this still works for us.:)

[azrednek]

Automotive rant on!
My wife's 2000 Tahoe need a new headlight, I thought no problem...wrong! To get to the headlight you have to take apart the front end. Didn't have needed special tools ,
Gary

From 68-71 I worked in an auto parts store near a Motorola plant. The Motorola engineers often came in looking for "the special tool" they invented in their mind. "Oh somebody has to make a tool for this" they often argued. Being in Arizona and at the time add-on after-market A/C units were common. "Oh they have to make a tool to get to that spark plug without removing the compressor". We had a competitor across the street. We'd get on phone and warn each other "Motorola engineer on they way".

The engineers often spent a good deal of time in front of the brass fitting cabinet. Some of the things they put together reminded me of WW1 Trench Art.

[azrednek]

Could also have been a 312.

Don't recall any 312's with a 2-barrel carb but guess it is possible. The 312's usually if not always had valve covers and a label on the air cleaner saying "Thunderbird". Best I recall the 312 didn't come from the factory in pick-ups.

[popper]

Mercs & Tbirds had the 312. Big Mercs had the 490? 2bbl, no, not 390. Lots of fun being stranded on the KTP when the fuel pump valves decided to pop out. Dated a gal during HS, her dad used coat hanger wire on the brake shoes as they were dirt poor with kids. Yup, pull the front end off a 96 max to change the headlite. 56 ford - pass side rear plug was under 2' of airbox. J2 olds needed to lift the motor or cut a hole in the fender well to change the rear plugs. Made more 'special' tools for GMs than I care to remember. Don't know why you put the therm housing on a 200 6 on a vertical surface - and it does require a gasket. Lots of fun in 3' of snow, changing a stuck thermostat - of course from below. Most fun is trying to get a Solex or Vespa to run - 10 mi. from home. Or trying to find a motoplat SS ignition for a Spanish race bike.

[starmac]

490???? what year.

[ph4570]

Changing the low beam headlight bulb on my son's Mazda 6 required wheel and inner fender shell removal. Changing rear spark plugs requires intake manifold removal.

Those tasks on my MB SL500 are simple.

[azrednek]

Mercs & Tbirds had the 312. Big Mercs had the 490?bike.

I have somewhat of a recollection of the 490 or something similiar but supposedly being a different size in Lincolns but according to parts books everything was identical. Slightly larger bore than the 272-312 series and a considerably longer stroke if I remember correctly. The Merc and Lincoln engines were a prize find for junk yards. They would re-sell the engines for a premium price for pre-58 10 wheeler Ford trucks because the engine would bolt up to the multi-gear trannys.

[starmac]

Lincoln had an oddball 462, but it would not bolt to any other bellhousing as far as I know. It was later than the y block, around 68 and 9 iirc. I never knew of a y block available in a car bigger than the 312, but that doesn't mean anything. Back then bellhousing adapters were available for most any swaps. My uncle ran olds engines in his ford commercial trucks, and folks used to swap caddy engines into about everything.

[alrighty]

All FE engines were the same physical size, from the 352 to the 428, ford or mercury.

Correct ,the blocks were the same size on all FE motors.The difference was on manifolds , both intake and exhaust and the 428 had a externally balanced crankshaft.The T-Bird from 61-66 only had the FE series so they were engineered for the FE.
What I was referring to was the other models.None of the other models Comet ,Cougar ,Fairlane ,or Mustang came standard with the FE.All but the Cougar came standard with the inline six.The Cougar did come standard with a V-8 but it was the 289 or 302, depending on year ,from the Windsor series of engines.
You are also correct that the largest Y-block was the 312.

[Daniel964]

My wife's Suv needs a rear main seal and a oil pan gasket. About $50 for the parts. Labour is over $2,000. The engine needs pulled to replace the parts. I've got a new rope if you all want to get together.

[Mk42gunner]

No rant here. Am I the only one who remembers changing sparks , points, condensers, etc every year? Engines and vehicles that were ready for the junkyard or major repairs at 100k miles? Rebuilding carburetors?

With my last few vehicles topping 200k with only routine fluid changes and a few parts like wheel bearings or alternators, I'll take today's vehicles for a daily driver, thank you.
Oh man, you had to insert logic into a trip down memory lane....

Another was being surprised if, BIG IF, your tires lasted 20,000 miles. Although I do prefer separate wheel bearings that can be serviced rather than the unitized hub assembly for $150+ on most of todays vehicles.

