Need help with .40 S&W load

[Blanco]

Here is the story....
I have been putting off getting my CCW license for quite a while.
A buddy is getting a class together and I decided to do it now.
My first problem is that none of my pistols were carry friendly all much too big.
I got a really good deal on a new S&W Shield in .40 S&W and decided to go shoot it this morning at he range.
I will say I was quite surprised by the little monster. The muzzle blast on this thing is just enormous :shock:
The recoil is pretty stout but not uncontrollable. I did find that it shot pretty consistently high and left.
I tried different grip, stance offhand off eye, all to no avail. When I got in from the range I started doing a bit of research.
Evidently I'm not the only person to have issues with the Shield. From what I read its all about gun and trigger control?
So I thunk... I bet a reduced load might help me a bunch. I only have 2 .40 molds 1 is the Lee 6 cav. TC 175 gr. The other is a 168 Gr. MP mold that makes a 168 Gr. Penta point. So I am on the lookout for a light weight bullet in .40 and a mold.
So here is where I need your help. What would a good shooting light practice load be for my little beastie? Who makes a light weight mold for .40? I have Tite Group, Unique, Power Pistol, CFE
Any experience with this that you would like to share ?

Thanks
Blanco

[Wayne Smith]

Were you shooting factory or reloads? If reloads,what were your loads? What reloading data manuals do you have on your shelf or reloading bench? Inquiring minds want to know.

[Blanco]

I was shooting a bit of everything.
Winchester White Box, Cabelas/Herters, CCI and my reloads Miha 168 Gr. Penta point coated. 6Gr. Unique.
At this point I think I need to shoot a reduced load and slowly work my way up as I perfect my technique.
I would like to find a nice 135/140 Gr slick sided mold for PC and a nice easy shooting load

[Toymaker]

Blanco, knowing what ammo you were shooting at what distance and how much high/left would help. The first time you shot it, was the first round, or first couple of rounds, closer to POA?

I use a SIG P229 and a Beretta PX4 Storm subcompact, both in 40 S&W. My load is a 180 grain JHP, or a 180 grain FMJ FN for practice, over 5.9 grains of 800X. It's fantastically accurate in the SIG. It's a little stout in the Beretta and I've thought of looking for a lighter load but I like the accuracy and don't really want to have two different .40 loads floating around. Haven't gotten around to trying cast in either yet.

[Blanco]

I started at 5 Yds. and went to 7 Yds.
It groups pretty much the same regardless of distance or load.
Matter of fact it was very consistently high and left.

[Bonz]

I tried just about every combination that I could think of to reduce recoil and improve accuracy. I finally gave up and sold my S&W .40 shield I truly believe that this pistol is just too small to be a .40 cal and that the striker fired trigger is completely different than the S&W 9mm Shield. The funny thing is that my favorite is my S&W 500 magnum 4" One of my carry guns is the Ruger LCR .357 which is a tad bigger than a S&W Shield but its just so easy to build custom rounds for it ;-)

[Jupiter7]

I've actually found that heavy boolits at low velocity are much easier to shoot in the .40. My current load is the mihec 190(drops 197gr WFN) over 5.5grs AA5. This is a touch over a starting load. Load runs about 830fps. About the same as shooting target load 45's. For defensive ammo you might wanna look at the Barnes stuff, all copper bullets weigh less.

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

I have the NOE 160gr RN
http://noebulletmolds.com/NV/product_info.php?cPath=39&products_id=227
there is a 150gr HP also...I prefer solids.
I'm not sure how much smaller you'd want to go? (a 40 cal round ball is 93 gr.)

Load it down til the action doesn't cycle, then go up til it does reliably.

I have a couple Taurus PT24/7 plastic pistols. One in 40 and one in 45.
The 45 with 230gr standard loads is quite the hand slapper !
The 40 with the 160gr and standard load is quite managable...YMMV.

btw, when I say standard load, that's typically near starting load in a Lyman manual.
Jon

[Blanco]

I may try a starter load with the 175 Gr. Lee TC and see how it acts?
What would you suggest for powder, slow or fast burn?
I would think a mild load of something like Bullseye or TG.
Maybee somewhere in the range of 3.5~4 g. ?
I dont have a load manual in front of me right now so just a guess...

