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Canadian caster85
08-29-2014, 06:22 AM
I'm looking for ideas about what the best velocity for white tail deer hunting would be with a 170gr cast .308 any thoughts are appreciated

milkman
08-29-2014, 06:31 AM
I try for a minimum of 1200 - 1400 fps at what ever range impact occurs.

Canadian caster85
08-29-2014, 06:53 AM
The range would be a max of 100-150 yards I hunt in broken woodlands mostly pine so LOS isn't much more than 100 yards in most places

Smoke4320
08-29-2014, 07:31 AM
My personal opinion only. if you can get to 1600-1700 fps accurately with an alloy that gives you some expansion you should be just fine
Last year I was lucky enough to harvest 2 with cast bullets
1 with 300 blkout and mil hec 159 HP going 1598 fps at approx 76 yds and 1 with a 458 socom and rcbs 300 gr going 1600 fps.
Both deer went less than 35 yds

pmer
08-29-2014, 07:44 AM
What cartridge and rifle are you using for hunting?

pworley1
08-29-2014, 09:45 AM
I my experience velocity doesn't seem to make much difference to the deer. Just joking. Anything above about 1200 should give you enough penetration to get the job done. Above that I would work for the most accurate load. Good luck with the deer.

Canadian caster85
08-29-2014, 11:08 AM
An old Remington 742 woods master in .308.. And yea I can get my velocity anywhere between 1200 and 2200 I would just rather not push my rounds to 2200 if 1500 would do since powder is difficult to find around here

milkman
08-29-2014, 12:36 PM
Popper
A cast projectile with a good meplat just doesn't need all that much velocity to kill cleanly. More velocity means a slower kill in many instances, they don't seem to bleed out as quickly. A mid weight 30 cal booit at that speed should exit on a broadside shot even with a large bone struck. It really doesn't matter how much energy the boolit still has when it hits the tree on the back side of the deer.

jhalcott
08-29-2014, 01:47 PM
Some areas of the country REQUIRE a minimum energy level to LEGALLY "harvest" game! I KNOW from experience the law makers do NOT hunt! I have taken deer in areas that do not have the minimum laws as in my home state, with ammo MUCH less potent than legal here. Make sure the area where you HUNT allows the ammo you use. I have killed deer with 135 grain bullets at about 1000 fps muzzle velocity and 200 grain bullets at 2000 fps. All worked well, just do NOT expect a cast bullet to act like a jacketed one.

MBTcustom
08-29-2014, 03:29 PM
You have a way with words milkman, and you are very correct.
canadian caster, check out the link in my signiture line if you have any questions on the effectiveness of cast lead at slower FPS.

My recomendation to you would be to mix your WW alloy 50/50 with pure lead, and drop them on the bench. Use a boolit with a flat nose on it, or file a flat nose on what you have available to you.
Use a GC.
Work up an accurate load that will hump that boolit along at 1800FPS.
That will kill anything not wearing armor plate out to 150 yards.
You can thank me when you pile deer up in your freezer.

The only way I can think of to improve on the advice I just gave you would be to send that rifle to JES and have it bored out to 358 Winchester. Use the RCBS 35-200-FN, and enjoy the simplicity of having all the gun you will ever need for almost any creature on any continent on earth. Best cast lead combination I have found to date for almost anything I can think of (I keep saying almost because I just don't know if I would shoot at an African elephant with it, but that's a stupid idea in the first place.)

Brett Ross
08-29-2014, 04:13 PM
I can’t add much here, other than these guys know what they are speaking of. I took my first cast boolit deer last year, using all I learned here (8x56R, 220gr lee, soft tipped, at 1700 FPS). My plan for this season had not changed much, until the state of Iowa decided to eliminate the only season center fire rifle was legal. I have now changed gears and will try for a deer, using cast in my 45 Colt Ruger BH. Tim Kindly helped me out by making me a hollow pointing tool. I have not had a chance to try it out yet but hope to soon.

Tony

quilbilly
08-29-2014, 06:37 PM
I try for a minimum of 1200 - 1400 fps at what ever range impact occurs.
Ditto.

