Tumbling Round Balls?

[PbHurler]

Good evening,

I broke-in a few molds today, one of which a Lyman .490 RB mold.

About the sprue mark: I know I can load these either sprue up or down as long as I'm consistent in regards to the sprues' location.

Is it even worthwhile to consider trimming the minute "sprue tail" from the ball to try to avoid the attention to it's location when seating?

I "figured" could rotate the balls back into the mold 90 degrees & give the mold handles a squeeze to swage down the minute sprue tail that remains to improve the roundness.

Has anyone ever tumbled their round balls in a smooth drum, type tumbler IE: Thumblers Tumbler, to even-up the sprues on the balls or would this be just a waste of time?

Or am I being too anal about this?

Thanks guys

[SavageMan2506]

I wouldn't it can deform them beyond usability.

[Taylor]

I've done it,used a small rock tumbler.Worked the sprue right into the ball.Perfectly round,no issues.

[triggerhappy243]

Cabelas used to sell this jiggy thing that you put a bunch of the round balls in and spun a steel plate on top. it would peen the sprue into the ball......................... supposedly. Me? if I was that concerned about it, I may use a file real careful to knock down the protruding sprue.

[Beagle333]

Some folks just cover the bottom of a cardboard box about 1/4 of the way in round balls and let that box ride around in the trunk of the car for a while. :cool:

[Tatume]

Try it. Clean up 10 and take them and another 10 without the treatment to the range. Shoot two 10-shot groups. Decide for yourself if it is worth the trouble.

Take care, Tom

[Taylor]

What made me try the tumbler was someone posted a while back about putting them in the saddlebags (hard bags) of his bike,and forgetting them.When found they where nice and round,no sprue,all from the vibration of the bike.I used a kids toy rock tumbler to try it.and it worked,for me anyway.

[Toymaker]

The father of a friend had a home made device like the one Triggerhappy mentions. Every RB he made got treated. HE swore it made a difference and I guess that's all that counts. As he pushed into his 90's he slowed down and couldn't get all his record shots off in the time allowed, but what he did shoot were always in the X or 10 ring.

[Maven]

To find out if it really matters, why not try a sample, say 20 with sprue v. 20 without, bench rested at 50- or 100 yd., all else being equal?

[carbine]

Many N-SSA shooters tumble their .69 round balls to eliminate the sprue. With speed loading you don't want to fight a stubborn round.
A member makes a sprue cutter that attaches to a drill. He sizes it for the actual ball eg .578

[Tatume]

Try it. Clean up 10 and take them and another 10 without the treatment to the range. Shoot two 10-shot groups. Decide for yourself if it is worth the trouble.


To find out if it really matters, why not try a sample, say 20 with sprue v. 20 without, bench rested at 50- or 100 yd., all else being equal?

Great minds think alike.

[PbHurler]

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/images/misc/quote_icon.png Originally Posted by Tatume http://castboolits.gunloads.com/images/buttons/viewpost-right.png (http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?p=2916203#post2916203) Try it. Clean up 10 and take them and another 10 without the treatment to the range. Shoot two 10-shot groups. Decide for yourself if it is worth the trouble.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/images/misc/quote_icon.png Originally Posted by Maven http://castboolits.gunloads.com/images/buttons/viewpost-right.png (http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?p=2916282#post2916282)
To find out if it really matters, why not try a sample, say 20 with sprue v. 20 without, bench rested at 50- or 100 yd., all else being equal?


Great minds think alike.

Yup, good idea(s). Looks like I've got some 'speriment'n to do!

Thanks again guys.

[arclight]

I've done this with buckshot, Just dump them in any tumbler (vibratory is fine) with a bit of graphite and walk away for a couple of hours.

Arclight

[koger]

I have heard the myth, did the range work, total waste of time and money. For years I tried every available trick to increase accuracy, does not shoot one bit better. I load the sprue up, with my homemade patches in all My RB rifles. I have 31 NMLRA medals to prove it works, and 2 state championships here in KY, plus numerous local matches and in other states. You need to try it on several days, since you might have one good day, one bad, but put in a machine rest, reload the same every time using black, no improvement if you are shooting the right combo of ball, patch, and load of powder.

