Casting bullets for a .303 enfield

[bubblesdee]

Hi

I am thinking about trying to cast some bullets for a Enfield No1 Mk3 that I have. I have never cast before and was wondering if someone may be able to help me out. I just want to do some target shooting at an affordable rate.

Having read some other posts, I think I have an idea of what I need to do. Please let me know if this sounds O.K. and if you have any advice

1) I need to slug the bore? I don't know how to slug a bore. Can I get a gunsmith to do this for me and measure the slug. They would have the proper caliper.

2) once I know the size, I would purchase a lee mold for .303. I have read that the lee mold will most likely be under sized but it is affordable and I think I read that it can be "resized" to make a bigger bullet. Is this true and if yes, How do I modify the lee mold

3) I would purchase a lee loader for .303. Is it O.K. to use a lee loader kit to load cast bullets.

I know these questions might sound a little silly but I am just getting started on casting my own ammo, please be gentle.

[1johnlb]

If your only wanting to do some shooting you maybe better served by buying your conponent's. If your interested and planning on casting and loading for a long time to come then buy the equipment. Casting and reloading only becomes economical after you have overcome the initial cost of equipment.

1] 303 british! yes you need to slug the bore, you didn't pick the easiest caliber because of the varied bore sizes. A caliper is just another tool essential for a boolit smith, but not necessary for plinking.
2] Save yourself a headach and by the proper mold. Now that you have the most important part of shooting [d barrel] dont cheap out on the other most important thing [d boolit].
3] Lee loader is fine, aslong as your strong with plenty of endurance and only plan on low volume loading. I suggest the Lee classic kit, it comes with most of what a beginner needs, including good literature.

These questions are not silly but entirly relivent. I can only give you 1 definate good advice, READ it's not a overnight hobby. But doable by all.

[GhostHawk]

People for the most part don't really save a lot of money by reloading.

What they do do is end up shooting a lot more, and enjoying the process of casting, sizing, reloading.

Any money they would have saved tends to get invested into better tools along the way.
To me the real advantage is that you can tailor your ammo to suit your needs.

Full house 7.62x54r Mosin Nagant rounds were kicking my shoulder to pieces. Didn't help that the rifles have a steel butt plate for crushing skulls instead of a recoil pad. But a few rounds down range, and I quickly discovered I could tame the big loud Russian beast.

Now I shoot loads running 25-35 grains of powder instead of 45-55. Might not work for you, but it works for me.
As a result I'm shooting more, and expanding my hobby into other area's. Like Casting.

Lee loader should be fine. I suspect you will probably want to start with a mold similar to the Lee .312 185 2r.
If you need to go bigger there are some things you can do that should get you up into the .314 area.

Yell if you have questions.
Read everything you can get your hands on.

Best of luck to you!

[nhrifle]

I would recommend you try some boolits cast from a Lyman 314299 or equivalent. I have found this projectile to work superbly in every Enfield and Mosin I have tried it in. I run mine through a .314 sizing die and seat to the crimp groove.

[curator]

bubblesdee,

Check out Steve Regwell's web site: www.303british.com. Steve is a fellow Canadian and former military armourer. He has a lot of tips for beginning .303 british reloaders including info on cast bullets. It is possible to make quality accurate reloads using the tools you mention but can be frustrating and a lot of effort. Even the Lee hand press is 100X better than the "lee loader." If you are unable to make a modest investment in equipment you may be better off loading those copper-clad thingies until you can accumulate the right stuff.

[OptimusPanda]

I'm with ghosthawk on this one, you dont really save any money. The moment you see how much money youre saving the first thing you do is turn a 100 round range trip into a two or three hundred round range trip. As for SMLE rifles, I know mine slugs at .3135".

[Scharfschuetze]

All good advice above and as noted by others, I haven't saved a dime by reloading; but I do get to shoot a lot more. Of course I've always told the wife that I would save a bundle when buying reloading gear.

Lee Enfield bore sizes can be all over the place. My tightest Lee Enfields use a good Lyman .314299 sized at .313 or .314" to good effect while a Canadian Long Branch No 4 as well as an Australian Lithgow SMLE need the NOE 316299 sized to .316."

Given the discrepancy in Lee Enfield bores, I'd definitely slug the bore before deciding on a mold.

[W.R.Buchanan]

All of the above is good advice, and I will expand on this.

First, it would be prudent for you to learn how to reload ammunition with regular Jacketed Bullets first. A Lee Classic Loader is about the best way there is to do this. It is simple, strait forward, and will teach you the very basics of loading ammunition. Lots of us started this way, including myself. It is pretty imperative that you understand what you are doing with regular bullets first before you try loading Cast Boolits as there are many differences. I would also try to buy some boolits from one of the many Commercial Bullet Casters out there and load them before attempting to make your own.

