Loading technique for cast boolits in a 30-30?

[centershot]

I've been experimenting with cast boolits in my Marlin 336 30-30. For a gallery load, 5.0 gr of Bullseye with a 311041 plain base (from a Lee 6 cavity Group Buy mold) shoots into one jagged hole at 25 yards. I haven't found a "hunting load" yet; I'm using Lyman 311041 cast from 50-50 WW and pure with 2% tin, weighs 178 gr lubed with Javelina (beeswax & Alox) and gaschecked. I read awhile back that you want to open the neck ID so that the case neck doesn't swage the boolit undersize when you load it. I FL size, then use the .311" expander ball from my 7.62 x 54R die set to open the neck. I then flare the neck with a Lee flaring tool. The 311041 casts .3095", I lube and seat the gascheck in a Lyman 450 with a .311" die. Am I on the right track here, or am I taking an extra needless step here? My goal is to launch this boolit at 1800-2000 fps and hopefully take a deer with it this season. Thanks for your input!

[petroid]

Measure the inside of the case beck after sizing but before flaring. You want 2-3 thou of neck tension on your bullet. Seat a bullet in an unprimed, uncharged dummy case and then pull it out and measure the driving bands. They should be the same as before or your brass isn't expanded enough

[Scharfschuetze]

Measure the expander from your 7.62X54 die. I'll bet it's more like .308" in diameter. If so, you're about on the right track and get the proper neck tension with your .3095 diameter bullet.

You might want to consider a Lyman M Die for for 30 calibre rifles or the RCBS equivalent down the road. That'll flare the lip as well as expand your neck all in one step.

You didn't mention it, but a moderate roll crimp is also a good idea for your Marlin lever action rifle when feeding rounds from the magazine, particularly with your planned hunting loads.

[Outpost75]

In the .30-30 for hunting, wheelweight alloy works fine. Harder than 15 BHN is not desired. A charge of 30 grains of 4064, 4895, Varget or RL15 will give a good velocity for deer hunting.

[C. Latch]

I bought Lee dies for a very scientific reason - my LGS had them in stock at the time.

I swapped out a .311 expander, size my bullets to .311, bell my cases very slightly with a pair of pliers (shove them in mouth, twist, push, until case is lightly belled) and load them (gas checked NOE 311-165-SC, lubed with lithi-bee or ESPC) over 2400, 4227, or 4895 (speeds of 1800 to 2100) and my Marlin shoots them as well as I can shoot with peep sights. I use the factory crimp die to crimp them. Not sure if they need it, but it doesn't seem to hurt.

[williamwaco]

I would use the Lyman M die to expand and flare the mouth but if you are shooting a ragged hole at 25 yards, I would advise you to keep on doing what you are doing until you back off to 100 yards. Then if your results are no longer that happy, try something different.

[Larry Gibson]

Measure the expander from your 7.62X54 die. I'll bet it's more like .308" in diameter. If so, you're about on the right track and get the proper neck tension with your .3095 diameter bullet.

You might want to consider a Lyman M Die for for 30 calibre rifles or the RCBS equivalent down the road. That'll flare the lip as well as expand your neck all in one step.

You didn't mention it, but a moderate roll crimp is also a good idea for your Marlin lever action rifle when feeding rounds from the magazine, particularly with your planned hunting loads.

+1, you're on the right track.

Larry Gibson

[runfiverun]

all but the 311 die for the 3095 boolit.
that makes the gas check open the case when seating and you lose tension on the boolit.

[centershot]

Thanks for your input guys, it is appreciated! I mic'd the expander ball in my die, it is .310" OD, that should be about right for my .3095" bullets. I pulled a couple to check, they show no reduction in OD. So far, so good. Also, I found that I can neck size be using my 7.62 x 39 sizer die, set to size to the bottom of the 30-30 case neck. It also has a .310" expander ball. I prepped a few cases and will load some rounds today in anticipation of a range trip tomorrow.

