Hollow Point Casting Technique [Archive]

rugerman1

01-28-2008, 09:52 PM

A little while back I bought a 454484 mould off of a friend here at CB and had Buckshot hollow point it:
http://i139.photobucket.com/albums/q299/sawrm1/Jan72008002.jpg
My first results were dismal and I decided I needed to add a little tin.So my next batch,I added about 1% tin to my WW+range scrap alloy.I cast these up today"
http://i139.photobucket.com/albums/q299/sawrm1/Jan282008003.jpg
http://i139.photobucket.com/albums/q299/sawrm1/Jan282008001.jpg
The mould was throughly cleaned and up to temperature,but I was still having trouble getting "perfect" boolits.I varied my casting technique as far as speed of production & pin removal timing.
What do you find works best for your hollow point casting?

45nut

01-28-2008, 10:06 PM

I'd sure like to see some specific tips!

cbrick

01-28-2008, 10:17 PM

rugerman1,

In all probablity its the HP "pin" that's too cool. A good HP nose with a too cool pin is impossible regardless of how proper the mould temp is.

I've been known to keep the pin near (not in) the flame of a propane torch set with a low flame.

Rick

Pavomesa

01-28-2008, 10:31 PM

I agree with Cbrick and for a pin that large, the situation is increased. I've been known to just stick the pin in the molten lead for a ten count and then wipe it off and start casting. This method will guarantee your pin is about the same temp as your mold.

However, even though some of those bullets aren't cosmetically perfect, I'll bet they shoot DANG GOOD.

rugerman1

01-28-2008, 10:31 PM

Rick,
I was thinking of using a sterno can.What flame does sterno give off?

tanstafl10

01-28-2008, 10:46 PM

I have had more success with a 257 cal mould done by Buckshot running the lead hotter than usual. No thermometer here. I just trial and error until I get good nose fill out. Mine is a spire point and can be finicky(SP).

A 311 291 HP and a 358156 HP are run the same way and I like the results. I use WW w/ a little linotype melted in for these two and I have been using pure linotype in the 257 mould. With pure linotype, I flux a bit more often, especially when the bullet noses go to pot.

I think I got an image attached to this to show the final outcome of the 257. It is not the best image, but i am still trying to get the hang of the camera.

Do not know if this is specific enough 45NUT, but best I can do at this time and place. I have found that I must run HP's hotter than the other moulds. But I am Not an expert, I am still learning that is why I do not post too often.

Keep trying Rugerman1, best advice I saw here one time was "do not be afraid of mistakes, they can be remelted"

beagle

01-28-2008, 10:57 PM

First off, you'll never get completely round, perfectly formed, circular cavities with HP moulds and I've cast a bunch.

Your mould is getting plenty hot...in fact too hot from the looks of the bands not completely filled out. I'd slow down some until you get good, filled out bands.

I'd also bevel the top where the mould halves come together just to insure complete venting.

As I mentioned, you seldom get perfect cavities with HPs...especially after sizing. That's why we've developed the "nosepicker" TP. Basically, this is a TP with a pin of a diameter that fits inside the cavity (very tightly but not too tight). This only has to be maybe 1/8" long.

This TP accomplishes two things. First, it centers the bullet and second, it opens the cavity and bumps it to a slightly concave and perfectly round shape and eliminates any flaws in the cavity/nose since there is always a slight taper at the base of the TP pin.

Very easily made from round aluminum stock using a electruc drill to spin the stock and a file as a cutter. Maybe a 15 minute job./beagle

nemo

01-28-2008, 10:58 PM

SOMETIMES a pin has cutting fluid ,that has lard in it. Lard & suflur draw heat out of the tool,and are hard to clean. Try alcohol some heat lead pencil.Thats what I did when I made a howelod point for a Lyman .357 double cast 2 peace mold j358624A took a long time and a lot of cleaning,Your bloots look good. Good job Buckshot. nemo

dakotashooter2

01-28-2008, 11:05 PM

cbrick

01-28-2008, 11:18 PM

Those that recommend casting HP's at a higher heat said the same thing I did. Except for a higher pot or higher mould temp simply run the pin hotter. I agree, those bullets look like they cast plenty hot. All of the wrinkles are at the pin, its the pin thats too cool.

