Gun show blues

[Thumbcocker]

Went to a gun show yesterday. I have been going to this same one for over 20 years. Things just seem different. Its not just the Pakistani knives and beef jerky, I don't blame anyone for trying to make an honest buck, but the feel is different. The crowd is old, I am getting older and things are changing. I made a good trade on a pistol I didn't need for another pistol I didn't need. Continuing my search for the perfect pistol to pack around the farm. I don't know if I will ever find that pistol but the search used to be fun. Now it just seems like I have a lot of pistols that I don't shoot very much.

There were some bright spots, handling a Colt New Service, pretty girls in sun dresses and saying hi to vendors who have become friends but there was a pall in the air. Some of the guns have been on tables for years and the vendors are getting on up in years and you can tell that the show is more to them then selling a gun or two, it is a reason to keep going. My favorite Ruger dealer had a total of 12 single actions on a 40' table. Plastic pistols and tiny pistols to carry around in case you need to shoot someone are the all the rage. Black rifles that will probably never be shot past 50 yard and tactical, milspec, covert, stealth, Special forces, spetznats etc. is the order of the day. I know it is all market driven and don't expect the economy to bend to my whim but the change is uncomfortable to me.

I have never bought any gun because I am afraid. If peace love brotherhood and veganism broke out tomorrow I would still shoot my pistols because shooting pistols makes me happy. I feel like we are an endangered species. Many of us are getting older and I am feeling marginalized. We have good guns and good memories and our guns and memories used to mean something. Now I am not so sure. I suppose that not having anyone to leave my good stuff to plays a part but there are other things that I just can't put my finger on. I know that change is the only constant in life. Maybe I am mourning the loss of part of my self or maybe I am mourning the changes that make me uncomfortable.

Our society is becoming ever more urban in outlook and demographics and the days when rural values were more common seem to be a thing of the past. Watching a farm kid come in and peel off grimy bills for a gun that he would use to put meat on the table and learn shooting and maybe loading with used to be common. Now that age group gravitates toward AR's and cheap pistols. Their money so it is there business but something seems lost along the way.

I used to like to watch the veterans come in and pick up the Garands. Their back would straighten, their hands would hold the rifle exactly as the drill sergeant told them to 40 then 50 than 60 years ago. You could watch the years fall away and see a time when that piece of walnut and steel was a life preserver to a scared 19 year old kid in a hole a long way from home. They might not tuck in their shirt tail or remember what day of the week it was but they remembered how to hold that rife. You don't see them so much any more. Change is inevitable but I don't have to like it
'
Thanks for letting me vent.

[jcwit]

Yes, things are changing and not necessarily for the better.

[doc1876]

I knew I can speak for most of us here, we feel your pain. I ain't sure what happened, but I was 17 and full of vigor when I went to bed last night, now I am 58 and sore and beat up all over this morning!! ( I went to bed alone too, if there had been someone there, I could see this happening!)

[Plate plinker]

Not many great deals at the shows these days unless I'm buying accessories then the sellers seem willing to combine and fudge a little bit more.

[Love Life]

It's generational change. We grew up in a world of plastic guns, so that is what we buy. Some of us still lust after blued steel and walnut as well.

To me, it's all in the eye of the beholder. I give the same respect and admiration for a well built AR or tactical-ish long range rifle as I do for a finely figured walnut stocked rifle with mile deep bluing. Some guns have an appeal as a no nonsense tool. Glocks do it for me. They are part plastic and designed to look like a brick, but what they do (and very well I might add) adds an allure for me.

A McMillian stocked heavy barrel rifle built with pride and quality components also trips my trigger just as much as a pe-64 Winchester or a nice K98.

However, cheap is cheap. So the bargain basement Kel-Tecs and HI-Points do nothing for me. Same as the cheaply made nylon holsters and carry stuff.

Quality is what I gravitate towards, regardless of the materials or outward appearance.

As to gunshows, I stopped going years ago because they morphed from great places to be where good conversation was had along with decent deals and selection into cheap 3rd rate flea markets with to much non shooting related stuff and cheaply made goods.

I feel you are right in the ambiance has changed for the worse, and on both sides of the table.

[smkummer]

Internet has changed everything. Sellers and buyers come together. If your a seller, the 24/7 gun show is available for much cheaper than table rent, gas and hotels if needed. If your a buyer, much much more chance of finding exactly what you want. That is not going to change so if gun enthusiasts don't adapt, then prepare to loose out. The older crowd was influenced by the westerns, the middle crowd was influenced by Dirty Harry and the younger crowd is influence by what ever tac cool items are featured on TV and in the news.