Robert

[popper]

For some reason Dad always got the biggest motor available, back in the 'order-your-own' days. His company did a lot of refit line work for the Claycomo plant. He got some strange deals from Ford, who was known to bolt anything that would work together. It was the biggest whale looking 65? merc. Mom was always getting speeding tickets with her foot off the pedal. It would run 40 at idle on the flat. Could have been a 460, long time ago. I do remember somebody set a speed record with an old Tbird, 560? bored out Linc. motor. Had a girl (friend) in HS who's dad was a mechanic with a house FULL of service manuals for all makes. He told me Chevy had an alum. V8 OHV in '17, I didn't believe him so he went and got the books. Hope that stuff eventually made it to a museum someplace. Funniest front suspension I ever saw was an early (AU?) tube, hinged spindle bottom & coil spring inside the tube axle.
Anyway, finally changed the plugs on the 4runner @ 100K, did front brakes too. No complaints on certain vehicles.

[HangFireW8]

Reliable, easy to maintain and easy to repair are 3 different things. We shouldn't have to pick 2.

[texassako]

I never understood why more of the 24 hour racing tech does not trickle down. You can change just about anything on those in 15 minutes; so they should be able to make it so you can service your own a little easier. I had the joy of changing out another Dodge minivan EGR valve this weekend that is installed before they put the intake and accessories on the engine during assembly. It was much easier the second time knowing what contortion I had to go through and which odd bits to move or loosen to get to that last bolt in the seemingly inaccessible spot.

[s mac]

I have a 3L motor in a Ford Fusion now way in *** to get to the back plugs.
Piece of cake, remove the upper intake.

[rosewood]

Guys, it is real simple. The engineers design the car to last forever. The parts manufacturers do not design the parts to the same standard.

[Bad Water Bill]

My defroster motor smoked yesterday.

First step in removing the fan motor?

REMOVE ENGINE.

What kind of nonsense is that?

[Djones]

Wait 'til you put a starter and a water pump on a Northstar.

Or replace the head gaskets on a 6.0L F-250 (gotta pull off the cab).

A radiator in ANYTHING is a cakewalk.

Rant over.

Gear

I changed the text to RED to highlight your problem!

I am trying to hang onto my 2000 F250 with a 7.3 as long as I can!!!! It is starting to rust some but in the ten years I have owned it I have had very little problems. My wife has a 2001 Excursion with the 7.3 also. It has over 200k and still going strong. Rust so far has been our only enemy.

Good luck with the six-leaker.

I still have room to climb in under our hoods even with intercooler and turbo piping going every which way.

[s mac]

By the way, you can replace headgaskets on a 6.0 without removing the cab, it ain't easy but it can be done, I've done at least 40-50 different trucks.

[dagger dog]

Worst job I ever had to do as an auto mechanic before joining the military was when I had to change the spark plugs on a late-model minivan. I had to get to the engine through the floor panel in the front passenger seat. Broke two spark plug wires trying to get them out, and had to replace the plug wires as well as the plugs. Took something like 2 hours.

I miss the old vehicles where there was enough room to climb into the engine compartment with the engine, close the hood, and take a nap. Nowadays engines have too much **** on them, and the engine compartment is smaller.


Ford Aerostar 2.9 liter engine, right ?

Once the vehicle leaves the sales floor Detroit doesn't care what kind of money it takes to maintain the car !

There are a few design changes that are mechanic friendly, like multi rib belts that take the place of up to 3 vee belts, and the tensioners that keep the belt tight, 100,000 thousand + mile sparkplugs, ,silica free 50,000 mile antifreeze that doesn't go acidic.

But mostly the thoughts behind most modern automotive design, is to maximize profit.

[starmac]

My defroster motor smoked yesterday.

First step in removing the fan motor?

REMOVE ENGINE.

What kind of nonsense is that?

Sheesh, what model

[IllinoisCoyoteHunter]

This thread applies to Bobcat skidsteers also...

[dakotashooter2]

It always seems like the parts are "stacked".... generally with the ones least likely to need repair on top. What really bugs me is a part with 4-5 bolts holding it on....of which one bolt can't be removed unless 2-3 other parts, each with their own 4-5 bolts, are removed.

