Montana vs North Dakota

[Bullshop Junior]

Well...it looks like if everything goes right I am taking a job in Williston ND in the next couple of weeks. Doing the exact same thing I am doing here for more then twice the money.

So. How are the gun/hunting rules in North dakota, or should we settle just on the other side of the state line in montana? What are the pros and cons of each state?

[square butte]

Other side of the border = Ekalaka. My choice would be MT. But can be a tough place to make a living. You might feel right at home there.

[Bullshop Junior]

If we set up residence in Montana, i would still be working in Williston. I dont know much about gun rules in ND.

[runfiverun]

they are gun friendly there.
the drive from anywhere in Montana will kill you if it's a daily commute.

but the price of everything in Williston is super high, so that extra income you'll be making won't be extra.
there are some new apartments just north of Williston along hwy-2.
bring your coats...... and purchase some under armor.
Williston has a couple of gun stores one is on hwy 1804 [scenic sports] it looks like a convenience store but is pretty good.
Runnings carry's a good selection of reloading stuff and is downtown, it looks like a cal ranch type place.
90%+ of the state [north Dakota] is private land, about like texas.

[square butte]

If that's the case - Then, if for no other reason than to be able to buy a Resident Montana hunting license, MT would win it hands down for me.

[waksupi]

I believe if you live in Montana, and work in North Dakota, you will have to pay state income taxes to both states. Try to dodge doing it in Montana, they pull hunting and fishing rights for five years, last I heard.

[runfiverun]

ND does charge you state income tax even if you are a resident of another state.
we get an 8% increase for working there to cover it, and we have to work 6 weeks out of the state on top of our time off to avoid being made citizens.
we have to file state income tax returns with NoDak every year to keep things on the level.
they also charge you sales tax on food if you come over from Montana to shop.

interesting tid-bit about nodak.
they have the only state owned grain co-op and flour mill in the country.
a socialist type thing.

[GhostHawk]

Watch yourself over there, lots of undesirable types brought in by the freely flowing cash.
Lot of people are living in places I'd not even consider.

It used to be very empty and quiet on that side of the state.

Now its overpopulated, and law enforcement and local government is overworked just trying to keep up.
There is money to be made, but the trick is hanging on to it, pretty much like any boom town.

If you get over to Fargo give me a yell and I'll put the coffee on.

[osteodoc08]

BSJ, I'd still recommend GA. Good economic growth. Cheap cost of living. Jobs in your sector available. Just sayin.

[rockrat]

Heck, go North a bit to Oklahoma. Public land and I suspect plenty of oil field jobs. Check out Continental, American Energy Partners , or Devon

[jumbeaux]

Study on it before you jump. Lodging, food and general living expenses are darn high...takes a big bite out of your money. Traffic can be terrible...roads were not designed for all of the extra people. Find a place to live before you jump...may have to rent a room in one of the trailer houses...common to rent a room utilize a shower trailer and a chow hall...good luck...

rick

[Smoke4320]

BSJ
The guys actually living in ND are dead on
Trying to tell you all that increase in pay will be more than eat up by the extremely hi cost of living now in ND .
You may spend a lot to find yourself in worse situation

[Bullshop Junior]

Whats the price of gas/grocerys? Can't be worse then AK.

[waksupi]

The guys around here say they aren't making a bit more money working the Bakken, because of the high prices. I imagine food is pretty high, since McDonald's employees start at $15 per hour.

Even as an Alaskan, I suspect you will find a North Dakota winter rather invigorating.

[GhostHawk]

I have no idea of costs on the other side of the state.

Here in Fargo Gas is in the 3.20's to 3.40's.
The days of being able to get a semi decent meal at McDonald's for 5$ are gone.

And specifically, unless you are willing to sleep in your truck in -35 weather finding a place to sleep can cost you more than you make.

Yes there is money to be made if you have skills. But be prepared to drive LONG distances to find a decent place to sleep.

