PTG: never again

[Forrest r]

Figured I'd give people a heads up, haven't dealt with a company this bad in years. Tried to order a custom 30cal throater (.310 with 1/2* on each side for a 1* total taper). Also ordered a handle to go with the throating reamer. And got a conformation order # the next day (8-21-14) via e-mail.

I opened the e-mail a couple of days later & saw the order was just for a throater/no handle so I called them (8-28-14) and asked them to update my order to include a t-handle and please send me an e-mail with the updated order & pricing. Never received an e-mail so I called them (9-15-14) to see if they got my updated order & if they had a timeline on when the custom throater might get started. The lady that answered the phone had no idea what I ordered (every time I called I gave them my order confirmation #/the # that they sent me). So we went thru the what's your name? What did you order? All over again & when I asked if they might have a timeline on when they might start on the reamer (1 week/1 month/1 year?) All's the lady could say is "Ya, we probable should give you an idea when we might start the throater". "Well, I'm really not sure!". So I said " Could you please find out & e-mail me with an update.

Another week goes by & no e-mail, nothing. I call them up Today (9-22-14), give them the order # they sent me & tried to cancel my order. At 1st I got the what's your name? What did you order? And the usual " Those throaters aren't custom order, we have them on the shelf." When I told them there's really isn't any point in discussing this any further I just want to cancel my order & that they:
1. Never had a clue every time I called as to what I actually ordered.
2. Could never find my order slip.
3. Could never verify or tell me anything about my order (what I actually ordered/cost).
They put someone else on the phone & she started yelling @ me when I told her I was canceling my order and why. When I told her I was contacting my credit card co to see if there was anything from ptg billed on it I would dispute it, she really went ballistic. And said that the throater had already been started. I told her interesting, the person I just spoke with 2 minutes ago never had a clue as to what I ordered & couldn't find anything that ever stated I ever placed an order with you & that they have 30cal throaters on the shelf and that there's no need to wait for 1 to be made. Then I got cussed out sum more when I told her I didn't care what they were doing & that I was calling my credit card co & disputing anything from ptg that was on it. That got more cussing & a you'll never be able to order anything from ptg ever again!!!!!

Got a big laugh out of that 1 & told her to kiss my irish a$$. Like I'd ever try to order anything from them again.

I haven't seen a company ran that bad in years!!!! Couldn't tell you what your order was, how much it was, if the work was ever done or if it ever could be done. Like I said, I'll never order from ptg again!!!!

In contrast, I called Manson tooling. The lady I talked to asked me to call back in a couple of hours & talk to David directly, They like to do that with custom orders. So I called back and talked to David & place an order with him in less than 2 minutes, (same thing I tried to order from ptg). He simply wrote down what I asked for & told me the price and said I'd have my custom throater in 28 days.

[cbrick]

Never heard of PTG, do they have a web site?

Rick

[MBTcustom]

Right here:
https://shop.pacifictoolandgauge.com/
I use PTG exclusively and have had no trouble like this so far. Had a miscommunication once but they got it cleared up quickly. I like their products, and depend on them for precise tools that cut like butter. Just me.

Every precision rifle I have posted on this forum was reamed with one of their reamers. 1/2MOA at 1000 yards? Yeah, the chamber matters. I'll stick with them for a while yet, but will take your experience under advisement.
Thanks for watching our backs though.

[tomme boy]

It seems to be a common story I have heard on the web in the last couple of months. Something must be happening. Like I said. This is the 4th or 5th time I have heard something like this lately.

[Love Life]

PTG is busy destroying their own name. I am waiting on an action that is overdue due to PTG's screw up.

There are real companies being hurt by PTG's growing pains and I see more and more people swearing off of them and going to other manufacturers.

I won't order another thing from PTG nor do I recommend them when the subject comes up.

Tim built my rifle with a PTG reamer, so when they pull their heads out of their butt's they can do decent work. However, Tim got my reamer last summer which is before PTG went to ****.

DO some looking around and you'll see the large number of people and business having issues with PTG.

[Love Life]

It seems to be a common story I have heard on the web in the last couple of months. Something must be happening. Like I said. This is the 4th or 5th time I have heard something like this lately.

They are a victim of success. They are screwing things up while they expand and are losing business because of it.

Poor customer service and ditzy reps on the phone is par for the course.

[M-Tecs]

PTG has always been great to deal with. Like Goodsteel I use PTG exclusively. Use them for some items at work also. I have ordered a couple hundred items total but nothing within the last 6 months. Dave Kiff is the owner - very pleasant and incredibly knowledgeable . If you are having issues talk to him directly.

I manage a machine shop and I fully inspect every reamer for tolerance. I have yet had to send one back. I cannot say that for other reamer makers. I own about 120 reamer of various manufactures (PTG, Clymer, Manson, Hugh Henriksen, Hartford & JGS) . I like PTG best.