I was looking at a Clinton repair manual the other day on how to remove a part from my 95 Dakota. According to the manual it only takes 3-4 steps to remove the part...... they only neglect to tell you about the 6-8 things that are in the way.................

I'm supprised more mechanics don't commit suicide.............................

[Bad Water Bill]

Sheesh, what model

Thought I would finally break down after all these years and try a rice burner.

2002 Toyota Echo with 106,000 miles and averaging about 39 MPG.

Probably cost more to replace the blower motor than the car is worth.

[GRUMPA]

When I used to work on cars (notice I said "used to") I learned real fast a lesson. They could give a rip how much trouble it takes to repair something, and so long as it sells that's all they care about.

All they want folks to do is bring them in for repair, and of course since it takes longer they make more money from you.

THAT'S ALL THEY CARE ABOUT.....IT"S ALL ABOUT THE MONEY

[popper]

BWB - try this, yes they are not cheap.

[Minerat]

...... his engine had double four barrels...

I remember duel quads. Good thing gas was a quarter then. My brother has a foreign job of some kind with 3 duces that had to be timed. That was a chore and he seemed to have 10 thumbs and was about as mechanically inclined as an ape which means I had to do it all the time. HUUUUMMMM maybe he wasn't as dumb as I thought, only took me 40 years to make that observation. I'll get even some day.

[Mk42gunner]

I never saw an auto mechanic use one, but the motorcycle mechanics used to use a manometer to synchronize carbs on multi-cylinder bikes. I have a sneaking suspicion that one would help on multi carb setups in cars.

Robert

[Bad Water Bill]

BWB - try this, yes they are not cheap.

Try what??

[starmac]

I never saw an auto mechanic use one, but the motorcycle mechanics used to use a manometer to synchronize carbs on multi-cylinder bikes. I have a sneaking suspicion that one would help on multi carb setups in cars.

Robert

Possibly because the ones (at least some of them on autos were progressive, on motorcycles they all set the same. I ran a 3 duece setup on my goat for a short time, went back to the 4 barrel. The 3 dueces made a whopping 2 horsepower more. lol It wasn't worth the hassle.

[oneokie]

Manometers were useful for setting Weber carbs.

[facetious]

All this is why I hate to think of ever having to get rid of my "78" ford truck.

Plus I get to post a photo I just went out to take. I have been trying to learn how to do that for some time. he he he he, I think I may be getting the hang of this yet.

Just to add I got it June 3rd 1978 just before I turned 21 in July. AND I still have the sales receipt just in case I have to take it back! :bigsmyl2:

119806

[starmac]

Oh man, someone done gipped you. 78 is sposed to have a 460 sitting between them frame rails. lol If it is a two wheel drive that is.lol

[facetious]

I could afford the gas for this one. I think I have about 340,000 something miles on it now. I don't drive it much any more and it needs some work on it but I am hoping to try restoring it some day , maybe after I retire in a few more years. Sometimes I think I keep it around kind of like you keep old dogs. You kind of like having them around just because you have all ways had them around.

[bobthenailer]

I spent most of my life working as a auto tech for GM dealerships . One day i was at the local GM training center and a GM engineer was in my class , I commented about a like senario ! he said after his group designed something it then went to another group of people who's job it was, was how to make it cheaper ! he said after his group designed it he never saw it again and usually does not know how the final product turned out .
I belive the end goal is to make the product as cost effective as possible and still maintain some quality and to make factory assembly of the auto/truck as cost effective for them as possible. with possibly some thought for being worked on by the Tech or the back yard mechanic.

[HangFireW8]

As long as people keep buying cars like this, the industry will keep making them like this.

[HangFireW8]

My defroster motor smoked yesterday.

First step in removing the fan motor?

REMOVE ENGINE.

What kind of nonsense is that?

Somebody told you wrong. 02 Echo blower is accessed through the glove box. There are two different motors, make sure you buy the right one.

[10x]

The sad thing is that comparable vehicles don't get all that much better mileage now. When I graduated High school in 1982 I bought a 1957 F100 short bed, Y block V-8 (never did know if it was a 272 or a 292), with the smallest two barrel carb I have ever seen, three speed, manual everything. It got 14-15 MPG.

I now have a 2006 F150, 4.2 V6 auto that gets 14-16 MPG. It does ride and drive easier, with a lot more creature comforts.

The 57 had enough room under the hood to crawl in and reach anything; the 06 you can reach the dipstick, and fill the radiator's plastic tank on the fender.