Never tried sterno and don't know how hot the flame is but it sounds like a good idea to try.

Rick

colbyjack

01-28-2008, 11:33 PM

thats awesome i want one for my .45 acp. maybe ill get a 230 gr rn and have it done. -chris

cbrick

01-28-2008, 11:40 PM

colbyjack, then you'll love this:

Lyman 45 cal Devastaor HP 200 gr (http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpage.exe/showproduct?saleitemid=583831&t=11082005)

Glen

01-29-2008, 01:01 AM

To get good high-quality HPs, I have found that it helps to do the following:

1. Cast hot (about 50 degrees warmer than normal)
2. Cast fast (2 pours a minute is good, 3 if I'm really cookin')
3. Strike the sprue earlier than normal (you've got a heat sinc cooling the bullet in the HP pin so the bullet will solidify sooner than what the sprue tells you)
4. Do NOT inspect bullets as you're casting (this just slows you down and lets the pin cool off)

Just cast fast, and spend as little time as possible with the HP pin outside of the blocks.

Pavomesa

01-29-2008, 03:54 PM

That HP seems exceptionally deep. Shallowing it a bit may help. When I remove the pin I usually rest it on the top lip of the pot (the tip under the spout arm) and it generally stays just the right temp. You don't want it too hot either or the cavity will distort when you remove it.

No, the tip is the right depth. It should go back about about 2/3 of the way. Look at any Lyman HP mold and you'll see they all run deep.

Everyone is making something really hard out of this simple issue. Just heat the damn HP plug to the lead temp by sticking in into the molten metal for a few seconds and then cast away. If you cast bullets fast like I do, the mold and HP plug will stay the same of nearly same temp and all will work perfectly. I've made thousands of them this way with no problems.

Cranking your lead up to higher than normal temps just means your mold is going to get too hot, too fast and start producing frosted bullets. (Another bad idea)

MT Chambers

01-29-2008, 04:04 PM

I cast many great looking Hollow points by altering my casting procedure alot;
a) it is the only bullet I cast that i use a bottom pour
b) turn up the heat
c) remove bullet from mold with the pin still in it, the very last thing you do is pull bullet(hot) off pin and quickly return pin to mold and pour, you can actually take your time until you pull the pin from the hot bullet...oh and one other tip...wear gloves.

GLL

01-29-2008, 06:06 PM

I am with Glen on this one. Although I increase the temp a bit it is the speed that makes the difference for me! Keep that pin hot by casting as fast as you can. For me a bored out RCBS ladle is the only way to cast HP bullets ! I pour over the pot with plenty of excess alloy flowing off the mould. Do not even look at the bullets once you start getting good ones.

Jerry

These are from moulds also modified by Buckshot.

http://www.fototime.com/55F07C1E821F1A5/standard.jpg

http://www.fototime.com/764FE0DF38E319D/standard.jpg

rugerman1

01-29-2008, 06:33 PM

Great boolits and pics Jerry :drinks:
Today,I cast by using my no-so-instant-start propane torch to heat the pin.Better than yesterday's effort,but not as good as I want:
http://i139.photobucket.com/albums/q299/sawrm1/Jan292008001.jpg
I picked up some sterno and another propane torch at china-mart today to try out next time.I want to make a mount so I can set the pin on it and be heated during the boolit removal step.
I cast up a few Lee 41 TL's after I got tired of fighting the propane torch,ain't 6-cavs wonderful!:mrgreen:
http://i139.photobucket.com/albums/q299/sawrm1/Jan292008003.jpg

fourarmed

01-29-2008, 06:33 PM

Another thing I find helps is to force feed the alloy. Use a dipper or press the sprue plate tightly against the pour spout, and hold the feed open for several seconds.

