Bator mold came in today!

[wyrmzr]

I just cast my first run with my new Bator mold.
My first few came out wrinkled, even after attempting about 50 of them, so I decided I needed to adjust for the cooler weather today, and the relatively small boolit in a fairly large chunk of aluminum.
I bumped up the temp from 700F to 710, and here's what I got:
118134
The only oddity is that the mold is rated for 55 grains, and the boolits are dropping at 50.5 instead. All my other boolits drop slightly over the rated weight with the same COWW lead. Other than that, they look good, but now it's time to fire some. My test bench will be my Savage Axis, and I may then try to see if they will work through my AR, but not getting my hopes up there yet.

[43PU]

My bator does extremely well with 3.5grn herco in my axis

[Garyshome]

I haven't used mine yet...but the time is getting near.

[MGnoob]

........... I may then try to see if they will work through my AR, but not getting my hopes up there yet.

What makes you think they won't work out of your Ar? With such a rounded nose you should be able to drive them pretty fast without experience "Nose slump" Well that's what I've been calling it.

What size do they drop from the mold? I wonder why they are coming out under weight.. I would like to somday try out that projectile, i've following the posts about it for a while now, and this is the first one i read about them being underweight.

[wyrmzr]

They're all measuring out at .224 diameter. Not sure why they're under weight; this is the one thing that baffles me.
I have no issues trying them in the AR, but there are a lot of people who swear 1) cast shouldn't be shot in the AR platform at all, and 2) most the of the moulds produced make boolits that just won't work, for one reason or another.
I'm in the process of going through and weighing the boolits to see if there are any anomalies to report; partly just making sure I don't have voids in a bunch of them, or any such oddities.
I'm hoping weather is good enough tomorrow to fire some test rounds in the Axis, then from there I'll be trying to work up loads for the AR. I'm still waiting on gas checks, but I know I can load light rounds for the bolt action for easier than for the AR.

[runfiverun]

1 HAhahahaha, whatever.

2 they are right, however there are many that will.

[wyrmzr]

I double checked weights on all the boolits cast today; they vary from 50.0 to 51.1 grains. For this first batch, I won't sort by weight, because I'm just experimenting. When I decide I'm making good enough boolits to do what I want to do, then I'll get pickier.
As an added measure, I cast up a bunch of my .40 boolits with the same lead, in the off chance I somehow got some "light weight" lead. The .40 boolits dropped the same as always, 175 grain mold, boolits dropping at 180 grains. Now, the Bator mold is supposed to cast .225, and mine is casting .224, but is that enough to make a 5 grain difference? Even if it is, I'm not going to bother lapping or beagling it, as once I've got the experience under my belt, I'll likely be upgrading to molds for heavier boolits, particularly for the AR platform.

[MGnoob]

Now, the Bator mold is supposed to cast .225, and mine is casting .224, but is that enough to make a 5 grain difference? .

most likely not, i've only got 1 mold that drops at a different weight than specified it's a 9mm 147 grain that drops at 158. i don't care for it.

I order mine to drop 60 grain .224 out of COWW they drop at 59.8-60.0 grain .222-.223 it work great for me because i plate to .229-.230 than size to .224 62 grain.

i believe if i used lino type i would drop at .223-.224 and little to no different in weight .3 grains at most weight difference.

So i doubt you will be able to make up the difference in weight with alloy alone.
But hey, Shoot them and if they work acaptable for your application. if they do who cares...my guess would be at 50 grains with the right powder you'll still be able to get your ar to cycle .

[MGnoob]

delete

[762 shooter]

My 6 cav Lee bator drops 50/50 1% tin air cooled at .225 and 50.ish grains.

I use them for low power 22LR substitute in a .223 RAR.

762

[wyrmzr]

I was just thinking these may work great for squirrel and rabbit hunting; get both the AR and the Axis sighted with them, and get some head shots in, and I'm golden. By and large, they could help me with the current shortage of .22LR.
Add to that the fact I should be able to get much better groups out of them than I would with the .22LR at 100 yards, and I may have on very nice varmint round. Let the experimenting begin!
I'm currently PCing a few to add that into the mix. Could be a very informative range day tomorrow.