Robert

The last time I drove my '57 chev it got 28 miles per gallon.
My 1983 Dodge Van got 12 miles per gallon brand new out of the dealership and would not shut off with the key.
After "power tuning" - heading up a hill with the engine lugging and advancing the spark til we got a ping, then backing off 5 degrees the '83 van could get up 24 miles per gallon on long trips on the highway, and most other problems I had with the engine were solved. The engine ran for over 12 years and 200,000 miles and still got 20 to 24 mpg on the highway when I sold it.
My toyota tundra can get 23 mpg on a long trip if I don't let my wife drive.

[Forgetful]

I imagine modern vehicles are designed to not be fixed, like everything else these days. It breaks, its easier to throw it away and buy another one. I'm sure they would love that. IMO, they're designed to break or wear out. "They don't make them like they used to," for economic reasons.

It isn't terribly difficult for me to imagine a vehicle in the near future needing a new battery would need to be sent back to the Apple store for battery replacement, as warranty will void if you take it anywhere else, and you'll need to hoist the whole engine out to reach it.

[starmac]

Lots of mention of the 390, plugs and shock towers, also the pontiacs with an air compressor in the way for that one plug. I will say we remember them as a royal pita back in the day, when in reality we could have those 390's sitting on the floor before the plugs can be located in some newer vehicles. The definition of pita has changed as far as autos are concerned, in my opinion. lol

[oneokie]

Lots of mention of the 390, plugs and shock towers, also the pontiacs with an air compressor in the way for that one plug. I will say we remember them as a royal pita back in the day, when in reality we could have those 390's sitting on the floor before the plugs can be located in some newer vehicles. The definition of pita has changed as far as autos are concerned, in my opinion. lol
Oldsmobiles of the same year model/s were the same way. Jack the right front up, remove the tire and wheel, go through the fenderwell.

[azrednek]

Looks like my 1990 Ford F-150 might be headed to the junkyard. Of coarse it happens a month after spending nearly 400 getting the A/C working and another 100 on rear load-leveler shocks. The automatic tranny has bit the dust. I haven't rebuilt an automatic since the mid-70's and after receiving a 2,000 and 2200 estimate on an overhaul. I'm shooting dice on a junk yard transmission for 325.

Guess I'm showing my age. When the transmission failed to upshift. I figured it was either defective modulator valve or a vacuum leak. No such luck, after some net searching. The tranny does not have an external modulator but rather an internal electric solenoid. I managed to get it to upshift by taking it to about 5,000 RPM's in manual low, let up on the gas and shifting to D-2. It went all the way into overdrive but unfortunately it stayed in overdrive after coming to a stop. I got it out of OD by placing it in reverse then back into drive but continued my 20 or so mile journey back home stuck in 1st gear.

The 1990 truck I inherited from my uncle only has about 103,000 miles on it. By the time the state of California took my 90 year old uncle's license away. The truck is full of dings and small dents. Hate to see it go. Every man needs a truck. Despite its age it has a huge and very comfortable cab, I'm 6'3" 230 lbs. It gives me pretty good mileage and being a California vehicle it passes Arizona's annual emission's testing without a hitch. Hopefully the junk yard tranny works for me.

I also have a 74 Ford 4X4 short bed with you guessed it, a 390. I parked it at my son's house about 4 or 5 years ago and haven't fired it up in a couple years. I got tired of feeding the 74. 10 MPG only if I keep my foot out of it and the only way it runs right is with premium gas with an octane booster. Just can't buy gas today with the high octane leaded gas it was designed to run on.

[starmac]

Before you scrap that 90 model, check the rubber grommet on the passing gear cable. That 50 cent part has caused a lot of transmissions in those model fords to be replaced or rebuilt, only for the new one to act the same way until it is replaced. Don't ask me how I know this. GRRRRRRR

[rosewood]

Looks like my 1990 Ford F-150 might be headed to the junkyard. Of coarse it happens a month after spending nearly 400 getting the A/C working and another 100 on rear load-leveler shocks. The automatic tranny has bit the dust. I haven't rebuilt an automatic since the mid-70's and after receiving a 2,000 and 2200 estimate on an overhaul. I'm shooting dice on a junk yard transmission for 325.