I switched to PTG carbide with USR oil groove bushing exclusively.

[DrCaveman]

Amazing, the differences in experiences with this company. Kind of like people's exerience with various moulds, alloys, casting temps, OAL, powders... YMMV

They do have an impressive catalog

I like that they are in Oregon, good to see some precision tooling coming from my state, we could use the revenue. I grew up in southern oregon, and local legend has it that 'white city' got its name from the color of the 'powder' of choice in the area. Not gunpowder, and not from columbia. A quickly growing company often has to hire help quickly, without as much discrimination as they may prefer.

Im far from condemning the whole area though, plenty of great people. Just give em a little time, ill bet they straighten up.

[Forrest r]

PTG has always been great to deal with. Like Goodsteel I use PTG exclusively. Use them for some items at work also. I have ordered a couple hundred items total but nothing within the last 6 months. Dave Kiff is the owner - very pleasant and incredibly knowledgeable . If you are having issues talk to him directly.

I did forward this thread on to Dave's personal e-mail so hopefully we will get a response from Dave.

I really don't care what they think, do or say. Put up with their run-around bs for a month and simply wanted my money back. I understand there's a 15% restock fee, big deal. I'll gladly pay it just to be rid of them. But when they start cussing me & tell me I'm not getting $hit back, they are taking it to another level. Heck what good is a throating tool without a t-handle? Those things are kind of hard to turn with my fingers & trying to use the throater on bbl'd actions without a t-handle makes it even harder. Only tried 3 times to order one of those with the throater.

Called Manson today & couldn't be happier!!! No run-around/no bs. Just strait talk (heck actually talked to them 3 different times and didn't get anyone swearing at me), the order got placed, got a total for what I ordered and even got a time line for a delivery date. I've used clymer, ptg & manson tooling in the past & there isn't a doubt in my mind that manson's tooling can and will stand up to the best of them and not only compete with them but excel.

If anyone likes ptg, then by all means keep using them. I'm just letting people know what happened. There's no place for things like this in any business atmosphere and no one should be treated this way by any business. My grand father owned his own business, my father owned his own business & I own my own business. My grand father & father were extremely successful and I've been able to semi-retire (19 years ago @ age 36). Know one in my family got where they're at by not taking orders, giving people the run around and cussing people out when they've had enough & just want to wash their hands of the whole mess that was created by means that were beyond their controll.

[lightman]

I hope they get their act together. I have a few PTG reamers and liked the the fact that I could call and talk to Dave, the owner. A friend got the same runaround that is described above and went with another company. Its a real shame, I hope it works out.

[fouronesix]

Forrest r,
Agreed. Some think it is a recent thing having to do with recent expansion. But it's been going on for a little longer than that-- at least 3-4 years. Three of us in my area have had similar things happen with PTG. Without going into detail, the scenarios were similar to yours. But in each case it cost money to undo and correct. My "PTG never again" began about 3 years ago. More power to those who've had good luck with them.

[MBTcustom]

Dave Kiff can sure carry on a conversation about throat angles for high performance cast lead boolits. Hammer out a design, and by George, you get what was discussed.
I dont need to hone PTG reamers. They come perfect right out of the box.
As far as I know, PTG is the only reamer company that threads the back of their reamers, and much of my system depends on that feature.
PTG reamers run out less than .0002 inches and are brightly ground, not (er um) sandblasted? This is important to me, as I check the runout of the chamber I just cut by putting a .00005 test indicator on the shank after the chamber has been cut and cleaned to check concentricity of the chamber with the barrel
Again and again, I have handed them $150 bucks or so, and they have sold me a fixture that cut hours and hours off my production time and will make me ten times that before its all done.

Yeah the receptionist can be a little (how did you put it?) Ditsy? but in a rather charming way. I confess, I never insulted her or threatened her livelihood with a lawsuit to see what would happen, but now I don't have to wonder anymore. So far, I treat them with respect, and that's what I get in return.
There are times where I have dropped the ball and screwed up. My actions and the things I said were nothing short of "Ditsy" (case in point, one time I was talking to a guy about a precision rifle build of the high end variety, and he asked me what I recommend as the best in a fiberglass stock. I was thinking McMillan but I said "Bell and Carlson" LOL!) I sure am glad that my words weren't smeared in my face followed by a promise never to do business with me again.
In all of life, grace is a fine character trait to nurture, and those who bank on it seem to get further than those who don't.