[Love Life]

The younger crowd just spent the last decade+ involved in 2 police actions and are influenced by the weapons used in theater. No different than any other group that lived through war and police actions.

However, all the tacticool stuff is a bit old. All a good M4 needs is a flashlight mounted...maybe. All the other 6 lbs of stuff people hang off them is a bit ridiculous.

My M4 with grenade launcher, Acog, Surfire, and PEQ2 was an unbalanced and overweight firearm.

My personal gun is bone stock with iron sights and is light, maneuverable, and handy.

[Lance Boyle]

Another sadness is I find the quality put into the guns just isn't the same. Frankly the stuff Rem/Marlin puts out today is a pretty shabby product. Way too many mistakes going out the door. I realize that there were mistakes in the old days and there were bargain priced market targeted guns for a hundred years as well.

Look at an older blued and wood firearm and look at the comparable product today; Sure the computer does accurate machining but no one does the polishing and bluing like the old days it seems. With that CNC manufacturing no one seems to actually check to see if the parts fit right and work right. The customer will check that later. Wood stock finishes are sprayed on as they pass on the meat hook conveyor belt.

I'm not even that old and I feel a loss.

[Finster101]

I quit going when you could seemingly no longer find a bargain. I have all the guns I will ever need. That doesn't mean I have all I will ever want. I just don't want to pay an arm and leg for them. The only tacticool thing that I care for on a rifle is a red dot. At 53 my eyes suck. I can see the target just fine but the sights are fuzzy if I were glasses, now the sights are clear and the target is fuzzy. I don't want a scope on everything so dots are it for a while. I do miss the shows though but as mentioned earlier, things change.

[badbob454]

i go to guns shows to meet guys like you.. im 60+ and these are the good old days , asi think it is getting worse , and plastic frame guns i hate/love love the feel and knowledge this weapon can last hundreds of years, but plastic , well it'll probably only outlive me .. haha , but i can fill my s&w m&p 40 with 15+1 capacity and a 5'' barrel and it is lighter than my all metal 9mm cz75b with 10 round clip,and 4'' barrel ... so i gotta love that times they a changing som for the better some for the worse., as for the veterans thanks for your service , as i am still living in the best country i can fathom

[NewbieDave007]

I agree with Love Life. It seems like a lifetime ago (it has only been a little over a decade ago) I was a Sergeant in the prisons. We trained on and used AR-15s and Glocks (although when I started we still qualified and carried 38 Specials) while at armed posts. With that said, those are the firearms I gravitate to, along with a fondness for historic (that I can afford).

[Hardcast416taylor]

I was that farm kid with the handful of grimy paper money buying ammo or perchance a used gun back then. I also put meat on the farm table for my family to eat. I also was that store clerk in our family owned general store that had a sporting goods section. I won`t go into anything about veterans and service rifles. I always looked forward to the 2 or 3 gun shows locally each year. Now they are no more. The few shows I have frequented in the last 10 years I wrote off as a bad experience. I find it almost funny that people whom I thought were friends are now telling me what guns of mine or loading equipment and other supplies I have I can give to them either now or leave to them in my will. Never mind buying them from an old not really healthy person just give it to them now. I gave a lot of 22 ammo and some guns to an old marine sniper friend of mine back in December, haven`t heard from him since? I do believe the old saying about growing old isn`t for the squemish and meek! My latest irksome problem is when I do shoot a little with my revolvers or bolt guns in my old gravel pit with 30+ foot high side walls, I am reported to the 911 operator as someone with an "automatic assault weapon"! Just too many "city slickers" buying a 10 acre, or less, lot and wanting everyone else that has lived here all their lives to conform to their "tree hugging" mentality.Robert

[Thumbcocker]

I'm not dissing anone for liking what they like. If you are a law abiding safe shooter I am in your corner whether your tastes match mine or not. I was just using the plastic guns as an example of change. Heck I even have one of the tuperware suckers myself and it shoots lead boolits good. I respect it but I can't love it.

My op was more about the mood and feel of gunshows than the wares offered for sale.

[Finster101]

Thumbcocker, I don't think anyone really took any offense, more they were just trying to explain the change. I'm like you though, it's just not much fun to go anymore. By the time I pay to park, pay to get in and then have to saunter along with the packed in sauntering crowd I'm generally not in a good mood when I leave.

[NewbieDave007]

No offense was taken at least by me.

I personally haven't gone to many gun shows but the last one was almost two years ago, just before the Great Panic of 12'/13'/14'/...