We are seeing people living in their vehicle M-F then drive 200 miles to get a decent place to sleep, do laundry, eat. Spend the weekend getting laundry done, catching up on food and sleep and drive back at o dark 30 monday morning to be there in time for work.

That way you actually have a chance to save a few dollars.

As to our winters, I don't think we have anything on Fairbanks.

But I suspect ours can be a bit colder than a lot of Alaska especially on the coastline experience.

Wind Chill is the worst, thankfully we have few days with -20 and 30 mph winds.
Working outside in winter is a real challenge.

When I was working as a construction plumber our buildings would have plywood roof, walls, but no windows, and no heat.
I don't care what boots you wear you can NOT stay warm fitting copper at -30.
Everyone pretty much had their own Halogen work light because they crank out a LOT of heat. Plugged in and setup in some small closet space it can make 30-50 degree difference in the air temp. They won't keep it warm enough to not hurt, but it will help keep you from losing parts.

But, working on a rig you won't have ANYWHERE to get away from the cold.

Lots of guys working in the BAKKEN, and they pay good money. But cost of living is higher, and housing is incredibly hard to find.

Montana might be better, but then your looking at long commutes and spending all your money on gas.

Best solution is to find the same work at a slightly reduced level of pay in Bismark, Fargo, or Grand Forks.

Plenty of reasonable housing, 500$ a month and up.
If your good with your hands, there are jobs to be had here as well.

If you get to Fargo give me a yell, I'll put the coffee on.

[Bullshop Junior]

It looks like I have a job lined out in Williston operating heavy equipment (what i am doing now) that will supply housing for me at $650 a month.

[ole 5 hole group]

I would listen to Waksupi - If you have the job skills a company needs, they will provide family housing and per diem plus salary. If you don't have special skills the companies offer a few incentives but overall, very few come out ahead without housing and per diem.

That area never expected to grow that fast - the State doesn't possess the talent (read incompetent politicians) to deal with the growth and problems. Nothing is improving - in areas where they are trying to get a handle on education by building larger schools - the residents are screaming and balking, as who will get stuck with higher taxes once this thing settles down in the next 10 to 15 years? How will they come up with the money now, as they aren't benefiting from the oil as it is. As a result day care, education and family services are really lacking, among other areas as well.

Williston's gas prices are usually 30 to 40 cents a gallon higher than Fargo - usually 20 cents higher than Bismarck. Walmark prices are the highest in the State - comparing Walmart to Walmart. Food prices are probably comparable to Fairbanks??

Traffic is terrible at best - Housing prices are out of sight and for most - they aren't much more than a sleeping room. If you are getting housing at $650 a month, well, that's a great price, but what type of housing is it - man camp, trailer, apartment or efficiency room? Do you pay utilities?

Your down time will be a treat - you and your wife will be hard pressed to find affordable activities in that area and you'll probably find life a little different in that area compared to other places you have lived in your young life - it'll be an experience. As far as settling down in the area - I think 99.9% of the new comers to that area dismiss that idea within a month and 50% or better leave in less than a year due to weather and living conditions. Weather is what you make of it but with the high winter winds (15+ mph) and -15F to -30F (without that bogus wind-chill factor) your ears will freeze in 5 to 7 minutes and you'll experience facial frostbite in short order, if not properly prepared. You'll probably see a few new fellows with their ears sticking straight out with some nasty looking blisters on them, if you do venture up there.

I'm in that general area (50 miles south) for a week or so every other month and I usually get to talk to several dozen new comers every "visit" up there and most are just marking time unless they have needed skills and their employer sees to their expenses. For those that are able to save some money - well, most are living rather poorly (most would never consider the hardships they endure) in order to save for whatever their saving for.

Summer time some elect to live out of the back of their pickups - ya, that gets to be a smelly deal - some pitch tents for $10/20 a day and that gets old in a hurry. Then there's a sanitation problem - some people will **** where ever needed!!! Campers are fine until the winter months. A lot of people (families) share a couple rooms - that usually doesn't fair too well after a month or two.

