vendor gripe

[edadmartin]

I don't like to complain but I thought Id say something so as to keep others from having the same issues with this vendor.
3-4 weeks ago I ordered regular 200gr lswc from a company called Penn Bullets.They have run my cc but have not shipped. I guess they run in batches and my number hasn't come up yet.If this was a special bollit I could understand ,but its not, just a swc. Ive ordered and received lswc from MBC in way less time ,avg 5 days !!!.
If and when I get these special Penn bullets it will be the last time. oh I contacted him and asked for order cancellation but he said My card had been charged and I was now in the que. anywhere from 2 days to 6 weeks. This is not the kind of business Ill ever deal with again, so just heads up !!!@

['74 sharps]

File a dispute with the card company over the charge as merchandise not received but paid for.

[shooter93]

This seems to have become fairly common with Penn Bullets. They go to shows here and always seem to start off with a big supply and sell out fast. Maybe they are leaning more to the cash and carry crowd letting mail and internet orders wait. Not the way it should be though.

[jonp]

About every online place I can think of that I have had to wait on a backorder has taken my order and card number but not charged until the item shipped. One place I forgot about and 6mths later noticed a charge I didn't recognize. Next day the product showed up. If this is howpenn does business they should clearly state that. I would not do business with someone like that. Call your cc and have a dispute opened then file a complaint with BBB. Also make sure you email penns svc dept and cancel the order and ask for immediate refund onto your card.

[McE1911]

2days-6weeks?? What tbe heck!!!
like Excess650 said... your card shouldn't have been charged until the order was ready to ship. I so would have disputed the charges then add them on the black list.

[ShooterAZ]

Call them back again, tell them you have contacted the credit card company and are having the charges reversed. Then proceed to buy some molds and start casting your own. Just one more reason to do just that.

[leeggen]

Is this company one of our vendors? If so I would think someone needs to have a conference with them about how we expect the vendors to treat customers.
CD

[Charlie U.]

I placed an order last year with Penn Bullets for a batch of their thunderhead bullets in .476.
Like you, I paid via credit card and saw a lag in shipping. I ended up e-mailing him to say "hey, what gives?" and got a similar response.

Penn Bullets is a small business. (I'm not sure, but it might even be a one-man show) so I decided to be patient........eventually I got my order.
They are good boolits and I was reasonably pleased with the product.

With regards to Promptness?.....Not so much.


Boolits in .476 in that wide metplat configuration don't grow on trees. So I would do business with Penn again simply because he offers a particular product that I like. However, I do so with the knowledge that I will have to wait a while for my order to be filled.

[Jack Stanley]

It's an easy fix , if the mold isn't there by the time you are ready to pay the credit card bill . Call and write a letter to your credit card company . I've found it very effective on those who want the money long before shipping .

Jack

[TXGunNut]

Call them back again, tell them you have contacted the credit card company and are having the charges reversed. Then proceed to buy some molds and start casting your own. Just one more reason to do just that.

Amen, I was casting better boolits than I could buy a few hours after I unboxed my loading tools and it's been an awesome ride ever since. Beats the heck out of sitting around waiting for someone to decide to ship you some.

[Moonie]

Amen, I was casting better boolits than I could buy a few hours after I unboxed my loading tools and it's been an awesome ride ever since. Beats the heck out of sitting around waiting for someone to decide to ship you some.

Agreed, now I just have to wait for ME to decide to get out and cast :violin::kidding:

[jonk]

When someone has a published shipping schedule- Bullshop for instance, when in Alaska, didn't get to the PO daily- I have no issue if my card is charge on the day of the order, so long as the order goes out on the next scheduled delivery day. So a FEW days lag is acceptable.

Weeks? Uh uh. Back orders are acceptable, but you charge when the order is ready to go.

I agree though, except for a few specialty casters that let you specify diameter, hardness, and lube type, most commercial bullets are over-hard junk with rock hard lube that does nothing, undersized to promote leading; just because they LOOK nice in the box. Get a six banger mold and go to work. I can drain a 20 lb lee pot (making 500 or so 230 gr RN bullets) in 20 minutes, once the mold and lead is to temperature. Figure another 20-30 minutes for the next batch of lead to melt, and I've essentially got 1000 bullets in probably just over an hour. Well worth my time and yours.