Glen

01-29-2008, 07:43 PM

Oooohhh GLL, those are PURDY!

MT Gianni

01-29-2008, 08:13 PM

Nice bullets GLL. An easy way to keep the pin hot is a wire loop over the lead pot. When you pull it set it in the alloy. It will never be overheated and it makes for fast casting. Gianni

35remington

01-29-2008, 08:17 PM

I noticed the same thing Beagle did.

Those bands on your HP's look heavily frosted and sunken. Unless my internet eyes fail me, I'd guess if you measured with a micrometer the bands would turn out to be subcaliber. Oftentimes these will be frosted and sunken on one side and not the other, showing irregularly shaped bands. Yours might be this way all the way around. If the band fillout is good on one side of the bullet and poor on the other you might have lopsided, unbalanced bullets.

Check that out first. The HP's look okay from what I can see, but admittedly there's no closeups.

HORNET

02-05-2008, 01:35 PM

I was looking at the pictures of your boolits and it looks to me like the mold might be trapping gas at the pin. You might try taking a small fine-grit polishing stone and stoning the edges where the groove for the pin meets the face of the cavity block. ALL YOU NEED IS TO BREAK THE SHARP EDGE...DO NOT OVERDO IT! I use a small square stone and set a corner into the groove and slide it back and forth a little, just enought that I can see a small line at the conner. It has helped with every HP mold that I've tried it on. Good luck

kjg

03-19-2008, 06:59 AM

Well being reletively new can someone tell me how I can reach buck shot fella have a few idea's Ilike to toss at him thanks, kjg

cbrick

03-19-2008, 11:15 AM

kjg,

At the top of the page click on members list, look up Buckshot and send him a PM (private message).

canyon-ghost

04-20-2008, 12:28 AM

Not using a custom mould or anything but, I have cast some with a ladle and a simple two cavity Lyman mould for 38. I found that to keep everything the right temp, that I had to let the lead get hotter than usual and cast fast enough to only lay the pin down and drop the boolits, then pick it up and re-install. When you pour the mould full and let the alloy cool- get ready to drop them and twist that pin until it moves. Pour, wait a minute, move over the towel, twist the pin, pull it and drop the boolits. I mean I twist it to loosen it, not just pull it. You've probably got that figured out.

canyon-ghost

04-20-2008, 12:30 AM

Also doesn't hurt to smoke the mould with a match, or soot from a candle.

Ramslammer

04-25-2008, 05:53 AM

G'Day All
I cast a lot of hollow points for wallaby shooting and I always cast hot and fast. This works with 357 and 44 molds but I don't know about the smaller stuff.
Juddy

ra_balke

04-28-2008, 10:49 PM

If your bullets are not filling out, first thing yu need to do is make sure yur mould is good and clean. Use brake cleaner, and a tooth brush.

Next, get a #2 lead pencil, and pencil in the sharp corners.

Next, pour the lead in, and give the mould a good tap with lots of hot lead in the feeder puddle. Once the lead "learns" where the corners are, the bullets will fill out fine.

As for your core pin, well, I have my share of problems with core pins, but I solved your problem, by keeping the pin hot, and getting it good and blackened with a wood match.

Ghugly

05-09-2008, 02:21 PM

Sometimes ignorance is bliss. Buckshot was kind enough to hollow-point a 429421 for me (the man is an artist). Not knowing that it was suppose to be hard, I just attached my handles to the mold, heated the lead (my alloy is 10-1 wheel weights to radiator solder), cast about 6 or so to warm up the mold, and cast about 100 or so before moving on to another mold. I ended up with about the same reject rate that I always do, and most of them from the base being less than perfect. I didn't even clean the mold before using it.