Guess I'm showing my age. When the transmission failed to upshift. I figured it was either defective modulator valve or a vacuum leak. No such luck, after some net searching. The tranny does not have an external modulator but rather an internal electric solenoid. I managed to get it to upshift by taking it to about 5,000 RPM's in manual low, let up on the gas and shifting to D-2. It went all the way into overdrive but unfortunately it stayed in overdrive after coming to a stop. I got it out of OD by placing it in reverse then back into drive but continued my 20 or so mile journey back home stuck in 1st gear.

The 1990 truck I inherited from my uncle only has about 103,000 miles on it. By the time the state of California took my 90 year old uncle's license away. The truck is full of dings and small dents. Hate to see it go. Every man needs a truck. Despite its age it has a huge and very comfortable cab, I'm 6'3" 230 lbs. It gives me pretty good mileage and being a California vehicle it passes Arizona's annual emission's testing without a hitch. Hopefully the junk yard tranny works for me.

I also have a 74 Ford 4X4 short bed with you guessed it, a 390. I parked it at my son's house about 4 or 5 years ago and haven't fired it up in a couple years. I got tired of feeding the 74. 10 MPG only if I keep my foot out of it and the only way it runs right is with premium gas with an octane booster. Just can't buy gas today with the high octane leaded gas it was designed to run on.

I pulled mine myself and had it rebuilt for <$500 by a local fellow that builds racing trannys. Nary a problem since. Might want to check around on pricing. However, if you have rebuilt them before, this one isn't much different. The solenoids just plug in.

[Mk42gunner]

Lots of mention of the 390, plugs and shock towers, also the pontiacs with an air compressor in the way for that one plug. I will say we remember them as a royal pita back in the day, when in reality we could have those 390's sitting on the floor before the plugs can be located in some newer vehicles. The definition of pita has changed as far as autos are concerned, in my opinion. lol
Not a 390 but...

Growing up My buddy had a 65 Mustang that was more than a little warmed up. We went through enough engines that we got to where we would pull it under the hackberry tree in his dad's back yard with the hood on and drive it away with the hood on four hours later; swapping the cam, lifters, heads and intake.

This was the era of the $50-$100 dollar car so we bought a few junkers for the engine alone. I remember buying at least one 289 or 302 for $25.00.

Looking back, I think the best thing was that we were outside doing something; not sitting on the couch playing video games.

Robert

[Bad Water Bill]

A friend,my brother and I visited a gas station in Chiraq where they had TWO Model A-s on the property.

For a total of $30.00 we drove both of them home that evening.

Yes this was around 1962-4.

After removing the 65# flywheel removing the engine was a piece of cake.

[Blacksmith]

There are different kinds of engineering:

Design engineering - Designs stuff. Make it work.

Industrial design - Make stuff pretty. If it doesn't look good it wont sell even if it works.

Design for manufacture - Designs stuff so it can be manufactured easily and inexpensively. Rivets are cheaper than nuts and bolts.

Most companies stop here but there is also something called.

Design for maintenance - Make it so it can be maintained and fixed, if needed, easily and inexpensively. Cuts down on sales of new products.

Then there is something I thought up.

Pre-purchase engineering - Before you buy something look under the hood and search out repair histories. If you can't see the oil filter or spark plugs how are you or anyone else going to change them? If the timing belt routinely breaks at 50,000 miles and drives the valves into the pistons don't buy the thing. Never buy something that is the "Newest" or "Completely Re-designed" give them a few years to work out the bugs and establish a repair record (a repair record is both frequency as well as cost of repairs both parts and labor). And all the bells and whistles are nice, power this and that, automatically readjusting seats, TV's, GPS, etc.; but each added bell or whistle is one more thing to break and the fancier it is the more expensive to repair or replace.

If you are a mechanic getting paid by someone else to fix things these are good if you are the guy paying the bills or fixing it yourself they are bad.

[rosewood]

Hey, I practice pre-purchase engineering, just didn't know it.

[HangFireW8]

I agree with the idea of pre-purchase engineering, but unseen spark plugs under coil packs and an engine cover can be very easy to change- or very hard.

[MaryB]

You want designed to not be worked on try a slot machine. I have the scars to prove it from cramming my arm down into a crevice to reach nuts the guys couldn't get to. In one case we had a power supply that died frequently, held in a slide mount by 4 bolts. It was installed then the case was riveted around it. I figured out that drilling a hole in the monitor bracket would let me reach in with 3 feet of extension and get it out. That nut was lost on every machine after awhile. Had others where the ticket printer was buried in the top case above the monitor and another case of everything including the printer riveted in place. Printers died frequently too so that was another re-manufacture to make them repairable with a slide under the printer and 1 nut to remove to pull it out the front without taking the entire top off the machine. I spent hours doing stuff like that to make everyone's job easier.

