Reading a lot here. Why and how again am I separating my cases(?) Factors?

[Tallbald]

I understand from a lot of reading on this forum that mixed cases vary in 1) weight, 2) volume, nickel or plain brass. Can't find if there's a difference issue of contour inside, flash hole diameter, or other things that might(?)make a difference. Most of the existing threads on things I have to ask seem geared toward folks who have been casting and loading a while. I try to locate simple basic information at this point for my feeble mind, and am organizing my thoughts.
I have mixed .38 Special, .357 and .44 Magnum cases from Aguilla, Remington, WW, CCI, Western, Hornady, Smith and Wesson and some unmarked stuff with a star (Starline?). Once I've separated by brand, where do I need to focus? Weight? Do I simply use same weight cases on an experimental load? Go by brand? I know the need for consistency, but what is acceptable variance? I'm not a bench rest shooter, but I'd prefer to do it right. But then again I wish to not strain at a gnat if it isn't needed. Really enjoying the forum and thank you all. Don

[dragon813gt]

For those cartridges I don't sort by brand. I just trim them all to the same length and load them up. I know others will say different but I've found no discernible difference at the distances I shoot at. Now bottle neck rifle cartridges are a different matter.

[petroid]

Unless you are shooting rifle matches where sub MOA is the the entry fee, I see no reason to sort cases unless there are certain brands of cases that give loading/chambering problems.

[500MAG]

I don't sort cases. Heck, the only pistol cases I trim are 500 s&w and 50 AE, anything smaller doesn't get trimmed.

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

I sort pistol brass by headstamp for a couple reasons and neither have much to do with discernible accuracy for short range pistol shooting and mostly to do with my slight OCD.

One is, uniformity when I'm loading a batch on a turret press. Different brand brass has a different 'feel' when seating primers as well as Sizing as well as Seating a boolit. So, when I load all the same headstamp brass in one batch, the feel is similar for each respective function, making it easier to 'feel' a problem...and stop before I crush a case or cause a larger problem...and sometimes I can 'feel' a split case, allowing me to cull it out early and no allow it to get to the range.



Another reason is for batch purposes. I like to keep individual batches separate, maybe the load is different, maybe the alloy is different, a headstamp is something easy to identify a batch from another batch. I document all the details from every batch I load. OK, some will say, just keep them in separate boxes. Let's say you go to the range and shoot up a few different loads or batches...you perceive no problems, but when you get back home and clean/ sort the brass from the one big bag of brass you pickup off the ground, then you notice an issue like with certain pieces...If you batch load with my method, you could track the issue to a certain batch quite easily.

[35remington]

I sort my cases by headstamp........IF sorting by headstamp is proven to avoid great differences in velocity caused by varying case capacity.

Just yesterday I was handloading and shooting on the range using my I frame 32 Regulation Police. In my stash are cases by Lapua, Sako, WW, Federal, Remington and Geco. Using the same light charge of Titegroup, velocities were varying from 600 to 750 fps using the same deeply seated RCBS 98 grain wadcutter bullet when mixed cases were employed.

That's why I sort by headstamp. If I don't get variations like that, for general shooting and plinking I load 'em all as a batch.....like with 45 ACP. I suppose for match shooting, though, my 45's would all share headstamps. My 32 Long cases vary a lot, so that's when headstamp sorting pays off.

[tazman]

Unless you are a champion grade pistol shooter loading match ammo for championship competition, there is no need to sort pistol cases. You won't be able to tell the difference in accuracy.
If you are pushing for maximum velocity in magnum calibers you may want to sort by brand as you have because of pressure difference due to different case internal dimensions.
For rifle there is some reason to be more discerning, but most pistol shooters, myself included, can't tell the difference between match ammo and loaded rejects.
For the 38 special, you may want to separate for wadcutter brass. These are the cases designed for use with full wadcutters. Usually they have 2 canelures on the sides. The brass is thinner to a greater depth inside the case in order to allow the wadcutter to be fully seated without swaging the base of the boolit. Basically they make loading full wadcutters easier.