That's also where tumble lube shines. Unless you have a commercial lubing machine, lubing 1000 bullets is... a PITA. Tumble lubing them and shooting as cast? Takes another minute to lube them, a few hours to dry, they're ready to go.

[Love Life]

I stopped considering Penn Bullets years ago when they sent their shill out amongst the interweb to spread blatant lies and false information about Missouri Bullet Company.

[jmort]

I would buy from Penn but be prepared to wait. They have some unique designs. I have corresponded with the owner of Missouri Bullets and I would mention that they needed to discover the meplat. He said one day he would make the "Mortimer Double Wide" as a jibe, but a few months ago he sent me an email saying that the Mortimer Double Wide lives in the form of the .357 Pug Nose. So I ordered a 1,000. Also like their "Magic Alloy" which is a great deal for Hardball.

[dakotashooter2]

My experience has been that generally businesses that "take your money" far in advance to shipping you product are in financial trouble.

[fredj338]

This is the way Penn is. It is annoying, but he is reliable, been around doing this along time. I wouldn't do business that way but he does & if you want his bullets, a bit over priced IMO, then that is how it works.

[williamwaco]

I have two words for you.

SNS Casting.

See:\\http://snscasting.com/

[bedbugbilly]

Regardless of who it is or what issues they may be having in terms of delayed delivery - you don't charge a person's credit card until you can deliver/ship - it's just a plain poor business practice that can come back and bite them in the rear. All it takes is a few complaints to the credit card company and they could very well loose the privilege of accepting credit cards. If a business can't deliver - they need to notify the customer to give them the opportunity to either "back order" or "cancel".

[Fluxed]

I have two words for you.

SNS Casting.

See:\\http://snscasting.com/

Same two words from me.

[edadmartin]

wow, What a range of replys from he's ok just wait, to call out the marines. Ill wait it out a couple of weeks then the cc company will be called. Just every one pass the word.
His lead times are stated ,but I thought it was just a disclaimer, turns out its the norm. If I was needing a specialized bullet Id be fine with the lead time but geez I could order new gear learn to cast and shoot them all before Id have this guys stuff ,its unreasonable for sure, and It will be the last time. Funny he wasn't even the lowest priced guy around for 45 acp 200gr lrnfp. Ill stick with MBC,but I did just cast my first 100 boolits yesterday they went back into the pot but it is a blast to learn something new.

[John Boy]

I've got 2 more words ... CJN Casting
I know the owner, Carl Nill, personally - have been in the shop many times - always see a full inventory on the shelves and have shot his bullets for years! Currently, he is running 3 Master Casters machines
http://cjncasting.com/index.shtml

[jonp]

Lead time is fine. Charging your card several weeks or months before delivery is not

[GRUMPA]

I may not be the best out there, but I view things maybe a bit different than the newer generation does. Whenever someone orders brass from me it's just common courtesy to open the communication line and keep people informed as much as possible. Second and possibly the most important rule: As soon as funds are received, the product at that point ceases to be yours and is now thiers. There is absolutely no reason good enough for that not to happen, and every effort should be made to get whatever product it is to its rightful owner.

I would be writting the company and tell them this constitutes credit card fraud. If the product is not shipped within 24hrs with a tracking number and in the system where it can be tracked I'm calling the credit card company to launch a complaint. Ever deal with a credit card company before? Trust me they have some very sharp teeth, and they do know how to use them.

Just my .02

[gpidaho]

It is my pet peeve when companies assume you are offering them a zero interest small business loan when in fact you are only offering them custom. Lead time and back order are fine with me, just don't charge me until you are prepared to ship. As GRUMPA said they are dealing with products and funds that belong to ME. my .02 GP

[cstrickland]

I do not have any connection to PENN, and I would not do business with him seeing as this is the way he works. Now on the other side he states that this is the way he does business right on his sight. to me buyers need to read this and proceed with that knowledge. Not defending the guy, but he does tell you what to expect. The only reason I point this out is that PSA is a little similar ( and I buy several things from them a year) , although they do not charge your card until your order ships, but they do take 15 - 20 business days to ship, and put that in bold red letters, and yet I still see a lot of people gripping about that.

