Tumble lube bullet seating depth

[bigjake]

I have been loading lee tumble lube bullets in all my pistol reloads for a while now. I've seated the TL bullets all the way in except the lead wad cutting edge showing. anyway, i think that lead edge might be catching when the round head spaces on the case. In a couple of my 1911's the slide doesn't shut all the way a few times about 1 time per 10 or so shots, and i can only think of this being the cause. i am thinking of trying to seat the bullets so that the flat spot is flush with the case to avoid the lead lip hitting the inside of the chamber. Has anyone experienced this or have any thoughts on it?

[Bullwolf]

Do the Plunk Test.

See image below.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=114719&d=1391328588

If your boolits OAL is too long to plunk... Seat them deeper (within reason) until the boolit easily plunks.

Here's a great picture thats shows why boolits seated out too long may not easily plunk in your barrel.

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-dScRenzwZzE/Tz3NEksXtcI/AAAAAAAADOU/_pS6NKuOtrU/w860-h645-no/Bullet+Shapes.jpg

Boolit design, and your pistols throat will determine what the correct OAL will be for your gun.

You also do not mention which boolit you plan on TL (Tumble Lubing) in 45.
Is it a TC, SWC, RN, design? 200, 230, 1R, 2R? Different boolit styles will require varying Over All Lengths to plunk, and feed reliably. Tell us what boolit you are using, and you might get even more feedback.

I use the Lee TL452-230-2R for a round nose 45 ACP TL boolit. In my 1911's, a 1.265 OAL easily plunks with a Lee TL452-230-2R. Here's some I loaded.
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=60181&d=1359865941



A TC (Truncated Cone) boolit like the Lee TL452-230-TC requires a different OAL to plunk. I'd start around 1.170 with this boolit, adjust seat depth till it plunks.
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=55626&d=1354908124

Hope that helps some.



- Bullwolf

[kbstenberg]

Bullwolf
I don't know if it helped the OP. But it helped me. THANKS Kevin

[petroid]

OP, not all bullet profiles will feed well in every gun. You can play around with your OAL and see if it helps your feeding issues, but the SWC is often problematic in autoloaders, though there are many guns that feed it fine. The TL452-230-2R is not immune to this problem, either, as the TL bands are wider than the nose leaving a small lip at the case mouth. Truncated Cone bullets are pretty much bulletproof (lol) as far as feeding and the TL452-230-TC should work just fine. But don't forget, you can tumble lube conventional lube groove bullets as well. If you find a bullet design that you like and feeds well, go for it.

[bigjake]

Bullwolf, I load the same TL452-230-2R bullet. what i'm talking about is the lead edge that would be considered the wad cutter edge on the bullet. do you leave a little bit of the edge showing? or, seat it flush with the case mouth? Could that edge catch as the round chambers? .45acp, 40 cal, 9mm head spaces on the case mouth. If that wad cutting edge doesnt get seated flush with the case mouth, it could shave a small amount just before the case head spaces. over the course of shooting 100 or more rds. it could add up to a lot of lead in the chamber and down the barrel.

[Bullwolf]

Bullwolf, I load the same TL452-230-2R bullet. what i'm talking about is the lead edge that would be considered the wad cutter edge on the bullet. do you leave a little bit of the edge showing? or, seat it flush with the case mouth? Could that edge catch as the round chambers? .45acp, 40 cal, 9mm head spaces on the case mouth. If that wad cutting edge doesnt get seated flush with the case mouth, it could shave a small amount just before the case head spaces. over the course of shooting 100 or more rds. it could add up to a lot of lead in the chamber and down the barrel.


Looking closely at a few of my loaded 45 boolits, it appears that in my Lee TL452-230-2R loads, I have left none of the edge you are asking about showing.

However, that's just how the round ended up plunking and it happens to feed fine for me like that in MY guns.

IF leaving some of the edge showing plunked in my barrel, I might have seated my boolits out longer, and left some edge showing. I measured using a pair of digital calipers (which is about all they are good for) to get a ball park OAL for my boolit which for me is an OAL of 1.265

I make a dummy cartridge at this OAL, and use the dummy cartridges to set up my own dies with since this length works in the 1911 pistol barrels that I own.

If I set up to load for my friends CZ97B in 45 ACP for example, I pull his barrel and start all over from scratch setting up a new OAL for his gun. If I am making generic ammo to work in a wide range of guns, I set things up to SAAMI specs, and check the loaded rounds using a Wilson Case Gauge. Remember though every gun is an individual, and just because the ammo gauges, does not mean it will work in ANY gun, just most. Fortunately, I don't happen to own any 45' autos with a match chamber, or that possess a chamber tighter than my Wilson case gauge.

With all this talk about plunking and gauging ammo, I really should also mention that I size all my 45 boolits to .4525 using a Lee push through sizer die, polished out by hand, and measured using a micrometer.

http://www.titanreloading.com/image/cache/data/Products/90055-250x250.jpg

The Lee Sizer die kits are only 15-18 bucks, and you can use them with any standard reloading press.