I'm sure I'll go to another as I did find a good deal on a Glock 19 G4 at that one but unfortunately I never experience the type of gun show you talked about in the OP. I wish I had.

[TheDoctor]

Last gun show I went to was about 14 years ago, and I had had enough then! About 20 percent of everything there was beanie babies, and beef jerkey. Take another 20 percent for junk knives, and chinese made bolt on accessories. About half the firearms vendors there were actually pretty cool guys, that would take time to talk to you and was willing to dicker a bit if there was something you were interested in. The rest of them were scalpers/gougers that seemed to be warming up for the big act that was to come in 10 years. Just to see what I might be able to get, even though I wasn't seriously interested in selling/trading at the time, I took a colt python I had. Now, this python was a second year production, serial number under 1000. 100% condition, never fired by me (the original owner), still in the original box with accessories, 6 inch, nickel, absolutely gorgeous. One vendor was trying to trade me this piece of junk, put together by himself, AR, with a no name "spetsnaz" issued "sniper" scope. And was almost yelling at me about how stupid I was for not taking the deal by trading an absolute mint 2nd year python for about 800 (maybe) dollars worth of ill fitting parts. It got real exciting at that point, surprised both of us didn't get ejected. Had another that wanted to trade me a well used freedom arms 454, IF I gave him 400 dollars to boot. That one almost turned out bad also. Best I saw was this one that offered me a NIB S&W mountain revolver plus 500. For what I eventually traded that python for at a later date, I should have taken that deal. Not going to get into that story, it's one of those that I kick myself in the tail everytime I think about it. If the gunshows were getting that bad to me back then, I would really hate to go to one now. Most of what I want, I will not find, and if I do, it will be at way out of market prices, because guys like using the words "nice", "limited edition",and "rare", to try and fool people. I can stand neither liars, nor people who try to take me for a fool. Sometimes I am foolish, just don't start the conversation out like it's a pre-determined fact. Not worth my frustration, and I am going to have to start watching my blood pressure one of these years!

[Love Life]

When I was much younger (not really that long ago) I had a blast at gunshows with my Father and Grandfather.

Most vendors took the time to let a young kid look over the guns and answered questions.

Now, vendors are rude and act offended when you ask questions about their stuff.

I now sit on my couch in the air conditioning and order what I want from gunbroker. It shows up, I pick it up, and I'm usually out the door for less than what buying a gun at the gunshow or retail store I transferred through would have been.

When gun shows become enjoyable again then I'll start going again.

The only exception for me is the Big Reno Gun Show. That is an awesome show.

[walltube]

Thumbcocker,
Thank you for a well written essay enjoyed by this lamenter of 'gun shows past'. You are not alone. If I may clumsily quote Col. Cooper: "...another time, another country..".

In the spirit of respect to those who fielded the AR in combat, and to those who own and enjoy that type firearm, I confess to now having a Chris Patty made AR. (sigh) Buck Rogers now shares living quarters with Enfield, Garand, Schmidt-Rubin, Mauser, etc., etc. Yes, Mother Nature's oiled hardwood stocks yet rule!

Yours to the last zinc free WW,
Wt.

[fatelk]

Things are different now for sure. I think a big part of it for me, though, is that when I first started going to shows back in the '80s everything was new and interesting. Something that may not have been a good deal seemed like one to me.

Nowadays I have pretty much everything I need and then some, times about 5 maybe. There is nothing I need anymore, and little I want either. Most of the time now when I go to the few-and-far-between gun show I walk away empty handed.

[Artful]

Oh, I agree the mood has changed - A lot of vendors are more mercenary and a lot of the purchasers are not thinking along the same lines as you are. But it's like the lack of courtesy and common sense in today's world - it's changed not for the better and not much you can do about it.

[GRUMPA]

Back when I first started going to the gun shows in Phoenix they were on the large side. Depending on who sponsored it determined the size of the show. I learned kinda fast which sponsor produced the biggest shows, price was the same either way.

The first couple of times (early 90's) I went just to get the feel of it, didn't really need a whole lot but just went with my brothers to have a good time. Fast forward to the last 1 I went to (Dec 13) and yes it was a rather large show, complete with folks selling everything from rifles to wine glasses. I drove the 9hr round trip primarily for reloading supplies, yes I know at the time (and still is) things were harder to get. Most of what I saw were the current "HOT" sellers for the (I guess) for the newer generation. That I kinda figured and just went from table to table looking at what they had to offer.