I just do not think it fair to gripe about the guy when he has states on his site, that your card will be charged before the items are made and shipped.

https://www.pennbullets.com/order-processing.htm

[edadmartin]

I contacted him this morning and told him Id wait one more week for my shippment and then Id be filing a cc claim.Funny how the squeaky wheel gets the oil.so we will see .Here is his email reply today.




Robert Palermo



12:50 PM (15 minutes ago)
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to me
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I appreciate your concern over the time frame on your order and the guidelines on order processing are a general approximation of the process here. Most orders go out well within those time frames but every once in awhile somethings go amiss and the order doesn't go out as planned.

Normally your order would have gone out before now but we did run out of the .45 200 gr rnfps when I last e-mailed you on August 21st thinking your order would have gone out with that run but we had come up short and the your order got delayed beyond what I would have considered appropiate.
I ran more of those today and will have your order out tommorow morning.
Demand for our products has almost always exceeded our ablity to supply it as fast as I would like even though we have made many improvements in the process and most orders go out ina fairly timely fashion these days. Unfortunatly yours wasn't one of them. To that end I can offer as way of a small compensation a free shipping on the next one and we should and will do better on that one.
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[edadmartin]

cstrickland I read the policy blurb,and placed my first order in good confidence, but never in my life thought standard 200gr rn boolits would take a guy 4 weeks plus, no matter what his stated policy is. You'll agree that there are many other places to buy 45 acp lead that can deliver asap,MBC being one . This was my first dealing with Penn and the taste isnt very good. I could over look longer lead times of a small batch shop, and some folks have no problem waiting long lead times, but never should he charge a customers card before shipping. When a vendor doesn't return 3 attempts at contact, it makes you feel like your being blown off.
Im certainly not making it up or am I a basher, Its not about being fair, its about good business practice as far as Im concerned.
Also I believe members here want to know about the quirky vendors out there , that way they have valid info and can buy or not based on their own good knowledge of the vendor in question.

[just bill]

FWIW, I have thousands of boolits from Penn on my shelf, pre obomascare, on Jan 22, 2013 made an order, on Jan 23, 2013 the back order went from 2 weeks to 12. As of yet no stuff. I haven't suffered as of yet. Swaging waiting has taken over. My next order for swaging will be for .40/10mm dies to use my home made jackets from the .458 jacket trimmings.

May as well go down swaging.


Bill

[cstrickland]

cstrickland I read the policy blurb,and placed my first order in good confidence, but never in my life thought standard 200gr rn boolits would take a guy 4 weeks plus, no matter what his stated policy is. You'll agree that there are many other places to buy 45 acp lead that can deliver asap,MBC being one . This was my first dealing with Penn and the taste isnt very good. I could over look longer lead times of a small batch shop, and some folks have no problem waiting long lead times, but never should he charge a customers card before shipping. When a vendor doesn't return 3 attempts at contact, it makes you feel like your being blown off.
Im certainly not making it up or am I a basher, Its not about being fair, its about good business practice as far as Im concerned.
Also I believe members here want to know about the quirky vendors out there , that way they have valid info and can buy or not based on their own good knowledge of the vendor in question.

I agree with you on all points except calling it a gripe. I just don't feel we as consumers can gripe when we read the published policy of a vendor , agree to it by placing an order, and then are shocked or put out when it does not fit what we think should be reasonable.

now I also stated I would not do business with this vendor or others that have the same practice, so I am there with you 99%. I will never agree to have my money taken in good faith, for a order to come at a later date solely determined by if you have time to do it or not. you ship my order then you can bill my card. As others stated I can understand a late in the day order or weekend, but that is it.


sorry I am not trying to ruffle feathers. hope I did not offend you

[edadmartin]

right there with you,my dad and I did boat repair from 73 to 91, small business has to be up front and ethical and of course customer service is the most important for repeat buyers.
its cool, everyone has a opinion , and I encourage that, after all this is still the USA . no harm no foul. I will let you all know what develops.