Just a few months ago, I got a reamer from PTG that arrived with a pilot bushing that was too big for the barrel I was using it on. Didn't discover the issue till the last minute and I was seriously behind in a build. I called them up and told them that they sent me the wrong dam reamer and they cost me hundreds! They suck and I'll never do business with them again! In fact, I'm calling a lawyer!
No I didn't say that.
I told them that I was in a real bind and was behind on a build and I needed some pilots for this reamer, and I asked if there was anything they could do for me in a hurry? They asked me what size I wanted, I told them I trust Dave Kiff to that, as the fit of the bushing needs to be just right (not too loose, and not too tight) and he had never steered me wrong before.
I was told to please hold and the next person I was talking to was Dave. He asked what size my bore diameter was, I told him, and he said either one or the other of two sizes would be the sweet spot. I told him I wanted both of them please, and could he do anything for me on the time schedule?
He said "absolutely I'll get them moving right away" even though one of them was a custom.
I was transferred back to the receptionist, she billed me, and 6 days later I had my pilots and crisis was averted.

That's one of my experiences.

[AZ-JIM]

Wow, I hope they get it worked out as well. I bought a custom reamer and a chamber "go" guage from them last year. My experience was very pleasant, I was put directly on the phone with Dave Kiff and he was more than happy to help me get exactly what I wanted. He was not in a hurry to get me off the phone and he definatley knows his stuff. From order to delivery for a reamer that was not on the shelf, I had both of my items in less than 3 weeks. I thought that was pretty good. I called once to check on it they knew exactly where it was and when it would be done, I told them it takes how long it takes I just want it right and I can accept late in trade for right.

It must be close to being right, so far just beyond barrel breakin and minimal load development it shoots less than 1/4 moa @ 200yards


az-jim

[Forrest r]

Yeah the receptionist can be a little (how did you put it?) Ditsy? but in a rather charming way. I confess, I never insulted her or threatened her livelihood with a lawsuit to see what would happen, but now I don't have to wonder anymore. So far, I treat them with respect, and that's what I get in return.

I have no idea where that came from?????

I never insulted anyone, threatened anyone with a lawsuit or anyone's livelihood. I find it interesting that someone would think that I would sue someone over a $75 bill (the order should of been over $100). Heck, most molds I buy are over $75, when me & the misses go out to dinner or out for the evening $75 for the night is a cheap date.

This whole thing had nothing to do with $$$$$ until I had enough of being jerked around & asked to cancel my order. I looked on line at their website before I placed an order with them & read their conformation order (even though they couldn't, that's the # I gave them every time I called to talk to them/bottom of page in bold) and understood that there would be a 15% fee for all canceled orders. Instead of saying ok and canceling my order & charging me the 15% fee I got cussed at repeatedly.

Jerked around ='s:
Called 8-20 placed an order & got a order conformation order with their order # on 8-21. The order was wrong, no t-handle.
Called 8-28 talked to gentleman/gave him the order # they sent me (he had no idea & asked my name and what I ordered) & asked if order could be updated to include t-handle and new total (never yelled/kicked/screamed/insulted/complained). Was told ok my order would be updated & new total sent (NEVER HAPPENED!!!)
Called 9-15 talked to lady, she didn't know what I meant when I gave her my order # and asked about it being updated. Got the what's your name, what did you order & there on the shelve. I (never yelled/kicked/screamed/insulted/complained), just tried to get my order strait for the 3rd time along with ordering a t-handle & get a total. And god forbid (should of known better/ they couldn't get the original order right after 3 tries) and made the mistake of asking when they might start on the order. All I got was bs and the hung up on.
9-22 I checked my e-mail (like there would be an order update there/duhhh!!!) so I called them & wanted to simply cancel my order (never yelled/kicked/screamed/insulted/complained). The 1st lady did the what's your name, what did you order, it's on the shelve yada/yada/yada & then said please hold. A second lady got on & I told her I wanted to cancel my order (never yelled/kicked/screamed/insulted/complained) and got the what's your name, what did you order, it's on the shelve yada/yada/yada.

At that point I told the girl there was no point in talking about my order any more & if they wouldn't cancel it I would simply call the credit card co and dispute the charge. I got the wait a minute & another girl got on the phone & all hell broke loose!!! I was told that I couldn't cancel & that my order was started a week ago. All's I said was" That's interesting, the girl I talked to 2 minutes ago couldn't even tell me what I ordered." And it got real bad from there!!!

If you find people swearing at you charming, great!!!! I don't.

A lawsuit over $75??? Not hardly, it's cheaper/quicker/easier to simply pay the 15% ($11.25) and have their foul mouth'd bs'ing reps out of my life. Heck, it's nothing to drop $75+ gambling down at the legion or vfw in a couple of hours.

Insulting???? The only people that were insulting was PTG. Use some common sense!!! If I was insulting to them why would they even take my order to begin with?