The thing(s) I noticed were the exact same (NEW) rifle was $150 different in price depending on where you were at the show. I wasn't in the market just noticed prices vary a lot depending on which building your in.

Didn't really walk out with much at all, reloading supplies were either more than I wanted to pay or just not there. I never buy guns at a show, to me most vendors either make a great story or flat out lie in order to sell something, unless it's something new.

There's a local site I go to and read about folks that went to the same show and remarked on the prices being higher than what it would cost if they just ordered it on the net. Me being the tight *** I am wont even pay what some folks want on the net. But I guess I might have to bend a little and accept the fact that I'm just to tight.

As far as going to another show of any kind I don't see myself ever going to another 1, at least for right now. Locally they're a joke which is why I drove all the way to the 1 in Phoenix.

[Mallard57]

I haven't been to a show in a long time. It seemed the scalpers were the norm, could never find anything at a decent price anymore.
Jeff

[youngmman]

I often wonder who I will leave my guns to. I have some unique pieces, performance center S&W's not made anymore and a custom Mo. 17 the factory modified in the early 70's for an exchangable 22 mag. cylindar, an original Mo. 629 W/pinned barrel and recessed chambers bought new and never shot among others. Also several custom rifles.

It really bothers me that they will not go to anyone who would appreciate them as I do.

[shoot-n-lead]

internet has changed everything. Sellers and buyers come together. If your a seller, the 24/7 gun show is available for much cheaper than table rent, gas and hotels if needed. If your a buyer, much much more chance of finding exactly what you want. That is not going to change so if gun enthusiasts don't adapt, then prepare to loose out. The older crowd was influenced by the westerns, the middle crowd was influenced by dirty harry and the younger crowd is influence by what ever tac cool items are featured on tv and in the news.

Bingo!

I don't go much anymore as the internet is much easier and I can find exactly what I am looking for pretty close to the price that I am willing to pay (or available money to spend) and I can do that while carrying on with my everyday life. We did go week before last and brought a Kimber Ultra Carry home at a great price. I hear everyone talking about the high prices at gun shows...but it is seems to me that if you are looking for any of the carry guns, and most ammo are at reasonable prices if you just look around.

I remember how I used to LOVE a gun show, but I have changed as much as the gun shows have...when I LOVED it so much, I had never had many guns...now I have 2 safes full, so there is not as much intrigue for me as there once was...so goes life.

ALSO, I know for a fact that my interest is much more specific now and the guns that I shoot more than any others are not there in abundance...single actions.

[waltherboy4040]

Usually just go to look, a lot of times its the same old guys bringing out stuff from their collection with a high price. Not because they wanna sell but just because they wanna make their wife happy.

[Finster101]

I often wonder who I will leave my guns to. I have some unique pieces, performance center S&W's not made anymore and a custom Mo. 17 the factory modified in the early 70's for an exchangable 22 mag. cylindar, an original Mo. 629 W/pinned barrel and recessed chambers bought new and never shot among others. Also several custom rifles.

It really bothers me that they will not go to anyone who would appreciate them as I do.


I am in the same boat. I an only child with no kids. If I go before my wife I have told her to have a couple of friends that I trust help her with selling them, that way she will not be taken on their value. I also told her that before she sells anything to offer those friends their choice of 1 to keep. If I'm the last one left, well, some will be given to friends and some I may leave to my gun club so that they can raffle them off to benefit the club. No they are not new, but well worth a $10.00 ticket. At least I will know that they are going to shooters and hopefully someone who appreciates them.

[quilbilly]

There are gun shows and there are gun shows. I go to a big a few times a year but rarely see much of interest but next weekend is a little one at a Grange Hall that happens twice a year as a fundraiser to build a shooting range and little of the black gear is present. I carry money to that one and rare is the show I don't walk out with a screaming deal. Youu are right about the crowd getting older every year just like me.

[quilbilly]

I am in the same boat. I an only child with no kids. If I go before my wife I have told her to have a couple of friends that I trust help her with selling them, that way she will not be taken on their value. I also told her that before she sells anything to offer those friends their choice of 1 to keep. If I'm the last one left, well, some will be given to friends and some I may leave to my gun club so that they can raffle them off to benefit the club. No they are not new, but well worth a $10.00 ticket. At least I will know that they are going to shooters and hopefully someone who appreciates them.
I love your plan!!! I may do the same.

[castalott]

yep...times ( or me) are changing. I remember gunshows with 'junk' tables. You just might find a firing pin or extractor for your Mauser. You might find a small dealer with deals on powder or primers or presses. Or who knows what else?

