New swagger question

[Matt Muir]

I will either pour or swag bullets for a 45-70 thats comming on Wed. The PP bullet seems very straight forward, the lubed bullet may be another story from what I read. I have a few questions for the experts.


1. Do the dies from Corbin that they make for existing reloders work? I have an RCBS Rock Chucker that they say will accept their die, I thought I needed a different press...this would be a bonus.

2. Can you roll lube grooves deep enough to not have lead fouling? Does the knurling work as well?

3. Fo I need to buy lead wire, I just got 100 lbs of "soft" lead from the scrap yard for .55 a pound,will this work?

Thanks all, I know this pretty simple stuff for those that do it.

Matt

[MightyThor]

Somewhat complicated issues here. Your particular gun and shooting preferences may dictate somewhat what is good for your situation. If you are shooting a more modern 45-70 you may want faster loads and that may mean you will consider shooting harder bullets and that may mean that you need higher pressures to swage the bullet you want. Rock Chucker is hella strong but the press is only part of the combo. The dies for the swage presses are sometimes different in strength than those for reloading presses. Also depends on effort you want to expend. Handle pull on Corbin or other swage press is easier in Swage mode than the reloading press pull typically. for me less work, equals more work.

The Corbin dies will work as designed, but you need to make sure that they are what you want.

Leading is not just a result of lubrication or lack of lubrication. It is a result of many factors including lead hardness, alloy mix, bullet speed, lubrication, bullet design, barrel condition etc. A grove cut into a particular bullet may be sufficient if you are shooting a hard bullet at slow speed but the same grove will have little effect in a soft bullet at high speed in a rough barrel.

Your lead will make bullets just fine, but again, it may be that you want a certain performance level and you may have to fine tune your bullets for that performance. Example, I shoot cast wheel weights in my cowboy guns and had no leading in the pistols but started to have a little in the lever action. adding a little lube to the bullets took care of the problem. I also could have slowed them down a little and that may have had the same result, but I did not want to loose any speed due to power needs on some knock down targets.

Perhaps the best answer to your question is to suggest that you read as much of the stuff written in these forums as you can. These guys have probably tried every concievable combo under the sun. I also encourage you to experiment yourself, nothing beats finding that perfect combo for your gun and shooting needs.:drinks:

[MT Chambers]

Hold it, stop right where you are, up here(Canada) when someone swaggers, we consider them to be conceited and they don't usually have many friends. It's funny how different the languages are and we only live next door!

[MightyThor]

Hold it, stop right where you are, up here(Canada) when someone swaggers, we consider them to be conceited and they don't usually have many friends. It's funny how different the languages are and we only live next door!
This coming from a guy that spells color with a "U":roll::-D

[Scrounger]

Try swager

[Buckshot]

I will either pour or swag bullets for a 45-70 thats comming on Wed. The PP bullet seems very straight forward, the lubed bullet may be another story from what I read. I have a few questions for the experts.


1. Do the dies from Corbin that they make for existing reloders work? I have an RCBS Rock Chucker that they say will accept their die, I thought I needed a different press...this would be a bonus.

Can't answer this one

2. Can you roll lube grooves deep enough to not have lead fouling? Does the knurling work as well?

Do you plan on shooting BP or smokless?

3. Fo I need to buy lead wire, I just got 100 lbs of "soft" lead from the scrap yard for .55 a pound,will this work?

[b] It should work, but you have to get it into a form that is useable to use in your swage die

Thanks all, I know this pretty simple stuff for those that do it.

Matt

................Buckshot

[Phineas Bluster]

1. Do the dies from Corbin that they make for existing reloders work? I have an RCBS Rock Chucker that they say will accept their die, I thought I needed a different press...this would be a bonus.

The last I knew the reloading press dies were offered only up to .38 caliber handgun. The reason given was that if the hardened insert that fit into the 7/8-14 reloading press adaptor was made in a larger caliber there would not be enough wall thickness remaining to hold up to the pressures generated to swage the larger diameter bullets.


2. Can you roll lube grooves deep enough to not have lead fouling? Does the knurling work as well?

The hand cannelure tool offered by Corbin can roll a groove to any depth desired in a lead bullet. However, the bullet is very badly distorted by this operation. It would have to be lubed and the run back into the swaging die to reform the bullet.

The knurling wheel will impart a surface similar to the knurling that was used, and for all I know is still used, by Hornady on their swaged lead bullets. I find this knurling system to be inferior to a cast and lubricated bullet as personal experience has resulted in severe leading if any other than very low velocities are required.


3. Fo I need to buy lead wire, I just got 100 lbs of "soft" lead from the scrap yard for .55 a pound,will this work?

If you do decide to take up swaging, core molds are available that will allow you to cast cores from your supply of lead.


Personally, I would recommend that you go with a cast bullet of gas check design if you intend to shoot a lead bullet. If you want to produce jacketed bullets then swaging is the way to go. In the .45/70 you really don't need expansion as you are already punching about a 1/2" diameter hole in the target and jackets are not needed to push the old Government cartridge to it's limits. A decent casting outfit including a sizer-lubricator and a couple of molds can be had for less than the investment into swaging tools. And once the initial investment in casting is made additional calibers can be added for the price of a new mold and sizer die with top punch.

I'm not trying to discourage you from swaging I totally enjoy the hobby, but for your situation I feel that casting is the best option.

[Matt Muir]

Thanks for the reply's. I may try the pour first, just looked a little faster to swag.

[Bent Ramrod]

Matt,

Generally, swagers are either competitors who make their own bullets for competition/special applications or people fascinated by swaging or people who are a combination of both. But keep in mind that a die set that may cost over $300 will produce jacketed bullets at maybe the rate of a single cavity boolit mould's production of lead ones.

Except for the obvious things jacketed bullets can do that cast can not, and the sense of satisfaction that comes from being a "manufacturer," (I like that:mrgreen:) there is no speed, economy or production advantage of swaging over casting that I've ever been able to perceive.