[Tallbald]

Excellent and thank you all. I believe that for me for now, simple trim to length would be sufficient. And my cases are all from on factory loading maybe followed by no more than 3 moderate or light loads from 35 years ago. No wad cutters are planned. SWC, RN or flat nose will be it. Don

[TXGunNut]

When I was shooting PPC competition I stayed with one batch of brass all year, it was all the same headstamp and most years it was from the same lot. I could feel the difference when loading if a stray piece of brass got mixed in but I doubt my revolvers could tell. For my 45acp's I sort by primer size and call it good, my 45's could care less if they're fed Starline or Federal or anything in between. I treat my high performance 45 Colt hunting loads like rifle loads; stick with one headstamp, one lot of brass.
So I think the correct answer depends on your expectations. For comp loads you may not be able to tell the difference on the target but you will shoot better if you know you did everything reasonably possible to make your ammo as accurate as you could make it. Same with hunting ammo. For plinking ammo or some shooting disciplines where speed is more important than accuracy the focus is more on reliablity so headstamp is a minor concern.

[Rugerman]

No sorting here, but after reading this I may rethink that.

[Scharfschuetze]

Your shooting goal or activity will probably determine how much attention you pay to the details of your ammo and cases. No need to get wrapped around the axle if you're just shooting cans or reactive targets. For serious match shooting or hunting I certainly pay attention to the details and as the old saying goes: The devil's in the details.

In my LE days shooting the PPC course as a High Master, I, like TXGunNut in his post above, used only the same lot and make cases for all of my shooting: matches or practice. The 10 ring at 50 yards will tell you in a minute whether your ammo is up to the task or isn't. For ammo that is crimped, case length has an effect on how much crimp is applied and thus bullet pull on firing. This is another little detail that will cause some dispersion at the longer ranges, but is not too important for plinking or shorter ranges. Still, for 50 yard or further shooting as well as for vermine, rabbits and prairie dogs, it gets my attention. Revolvers are surprisingly accurate way past 100 yards when fed good ammo.

For National Match high power rifle shooting, I again use only the same make and lot brass for the entire course of fire if not required to shoot issue ammo (as in military matches or CMP matches). Many NM courses will fire 88 rounds to 100 rounds in a day depending on the match schedule. A weekend match then means you'll need 188 rounds (with no alibi stage) and you'll want your zero to remain the SAME for both days of shooting. From 200 through 500 yards, my cases are generally not prepped, but for 600 through 1,000 yards my cases are segregated and prepped for maximum uniformity. When shooting in the top classes, a few extra X ring hits will often spell the difference between first, second and third places.

I think the 9mm Parabellum is particularly susceptible to different case weights and bullet pull due to its small volume and high pressure. My Browning Hi-Power will shoot sub 2 inch 10 shot cast boolit groups with boring regularity at 25 yards with the same lot and manufacture of cases; but, if I shoot mixed case plinking ammo, it will quickly open up to over three inches even when the remaining components are the same. My chronograph shows a much higher extreme spread in velocities for mixed case loads v. same case loads.

The bottom line? Most shooters won't need to refine their ammo to the nth degree, but having faith in your ammo for its intended purpose is a great boost to your confidence.

[leadman]

I will sort by headstamp when developing a load. If the load is middle of the road as far as pressure/velocity I will load mixed headstamps.
If full power like for hunting these are all the same headstamp and maybe also by case weight.
There can be a large spread in velocity with some mixed headstamps and this may reflect on the grouping. I like to know if it my shooting or a different factor when testing new loads. Might be some OCD also in there.
As mentioned above the smaller cases like the 32 can very a great deal in velocity. Many of the older 32 caliber guns are on the weak side so it pays to sort by headstamp and stay on the safe side. The larger caliber due not suffer as badly from this.