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

well, all I can tell you is what I did with the NOE 160gr RN.
I used Red Dot, as I have a large quantity of it I got from a widow of a shotgunner who quit reloading in the late 1970's.

my notes say the 4.9gr (a published starting load) gave me sooted cases (a common problem with shotgun powders run below optimum pressure), the next size up on my Lee Disc measure dropped 5.2gr...that's what I went with.

I bet TG would be the powder to use.
Jon

[Blanco]

Since this pistol shoots consistently High left, and the fact that it is so small and difficult to control, the idea is to test some reduced loads to find what will work to fix the problems with the shooter.
Then work on increasing the load gradually and see if it helps to acclimate me to the full power loads.
Thats my thinking?

When I was almost out of ammo, I had loaded up my last 2 mags and was getting ready to shoot.
A guy and his wife started setting up in the booth next to me. I gave them a bit of time to do some shooting. I tapped the fellow on the shoulder and told him if he would give me about 2 minutes I could finish up. I told him I was shooting a short barreled pistol and that it had bad muzzle blast. after I cranked 1 round off they both backed out until I finished.

[claudesapp]

Here is a good article on light 40 loads: http://www.handgunsmag.com/ammo/ammunition_40lite_091806/

My standard light load is 165gr FMJ with 4.42gr Titegroup for ~900fps, or 4.55gr Unique gives me about 890fps

[Blanco]

Now that was VERY useful TYVM Claudesapp.
That gives me something to work with

[Toymaker]

Ok. Here's the things against you - 1)small, narrow grip - it's going to wiggle more than a nightcrawler. 2) short sight radius - the shorter it is the harder it is to sight. 3) three dot alignment on target - hard with a short sight radius + once properly aligned the POI is where the front dot is located, NOT the top of the post. 4) heavy trigger pull - probably around 6.5 to 7 lbs and it needs to be about 4.5.

Shooting high - try a powder with a longer pressure curve. This means a slower powder. Unique is dirty but a good place to start. You can't totally compensate for the loss in terminal impact but go with a heavier bullet to regain some. Both should cause the POI to drop.
Shooting left - it is either you or the sights. Shoot two handed off a steady rest. Even better, use a machine rest - our range has one and people are surprised at the results obtained from their "bad" pistols in the rest. If you're still left, adjust the sights - - hopefully the rear sight is adjustable for windage. A special tool may be required.
It appears you can shoot at less than 25 yards - do so. Be reasonable in your expectations and shoot at 7 - 10 yards.
These are some of the things that have worked for me with other pistols. I'm not familiar with the Shield but hopefully something will work for you.

[Blanco]

I think I have a small Hogue slip on that may help. Quite a few people reccommend Talon grips. I ordered a couple of Pierce Grip Mag extensions and that shold help also.
I understand what you are getting at with bullet weight and small charge. Correct me if i'm wrong but won't a lighter boolit naturally shoot lower to POA?

[Boyscout]

Using the same Lee 401-175 TC, I have been loading it with 4.8 gn Unique and WSP, seated to 1.125 COL. I have run them through an S&W M&P and a Kahr CM40. Accuracy is good and it functioned flawlessly. Recoil was mild in the M&P and a little "snappy" out of the Kahr CM40. I stayed within the recommended loads in the Lyman Cast Lead Manual.

[leeggen]

Send an email to M&P and see what they recommed as to weight of bullit for your pistol. My PX4 40 recommended 180 gr. Bet it would work for yours. Lee TL 401-175.
CD

[Blanco]

I have started working up a ladder loading for .40
Lee 175 TC Powder Coated. I had a look at my Lyman Manual lowest starting load with Unique I saw was 5.2 Gr I started out with 4.9 and then 5.2 I'm using Unique first because it's what is in the Loadmaster already.
I think 4.9 should cycle everything..... HMMMM I might even try 4.5 just for giggles
I wlll see how these work in the Lil Beastie