Man Eaters of Tsavo

[Kevinakaq]

The movie Ghost and the Darkness has always been a favorite of mine and earlier this evening I finally got around to reading the primary source - 'The Man Eaters of Tsavo' (leaflet) written by the Colonel. Was a great, albiet short, read that I enjoyed immensely. It was certainly hunting at a level very few have ever experienced. Being hunted while hunting...

I posted this within this forum because one of the lions is put down with a lead bullet fired from a Martini. I dont know how much energy that round puts out and will have to look it up. He uses his 303 most of the time, which is a caliber I shoot often and have a fondness for. He does mention that the 303 did not have knockdown power against the big lion when he shot it. We all know a 303 with a properly placed shot will kill anything so please let us not debate his choice. He also shoots the lion from almost directly above with a shotgun loaded with a slug and gets minimal penetration. Curious as I would have thought it would be ideal for close range devastation.

I found myself both envious of his adventure and overjoyed not to be there. I myself only have two calibers that I would find preferable for such perilous hunting. A 45-70 (Handi) and a 35 Newton (based on a Mauser Action) that I am carving a stock for. The 35 Newton (cast bullet paper patched) and the multiple shots it offers wins the nod in my book though a single 500 gr boolit from a stoutly loaded 45-70 catrdge would certainly do the trick. What would you carry, currently in your collection and shooting cast, if faced with the same challenge as the Colonel? I say in your collection because he relays convincingly what happens when you borrow a rifle and he did not plan to hunt lions. A reliable and well tested 303 beats the unknown any day. His shots involved near pitch dark, shooting unsure of target location, alone, etc... All to save lives, which makes for a completly different environment than your run of the mill safari with a guide backup.

My original reason for posting was to share his story in pdf form. I uploaded it to my dropbox and am providing a link to the pdf file. Enjoy as I did (can be read in less than an hour).

Leaflet from the Field Museum (short read) https://www.dropbox.com/s/jk11qxrit8xjwb3/maneateroftsavo.pdf?dl=0

Edit to add the full accounting (368 pages) https://ia600500.us.archive.org/21/items/maneatersoftsavo00pattiala/maneatersoftsavo00pattiala.pdf

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[M-Tecs]

Very good read but I never cared for the Hollywood BS in the movie.

[Janoosh]

Are those the lions in the Chicago Field museum. ?? I was there years ago to see the U-boat and the Stuka.

[nagantguy]

Just more proof lead works and that hitting the mark is far and a way more important than any ballistic chart or formula or the latest wizz banger. I would need a clean pair of shorts but would not feel under gunned with a good old nagant and some 190 gr boolits. Also on the slugs; I've been surprised a few times buy hogs shot at close range with 12 gauge slugs all bit good very few pass throughs bit many of them.still had fight and flight left in them for a bit. Like long enough to gut a dog or run through a cattle fence. From paper seems a hunk of lead going at respectable fps would destroy and disrupt so much bone tissue organs and liquid that it would always be DRT if hit well.

[Kevinakaq]

Are those the lions in the Chicago Field museum. ?? I was there years ago to see the U-boat and the Stuka.

the very same ones

[tygar]

Have the Patterson book in my collection. It is 320pgs & took me a lot longer than an hr.

From the platform a 10 or 12 ga. 1st shot 1 or 2 buck, 2 & 3 Breneke slugs, 4 & 5 buck.

On the ground 375 H&H.

Now on my part this is all a WAG, but it is what I used for big bears & I think it would be very comparable.

[Kevinakaq]

Have the Patterson book in my collection. It is 320pgs & took me a lot longer than an hr. From the platform a 10 or 12 ga. 1st shot 1 or 2 buck, 2 & 3 Breneke slugs, 4 & 5 buck. On the ground 375 H&H. Now on my part this is all a WAG, but it is what I used for big bears & I think it would be very comparable.

I should have checked on this as this is the leafleat that he wrote for the Field Muesuem. "This leaflet, prepared by Col. J. H. Patterson, recounts the main events of his remarkable experiences with man-eating lions previously told at greater length in his well-known book "The Man-Eaters of Tsavo." Thanks for pointing this out as I now have to find a PDF of the book or order it today!

