Thoughts from the Alaska brown bear hunters

[bikerbeans]

Hi All,

I was at my private gun club today when a fellow showed up to practice with a rifle he borrowed. He said he is going to AK this fall to hunt brown bear with his son, a bush pilot. The gun he borrowed is a SS bolt gun with synthetic stock with bipod, long distance scope (6x20x50), muzzle break and is chambered in 30-378 weatherby magnum. He had two boxed of reloaded ammo that the gun's owner gave him, looked to be 150 to 165 grain ballastic tips. I immediately noticed that one of the bullets was pushed down into the case so that the case mouth was on the oglive. I suggested he not shoot that one. Also, I couldn't see any real crimps on the other rounds. How would you AK fellows feel about taking this setup into the wild and going after a brownie? BTW, I left the range before he shot it, he was with a friend and they are both big boys.

BB

[AlaskanGuy]

Hmmmm, shooting America's most dangerous animal, the Alaskan brown bear with a borrowed gun that he has shot a couple of dozen rounds out of??? Ummmmmm, eeeeeee, errrrrr..

ok, ok, I will say it, I wouldn't do it... I would want to go with a gun that I had shot so much that felt like an old friend, with a load that I had spent a long time developing.... But that is just me... Not only that, but that gun he is shooting is gunna kick even with a muzzle break unless he is shooting cast....

just my thoughts.

AG

[TheDoctor]

Not an alaskan guy, though I did sleep in a Holiday Inn Express once. Too much scope! Way too much scope. Probably too much of the wrong caliber too. That brake on that chambering is gonna rock his world. I would not want a 1000 yard plus screamer, I would want a heavy, deep penetrating thumper. And if he wants to bet his life on someone elses reloads..... You know hunting guides just LOVE IT when someone shows up with a mega powered for caliber, muzzle braked rifle with too powerful scope that you have to fiddle with to get right, when you probably will not have time.

[fouronesix]

The 30-378 will do ok but the margin is not great. Of all the bullets, especially out of a high vel rifle, the 150 or 165 (or any Ballistic Tip for that matter!!) is absolutely the wrong choice of bullet for the job. Matter of fact I couldn't think of a worse combination- high velocity Ballistic Tip- yikes. A 375 HH with a 300 gr Partition, A Frame or North Fork bonded SS would be far superior. The 375 HH with a 270 or 300 Barnes TSX would be far superior.

[BruceB]

Dangerous-game ammo has a couple of CRITICAL requirements.

-The cartridges must FUNCTION reliably through the rifle. This means cycling every single round through the magazine and into the chamber.

-The cartridges must be safe to fire in the rifle..... no max loads, no sticky cases. Full-power, yes, but no ragged-edge pressures

-the rifle must be suitable for the worst possible conditions, meaning an angry or wounded animal at extreme close range. Fairly light, fairly short and handy, NOT equipped with a" long-range" sight (6-20X, good grief... is he TRYING to get mauled?)

-the hunter must be FAMILIAR with the rifle, meaning he should have fired it dozens of times, and dry-cycled it hundreds more.

- and last but far from least, he should use proven, top-quality dependable premium bullets,because the bullet is what actually does the killing. Nosler Partitions at the minimum, and preferably Barnes TSX or similar bullets. Heavy -for-caliber, too.... 200-plus grains in that .30-378.

His rifle and scope combination is one of the WORST I can imagine for the chore. Bears are not impressed by paper ballistics.

[onceabull]

Take heed to BruceB's commentary.. If I was forced to use that rifle, It would be loaded with 220 Nosler Partitions, and wear a 2.5-3x scope...and I would worry a lot...!! Onceabull

[snowwolfe]

Since it is his hunt and his choice I would just keep my mouth shut and let him do what he wants.

[bikerbeans]

Since it is his hunt and his choice I would just keep my mouth shut and let him do what he wants.

That was what I did. I wouldn't have looked at his rifle or ammo if he hadn't of asked me to. After I pointed out the deep seated bullet and told him my concern he just put it back in the ammo box. I told him to have a good hunt, and I meant it. The guy is a Mennonite pastor so maybe his Boss will look after him in AK.

BB

[DeputyDog25]

I'll just stick with my 35 Whelen and about a 220gr bullet and I would feel as safe as I could get. I would not go do what he is going to go do with the equipment he got to go do what it is he is going to do, I would do what I said I would do with the equipment I said I would go and do it with.