This approach is all about attacking this complete subject on a shallow gradient so that you progress steadily to a level of competency instead of banging your head against the wall in repeated frustration. [smilie=b:

Then I would suggest branching out into Casting Boolits. They are two entirely different functions and trying to learn all of it at once will be frustrating to say the least. There is a lot to learn about Casting Boolits, and you picked a caliber and gun that are not the easiest ones to start in with.

I would further suggest that after you learn with the Lee Classic Loader that you make the investment in a Lee Hand Press and a set of Lee Rifle Dies. These dies will give you the flexibility to adjust your case preparation techniques to cope with the idiosyncrasies of loading any type of ammunition. This will be a necessary option for loading your caliber.

In the mean time It would be advisable to read everything you can about loading ammunition. A good place to start is to buy a copy of Lyman 49th Edition Loading manual. It has everything you need in it to load virtually any cartridge known to man.

I am currently learning the same caliber, however I have 40 years of reloading and boolit casting experience to draw on. Still I need all the help I can get to insure some form of success when I fire my first rounds downrange. Believe me after 40 years of playing with this stuff I am still a babe in the woods.

You came to the right place for that ! There is more practical knowledge about the art of reloading ammunition here than in all the books ever written on the subject! :mrgreen:

Randy

[1johnlb]

^^^^^^^very good and well said advice^^^^^^^^

[MT Chambers]

I wouldn't buy an "undersized" mold no matter how cheap it was. When settling on a good cast bullet for the .303 you need to take into account how the bore riding portion fits as well, kinda tricky. My .303s have usually shot Lyman's 311041 well if .312" will fit well.

[longbow]

You really don't need to slug the bore. Better to slug the throat and get that diameter then cast/size a thou or so under. You can do a simple impact slugging for this though you do need a decent vernier caliper or better, a micrometer to measure the slug. A gunsmith should be able to provide this service but personally I prefer to buy the tools and do the work myself. What you save on a gunsmith will pay for the tools and then some usually.

Not advocating doing difficult or exacting work you are not qualified for but slugging a barrel or chamber is pretty basic and hard to ruin a gun if you follow reasonable procedures which you will find here with a search.

I have 5 Lee Enfields and all run about 0.314" groove and 0.315"+ throat. I size to 0.315" and they all like that size.

Lee does not make a mould "fat" enough for most run of the mill Lee Enfields. Some may have tighter bores but mine are all "fat" and like fat boolits.

Even my Lyman 314299 did not cast large enough so I wound up buying an NOE 316299. PERFECT!

Yes, a Lee Loader will suffice for loading. I loaded thousands of .45-70 and 12 ga. using nothing but a Lee Loader. Slow but adequate and you can turn out good quality ammunition with one.

A simple press is far easier and faster though and if you start with basic equipment it is not terribly expensive. However, the Lee Loader will work.

My $0.02 anyway.

Welcome and good luck.

Longbow

[Le Loup Solitaire]

There is an excellent article on casting and loading for the SMLE rifles written by Jim Carmichael, former editor of Field and Stream. It is found in the text, "The Art of Bullet Casting"....currently available from Wolfe Publishing. Many other well known names have also written good articles on bullet casting in the same text. Good reading and an outstanding reference book. LLS

[bubblesdee]

Thanks to everyone for the good advice and tips. I should have made it a little clearer about the "affordable" quote. I am not trying to save mega $$$'s. I would just like to go to the range and not have to fire the .303 at $1 a shot, which seems to be the going rate up here.
The .303 belonged to my father and I want to reload it for sentimental reasons as well.

I have a little experience reloading my own rounds. I have successfully made cartridges for a SMLE .303 Enfield 410 conversion by annealing .303 casing and form firing them in the Enfield. I received a lot of help from people on this forum actually.

I guess what I will do is first Slug the Bore/barrel? and see what size bullets I need. That brings me to the first question of the day. Do I slug at the breach or the barrel itself?? I have access to a good digital caliper, I just don't know the proper procedure for slugging a gun and where to actually slug it. I have seen/read some posts about using fishing weights but I would need more detailed instructions, Specifically where to slug it and what to use.

After this is done, I guess I can fine the appropriate mold form Lymans or NOE. Correct?

I am also getting started on building a mussel loader and will be casting my own shot for this so the investment in the "Melting and pouring" equipment will be used for this as well.

Thanks again for all the great advice and I will follow up on your leads. Keep the info coming.

Thanks again

Tom

[1johnlb]

Just out of curiousity , tell us more about your no1 mk3 and it's condition.