EDIT: It didn't take long to find a PDF of the full book which is 368 pages long. Linked below and in the public domain.

https://ia600500.us.archive.org/21/items/maneatersoftsavo00pattiala/maneatersoftsavo00pattiala.pdf

[pmer]

I read the book and seen the movie. I think he wrote the 303 was the best at the time because it was a repeater. My best current repeater would be a 338-06 built on a mauser action. I think it can do 2500 FPS with a 250 grain. It's a good shooter with 200 grains at 2800 FPS. I had a CZ .458 Lott for a little while. I learned the thumb of my trigger hand can hit my nose during recoil if not properly shouldered.

[Janoosh]

Thanks, that was a good read. I'm guessing that nothing more substantial was available and so he used what at hand and most comfortable with. I'm still guessing at the shotgun failure and what went wrong.

[6thtexas]

I have the book and it is an good read. The movie stank in my opinion.
Patterson had a very interesting life and one incident he was involved in inspired Hemingway to write "The Short Happy Life of Francis Macomber".

[Kevinakaq]

Thanks, that was a good read. I'm guessing that nothing more substantial was available and so he used what at hand and most comfortable with. I'm still guessing at the shotgun failure and what went wrong.

I am as well. I just talked to my father to let him know I was sending him a used copy of the full book I found on Amazon for less than four bucks. Anyway, I mentioned to him about the slug and he was surprised by that as well as he prefers to hunt with slugs. Were the slugs then loaded with bp? What type of energy would he be getting?

[John Allen]

The book was a good read but of course the movie made it out to be so much more.

[Kevinakaq]

It's funny when you get a few guns you start forgetting some of the ones you have. I do have a Siamese Mauser in 45-70 that I would consider taking and would be a fine dangerous game rifle. Only problem with it is that it is a scope only rifle and doesn't have sights mounted on it. If it had a peep sight I think it would be my first choice, even above the 35 Newton (a fine dangerous game caliber as well). My 35 Newton still gets the nod though as it features a Lyman Receiver mounted peep sight which would be perfect for such hunting. I have read that a jacketed 35 Newton round can produce in excess of 5,000 ft. lbs of energy which is serious knock down power, but wonder what one could get a paper patched boolit to produce.

[2ndAmendmentNut]

Thanks for the PDF. I enjoyed the movie and would like to know more about the real story.

[Janoosh]

Kevinakaq, as to the shotgun loads.
I'm guessing that the 303 cartridge was cordite. But, the shotgun load would be black or.??. Given the climate, it's possible the powder charge degraded. If a paper shell, definitely. If a brass case, hmmmm.??
Off work today and bored, so plenty of time to ponder.

[Rufus Krile]

Robt Ruark's wife killed a lioness intent on wrecking her bird hunt with a 20 bore double and birdshot. I'm guessing it was up close and personal, but shotguns put a lot of energy on their target. For me... a 10 bore S X S loaded with large buckshot. The idea being not so much as DRT, but 'Let's live 'til daylight and deal with a trackable beastie on MY terms..." Local orthodontist had one turn up in the midst of his party (The video of this event went viral... you may have seen it) where they formed a circular firing squad to see how fast they could shoot. A very near run thing. He got knocked down and was still shooting from the upside down prone. There's a reason that all dangerous game guns have control-feed.

[Kevinakaq]

There's a reason that all dangerous game guns have control-feed. Excellent point indeed!

Janoosh,
Still thinking on that shotgun blast? If it was a degraded charge perhaps he would have noticed it in the report of the firearm, but then again maybe not as I'm certain his adrenaline was slightly elevated at the time.

[CplOswald74]

I have a Montana rifle company DGR chambered in 505 Gibbs that would be good lion medicine I'm sure as long as I did my part. A 600 grn flat nose wcww boolit at 2200 fps should fell any sort of critter. I would also be confident in using my Benelli M1 stuffed with home made 00 buck.