[bobthenailer]

I sort cases by at least brand and sometimes by lot number. i use each brand of brass in that caliber for a different load or sometimes for a particular firearm . not as much trimming with autos except 9mm i size and sort by length, no trimming.

I first size and then check / trim to the correct length. after about 5 or sometimes less reloads.

What i go by is get the best & most accurate guns avaliable , make the most accurate ammo you can , and the rest is up to your shooting ablity , which is the hardest of the three to get right

When i shoot its almost always for honeing my shooting skills, for precision or speed shooting, im always trying to better myself or at least maintain my shooting skill level.

[Horace]

Was shooting a glock in 9mm that the primer would fall out after reloading, started separating by head stamps and found the brass was all made in china. It started in the early 90`s and I continue to separate head stamps.

Horace

[44man]

Lot numbers are a good idea as is brand. The best way to sort is to shoot. Sort out any brass that does not hit the same place. If you hit 1" high with one, keep it out and if any more hit 1" high, keep them together. Soon you will have batches that have the same POI.
Sometimes different brands will hit the same place and you can find a lot of variation even with the same lot.

[44man]

keeping them separate is a problem so you need to tumble and load trying to keep them away from other cases.

[dudel]

I sort them by headstamp; not because I'm looking for accuracy (although it can't hurt), but because I can tell a difference in cases with I size, prime, flare and seat. Having them all the same makes the potential problems stand out. If all of a sudden I find a primer that seats with much less effort, I probably have a primer pocket that got stretched.

[Shiloh]

Rifle cases are sorted by headstamp.
There is a noticeable difference. If you are not sorting, the variances will be demonstrated the most at long range.

Shiloh

[Cherokee]

I separate by headstamp for the reasons already stated in several posts. I load by lot, keep good records and there is frequently a difference in my experience, especially 9mm.

[gray wolf]

Rifle cases get my utmost attention, but for pistol shooting I don't do anything but trim to length--this gives me a uniform crimp. I LIKE THE CRIMP IN THE SAME PLACE.

These targets were shot with all mixed brass, all loads were scale weighed,
Some different powders and two different bullets. 25 yards off a bag,
At least 6 shots on each target with a 44 Mag SRH

If I have an obvious problem with a round and I don't call the shot as bad then I might chuck the case. I allow up to 60 or 70 FPS ES for pistol rounds.

When shooting off hand you have to be a darn good shot in order to blame the ammo or a piece of brass. So for me it helps to prove everything out at the bench, This way when I miss I can't blame the ammo or the pistol.

I have posted this picture before so I hope is doesn't tire anyone to look at it.
I think the bottom line is: we all do what we think is correct, and some don't know what is correct and that is why we ask questions and also why we are here at cast bullets.

I say start with the basics and when you can say:
hey! I am a darn good shot and I should not have missed those shots ---
Then start looking for the reasons.

We all ( most ) of us seem to settle into our comfort zones and wind up doing what we feel comfortable with. For me I have to be happy with what I settle with.

Then again I do some things that are not so comfortable like casting with a snow ground cover.

[bangerjim]

I sort only rifle cases. I load and shoot anything/everything I have in pistols, mainly 38SP and 45LC. Works very well for me.......no time be sorting large volumes of all that tiny brass. Head stamp or no.

Just keep a sharp eye out for damage brass!

banger

[Four-Sixty]

I often wonder how much does brass work hardens after each firing. I suspect it does enough to make sorting worth while (even on pistol loads), if you're a good enough shot... which I am not.

[10mmShooter]

....if shooting at 25m or less.... I don't sort by headstamp...but for rounds that I will be roll crimping, I do check the case length periodically other wise your roll crimps will be inconsistent do to varying case length. If working up a new load, I will use like headstamps until I'm statisfied with the load.