[wyrmzr]

Well, I tested them out today; I made up a dozen with LLA, and another dozen with HF red PC.
The first ones fired through the Savage Axes were all over at 25 yards; about a 4 inch group. Those were PC. The lubed ones fared only slightly better. Given that I only had 10 grains of IMR 4227 behind them, I think more powder is needed to get some spin going.
On a whim, I also tried them in the AR. Not surprisingly, they did not work well with the action, but they did chamber and were at least as accurate as they were in the Axis. It's time to work up some loads.

[Moonie]

H4895 provides enough gas to cycle, normally in the 16-18gr range depending on length of your gas system.

[wyrmzr]

I wish I could find other powders around here right now; at this point, I've only got IMR 4227, H335, and Universal Clays.
I just made up a 15 of each with IMR 4227 with the 11, 12, and 13 grains. I'm planning on getting out to test those tomorrow, both in the bolt action and the AR. Best case is that they're not only accurate, but they fully cycle the action on the AR.
10 grains cycled the action about half way, which was just enough to leave the empty case just off center in the chamber without ejecting, and not enough to pick up the next round. Not a stovepipe, as the case didn't eject far enough to stick out the ejection port, and also not a double feed, with the spent case and the new round trying to chamber together.
I most likely could load hotter than 13 grains, with the relatively light bullet, but I'll try these loads first. Maybe I'll get lucky and find I don't have to go on the prowl for either a different powder, or a heavier boolit.

[wyrmzr]

I finally got out today to try the Bators with 11, 12, and 13 grains of IMR 4227 behind them. All 3 would not group well, (best of about 4 inches at 25 yards) in either my Savage Axis or my AR.
The 13 grains did manage to cycle the action on the AR, but did not lock the action back on the last round.
I've still got two things to consider here, though.... First, I didn't have gas checks on any of these. The checks came in today. Of course, the Bator is designed for a gas check, so perhaps that will make a difference. Second, the bullets drop at between 50 and 51 grains, rather than the advertised 55 grains mentioned on the mold itself.
So, I'm about to start a bunch of them at 13 grains of IMR 4227, with gas checks, with a few running perhaps 13.5 or even 14 grains, given the light weight of this bullet The Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook has load data from around 10 grains to 13 grains for 55 grain cast with IMR 4227, but of course 50-51 isn't in that list.
I will work these up slowly, as I'm not just looking for the AR to cycle, but I'm also looking for accuracy for the bolt action. That may mean two completely different loads, even with the same rifling, but we'll see if I can reach a happy medium... Here's hoping.

[wyrmzr]

I know I'm resurrecting one of my own old threads, but I do have some updates.
I've now tried the cast bullets out of the bator mold more recently, which means since the barrel on the AR actually broke in.
With 11 grains of 4227, the shells don't eject, and I got about 4 inch groups at 50 yards. While this isn't great, it's actually an improvement over the groups I got before the barrel broke in, which were about the same size at 25 yards. Half these bullets were powdercoated, half were lubed with LLA.
With 13 grains of 4227, the PC bullets also grouped about 4 inches at 50 yards, and the lubed ones weren't even on paper. So, time to try the 13 grain lubed ones at 25 yds to see what I'm actually getting.
I'll also step up to as much as 14 grains, but I've run into a snag, where my cast loading manuals have all disappeared since I moved a couple of months ago. So, my usual source for data, aside from here, is AWOL.
One other thing I'm going to attempt is running Red Dot. It's the only powder I currently have besides the 4227 and H335.
It sounds like I don't need a filler for this one, either, from what I've read on the boards here.

[MGnoob]

Your just using the wrong powder....and not enough volocity..As is 4" groups at 100 yards is retarded easy (imo)

I'm going to necro-rez an old thread of mine as well No worries.

[GhostHawk]

I think I agree about wrong powder.

As to velocity I have no problems getting a 2" group at 50 yards with 4-6 grains of Red Dot. (No that will NOT cycle your AR, in fact there is no safe load of RD that will)

That being said for a bolt gun or single shot these are great. Certainly as good as .22lr, hit with more thump, and cheaper by far than buying .22lr. I've been putting mine together without gas checks and keeping the speed below 1400 fps, or trying.

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

I also used Red Dot with the bator in 223, accuracy started getting good at 4 gr or less.
I started at 6gr and worked down when boolits were all over the place. this was in a bolt gun.