[facetious]

I recall seeing a guy on TV from MIT saying that most stuff made wasn't made to impress the customer but to impress other engineers. He then went on to show a TV remote and went on about how he has never figured out how to use all the buttons or what thy were for. He went on to say that he was the guy who invented HDMI but had to have some one come and set up his new entertainment center because when he tried he couldn't get it to work. Even he wondered why thy have to make every thing so hard to use when thy could just as easily make thing so much easier.

[rosewood]

Had a College professor that had her Doctorate in Electrical Engineering. We had to operate the DVD player for her.

[HangFireW8]

Silly options on mass market A/V products are the result of marketing departments, not rogue engineers.

Let's not get too far off topic. Someone in Detroit has to pay for the suffering we've been through, and by we I don't mean anyone who paid extra for the Drag Pack option on their old musclecar.

[azrednek]

Before you scrap that 90 model, check the rubber grommet on the passing gear cable. That 50 cent part has caused a lot of transmissions in those model fords to be replaced or rebuilt, only for the new one to act the same way until it is replaced. Don't ask me how I know this. GRRRRRRR

Thanks for the advice but the tranny is toast. Dropped the pan and it is a mess inside.

[azrednek]

Not a 390 but...

Growing up My buddy had a 65 Mustang that was more than a little warmed up. We went through enough engines that we got to where we would pull it under the hackberry tree in his dad's back yard with the hood on and drive it away with the hood on four hours later; swapping the cam, lifters, heads and intake.

This was the era of the $50-$100 dollar car so we bought a few junkers for the engine alone. I remember buying at least one 289 or 302 for $25.00.

Looking back, I think the best thing was that we were outside doing something; not sitting on the couch playing video games.

Robert

When I was younger I kept a 69 F-100 going for well over 300,000 miles. Wear out an engine I'd just look for a junk Mercury, T-Bird or LTD. Back then 390's were a dime a dozen. If the junker was towable I'd pay at most $100. I accumulated a pile of parts like starters alternators and carbs.

My X-wife out of bitterness demanded my old truck in the divorce. I swapped engines before giving it to her.

[rosewood]

Hey guys, it isn't just detroit. In my '85 Honda Accord, you had to remove the left front wheel and remove the half shaft (which partially drained the tranny) just to take off the alternator. Spent hours one night trying to get the alternator out and couldn't fit it through a hole anywhere until I gave up and removed the half shaft. Things do change over the years though. You could replace the heater core in the 88 bronco II in about 20 minutes. In 2007 Saturn Vue, you have to take the entire dash out, same for the AC evaporator (ask me how I know).

[rockrat]

Yep, would like to take the design engineers and whoever else was involved in the placement of the transmission crossmember and exhaust pipe, on a 95 blazer I was working on today.
Made an hour job into a 4 hour job. Move the offending parts 1" away from the tranny pan and the pan would have been easily removed. As it was, would like to have kicked the **&^% out of the offenders , so they would have to pass gas between their ears!!!!:cry:

[azrednek]

I pulled mine myself and had it rebuilt for <$500 by a local fellow that builds racing trannys. Nary a problem since. Might want to check around on pricing. However, if you have rebuilt them before, this one isn't much different. The solenoids just plug in.

Guess Lady Luck is asleep as my junk yard tranny is a ***. Added to the 375 cost were new seals, filter kit and apx 12 qts of ATF. Now the real battle begins as the junk yard does not have another, can't locate one, no cash refund policy and all they want to do is give me $375 in credit toward future purchases. If they don't come up with another tranny by Monday afternoon I guess it is small claims court.

If I prevail in court then it is another battle trying to collect. I won a case years ago after buying a hot revolver I had to surrender to the police. My X-wife was a cop, ran the numbers and it was reported stolen. I never got a dime as the creep moved out of state.

[GLL]

Anybody change a headlight lately ? :)

Whatever happened to simple, very inexpensive, sealed beamed headlamps?

Jerry

[azrednek]

Anybody change a headlight lately ? :)

Whatever happened to simple, very inexpensive, sealed beamed headlamps?