[dagger dog]

I have heard the myth, did the range work, total waste of time and money. For years I tried every available trick to increase accuracy, does not shoot one bit better. I load the sprue up, with my homemade patches in all My RB rifles. I have 31 NMLRA medals to prove it works, and 2 state championships here in KY, plus numerous local matches and in other states. You need to try it on several days, since you might have one good day, one bad, but put in a machine rest, reload the same every time using black, no improvement if you are shooting the right combo of ball, patch, and load of powder.

koger,

Do you pre-cut your patches or cut at the muzzle?

[Fly]

I look at it as this.When you force a ball into the muzzle you deform it.So why are
you trying to make it round? just to ram it down the barrel & deform it.Makes no
sense to me.
Fly

[waksupi]

After tumbling, check your diameters. I've had them shrink from unseen voids.

I found if I really want top accuracy, weigh the balls. I keep separate lots to use during competition, and odd weights for play.

[OverMax]

No better place to flatten sprue's than ones (side) pants pocket. Two or 3-4 balls freely rolling around. By the end of a work week they'll be as smooth and shiny as a baby's tush.

[koger]

Dagger you can pre cut them or cut them as you load them, no big difference. As Waksupi said, weigh them all, that will avoid voids and flyers, sort them by 1/10ths of a grain, what I do with a powder scale. I use Dutch Shultz shooting method, which is using 4 parts water, to one part water soluble cutting oil, Mobil met. I mix well, then soak my patch material, lay out flat with weight on it to dry in the sun. Water evaporates, and leaves just enough oil to get super consistent shot to shot. I wipe bore with one or two damp patches between shots. I also take a good pair of dial calipers when I go to buy patch material, to make sure it is the thickness I want. Pillow ticking is all over the place in thickness.

[Driver man]

I shoot cast 457 RB in my 1858 Remington and have tried all manner of tricks trying to improve accuracy. Comparing cast to swaged,different lubes etc etc etc. The only thing i found to make even a small difference over all was weighing them and loading them as uniform as possible. I have shot 1000's of these balls over the years and have settled on a formula that works for me. I look forward to your results.

[Hellgate]

I would think that tumbling them enough to beat the sprue into the ball would still make an out of round ball. The LEE molds tend to cut the sprue flush with the ball leaving a flat spot whereas the Lyman molds tend to leave the sprue that sticks up. You could buy a set of flush cutters for about $3 at Harbor Freight and cut the Lyman balls more flush. I agree that weighing them will do more for accuracy than tumbling.

[725]

Load 'em with the sprue up and it'll be gone by the time the ram rod puts it in the chamber.

[Toymaker]

Hmmmmm. Koger, our trails must have crossed, many times it would appear. I use Dutch's system too, but 7:1. Unfortunately I won't make Friendship this year and I'm going to miss it. Miss the Flea Market bargains too. Send an X downrange for me. Keep yer powder dry.

[Hanshi]

I tumble all the balls I cast - I cast everything I shoot - and it does make them smooth and round. In the past I used my, now 42 year old, Thumbler Tumbler. Recently, however, the balls come out black with "powder" and have to be cleaned; they look as if they've been rolled in soot. They still look good but for the black. Cleaning the tumbler drum until it's "white glove clean" makes no difference and the ball still comes out dirty. I've started using my vibrating "tumbler" which doesn't leave them dirty. After the balls from the rotary tumbler are washed and cleaned they are slate gray but clean. Those from the vibrating tumbler are still shiny.

Any ideas from you other members as to what the TT's problem is? Just a guess but is it possible the rubber drum liner in wearing away from dry rot or something similar? I'm sure it's possible to replace the liner if that item is still available. I don't know what the cost would be. When I bought it in the early 1970s it was only $38 total. Since then I've had to replace the drive belt and that's about all.

[Fly]

Hanshi I don,t know the dia of your drum, but Harbor Freight has a replacement rubber drum
for there tumblers.
Fly

[dondiego]

You can order new Thumler drum too.