[Kevinakaq]

I have a Montana rifle company DGR chambered in 505 Gibbs that would be good lion medicine I'm sure as long as I did my part. A 600 grn flat nose wcww boolit at 2200 fps should fell any sort of critter. I would also be confident in using my Benelli M1 stuffed with home made 00 buck. That 505 Gibs puts you in the 6000 ft. lbs. of energy neighborhood... A toe shot might be fatal!

Always wanted a Binelli...thought I had one on a good trade a few months back but it eluded me.

[youngda9]

I read that a few months ago, a fine account. I keep reading Capsticks books as well, I'm on my 6th now I believe. And I just started reading Corbett as well. The dangerous game hunting stories is fascinating to me. I would use my 375 ruger with 300 grain cast boolits for such a task. 2100-2200fps through the boiler room will take down a lion.

[old and wise]

excellent book. will never make it to Africa but read much about it

[woodbutcher]

:-) First read that book when I was in the eighth grade.Back in 1957.Great read.
Good luck.Have fun.Be safe.
Leo

[saidnuff]

You can get the man eaters of the Tsalvo for free from Kindal books. You can get a Kindal app for just about any handheld. here's the link http://www.amazon.com/Man-Eaters-Tsavo-Other-African-Adventures-ebook/dp/B0082QKPMC/ref=sr_1_fkmr0_1?s=digital-text&ie=UTF8&qid=1410587342&sr=1-1-fkmr0&keywords=the+man+eaters+of+the+savao

[TXGunNut]

I'd be quite comfortable (all things considered) with my Guide Gun in 45-70 loaded with RD's 460-350 boolits. Quick on target and hits as hard as anything I can handle. A riot gun or 12ga SxS loaded up with slugs or buckshot sounds good but I've never shot anything big & cranky with one.

[starmac]

I would be more comfortable with the 45/70 gg, than anything else I own. Mainly because I have shot a lever action much more than bolt guns, and am way quicker if I need an extra shot.

[ksfowler166]

I am as well. I just talked to my father to let him know I was sending him a used copy of the full book I found on Amazon for less than four bucks. Anyway, I mentioned to him about the slug and he was surprised by that as well as he prefers to hunt with slugs. Were the slugs then loaded with bp? What type of energy would he be getting?
I can offer my best guest. He would have been shooting brass hull with either BP, Cordite, or bulk smokeless powder. The only projectile he could have used would be roundballs (~550gr) unless he was shooting a Paradox gun. With the above roundball load accuracy would have been spotty and if loaded with BP not had enough energy to work well. There can be large difference between BP and smokeless loads though with RB's I don't know how much. Just look at the 450 BPE with black powder one of the worlds best deer loads while with smokeless (450 NE) was a favorite for any game in the world until Great Briton banned the use of 45 caliber rifles.

As for what I would take that would be a Savage Stevens 12ga SxS cut down to a 24" barrel and fitted with rifled chokes and rifle sights with a Paradox slug. Which is a .730" projectile with a weight of 730gr at about 1200fps.

[kawasakifreak77]

Sounds like an incredible story!

As to what I would bring.. nothing in my collection seems powerful enough to trust my life with against something that wants me for dinner. Highest FPE rifle I own is a 6.5 swede which is more than powerful enough for my needs. I'd go out & buy a 375 H&H with open sights if I had to go but I don't know much about this.

I've always wanted a 375 H&H anyways!

[Goatwhiskers]

FWIW, I tried to go to the site for the full read and can't, there seems to be some problem with the security certificate. GW

[Kevinakaq]

Hmm i will download it to my local account and relink...

EDIT:
Try this link and let me know please as i am doing this from my ipad. Should take you to a dropbox page and allow you to download. It is a hair shy of 15 meg.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/hfrbvppu597dl3c/maneatersoftsavo00pattiala.pdf?dl=0

[scattershot]

Thanks for the link, looking forward to reading it.

[John Van Gelder]

I have been to the Field Museum, and seen the lions. I have also spent a lot of time on Kodiak Island and do not think the cats would stand a chance compared with the biggest carnivores on Earth.

But it is a given that African Lions are truly a force to contend with.