Jerry

The new headlights are a classic example of the manufacture saving a few bucks on the assembly line at the expense higher labor costs replacing it. I remember the good ol'days when anybody could pull into any gas station and get a new headlight installed for only 4 or 5 bucks.

[big bore 99]

Or, when you flooded a carb out, you could just find a twig on the ground and prop the butterfly open while you cranked.

[azrednek]

Or, when you flooded a carb out, you could just find a twig on the ground and prop the butterfly open while you cranked.

That really brings back some memories. My mother couldn't get it right. Pump the gas pedal a few times on a cold engine my father told her. She'd do it on a warm engine, flood it out then couldn't understand why it wouldn't start. I was about 12 or 13 and remember having to remove the warm oil bath air cleaner on a 57 Ford. Hold the butterfly open and remind her not to pump the gas pedal.

[ol skool]

I read every post in this thread and no one has mentioned wrenching on air-cooled VW's.

Started when I was 7. These are engineered to work on as they need constant and routine maintenance to keep them running. Total engine rebuild: an after work job and in bed by 11:00. Done it. Only draw back, that engine tin is SHARP!

Gotta '65 Type 1 crank sunroof in the garage, it's the retirement project. 82mm Berg crank with 912 rods and Berg's special order 88mm jugs. Should be able to hop over a pop can with that. Smoke just about anything in the 1/8 mile, uh pretty much nothing in the 1/4... LOL!

[starmac]

LOL VW's Would rather work on a timex. lol

[ol skool]

Then you'd feel right at home!

[starmac]

That is just one vehicle I never got into much, they were fun to drive around town though, except for the automatic models.

[MaryB]

I had one of those little Ford Courier pickups. Decent little truck, easy to work on, only issue was the valve cover gaskets were always coming out. Well and the rust holes in the floor on the passenger side. Rainy day I told a friend to duck over my way or get wet. They said I am not doing that so they got a bath. Water would hit the ceiling through that 1" hole.

[Bad Water Bill]

I pulled more than one engine out of a Beetle "BY MYSELF".

The only other cars I was able to do that with were my Model A vintage.

All the work was done without a chainfall or other fancy gadgets.:bigsmyl2:

Even thinking about it makes my bones hurt today.

[ol skool]

That is just one vehicle I never got into much, they were fun to drive around town though, except for the automatic models.

Yeah, VW with auto trans and/or AC were not good no doubt.

But if you tempted to hot rod one of these little things, the power to weight ratio started to work in your favor. The beetle weighed 1700lbs.

[ol skool]

I pulled more than one engine out of a Beetle "BY MYSELF".

The only other cars I was able to do that with were my Model A vintage.

All the work was done without a chainfall or other fancy gadgets.:bigsmyl2:

Even thinking about it makes my bones hurt today.

Oh hear that! Used to think, as a young man, if I could work in a garage on concrete it would be heaven. The dirt sucked!

Well I bought that house and have two garages now to pick from. But for some reason I don't seem to fit under them as good as I used too. And it's a lot harder to pick myself up off the floor than it used to be too!

[Bad Water Bill]

IIRC VW got their start as a German jeep.

It was called "peoples car" because the government took X amount out of your paycheck as a prepayment on the car you were supposed to eventually receive (told to me by my father in law who lived there at that time).

The jeep from WW2 started out with a Ford 4 banger under the hood or so I have been told.

History lesson over so "CLASS DISMISSED".[smilie=s:

[starmac]

Pulled a suzuki sumari engine by hand for the heck of it. The hoist was right there. I hung it on a cotton scale out of curiosity. It weighed 157 pounds complete with flywheel,clutch and starter. lol

[iomskp]

My daughter has a 1963 Mini Minor I changed the fan belt once, that was the first and last time, I thank god her husband to be is a engine rebuilder.

[MaryB]

One thing I see over and over on here... people who either know how to fix stuff or are willing to tackle it anyway and learn. Sure some of us are getting older or crippled and take it to a garage now but in the past I could never afford it so did it myself or had friends help and repaid them by keeping their electronics running.

[Mk42gunner]

Only time I ever really worked on a bug was when I helped one of my friends bleed the brakes on his girlfriend's sister's car. four wheel cylinders, four different sized bleeder valves.

That made a fairly easy job into something else.

Robert

[wallenba]

My defroster motor smoked yesterday.

First step in removing the fan motor?