[Jbiker]

Talking about a short ,lite weapon for bear ...hmmm alexander arms BEOWOLF . 50 CAL MIN 375 GR BULLET , and these are the lite loads,...YOU CAN PUT 8 ROUNDS IN A STANDARD 20 ROUND AR MAG...handles same as an AR 10 or AR 15...as for shooting fun for the first 10- 12 rounds , painful after 15....black and blue after 18 ...BUT......it'll do the job every time..in close and out to 150 yds.

[blademasterii]

Actually I have cast, red powder coated 460g lee wfn boolits for my .50 beowulf. :D As soon as I can find the right powder I will load me up a few mags full to play with. I am thinking it will make one heck of a hog gun here in florida. I think it would work just fine on a bear, and if the first round didn't work, simply try a few more immediately.

[Hogtamer]

BruceB, I think you just described my 12 ga 870 with rifled barrel, except I load bigger, MUCH bigger slugs moving about 1500 fps! :bigsmyl2::bigsmyl2: 495 grn old style minies from COWW in a tight fitting sabot. 115859
115860

[MarkP]

That 30-378 probably has a 28" pipe without the break! I sure hope he has a couple people backing him up with 12 ga slugs.

[Multigunner]

The more I hear about Grizzly Bears the more I figure the best gun for bear defense would be Clyde Barrows cut down BAR. A couple of ten round bursts of AP should do the trick. If it will stop a car load of heavily armed Feds or wipe out a squad of NAZI supermen it should stop an angry bruin.
I'd use AP because I'd definitely want to cut the spine, and theres a lot of bear between the front end of a Grizz and his back bone.

Seriously I say "defense" and mean just that, I can't think of a single good reason to go into bear country looking for a Grizzly. If one finds me thats a different story.

No way I'd depend on someone elses handloads for any reason, and definitely not when my life would be at stake.

[MaryB]

If he really has the need to glass around on high power with a scope get a 3-9x40 or something...

[1911cherry]

Wow good luck to him, I have been working up a load for deer. I keep second guessing myself ,after 500 or so rounds I found a load I feel confident in. I couldn't imagine hunting dangerous game with a loaner rifle and unproven ammo, too many things could go wrong.

[Akheloce]

I've never seen a shot on a Grizz over 125 yards or so. Not saying they haven't been taken at longer, I just haven't seen it. In my neck of the woods, a shot is ether <100 yards, or over 600 (based on terrain). Never been a fan of the high velocity .30's. IMO a 30-06 is plenty fast for typical distances. My typical carry is a 35 Whelen with 310 gr Woodleighs. When going out west for Bou, I take the -06 with 180 TSX's.

Why do people think they need a super mag for their Alaska trip? - Especially one that theyre not intimately familiar with? Using BT's in a 30-378 against a bear is laughable.

Might as well plan on varmint grenades in a 22-250

[AlaskanGuy]

Have to agree...375 h&h throwing a big chunk of lead out of a gun that I have hunted with for 15 years is the only way... Even then I would hope to have backup with an 870 with a lot of slugs loaded up... Lots of folks around here use 45-70's and throw large chunks of lead... A buddy of mine swears by his 405gr fairly hard cast for under 100yd protection... But I like the 375 h&h...

[Rufus Krile]

Did anyone tell him to make sure he takes a fat guy with him? Those Nosler BT's at warp 7 are just going to explode and really upset Mr. Teeth. Saw a VHS tape of a moose shot at 50yds with BT's out of a .300 Mag. Bullwinkle failed to see the humor and ran the shooter, guide, and photographer around an alder mott until the guide got enough '06 stuff in him.

[lefty o]

wrong bullet, and too much scope. thankfully he will have a mandatory guide standing right there with him, who hopefully doesnt feel like being mutilated by a big ticked off bear. i personally would have hurt his feelings and set him right. its one thing to bring a crappy setup on a deer hunt, but not when the game can hunt you.

[dh2]

barrowed gun for the hunt of a life time? I would be putting ammo through it tell it felt like it was part of me. so a barrowed gun probably not for me. 30 cal. any thing I would see a too light. a good 300 mag. of some kind pushing a 200gr. slug would be my lightest choice.
he need to worry a lot less about having a long rang set up and go for a harder hit at a closer range.
like some of the others I would look at .375 H&H with a 270 or 300gr. slug or 9.3x62mm Mauser with a 286gr.slug
to me Alaska and Africa are is the same boat as far the gun to hunt it goes.

[ThaDave]

Talking to a buddy the travels up there for work on the oil lines and often goes on off time to hunt, 30-06, 308 and even Mosin- Nagants are very common rifles because ammo is easy to get and work just fine. a 300 ultra wizzbang is great on paper but if it was me going I'd want to talk to the locals in the area and see what is common up there and start with that.