PS my target loads in .38 special .357 and even .44 are very mild at 1000 fps, these don't even need to a crimp at all really just enough to remove the flair of the mouth, proper neck tension retains the bullet, also I tend to stick with fast pistol powders, avoiding the need for heavy crimping to help the burn. I do roll crimp for my lever actions because of tube mags,

['74 sharps]

Unless you are shooting a bench rest rifle for bugholes in competition, there will be no accuracy difference with mixing brass. Brass and nickel cases are fine mixed.

[44man]

I made a strange test a few times since everyone was worried about shooting brass too much. Starting with 50 brand new cases for my .44 SBH, scoped at 50 yards from bags, I counted at least 7 different points of impact and separate groups. After all 50 were shot, I had a very large pattern.
My conclusion is, new brass has the widest variation in case tension. As I have been shooting this brass, groups have shrunk and my best group was 1-5/16" at 200 yards with brass fired over 40X.
This batch is still from about 1983 and still going.
With the revolvers, the second, third and fourth loadings + will be more accurate then the first. I never shot a match with new brass after seeing this.
Most shots out have proven to have different case tension by measuring the pressure needed to seat a boolit. I can measure with a tool I made for the press handles but if you feel a boolit go in easier then the last, set it aside, it will sure be out.

[tazman]

That interesting. So then as brass gets used it becomes more consistent until it reaches a certain point then stays there.
Does your brass get harder to push the boolits into over time or easier?

[MT Chambers]

I sort cases, esp. for BP loads where you would have to change loads to match the diff. brass, for top accuracy in any gun, or if you're flirting with max. loads.

[WallyM3]

For 38 Special: separate wad cutter brass from everything else.

[44man]

That interesting. So then as brass gets used it becomes more consistent until it reaches a certain point then stays there.
Does your brass get harder to push the boolits into over time or easier?
Never gets harder to seat, measurements just get more even. If I measure new brass I can have 10 separate piles on the bench, Old brass will reduce that to 3 or so and the gauge has never gone over what a new case can have.

[Fluxed]

Your shooting goal or activity will probably determine how much attention you pay to the details of your ammo and cases. No need to get wrapped around the axle if you're just shooting cans or reactive targets. For serious match shooting or hunting I certainly pay attention to the details and as the old saying goes: The devil's in the details.

In my LE days shooting the PPC course as a High Master, I, like TXGunNut in his post above, used only the same lot and make cases for all of my shooting: matches or practice. The 10 ring at 50 yards will tell you in a minute whether your ammo is up to the task or isn't. For ammo that is crimped, case length has an effect on how much crimp is applied and thus bullet pull on firing. This is another little detail that will cause some dispersion at the longer ranges, but is not too important for plinking or shorter ranges. Still, for 50 yard or further shooting as well as for vermine, rabbits and prairie dogs, it gets my attention. Revolvers are surprisingly accurate way past 100 yards when fed good ammo.

For National Match high power rifle shooting, I again use only the same make and lot brass for the entire course of fire if not required to shoot issue ammo (as in military matches or CMP matches). Many NM courses will fire 88 rounds to 100 rounds in a day depending on the match schedule. A weekend match then means you'll need 188 rounds (with no alibi stage) and you'll want your zero to remain the SAME for both days of shooting. From 200 through 500 yards, my cases are generally not prepped, but for 600 through 1,000 yards my cases are segregated and prepped for maximum uniformity. When shooting in the top classes, a few extra X ring hits will often spell the difference between first, second and third places.

I think the 9mm Parabellum is particularly susceptible to different case weights and bullet pull due to its small volume and high pressure. My Browning Hi-Power will shoot sub 2 inch 10 shot cast boolit groups with boring regularity at 25 yards with the same lot and manufacture of cases; but, if I shoot mixed case plinking ammo, it will quickly open up to over three inches even when the remaining components are the same. My chronograph shows a much higher extreme spread in velocities for mixed case loads v. same case loads.

The bottom line? Most shooters won't need to refine their ammo to the nth degree, but having faith in your ammo for its intended purpose is a great boost to your confidence.

^^ whole lot of truth quoted above ^^