REMOVE ENGINE.


What kind of nonsense is that?

I'm not recommending this, but a notoriously cheap co-worker of mine had a 59 Chevy beater back in 1989. It had no heater, and a leaky radiator too. He would, every evening (we worked 3rd shift), fill four milk jugs with water in the locker room to top it off for the trip home. Then he would line up birthday cake candles on the dashboard and light them to keep it clear. He had bought it new in 1959. He must have gotten the candles for free, or otherwise he would not have even done that much. I asked him once if it really used that much water going home. He said no, two of them were for the trip back to work the next day. Why add to his water bill, he said.

[facetious]

One thing I see over and over on here... people who either know how to fix stuff or are willing to tackle it anyway and learn. Sure some of us are getting older or crippled and take it to a garage now but in the past I could never afford it so did it myself or had friends help and repaid them by keeping their electronics running.


I wonder if maybe the guys who like to mess with this kind of stuff and playing with guns and reloading may just have a above average mechanical aptitude. It would seem that a lot of guys here make there living with there hands and it caries over to there hobby's.

[dakotashooter2]

I often wonder if the cost of warrantee work doesn't out weight the costs/time saved in manufacturing.

[Blacksmith]

Usually the warranty runs out about a month before the work needs to be done.

[geargnasher]

I often wonder if the cost of warrantee work doesn't out weight the costs/time saved in manufacturing.

Occasionally it does backfire, particularly if there's a safety recall involved, but most of the time the gamble pays off until the warranty period expires and it's not their problem any more. If it didn't pay off, they wouldn't do it this way.

If it's just a pattern failure that the lawyers haven't gotten involved with, then it's a game between the manufacturer and their dealerships. How it works is this: Say you're a dealership and you start having to replace a lot of a certain part under warranty on a new model, like the rear independent suspension 3rd members on the 02 Ford Explorers, for instance. If your dealership starts filing more warranty claims with Ford than the national dealer average, it throws a red flag and Ford starts asking for the old ones back and puts a hold on all claims for a while. If they determine x number aren't legit (which is a fox-guarding-the-henhouse situtation), they don't pay and the dealership with the high numbers eats the parts+labor on those claims. Essentially, the manufacturer has a variety of methods in place to protect against dealership warranty fraud, but also can use those things to protect itself from disastrously expensive multiple pattern failures of high-cost or high-labor parts.

Gear

[gew98]

Got a retired chairforce neighbor whom has some kind of hot dog buick front wheel drive. He needed an alternator replaced and the dealer wanted over a grand...local garages were $900. Seems you need to remove radiator , AC core and some other 'junk' to make it happen. I told him bring it over and a 30 pack of beer and I'll figure it out. I looked at the radiator support and it struck me that if one got the sawzall out and made a portion of it removeable - like pulling a motor out of those older vans when I was a kid with dad. I had it out and in under 2 hours. Only extra cost was I had to disconnect the AC core and he had to have that recharged . He was so happy he got me another 30 pack.... I love it when neighbors know my weakness as I love beer... of course the wife would rather see money , but hey if it does not cost me any $$ why not pass on the savings to good people. Now about automotive engineers had I had one as a neighbor... he'd get his house egged on a frequent basis !!!.

[10-x]

I'll second the idea that most engineers need to have at least 4 -5 years as a mechanic or tech. I've worked on lots of mechanical things in my life. In Vietnam a pal and I learned to change the engine and transmission in a M 151 in about 3 hours. We got a few 3 day passes from that. Later when I went into the machine tool building , field set up training operator and repairs it was plain to see design engineers had no clue. Ever work on one of those damn English gear shapers?( I can't even type the name) or how about a BullardVTL, not to mention all the other real US made machines. The european and other Asian ones are not much better. In the end I say all engineers need to be taken out and beat with rubber hydraulic hoses every Monday AM by the mechanic/ techs, just MHO.

[facetious]

A guy I used to work with all ways used to say " that every thing is easier sitting at a desk". He was talking about bosses but the same go's engineers.

[rondog]

This is precisely why I'm restoring my dad's 1956 Willys CJ5 to showroom new condition. You wanna talk about a simple vehicle to work on! My problem is that I don't have a proper workshop to rebuild it in, and I'm too anal about making it perfect, so it's not done yet. But I've made some tremendous progress with it. When it's done it'll look like it just rolled out of the showroom, maybe better.