There are firearm ranges and clubs in Williston but they are private and have a waiting list. There's others in the area you can drive to but most are private.

You will probably find most hunting to be fee based - upland game will run anywhere from $50 to $75 per gun per day. The farmers and ranchers have their land posted - every inch of it. There's some Federal and State out there but hunting those areas usually just gets you some good exercise. We have great hunting in this State but unless you have family or good friends with land access you'll pay for the experience.

I doubt NE Montana is much different - but the two States do have reciprocal tax agreements, so living in Montana and working in North Dakota will not present a double tax problem.

[GhostHawk]

Best of luck to you then Junior.

Couple of tips.

Pick the best boots you can afford that look warm. Sacrifice a closed cell sleeping bag pad for inserts inside the felt.

Layers of clothing, Carhart bibs+ Jacket, down vest under that, sweater, fleece hoody, and the best long johns you can find.
Wool socks (with very fine silk inside them if you can find them)

For your hands you want real leather "Chopper" type mitts with wool inserts, and inside that a pair of brown jersey gloves.

Skin (especially hands, ears, noses) can freeze in "Seconds" in below zero with significant wind chill.
So you plan so that you can do detail work with gloves on.

Once it truly gets cold it also gets dry, which is good. I've seen mid 30's in New Orleans in late December feel colder than -20 in North Dakota in January. The damp cold seeps to the bone.

Up here its the wind that is the killer, it cuts like a knife, and it cuts through EVERYTHING in time.

Heavy equipment you'll be able to get inside and warm up, so you should be fine.

If your car does not have a frost plug type heater and a brand new 700 cold cranking battery, get them now while you can.
Below 20 below plug the car in. Below 30 below put a trickle battery charger on the battery to keep it charged and warm.

If it gets cold enough you might have to stick a hair dryer up the air intake to get the gas to vaporize.

Be careful about lighting a fire under it. Better to have a small milk house type electric heater and some cardboard to hold the heat in.
But a frost plug type heater is better yet.

You can survive up here, but think conservative! Always at least 2 weeks supply of food on hand and at least some water.

[Beerd]

all good advice
if I'm not mistaken, Daniel knows a little bit about cold from living in Alaska for a while
..

[Bullshop Junior]

Lol. I lived in Alaska most of my life, with a little bit of time about 40 miles west of Williston so, I am familiar with the cold.

[shoot-n-lead]

Good luck with your decision.

Based on the posts, neither of these places would be on my list...but that is just me.

[Akheloce]

I've heard all these comments on ND winters. As a Homeroid from Ak (the banana belt), I spent 3 weeks in Feb in Fargo, and I felt at home. It was a bit colder, but not bad- somewhat like ANC in the winter. (Maybe humidity has a part).

[MaryB]

I always get a chuckle out of the TV shows in AK winter saying it is so extreme, hard to survive, a constant struggle... when people in the middle of the country deal with just as cold. Prepare for it, 2 weeks supply of everything is a minimum, I have gone an entire Jan without bothering to shop because it stayed below zero. Get a calm day on the south side of a house and zero feels downright warm. I second making sure the cars have heaters so they start, a heat lamp aimed at the battery in the morning can make it start easier too.

[Bullshop Junior]

My truck has had oil pan, tranny, frost plug and injector heaters for a long time.

[MT Gianni]

Buy an out of state Mt license and hunt big game near your folks. The drive from MT to ND is sun in your face both ways. As busy as the area is do not expect to shoot recreationally for miles around outside of a range.