Other than removing and replacing the core pin, it casts the same as it always did. It was a wonderful, old mold that dropped beautiful boolits. Now it is a wonderful, old mold that drops beautiful, hollow-pointed boolits.

kingstrider

07-16-2008, 07:11 AM

Another awesome thread, I'm expecting the Lyman 429640 Devastator mold today and will try some of these tips tomorrow!

Handgunr

07-16-2008, 01:33 PM

Good post guys......

I have several HP moulds and I feel your pain......

Glen and Rick are correct in respect to these, as well as several other good points and methods.

I use the same "pin dipping" method that Pavomesa recommended. The moulds with the thinner pins, like the #429421HP, and the #358156HP, need more, or faster attention when it comes to pin cooling. The Lyman Devastators with thicker pins, although they don't vary quite as much, they afford a little more leeway I guess.

As I'm casting, I just keep a close eye on the shape of the bullets being dropped. Once I start to see irregularities, or wrinkles starting to form, I momentarily stop and place the pin in the melt for a couple seconds. The mould itself at those times, is, like Glen mentioned, running hotter than really need be, so it can afford to sit for those few seconds while the pin plays "catch up".

Hope this helps,
Bob

kingstrider

07-18-2008, 11:20 AM

Well I'm still learning but bought the Lyman 429640 mold and tried casting for the first time this morning. I must say I really appreciate all the tips you guys have given me over the last few weeks and that I'm officially hooked!

I didn't time myself but it took about 2 hours to make a little over 200 boolits using a 20:1 alloy. After culling the rejects and doing the math, about 65% were keepers while the rest were rejects. Of the rejects, most had problems with the nose while several had incomplete fillout around the gas check.
http://i159.photobucket.com/albums/t138/kingstrider/casting1.jpg

Looking at the keepers, about 20% had flash around the hollowpoint like the one shown on its side in the photo below. I figure I can trim these with a knife but am wondering why only some are coming out like this. Any suggestions on how to fix this problem or how to limit the number of rejects next time?
http://i159.photobucket.com/albums/t138/kingstrider/casting3.jpg

skid1945

07-29-2008, 08:17 PM

i would like to try to cast bullits for my .50 tradition is ther anyone our ther that makes molds for this cal black powder i think a 250 to 300 gr my email adress is norvil mosbroker@hotmail .com im new at this yours look great i'm new at this

LET-CA

08-03-2008, 12:34 PM

- - - SNIP SNIP SNIP - - -
Looking at the keepers, about 20% had flash around the hollowpoint like the one shown on its side in the photo below. I figure I can trim these with a knife but am wondering why only some are coming out like this. Any suggestions on how to fix this problem or how to limit the number of rejects next time?
http://i159.photobucket.com/albums/t138/kingstrider/casting3.jpg

I had the same problem with mine until I figured out that my pin was not prefectly centered when I twisted the pin to tighten it to the mould. I now only turn the locking screw enough to hold it in place and the extra flashing has pretty much disappeared.

On a separate note, these are great shooting bullets. I recently purchased a Ruger Super Redhawk and they're wonderfully accurate over a pile of H110.

All the best.

Heavy lead

08-03-2008, 12:56 PM

Bad Karma

08-09-2008, 11:40 PM

I have two very old Ideal .357 hollow point moulds. I get a fin on the hollow point sometimes but not so much that I'm gonna toss it in the remelt can.

One thing that is an interesting experiment that I did was to put a BB in the mould (steel BB) in the mould. What I get is a really neat boolit that has a BB in the nose that's about 15% heavier. I wonder if it'll effect expansion?

buck1

08-10-2008, 10:45 PM

Or just stir the pot with the pin. I have heard od the devistators working well that way...Buck

shooter2

08-29-2008, 08:30 AM

I started as a ladle caster and still do it that way. I think it works especially well with HP's. I use a Rowell bottom pour ladle and let plenty of the alloy flow over the mould. My bullets are generally well frosted and filled out. The reject rate is low. Certainly less than10%. Beagle's advice is good as always.