Normally I try to mind my own business but if it comes to doing something that might get someone hurt or killed just because they want to be lazy or cheap I'd have to speak up and if they didnt listen at least I tried to help.

[leadman]

I use 150gr Ballistic Tips in my Encore 7mm Rem Mag ProHunter with a 28" barrel at 3,300 fps for cow elk. Works great and never had to track one. Never found a bullet either as they always exited and left a fist sized hole in the off-side. Not the same as going for the biggest animal on the continent. The hunting BTs are mush stouter than from years ago but I can't agree they are the right bullet in this case.

I would rather hunt with my 60s' era Savage 30-06 and change the scope from the 3 x 9 Leupold to the 2 X 7 Leupold. Still enough scope for 300 yards if needed. I would feel better if the bear was no more than 150 yards away and no closer then 100 yards!

Let's hope after his range session that he looks at other rifle choices. Wonder if he has a guide and told him what he wants to bring on the hunt?

[Akheloce]

All nonresident brown bear hunters need either a guide, or a resident second kindered relative with them by law.

[lbaize3]

I have tremendous respect for brown bears (and elephants for that matter) and agree with Elmer Keith. Use as big a gun as possible. Now I am thinking about a double barrel recoiless rifle.......

[tygar]

Have to agree...375 h&h throwing a big chunk of lead out of a gun that I have hunted with for 15 years is the only way... Even then I would hope to have backup with an 870 with a lot of slugs loaded up... Lots of folks around here use 45-70's and throw large chunks of lead... A buddy of mine swears by his 405gr fairly hard cast for under 100yd protection... But I like the 375 h&h...

Yep. AKguy & I, as usual, are in agreement. A long time ago I found that 375s w/270-300s is the way to go for moose & bear, from 5' to 300yds & longer if your good enough.

Agree that that gun/load is way wrong. Too fast, too small.

[Duckiller]

Obviously the man is going to use shock and awe to kill the bear. A 30-378 burns lots of powder and makes a big noise. Put a recoil reducer on it and it will make a really big noise. No animal could stand up to that noise could it?

[1Shirt]

I was an Alaska resident when I killed my Kodiak, so it was fair chase and no guide. I shot mine at a distance of 20 yds, with a 300 gr. Hor Rn blt in a 375H&H Browning over a dead walrus on the beach. Bear was facing me, and it was a center shot in the chest. Bullet went full length of the bear, and I recovered the bullet (about 175 gr remained) near the base of the tail. One shot kill, but the bear went nearly 150 yds before it bleed out.

My partner killed his with an 06 that I had loaded for him with a 200 gr Round Nose over a max load of 4350, at a range of approx. 60 yds. Neck shot, dropped it in its tracks. I would never hunt the big bears with anything less than a 30-06, but my preference would be either a 338 or 375 H&H. This guy will be guided as he is a non resident. I would not want to be the guide for this individual.
1Shirt!

[dkf]

For what a fly in hunting trip to AK costs spending another $2k on a .375HH or .458lott rifle is really not too much to ask for. You can always sell it when you get back. I know I would want a sizeable chunk of lead (that will hold together) for a clean body shot kill on a big brown bear.

[snowwolfe]

All nonresident brown bear hunters need either a guide, or a resident second kindered relative with them by law.

Read the thread, he said the guy was going to hunt with his son who was living in Alaska so its easy to conclude his son is an Alaskan resident. Therefore his son will be his "guide"

[Akheloce]

Read the thread, he said the guy was going to hunt with his son who was living in Alaska so its easy to conclude his son is an Alaskan resident. Therefore his son will be his "guide"

Ahh missed that part.

Hopefully his son straightens him out. If not, good luck to him.

[762 shooter]

I would suppose that his son, an Alaskan resident and bush pilot, will look after him. I bet he has a great time and wonderful memories of the hunt. I doubt that a son would let his pappy get to closing range with that setup.

BikerBeans, Let us know if he walking or carried when he gets home please.

Oh ye of little faith.

762

[1Shirt]

Unless something has changed, in order to guide, you must be a registered guide, and not just an Alaskan resident, regardless of being a relative or not.
1Shirt!

[tygar]

Unless something has changed, in order to guide, you must be a registered guide, and not just an Alaskan resident, regardless of being a relative or not.
1Shirt!

"Unless things have changed", if he is a first (or maybe even, second) degree of kinship, he can take his relative hunting. Just need the required tags.

[starmac]

The son does not need to be a guide, as long as he is a resident.

There is a reason 338's, 375's and 45/70 are extremely popular here, but lot's of natives carry virtually anything, right down to 223's.