Threaten someone's livelihood? You got to be kidding me!!! I hope they hire 30 people just like the one that cussed me out. Or at least I hope they keep her there for decades until she retires. I'm sure there's 1000's of people out there that would love to have similar experiences.

You want to keep dealing with them, great!!! By all means do so, I never once in this thread told anyone not to. I have however stated that me/myself/& I would never deal with them again and let every one know what happened. And this is actually a 2nd post stating "if you want to keep using them than by all means do so".

Just do me a favor & don't be grabbing at straws with such things that never happened like insulting or law suits or livelihood. None of those things makes any since.
If you insult people you don't get to place an order
Only a fool would spend $135 (filing fee) and spend a minimum of 4 days in the courtroom/clerk of courts/with collection agencies trying to collect $75 minus the 15% ($11.25) restock fee.
A far as threatening any ones job, not hardly. I could care less how pgt hires/fires/employ's and at this point I hope they keep the rep that cussed me out there forever so everyone can have a charming experence.

[Forrest r]

At that point I told the girl there was no point in talking about my order any more & if they wouldn't cancel it I would simply call the credit card co and dispute the charge. I got the wait a minute & another girl got on the phone & all hell broke loose!!! I was told that I couldn't cancel & that my order was started a week ago. All's I said was" That's interesting, the girl I talked to 2 minutes ago couldn't even tell me what I ordered." And it got real bad from there!!!


And actually the way it went down was that I could see the conversation was going know where (with them cussing at me) and simply told her I'd let the credit card co handle it and hung up. She called me back (have the phone records to prove it) and started screaming way louder than before & the cussing got real bad. THAT"S WHEN I TOLD PTG TO KISS MY IRISH A$$ AND HUNG UP AGAIN!!!!

I don't want to straiten anything out, I don't want to talk to anyone from ptg anymore, don't want anything to do with them. I tried for a month to place an order with them & got nothing but the run around, lied to & cussed at. From this point on I'll deal with the credit card co.

[StrawHat]

I run my own company and am constantly asked to expand to provide my service to more people. I remind folks "Bigger doesn't always mean better".

[MBTcustom]

Forrest r, I apologize that you took offense so easily to my colorful exaggeration.

Its strange that we have such different opinions of the same people. I was just pointing out that how you come across might have something to do with what you get back.
If you are entitled to bash PTG on a public forum, then others have the freedom to state the opposite opinion if they are of a mind to which I am.
Im not looking to change your mind about them, and if I experience anything close to what you have, I might be inclined to agree with you, but for the moment, nothing could be further from the truth. I think you got somebody who was having a bad day, and things escalated.
It's a shame this happened to you regardless.
You might contact the BBB.

[tomme boy]

The BBB is worthless. All they can do is put a file of a bad review from a customer. The way I feel is they actually deserve the bad press, then let them have it. Like I said earlier, this is not the first I have heard of the exact same thing about how you were treated. And the same thing about the ladies on the phone. It is a common theme.

[Love Life]

Go ask about PTG on the Sniper's Hide. It'll be an enlightening conversation.

[M-Tecs]

Went to Snipers Hide and searched for Pacific Tool and Gauge, Pacific Tool & Gauge, PTG problems, PTG issues and read a fair amount of the gunsmith forum. Only comments on PTG have been very postive. Do you a a specific link?

After some more reading I did find this one. http://forum.snipershide.com/sniper-hide-gunsmithing/266907-ptg-change-order-fee.html

[MBTcustom]

Just called PTG and checked on my fixture they are building. Talked to Stephane, and braced myself for the barrage of insults and profanity.
Surprisingly, She told me where we are at on the fixture with a very pleasant tone of voice.
Not to be taken in by such an obvious front, I asked how've things been for them, and again, to my complete shock she replied that everything is wonderful.
I told her "that's great Stephane, y'all have a great day ok?" To which she replied "yes sir, you do the same! Thanks for calling!"
I hung up and the feeling of relief washed over me. That was close!!!!

Truly, a horrible experience. Who are these people?!?!?

(Sorry, I tried to resist but just couldn't.) The people I work with are more than just a place to buy my shiny junk, they are people I talk to on a regular basis and work through problems with. All of us are under stress, and none of us are getting rich. We depend on each other. Just doesn't make sense.

[LynC2]

Your problems must be due to their expansion. I've ordered several reamers from PTG in the past which included some customs and they were exactly what I requested with no issues. Heck I've got one on order from them right now. I agree, Dave Kiff definitely knows how to make a good reamer.
While I'm handing out kudo's I say Dave Manson does great work also. I spoke with him numerous times while he was at Clymer before he struck out on his own. First rate work in my opinion and I think Nobade gets his reamers from Manson also.

[Love Life]

Nevermind.

[dragon813gt]

Whoops, appears it was already cleaned up.