[Hardcast416taylor]

My neighbors son went out to the Bakken cash cow about 2 years back. He had all the requirements for being a heavy equipment operator before going out. He now is a crew supervisor and getting $27+ per hour, he works as much as 16/7! The only housing he found was in Mt and he commutes to Williston daily. He gets a $125 per diem allowance for the commute daily plus a $750 rent allowance per month from his company. Saw him about a month back when he came home for 2 weeks vacation. Said he averages about $2800 a week after taxes. He gets a little hunting in on a "small 30,000 acre ranch" his kid woks on in Mt during the week after school. He said there is next to nothing as far as stores for shopping where he lives in a mod home development built for Bakken workers. He says there are rough people there that will steal anything they happen to like or pick a fight over nothing, so be warned. The weather is as has been described already and since you`ve seen Alaska weather you already know what cold and windy is. I only can wish you the best in this job move and keep your back to the wind!Robert

[Superfly]

What are Injector heaters????

No way in hell would I let my wife be any near that Oil field Area. Gun or No Gun. It is the wild west out there.


My truck has had oil pan, tranny, frost plug and injector heaters for a long time.

[dakotashooter2]

I know a couple ranchers out there and the cost of living has been really hard on them. Harder than a bad crop year or low cattle prices. I also know the police chief in Warford City. He told me a couple of years back that they pretty much park in front of the bars waiting for the next call. I used to camp out just off the road when I used to go hunting for a week and wouldn't think of doing that now due to the risk of getting ripped off while I was out hunting. There are quite a few people from my end of the state (NE) that work out there. I think they work 10-12 days on 10-12 days off and commute back here when they are off. They also buy all their food/supplies here and take them with because they are so much cheaper.
Average winter temps out there are actually 5-7 degrees higher than the eastern 1/3 of the state and they generally get a lot less snow.

Personally I'd stick with Montana. The wild game populations are similar but you have some big game options that are not as readily available here.

[Bullshop Junior]

It actually turns out, we leave for montana Monday morning

[Bulldogger]

Safe travels!

[Bullshop Junior]

Thank you!

[MaryB]

Good luck!

[rexherring]

It looks like I have a job lined out in Williston operating heavy equipment (what i am doing now) that will supply housing for me at $650 a month.

If you have housing or housing allowance you should be able to make some money just fine. Without the housing it would be tough as Williston has the highest rent in the nation. Gun laws are pretty good here and doesn't take to much to get CCW after residency or hunting licenses, even the out of state license is cheaper than other states. Lived in ND all my life and if prepared for Winter you're ok. Heck, I even had my Boy Scout Troop out camping in January, crawled out of the tent one morning and it was -16F, why you may ask, just to prove it could be done safely and to teach Winter survival.

[Bullshop Junior]

For yall in the know how, which route looks better?

118760

[MaryB]

Eastern route has a better chance of not hitting snow.

[cheese1566]

Take the route with the most interstate. There isn't much good land in the area of SD on that eastern route in case you need a town for gas or services and not much cell service. Mostly two lane highway. If you choose SD, go up through rapid city, but then you hit the ND boom traffic at the border. My dad used to pilot car equipment and mobile trailers from SD to the Canada border. He gave it up based on the traffic and craziness in ND.

Be careful and trust no one.

[Superfly]

east route ran it to many times, Coffee cup truck stops are your friend when you get into Sd and Nd. Probably the cheapest fuel too. Also fill up before bismark as the price climbs fast once you I 90.

[Reg]

I need to look at a map but I think US 385 starts down near Dalhart and goes up north past Rapid City where it turns into 85 all the way in to Williston. For the most part it is a at least average 2 lane road and is used a lot of by the oversize loads coming north into the Bakin. There is at times a lot of Colo State Patrol activity ( its revenue you know ) north of I-70 but once you turn north at Sidney ( Cabella's main store with excellent campground ) things open up a bit.
I drive the road every now and then and this is the route I usually follow. I -25 is too far west and takes you out of the way, you would have to come back east on I-80 or I-90. Depending on where you are, you might try the I-135 north through Wichita up to Salina but then again you run out of usable road north and have to take I-70 west until you hit 385 at Burlington.
It's not a bad drive, just long is all.

[ole 5 hole group]

On his map - the designation is Saco, Montana - that's a long hike from Williston.