[303Guy]

goodsteel has a sticky on doing a pound cast. He doesn't mean pounding with a sledge hammer.:roll: He gives a good description of how to do it. Taking a reading might be a little tricky though. Not so bad for the throat but the bore is tricky because of the five grooves. Anyway, I'm glad you are going to be using your Dad's rifle. Those old Lee Enfield's are capable of good accuracy, even when well worn. Paper patching can take you higher levels should you desire and if accuracy with cast eludes you. Worst case you might need to chop off a little of the muzzle to get to stronger rifling (or counter boring).

FYI This is how I do a pound cast.
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?218414-FYI-This-is-how-I-do-a-pound-cast

I had (now dismantled) a 1898 Lee Enfield with a Martini 303 carbine barrel which was so worn it was nearly 8mm and had very shallow rifling. The barrel was loose on the action due to differences in the threads yet with throat fitting paper patched boolits, it shot very well indeed. The rifling near the muzzle seemed to fade away but being what it was I did not want to chop it. As it turned out I didn't need to. That barrel is now looking for a Martini action.

If you look up my pig gun project thread you'll see what a very badly rusted barrel can do (again with paper patching).

Something I found to be of significance when fitting a boolit to the throat is trailing edge damage in the form of feathering under the rifling lands and around the full circumference. I introduced a small rebate which stopped the the feathering. A gas checked boolit would achieve the same end (but not so much in a two groove). That's of course if the boolit is really fat at the base, which mine were.

I would suggest that unless the chamber is out of alignment with the bore, most Lee Enfield's can be coaxed into shooting quite well if not very well. I have one rifle that produces uneven rifling impressions on the boolits which I am worried about.:(

[krallstar]

My #4- II slugs out at .315 the throat at .318. I went with the NOE mold 316299 202gr (http://noebulletmolds.com/NV/product_info.php?cPath=31&products_id=387&osCsid=70mm9jg82rcufcoprskut0tiv0) All dressed with lube and gc weighs 220gr i size to.316

[blackthorn]

Maybe this will help:-Buy some lead fishing weights from Walmart, or any otherpure lead or as close to pure as you can get.-Throw a few weights in a ladle, put over a fire (If youare casting you should have a ladle).-Pour lead into a used brass casing. Use a fired/non-sized pieces brass since it’sexpanded from firing. This will make anice round elongated slug. The casingshould be from the caliber being slugged.-Use a kinetic bullet puller and smack the slug out afterit cools (you should have one if you reload).-Lube the ‘slug’.-Slugs will be sloped on one end, stick that end intobarrel. Clean and lube the barrel beforeyou start.-Use some sort of rod to push through. While the choice of ‘rod’ material is up toyou, wood is not the best choice. It isbetter to use a metal rod and wrap the end and one or two other places withelectrical tape and put a small piece of brass case over the tape on theend. Use enough tape so the piece ofbrass fits on snug. The brass needs tobe small enough to fit easily through the barrel, it should just fall rightthrough.-Lightly tap with whatever you have handy. Hammer, mallet, your kinetic bullet puller,etc. There should be some smallresistance at the beginning, but once it gets past the muzzle it only takeslight taps to finish pushing through.-Use a micrometer to measure. Perhaps more relevant than barrel diameter is the maximumsize your chamber throat (if present) will accept in your rifle, and cylinderthroat diameter in revolvers. This measurementis worth knowing even more so than barrel diameter There are more elaborate methods, but this way is quick, easy,and you get the overall diameter of the barrel.

[gwpercle]

Go to the 303british website, instructions on how to slug and measure, helpful to know your bore size. I did my 1943 BSA no4 MKI, expecting the worse, but it measured .311...surprised!!!
The Lee boolit and a .313 bullet sizing die will be just fine. I got lucky. I gave up trying to find that Lyman mould , they sell for big $$$ and were unobtainable.
Don't get too hung up on all the details and fine points of reloading. Get your Classic Reloading Kit and that lee mould, and start reloading , shoot them unsized to start, follow the Lee loader directions and go for it.
My first loading experience was a Lee Classic Loader. Load safe and have fun.
Gary

[bubblesdee]

I finally got around to slugging the bore of my 303. Here are the measurements I got.

the bore measured at .301. (From low point to low point on the slug) The measurements of the grooves on the slug are .312 (from high point to high point on the slug)

so, what size cast bullet should I be using for this gun. I have access to a Saeco #305 mould which is supported to drop them at .311. Would these be o.k. For this rifle?

the owner of the mould can also cast, size and lube some bullets out of this mould for me before I buy the actual mould. What dimension should I request he size them to for my rifle?

thanks again

[whisler]

From things read here, you will need at least .312+; .311 will be too small. You need groove size minimum up to +.002 (.314).