Maximilian225

08-31-2008, 01:08 PM

I have a lyman 452374 Devastator and the way I run it is with the pot on about 800 - 850 with Straight WW.
I use a bottom pour and fill the mold with the sprue touching the spout. Than a Pretty good sized puddle on the sprue. The quickest way I have found to keep the pin in the mold takes three taps. One. Cut the sprue. Two, open the handles just a little and tap the the bolt. The pin falls out at this point on the left side of my towel. Open the handles the rest of the way and tap again, bullets fall on the right side of my towel. Close blocks, reinsert pin. Repeat.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=7691&d=1212546640

As to your flash. Check the retaining screw on the bottom the pin locks under. It may not be tight. Small flash will go away when you size the top punch will flatten it.

:castmine:

jefats

09-02-2008, 03:36 PM

REDTAIL

09-15-2008, 01:09 AM

QUESTION? with cast hollow point bullets made of linotype being a hard alloy will they expand as a hollow point should, or will they just penetrate the game and not expand like a regular hp would could someone explain this to me as i am new to casting my own bullets

Tippet

06-26-2009, 03:45 AM

fredj338

06-26-2009, 10:30 AM

Maybe this is a bit off topic but......with hollow points, can you get an accurate BHN using the LBT tester by turning the bullet upside down? That's the only way I can see you can do the testing.

Thanks all

Not reliably. You can file the base smooth & try, but I use any solid mold & throw a bullet or two just for testing.

fredj338

06-26-2009, 10:34 AM

I know this thread is a little old, but still pertinent. I got a Lyman Devistator the other day, can't wait to try it out. The boolit itself is reputed to have excellent expansion. I beieve it was designed around the fact that so many people these days use straight WW for casting.

Hope this helps.
-T

PS Kevin are you getting all this? :mrgreen:
I have the 45acp & 44mag Dev. molds. They will expand w/ straight WW, but in a very narrow vel. window. You'll have better results w/ 50/50 mix of tape & clip ww or clip ww & pure lead. Cast 50/50, the 45 comes out a bit over 200gr, which is better IMO, & expands well @ 800fps-about 875fps. Then the nose starts to blow off.

Tippet

06-26-2009, 10:43 AM

fredj338

06-26-2009, 04:25 PM

You're saying mix half tape weights and half clip weights? Actually thats about how it comes, I get a bucketfull at a time from my local tire shop. I didn't realize they were made of different alloys.

Yep, the tape wts. are almost pure lead, very soft. The clip ww have antimony to harden them & a tiny bit, if any tin. Mixed together, they can be water dropped to get them back close to where straight clip ww are. Cast 50/50 for LHP & they expand pretty well w/ little leading to 1200fps.

Tippet

07-05-2009, 03:07 PM

hey having this thread in two different forums is problematic

Bearsdad

05-23-2018, 11:13 AM

[QUOTE=ra_balke;330695]If your bullets are not filling out...

I've found that pouring fast and at a slight angle along with rapidly tapping the corner of the mold while the sprue is still barely cooled helps to fill any voids. I use a wooden 'bat' that is about 12" X 2" at the business end and I tap gently and rapidly. It seems to have cured my problem.

beagle

05-25-2018, 09:54 PM

I'm going with Glen on this one...especially with a big volume single cavity like the 454484. Cast as fast as you can and dump the bullet. In about ten casts the pin will heat up. Then you can slow down a bit. Throw one, wait until the sprue frosts, turn and remove pin and drop bullet, repour and repeat. Do this unless the sprue plate starts to smear. If that happens, clean and drop back on your casting rate just a tad. Might go with sprue frosting and count 1-2-3 and then drop. Once you get the rhythm, you'll get well filled out bullets and the pin will remove very easily. Then, you know you're stashing away some bullets./beagle