[dagger dog]

I also take a good pair of dial calipers when I go to buy patch material, to make sure it is the thickness I want. Pillow ticking is all over the place in thickness.

Just took my mike to the local wally world and picked up a yard of the blue striped pillow ticking at 0.018", they had a brown stripe that went 0.013" and some plain @ 0.015, all 3 were 100% cotton, and you couldn't tell the difference by feel.

[GARD72977]

I tumble mine in a Thumblers Tumbler for a while to make them look better. You still need to be able to see where the sprue was. If there is a void in the ball it is likely near the sprue and accuracy will be better with that part up.

Just my $.02

[Newtire]

I would think that tumbling them enough to beat the sprue into the ball would still make an out of round ball. The LEE molds tend to cut the sprue flush with the ball leaving a flat spot whereas the Lyman molds tend to leave the sprue that sticks up. You could buy a set of flush cutters for about $3 at Harbor Freight and cut the Lyman balls more flush. I agree that weighing them will do more for accuracy than tumbling.Those Harbor Freight flush cutters are tough little buggers. I used a set to shorten .32 maxi-balls into a real short little boolit. The base was so flat, you'd have sworn it was cast that way.

[Sharpsman]

Order swaged balls from Hornady! Save your time casting to more time shooting!!

[scattershot]

I've done it,used a small rock tumbler.Worked the sprue right into the ball.Perfectly round,no issues.Me, too. No issues. The benefit is, you don't have to worry about sprue up or down, because there isn't one.Just noticed the thread is two years old. Did you try it?

[OnHoPr]

I will mention a bit of an opinion on this thread. Though, I do not have the medals or experience as many here. I also don’t shoot competition, but I really like accurate hunting loads. I have Speer and Hornady .490 RBs as well as the Lee mold. One thing about swaged and cast is the mold line and sprue. It has been a cliché that RBs cast should be loaded sprue up or down. Without a loading block this can take a concentrated second or two to align at the muzzle. Another point that I will throw in is that I have been using a TC Encore which has a fast twist and clichéd to not shoot RB’s well. I could not get the results that I desired with the swaged RBs. Whereas I did get good results with the Lee even with slight off alignment of the part line, go figure. These tests were done with many different patches, lubes, and powder charges. Powder charges ranged from 90 to 110 gr of Pdex Select, Pdex, 777, Shockly’s Gold, and American Powder. I did acquire less than 1” groups in one ragged hole @ 50 yds benched with the Lee and 100 gr of Pdex Select.

So, I thought about tumbling them smooth to try to get the group size down a bit. Since it is a faster twist barrel my figuring was to get a smooth ball with no part line and a very negligible sprue mark to try to increase the accuracy. I cast the Lee .311 WWWD for buckshot and tumble them in a rock tumbler for tighter patterns. As Hanshi mentioned they can get rough and dirty like. So, I took a large glass pickle jar and epoxied two 6” aluminum nails on each side in the jar to create the gentle tumbling action. I then used water and actual tumbling soap lubricant to tumble the Lees. They turn out like glass black pearls and the sprue can take some looking to find. It might enhance downrange velocity(??). These shoot totally different than what the non-tumbled balls shoot like. Go figure something pretty as a black pearl to a part line and a sprue. The diameter changed just a bit as well. But, I really didn’t get to test it extensively. So, basically my post comes down to if you are going to try this don’t make just 10 or 20 make 300 or 400 hundred and do extensive testing with different powders, patches, lubes with no wind conditions.

[Hanshi]

Hanshi I don,t know the dia of your drum, but Harbor Freight has a replacement rubber drum
for there tumblers.
Fly



Old thread but thanks for the info; I just might do that.

[fiberoptik]

Make a ball rounder like this.
http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160618/74f5fe401c4afbc2f468b51d8cdf6a4d.jpghttp://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160618/85a7a66e9a5e57edf9e7fb9a57dd69f2.jpg


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[Newtire]

Threw some Lymans in my vibrating tumbler yesterday and they all came out very round! Only thing I'd watch out for is all the lead dust. Wouldn't want to breathe that stuff.