One of the big things that stopped me was that there was no room to walk. The Dealers had 6 to 8 feet for them to walk between the tables. The other 2000 of us were standing shoulder to shoulder in about 2 to 3 feet. One literally could not move down the aisles. They need to think of the customers....

I don't want tactical anything. Shotgun with a folding stock is worthless to me. One with no stock is even worse.

I also admit you can find exactly what you want on the internet and have it delivered to you easily. No drive, no gas expense, no hassle to park, no pay to get in, no deal with crowds, and not treated like a 3rd class citizen.

Ok...old guy rant off. But you new guys will be here someday. Just wait....:veryconfu

[GOPHER SLAYER]

Thumbcocker, you must be physic. You have read my thoughts over two thousand miles away. I am probably older than anyone else on this forum and I have witnessed change that makes me hesitate to even talk about it. I don't think most people believe me or think it's just the ramblings of some old codger. For many years there was a large gun show in Pomona, Ca. that lasted three days and filled five buildings plus the outside dealers. I could go there and visit with friends and pick up reloading gear cheap. The friends I shot with and would meet there are all gone now. Even the show was closed by an local idiot left wing Dumbocrat that now sits in congress and her initials are MW. You can figure it out with little difficulty. Gun shows are now all about black guns, camo, beef jerky, Indian jewelry and price gouging. But has you said so well, it is more than just gun shows. Our sport, along with society has changed. Last Thursday some friends and I went to the range and everyone but us was shooting the black guns, as fast as they could pull the trigger. I was on a bench to the right of one of these Rambo types. You know the guys I am talking about, shady side of forty five, fat, balding with glasses. I had to move when a bench opened to his left. His rife was throwing hot brass at about the same speed his bullets were leaving the barrel and hitting me in the side of the head. He later came over to me and asked , with a laugh, you moved because of my brass, didn't you? I just nodded. Range etiquette doesn't exist anymore. There are local indoor ranges you can go to and shoot pistols for about twenty bucks an hour. Geez, it takes me that long to get set up and ready to shoot. I also share your feelings that the world we grew up in has slipped into history and it isn't coming back. As a boy I could walk down the road where I lived with a 22 rifle on my shoulder on the way to the woods and no one thought anything about it. Our son put twelve years in the Marines carrying all kinds of weapons but he cares very little about guns. His is a different world. I have lamented on this sight several times that I have spent years putting together a nice collection of single shot rifles and now there are very few places to shoot them and no one to leave them to when I go. Very sad.

[JWT]

My first gunshows were back in the 1970's at the light guard armory in Detroit with my dad and his friends. Between being included with the adults and the amazing variety it was a Wonderland.

Through the 70s, 80s, and early 90s there was still quite a variety to be found at gun shows. Decent military surplus as well as hunting rifles of all ages. Books, reloading equipment, good knifes and bayonets were available. Prices ranged from a steal to a rip off just as in all other things. And then the AK/SKS craze hit. People seemed to gravitate from the guns and methods of the past (accuracy/reloading) to cheap and high capacity. The old military surplus that is there looks like it was used as a fencepost since the war.

Gun shows in my area are now pretty much a flea market with a specialized corner. You pay to park then pay to get into the gun area. Your ID is checked. It almost feels like you are doing something illicit. Once you have gotten in the merchandise is biased toward the modern and mass produced. The occasional collectors show here typically only has guns that are overpriced and not as nice as what I already have.

I mourn the fact that my 9yr old son will not get to experience the gun shows of the past. I miss them.

[xs hedspace]

The last gunshow I went to, I brought my accurized M1, to sell, because my right eye has a cataract, and if I fire sitting Rapid, I need a come along to get up. OMG, all I heard was "that's not the correct part for that Garand". The people were buying up all the cheap .223 ammo, rolling it out with hand trucks. Very depressing.

[1Shirt]

Have about given up going to Gun Shows. About 3/4 of the dealers are just that, and know little about firearms! Some just enough to be dangerous.

1Shirt!

[Elkins45]

My experience is that most of the shows here in KY are well worth attending. It chafes me a little bit that I have to pay $8 for parking in Louisville to attend the National Gun Day show, but I can see more guns under one roof that I could see in three days of driving between local brick and mortar stores. I the last two years I have gotten some good deals on nice guns and have bought reloading supplies I couldn't find anywhere locally.

Things change. Things always change.

[jcwit]

It's not only gun shows, take a look at one of the American Rifleman mags from back in the 50/60's, or how bout the old Popular Mechanics, Mechanics Illustrated. Anyone remember what Mother Earth News used to be like?