[kungfustyle]

It must be fantastic to be in that much demand. I placed an order with them over 1 year and they hit my CC. I did e-mail and canceled my order but never received a conformation either way (to buy or cancel). 1 year later they charged my credit card for the order. I did contact my bank and disputed the charge and was issued the funds back. However, the person at Penn wasn't very helpful or understanding. The bank did change my cc # and Penn dropped the pursuit. So I'm left with a neutral experience with them siding on negative. Had my bank not refunded the money I know that Penn would not have. But like I said, it must be nice to have that much business to have concerns like that.

[daniel lawecki]

Try Bullets Direct .com or just check their site shipping is very reasonable.

[Moonie]

If I needed to purchase cast boolits I would contact the guys on here that sell, there are several. And they know exactly what they are doing, sizing, lube everything as they pay attention. Most commercial casters cast to specific sizes for each caliber and use very hard lubes that are great for shipping but not so good for shooting.

[edadmartin]

well the one good thing about this gripe is it has introduced me to trusted vendors here and referrals to a few other casting companies I didn't know about . Is there an actual casters contact list here for where to buy?

[hickfu]

If Penn has a specific boolit that works good in your rifle... send one of the boolits to Accurate molds or any other mold manufacture and have a mold made so you can cast your own.

[edadmartin]

well this will be the last post on this problem and maybe the moderator should kill it.
Penn bullets emailed again and said that My bullets had been delivered on the 29th, and if I didnt have them to check with the mail man. So I called right away this morning and they found my box in holding. They said the mail carrier had tried to deliver to my door because the box was very damaged ,I wasn't home so they didn't leave it but gave me no notice to come and inspect. I just got back and the box was really tore up but, it didnt look like any boolits were missing or damaged. So all the talk about my order falling thru the cracks and it being run yesterday was ,I guess mis speak on penn's side. At this point I dont care, but first inspection shows some wrinkled a bullet noses and the first 6 I put a mic to were .4495- .4500-.4515 none over that,none .452 or greater so far ! but no really perfect castings either, compared to lazer cast or MBC quality was lesser .so that seals it for me with PENN, Im done put a fork in me .

[gwpercle]

Midway sells double cavity Lee moulds for twenty dollars, might be worth it to not have all this aggravation . Become the master of your boolit supply!

[edadmartin]

Yep, Ive got the first batch of 50 200gr lrnfp done. decided to up grade to the lee 4-20 pot from the lee production IV so waiting for it to arrive,got the other one up on ebay.

[edadmartin]

I thought Id do one more info post about penn. I did get my lrnfp 200gr bullets. I was not impressed with the quality from a pro outfit.they had a large seam and that made it hard to measure in the center Now If I had cast them ,then Id say ok good enough.They are shootable. He mentioned that if id do another order Id probably get them in less time and no hassle, not offer of any discount, so some folks have had goo results I did not . Ive bought many bullets from,MB and never had any issues so they have my loyalty. 11-10 14 so thats it, and I didnt post this to slam any company or person I thought it honest info for other new shooters who may not know which companys are worthy or not.

[fredj338]

There are dozens of small casters offering vanilla bullets like that, cheaper than Penn too.

[W.R.Buchanan]

I came into this discussion late but,,,I don't understand something here.

I don't care what his "Policy" is. And I don't care if you read it and agree to it or not,,,,

He can't "LEGALLY" charge your card until he ships.

This is an ILLEGAL business practice!

This guy really need a heads up as to what is what, before he ends up in jail. What he is doing is called "Credit Card Fraud!"

I would never do this, and have never even considered doing it and I've been doing credit card transactions for 20+ years.


My .02,,,and my other .02 is,,, I would not even consider doing business with this outfit after hearing this krap. This is totally unacceptable. When an outfit gets too big to service it's smaller customers in a timely fashion, then they are too big for me to do business with, and will continue to be so when I get big too.

Some people just have way too high an opinion of themselves. Usually not deserved either.

Randy