Larry Gibson
08-29-2014, 09:55 PM
A 170 gr cast bullet intended for the 30-30 at 1850 - 1950 fps will fit your needs extremely well. I suggest the Lyman 311041 in particular.

Larry Gibson

singleshot
08-29-2014, 11:25 PM
I agree with goodsteel on the 35 cal idea....if you have some $$ burning a hole in your pocket. :kidding:

pls1911
09-26-2014, 04:35 PM
Larry Gibson is spot on.
Any of the following at about 1900 fps work fine with proper placement.
The Lyman 31141, RanchDog 165, Seaco 160, RCBS 150 or 180 will all perform fine in most rifles.
While success can be had in about any caliber, the 30-30 and .308 certainly rank among the best.

popper
09-27-2014, 07:11 PM
1200 - 1400 fps at what ever range impact occurs. I misinterpreted what you said. Your thought & mine agree, ~ 1k #-ft @ POI should do the job. I guess a bigger hole helps but my ? was how much energy (gets away from the cal & style ?) does it take to get through the stuff in front of the critical area.

quilbilly
09-27-2014, 07:22 PM
I misinterpreted what you said. Your thought & mine agree, ~ 1k #-ft @ POI should do the job. I guess a bigger hole helps but my ? was how much energy (gets away from the cal & style ?) does it take to get through the stuff in front of the critical area.
Not as much as you might think on a deer type animal. I terminal ballistics tested a 165 gr RNGC (what I like in my 308) in my 30/30 a few years back at 40 yards and a muzzle velocity of 1550 fps. and got 17-19" of penetration in compacted wet phone books which included a piece of plywood an inch in to simulate a bone. From that I would think the terminal velocity of 1200-1400 FPS is spot on.

jhalcott
09-27-2014, 11:52 PM
I'm one of those anal types. I test MY loads before I hunt with them. A 20-24" stack of wet phone books or old magazines at the longest distance you will shoot at gives an idea of what to expect when you do hunt. Most of MY cast .30 caliber loads go about 2000 fps in rifles and about 1700 from a 14" Contender.

popper
09-29-2014, 11:04 AM
Can't disagree with any previous comments. Reading through (hunting) posts on this forum, I see the same question repeatedly. Making ft-# calc. from the loads & results in many posts, it appears to me that 1000 ft-# muzzle is a good rule-of-thumb for deer at normal 50-250 yd. hunting to insure penetration to the vital area, considering 70% weight retention. The hunter then adjusts for his conditions, cal., boolit, etc. Maybe the 'lawmakers' aren't that far off? Lots of opinions about 'do I have enough gun for what I'm hunting' noobie question. The other choice would be to use or mimic reputable factory hunting loads for chosen caliber.

jhalcott
09-29-2014, 02:08 PM
I've done a LOT of depradation and "CULL" work. Calibers and FPE that was NOT legal for HUNTING was okay for this. I cleared a golf course of deer with a 7TC/U carbine using 175 grain CAST bullets to take 2 dozen deer. Some were head shot many were broadside thru the lungs. My velocity was just under 1100 fps. The meat was donated to a charity organization. I've used a 22-250 at other times, a 55 grain bullet at over 3500 fps does a LOT more damage than the above loads. It is more important to hit the VITALS than have lots of speed!

popper
09-29-2014, 04:55 PM
175@1100fps~= 850 ft-#. Not far off. Distance? Bone hits?

jaysouth
10-06-2014, 08:54 PM
What powder and charge for a 165 Ranch dog or 311041 in a .308 case has worked well for you. I have 4895, 3031, 2400 and H-335? Thanks

Redd508
10-07-2014, 11:09 PM
See this is what i love about this place. I came in tonite with the same question but for my 30/30. Thanks all.