[wyrmzr]

At this point, getting the action to fully cycle is secondary to accuracy. I can always chamber the next round quickly, but the focus is on not needing to fire that second round. So long as it doesn't stovepipe or double feed, I'll be happy to have it accurate at 100 yards.
A functioning action would be a bonus, but I figure I'll settle for having the rough equivalent of a .22 hornet.
My cast will be good cheap plinking rounds, leaving me to spend money on varmint rounds.

[trixter]

I would like to get in on this discussion. I have a Lee Bator mold in 6 cavity, and last winter I cast up a quart jar full of these little boolits. I bought a box of copper gas checks, and have started to put the two together. My mold drops (range lead) at .226 to .227. I use Lee liquid alox mixed with Johnson's Liquid floor wax. I lube them, apply gas checks, run them through my .225 sizer, and lube them again. I load them with 8gr of Alliant Unique. I tried up to 10gr, but found that 8gr works best for me. I shoot these out of a Mossberg MVP model #27700.
I have been killing paper with this combo for several months now, and with pleasing results. The rifle has been through 2 seasons of squeek hunting using full on loads of 24gr Ramshot TAC and Hornady 55gr V-Max bullets. My kill ratio was not as good as I would have liked it to be, so I decided I needed to practice, but didn't want to waste the 'Good stuff' plus I love to plink. With 22 ammo in such short supply, I decided on the above.
While wandering through Amazon the other day I came across the Champion 'Duraseal Spinner Target'. We set it up at 25 yds for my 10 year old grandson. He shoots a Crikett 22 singleshot. It has the Crikett scope on it and he nails it first shot and off hand too. We had some other rifles to zero in on paper and then moved to 100 yds. He struggled and then his dad put the Crikett in the lead sled and zeroed it in. Then he was hitting it pretty well. I got the Mossberg out again and was able to spin it 9 out of 10 times with the Bator loads. I am sold on these boolits, and will be emptying that quart jar real soon.

So lets talk Bator.

[wyrmzr]

I finally got to testing with both the 4227 and Red Dot loads today. With 6.7 grains of RD, I got 2 inch groups, all in direct line with the bullseye, but low. Action didn't cycle, which is no big surprise.
The 4227 was all over the place, so it's a big no for that powder.
From here, it's time to start looking for other powders that people have gotten working.

[Scottyh]

I bought the 6cavity Bator also, it drops my wheel weight lead at .2265. I run them through a lee push through die that I reamed out to .227 just to crimp the gas checks. Over 7grains of Little Gun, it is the most accurate cast Boolit I have found for my 22hornet.

[GhostHawk]

I'm running the Bator also, without gas checks over 4.6 grains of Red Dot.

Yes factory loads hit higher, but if for no other reason these loads make a very good low cost alternative to .22lr. Bigger bullet a touch faster means they'd kill small critters just as well if not better. Sound is about the same as a .22.

I do have jword bullets and can duplicate factory loads if I choose. But 5-7 cents per shot for a good .22lr alternative lets me go to the range and shoot all I want for a dollar or 2. My .223 is a handi rilfe, barrel is an older ejector barrel. So when you open the action the empy goes over my shoulder.

To use the gas checks so I could push those bullets harder gains me little accuracy and range while adding 3 cents a round to the cost. I have to admit I am almost to the tipping point of considering a check maker.

[Lonegun1894]

I have the one made by Pat Marlin, and it works great for the Bator and a couple other .22 molds I have.

[leadman]

My 6 cavity Bator also casts light even with a Lyman #2 alloy. I cast mine out of linotype, install the gas checks, then heat treat to about 35bhn. I coat with Hi-Tek and water quench after each coat. I then size to .225".
In my Contender 23" bull barrel I conducted an experiment to see how fast these could be pushed without leading and some grouping.
I managed to get over 3,600 fps with groups in the 2" to 2 1/2" at 100 yards. In my 16" AR these loads shoot about the same but velocity is just over 3,000 fps and 100% function. These loads were above listed charges of H4895 and I could just barely get the boolit started in the case before compressing the powder. Did this just as an experiment and don't make it a regular practice.
I received the new 22 caliber boolit mold that is close to the RCBS design. Have not cast with it yet but hope to very soon.