My old Colt GI 1911 with a pretty loose chamber will not accept a .454 or larger size boolit, but it will chamber .452 to 453 all day long. If you are not sizing your boolits and simply loading and shooting them as cast, occasionally a overlarge one can sneak past quality control, and will cause stoppages.

This tends to happen more often to new caters using a 6 cavity Lee mould while holding all 3 of the handles. Doing so squeezes the mould open, and you get over sized self "beagled" casts. Still even experienced casters are not immune to a piece of lead stuck between the blocks from time to time, which will also cause you to cast over size boolits.

This is why I size all my boolits (even tumble lube ones) for consistency sake. anything that cast grossly oversize, or undersize you tend to feel through the handle while sizing boolits. If it's really small it wont touch the sizer die, and if its really large, well it takes more effort to size, or can even wipe out the TL grooves. These kind of rejects if missed while sorting, simply get tossed back in the remelt pile.

If you don't size TL boolits, you should at least gauge all your loaded ammo, unless you enjoy finding your stoppages while you are shooting, or at the range.

For what you are doing it's really best to set up your OAL using your own pistols barrel, or failing that at least use a case gauge to be sure you won't get any stoppages until you have dialed in your load to your satisfaction.

Maybe these close ups in 45 ACP will help explain things even better.
Click on the images to make them em larger.

117712 117713
117714 117715
117717 117716



- Bullwolf

[Bullwolf]

My responses are in BLUE text


Bullwolf, I load the same TL452-230-2R bullet.
What i'm talking about is the lead edge that would be considered the wad cutter edge on the bullet.

I don't consider it a wad cutter edge, it's more of the boolit shoulder.

Do you leave a little bit of the edge showing?

No, I generally do not with that bullet. If it plunks with a little bit of the edge showing I would still run it however.

Or, seat it flush with the case mouth?

I seat mine somewhat flush inside the case mouth, and taper crimp the brass over it.

Could that edge catch as the round chambers?

Anything could happen, but as long as your 1911, and your ammo is set up correctly it should not. I would not expect it to happen unless your cartridge does not plunk, or you have a problem with your barrel feed ramp angle, barrel set back, or something else set up incorrectly in your gun. It has not happened to me yet in a 1911, even when shooting actual semi wad cutter ammunition.

.45acp, 40 cal, 9mm head spaces on the case mouth. If that wad cutting edge doesnt get seated flush with the case mouth, it could shave a small amount just before the case head spaces.

Most guns have a gentle tapered leade instead of a sharp edge leading into the rifling. Some new gun manufactures don't take the time to do this anymore as they are only intended for use with jacketed ammunition. This can be fixed by using a throating reamer, more information can be learned about throating, from the 1911 Throating sticky link included at the bottom of this post.

If you are seating the boolit flush or deeper, and the case mouth is plunking, you are good to go. If the cartridge does not head space correctly... Shrink your OAL until it does, or pick another boolit design for use in that barrel, or else consider having a throating reamer ran into that barrels chamber.

Over the course of shooting 100 or more rds. it could add up to a lot of lead in the chamber and down the barrel.

If you have a problem with an un-throated barrel shaving lead, or you are shaving a lead ring during the seating/crimping stage, it definitely will add up eventually and = a leaded barrel.




1911 Throating (http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?232061-1911-Throating)

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?232061-1911-Throating



- Bullwolf

[bigjake]

Thanks Bullwolf. I might try the lee TL452-230-TC it looks good.

[Bullwolf]

Bullwolf I don't know if it helped the OP. But it helped me. THANKS Kevin


Thanks Bullwolf. I might try the lee TL452-230-TC it looks good.

You are both most welcome, and I've also been considering picking up a 6 cavity Lee TL452-230-TC.

That very informative Lee TL452-230-TC picture...
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=55626&d=1403145626&thumb=1
Was borrowed from Cast Boolit member rsrocket1 (http://castboolits.gunloads.com/member.php?15415-rsrocket1) .

I like the profile of the Lee TC boolit, and have always had good results with Truncated Cone boolit designs. A mild taper crimp would likely prevent any case lip overhang when seated flush. It should be a very good feeder in fussy guns.

I like the Flat Nose designs as well, and you just can't argue with the accuracy of the HG 68 or it's clones either, even the Lee Bevel Based one.

I've been messing around with this closeout Lee 452-235-RF 230 grain in 45 ACP. I was looking for a 45 boolit with a larger flat meplat that will hopefully feed still in a 1911.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=96556&d=1403161870&thumb=1
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=96557&d=1403161870&thumb=1
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=96558&d=1403161870&thumb=1

The Lee 452-235-RF drops around 220-237 grain boolits depending on alloy used.

My Smith 4506 flat out loved to shoot a commercial copy of the HG68 boolit. I used to load it at work, and it was scary accurate. Needless to day I see some sort of HG68 clone in my near future as well. (Hopefully a Plain Based one)

I just have too many irons in the fire right now.


- Bullwolf