Also, an interesting thing happened: while running my boolits thru the Lyman 450, I found that I could swage this soft alloy up to .311" OD. I'm using 50-50 WW and pure with 2% tin added, they cast at .3095" and easily swage up to .311". I had purchased a Group Buy mold, as I mentioned before, that is a clone of the Lyman #311041 except it is plain base and it is intentionally oversize at .313" OD, made for the Marlin Microgroove rifling. Cast of WW and loaded over 5 gr. of Bullseye they cut a jagged hole at 25 yds. Velocity is just under 1000 fps, so they're ideal for use on my club's indoor range. I'm going to load some of my swaged .311 gaschecked bullets for tomorrows range trip and see what happens. Does anyone else swage their boolits like this?

[petroid]

Does anyone else swage their boolits like this?

Not 100% but I think most people call it "bumping up"

[HiVelocity]

Centershot-

First, I would lose the Lee flaring tool. I have 2 of them, they just "bell" the case mouth, problematic. I would invest in an Lyman "M" die, that has a gradual taper, and is more cast bullet friendly. Secondly, I personally, only use my seating die to simply "seat" to a specific OAL. I then crimp with a FCD gently, in a separate operation. By doing so, the cast bullet isn't deformed in the seating process. [Anal, aren't I.......lol!]. Just food for thought folks.

HV

[centershot]

Yeah, I've been looking at the M die, I'll probably order one tomorrow. I do seat and crimp in 2 separate steps, using a FCD for crimping.

[ReloaderEd]

Your on the right track. The only other thing is to make sure all the case lengths are the same and to spec. as 30/30's do lentghen quite a bit. Be safe

[centershot]

Well, the range session today was rather uneventful. I loaded ten rounds with each boolit, .3095" and .311", over 30 grains of Varget. Accuacy has improved with each increase in powder charge (started with 26 grains), today's results yielded 2.5 inch groups at 50 yards. Bullet diameter didn't seem to matter, not surprising with a groove diameter of .3082". With a Sierra 170 gr. JSP over 32 gr. of Varget this rifle shoots 1" groups at 50 yds. so I know the potential is there! When I got home I ordered the Lyman M die from Graf's, it'll be here in a couple of days. I'll start preppeing cases while I wait......pob'ly should cast up some more boolits too!

[44man]

You overlook one thing, boolit run out. 30-30 brass is very bad with necks thicker on one side more then most other brass. Roll a round on the bench once.
I shoot a new Marlin with a 187 gr boolit I made a mold for, .301" bore ride and .311" drive. I use 26 gr of 3031 for 1903 fps. I use Felix lube too.
I turn necks enough to even them so run out is 0 to .002". This is what I get at 100 yards.116751 Most groups are under 1" and I shot the can 3 times, 5/16".
4895 also does well but Varget did only with 28.4 gr. at 50. Not good at 100 though. 116753This is my boolit.
You CAN NOT start cast crooked.

[Quiettime]

Yeah, I've been looking at the M die, I'll probably order one tomorrow.

They are tits for loading CB in bottle neck cases. Love mine, use them for .300 Blackout, 30-06 and now 30-30.

They work the same way the expanders in pistol die sets work.

[centershot]

OK, got the "M" die, I'll get some loads worked up and head to the range on the weekend, keeping my fingers crossed...........

[centershot]

Success!!! I wasn't able to get to the range until today, unfortunately, but the results were great! 10 shots into 1-1/2" inches at 50 yards! I was really happy with that. Here's the load data; W-W cases, neck-sized and trimmed to length; Lyman 311041 cast of 50-50 WW & pure with 1% tin added, lubed with Javelina and gas-checked - they weighed 174-175.5 grains naked, sorted by weight and visual inspection; 17.0 grains of #2400 and a CCI-250 primer. The "M" die is SLICK!!! Wish I'd picked one up way before this! Bullets were seated to the crimp groove and a moderate crimp applied in a separate step with a Lee FCD. Now, I'll start playing with the powder charge. 17 gr gives around 1700 fps according to the book, I'll bring the chrono along next trip. At 1700 fps with a boolit this soft I wouldn't hesitate to take these rounds hunting, my average shot in 40+ years of deer hunting is around 30 yds. The manual says 19 gr maximum is worth 1900 fps, we'll see what happens!