[nylocmik]

Regardless the caliber of the gun, I think the caliber of the man is most noteworthy. Pretty scary hunting an animal that is not only unafraid of humans, but takes pleasure from killing them. Not for a small gun or a small man.

[John Van Gelder]

I share my neighborhood with mt. lions, I killed one back in July that had camped out on the edge of my horse pasture, I walked up on that cat in a thicket and did not see him until I was about 15 feet away, he was lying down near a deer kill and showed absolutely no fear of me. I also have about five different bears that have showed on my trail cameras, I would rather deal with the bears than the cats.

When checking the cameras last weekend, I found pictures of another mt. lion..

[Multigunner]

The hides of the T'savo lions were several inches thick and crisscrossed with layers of scar tissue. The effect was like medieval armor. The 12 Ga ball only penetratred about two inches then was deflected by thick layers of sinew and ran under the skin along side the spine.

When they mounted the hides many years later they had to trrim, scrape, and steam the hides to force fit them to metal frames.
If you compare the skulls to the mounted animals you'll see these had to be twice as big when alive.

The T'savo lions are descendents of lions that followed slave carravans devouring slaves that were abandoned or escaped. When climate change stranded the beasts in T'savo they turned cannibal, only the strongest and most vicious survived to breed.

Scientific testing of the present day T'savo lions show extreme hormone imbalances that make them extra strong and vicious compared to other lion populations.

The .303 rounds Patterson would have used would have been round nosed 215 gr at around 2,000 FPS. The round was not noted as a manstopper much less a big five dangerous game cartridge in those days.
Penetration was fine, but it made small holes with little disruption of tissue.

The Dum Dum and later MkIV and Mk5 hollow points caused a lot of tissue disruption but did not penetrate very well.

[mannyCA]

Sadly, for the most part, that Africa is long gone.

[BruceB]

[QUOTE=Multigunner;2943930]The hides of the T'savo lions were several inches thick and crisscrossed with layers of scar tissue. The effect was like medieval armor. QUOTE]

Something about this statement struck me as wrong.

A quick check of several encyclopedia sources disclosed that all of them stated that ELEPHANTS have hide thickness of about one inch.

No lion that ever lived had a hide thicker than the pachyderm family.

[Multigunner]

No lion that ever lived had a hide thicker than the pachyderm family.
These did.
A lifetime of forcing their way through the thick sharp thorns that were common in that region and fighting with other lions had left these veteran killers covered with crisscrosed scars under the surface, mostly at head, shoulders and back.
T'savo lions are atypical, not your run of the mill lions.

[zac0419]

I too liked the story and put up with the movie. I like movies enough to appreciate that one was made so we could watch the story on a big screen.

As to the what guns from my safe to bring?

I'm not really set up for DG but I would start with my 375 Winchester Big Bore at a distance and draw my Freedom Arms 475 when I ran out of ammo in the Lever. I'd love to say I'd only bring the 475LB, but betting on my life makes me want to keep distance between prey and myself (also prey).

[Multigunner]

A quick look at a site with recent photos of present day Tsavo lions showed two close ups of lions with obvious recent scars at head and front og the body, whether from thorn bushes or fights with other lions it doesn't say.
I've seen keloid scars on human beings that were over 1/4" thick so scars in a lion's hide from savage batrtles with other lions could easily be more than an inch thicker than un marred areas of skin.
I've also found healed wounds in tanned cow hides from Argentina that had scar tissue 1/4 inch thick and these were difficult to cut with a razor sharp knife. One hide had what looked to be a partly healed wound from being gored, the softer partly healed skin in the center not surviving the skinning and tanning process, but the huge star shaped pattern of ropy scarring around the center was very thick and hard to cut. There were no signs of the wound having been stitched up, it may have been bandaged or just healed on its own without treatment.

My Shar Pei has the three layer skin of that breed. The middle layer is impregnated with a thick glue like matter that when the outer layer is cut or torn will quickly seal the wound. Not all animal skin is alike.

BTW
A site on the Giffafe claims that that animal has the thickest skin of land mammals.

[Multigunner]

Excuse me I meant Giraffe. My editing button still doesn't work.