NVScouter
10-08-2014, 07:34 PM
I have 2 more Mule deer tags so I played with my Ruger American Compact today. 29g of IMR 3031 and the LEE 160 .311 GC was chugging a long at 1700fps from my 20" barrel. I didn't shoot paper just guessed about 14" low at 150y and rang my clanger plate 5 times. Then shot a milk jug dead center at 200y holding about 20" high the rifle was sighted in at +2" @100y with 130g JHP 2575fps. Found a 112g reminant 8" into the dirt.

The only thing is that mold has never been great for me before so I started HPing it. It's also a TL and showed some leading after 15 rounds. I have the LEE 113 and 150 I need to try over that load but I'm out of .30 gas checks. So this season it's the spire point lead I guess.

Blanket
10-08-2014, 09:00 PM
i have killed several deer with a 1-15 180 grain 30 cal at 1600fps take for what is worth

birddog
10-08-2014, 09:46 PM
Accuracy is what counts, if you can't be confident with the load you have then you are already at a severe disadvantage. Think about this one for a moment, there are deer that have been taken with the 22 LR, 1260fps and 40gr lead
Charlie

Lead Fred
10-08-2014, 10:37 PM
Take a 200gr .308, size it down, paper patch it, and go as fast as you want.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bNHJjqZxpwQ

Bullshop
10-08-2014, 10:48 PM
Think about how effective a 22 LR is. In a rifle length barrel a HV 22 LR will clock about 1300 fps with a 40gn bullet. In a revolver that will drop to about 900 fps. You are shooting a 170gn boolit which is more than 4 times the weight of the 22 RF.
Your 170 boolit at 1300 fps would be kind of like 4 22 RF bullets impacting the same spot at the same time and you still have the advantage of a larger diameter boolit.

nanuk
10-09-2014, 03:07 AM
a 38spl with a 158gr boolit only goes about 800fps and has under 250ft/lbs

but talk to any RCMP Officer and I'll bet you they suggest you'd have no problem killing a deer out to 150 yds with one if you can dope the drop.

I know I wouldn't want to be catching one of them

NVScouter
10-09-2014, 06:41 AM
a 38spl with a 158gr boolit only goes about 800fps and has under 250ft/lbs

but talk to any RCMP Officer and I'll bet you they suggest you'd have no problem killing a deer out to 150 yds with one if you can dope the drop.

I know I wouldn't want to be catching one of them

well my testing of the 38 SPL and .357 Mag in short barrels tells me otherwise. A 158g at 800fps is only good for 6"-8" penitration at 50y. At 150y you better put that puppy in an eyeball.

For hunting you need to add in Murphey's Law. Not that it can't be done or hasn't been but should you.

BruceB
10-09-2014, 09:18 AM
I was within hearing distance when several RCMP officers fired about six round-nose .38s into a man from about four to six FEET.

It took him a LONG time to die.... several weeks, as I recall.

BAGTIC
10-09-2014, 09:37 AM
The 170 grain 30-30 bullet is much longer than the .22 bullets and has much greater sectional density so should penetrate deeper. Actually momentum density is a better indicator of penetration than is KE density.

BAGTIC
10-09-2014, 09:39 AM
What you shoot man or beast with is less important than where you hit them. Is it possible that RCMP are no better shots than most US cops?

NVScouter
10-09-2014, 12:06 PM
The 170 grain 30-30 bullet is much longer than the .22 bullets and has much greater sectional density so should penetrate deeper. Actually momentum density is a better indicator of penetration than is KE density.

not to mention the 130g 500fps advantage. I don't see what bringing up .22s has to do with it. I slaughter with a .22 at point blank and it's great. 20y head shots...sure but what does it have to do with ethical cast boolit hunting? Or was it brought up as a trajectory comparison?

NVScouter
10-09-2014, 12:10 PM
What you shoot man or beast with is less important than where you hit them. Is it possible that RCMP are no better shots than most US cops?
Until you exchange fire under stress of kill or be killed you may want to not judge others accuracy.

taco650
10-10-2014, 09:57 AM
An old Remington 742 woods master in .308.. And yea I can get my velocity anywhere between 1200 and 2200 I would just rather not push my rounds to 2200 if 1500 would do since powder is difficult to find around here

Will cast feed out of your 742 at those velocities?