The whole landscape has changed.

[shooter93]

I'm not so sure we won't see it slowly change back as the younger shooters change. many of we older gents here passed up many an old Winchesters or whatever for whatever was the newest. And in the case of true custom guns we didn't have the money then. So as they aged the old became the "new" because it was interesting and uncommon. I've always loaded ammunition for obscure rounds for lots of different people as well as myself. Years ago younger shooters would not believe what we went through to find or make brass and bullets for the oldies. Now it's every where but the people shooting them are oldies too. The stuff will start becoming scarce again and then a new crowd will get interested and away the cycle will go again. Seems the same with classic cars etc. Couldn't afford them when young and now they buy the car they always wanted. Look at Schuetzen or even the Cowboy Action crowd....it's primarily "oldies"

[Bullwolf]

Went to a gun show yesterday. I have been going to this same one for over 20 years. Things just seem different. Its not just the Pakistani knives and beef jerky, I don't blame anyone for trying to make an honest buck, but the feel is different. The crowd is old, I am getting older and things are changing. I made a good trade on a pistol I didn't need for another pistol I didn't need. Continuing my search for the perfect pistol to pack around the farm. I don't know if I will ever find that pistol but the search used to be fun. Now it just seems like I have a lot of pistols that I don't shoot very much.

Thanks for letting me vent.

Vent away Thumbcocker. I also miss the older gun shows that were more of a family event, than an excuse for overweight guys to dress up in black and to buy black plastic guns... But I digress.

Inquiring minds want to know more about your search for the perfect pack around the farm pistol.

I've also been having a good time chasing after the mythical perfect farm packing pistol. So far about the only thing I've established is that stainless steel is a big convenience for me.



- Bullwolf

[Lance Boyle]

In a lot of ways part of the old gun shows have gone over to the internet boards like these. A little trading, some online friendships. Some guys giving "friendly" prices and other guys holding out for their full value, along the ways some guys just outright gifting things to someone who would appreciate an item not used in a long time.

I took about a 15 year hiatus from the gun shows. I used to go to the Albany NY gunshow, the Big Show at the State Fair grounds and the mediocre show in Saratoga. Quite often you'd see the exact same tables at all the shows with the same items for years with silly high prices on them along with the "don't touch" signs. When i was a kid I liked all the milsurp stuff, the m1 carbines, the web gear, the bayonets and helmets. When i got older all I wanted was good hunting guns. For some reason after downsizing my paltry collection i got on a C&R kick. That pushed me into cast boolits and reduced loads and finding this place. My long winded way of saying not only have the shows evolved but so have many of our tastes and wants as we go through cycles. I can remember walking quickly past the tables of old used junk. Now those are the same tables I hawk eye for older molds and casting gear.

I did take a little bit of umbrage at the comments on the guys who liked black rifles. [I'm over it :-)] I like all guns even though I don't want all guns and I hardly blame a guy who wants something different from me. Today I was at the county fair and I could hear the tractor pulls and the truck pulls. In my head I said that was a stupid past time to make a drag racing tractor. Hey so what, it's his money and his fun.

Look at cowboy revolvers, not many wanted them in the 20's and 30's, then in the 50's with the TV/movie westerns they got hot again, then withered for years, and then got hot again. Look at the WW2 rifles, they're still pretty hot these days after not really being hot in my youthful days in the 80's

Cycles like was said in the post before me. Enjoy them before our own human cycles wind down.

I still shake my head at what the country has become; keeping a gun to protect yourself is bad, going to church is bad, in some segments of society going to school and actually learning is bad, working is bad. What they push now is drugs are ok, Frank marrying Bill is ok, not working is noble and earning your way is greedy, your government will take care of your needs.

Sad but I'm glad I don't have kids.

[doc1876]

we have one decent promoter here in the St. Louis area, http://www.missouriarmscollectorsassociation.com/ and they put on one or two shows a year, and if I am lucky I will make one of them. The old timers attend this show. I know I won't get a great deal, but I will be able to talk to someone I can understand. All of the rest are as you say, candy, china knives, and junk.

[Bent Ramrod]

I have to say, my experience is very different. I go to Gun Shows all the time. What I look for is pretty specific, so I don't dawdle around tables where people are spouting off about stuff they know not what. That's been a routine feature of Gun Shows since I started going in the Seventies. After I got the "expert" opinions of the skinny guy with the Coke-Bottle glasses and the stack of Soldier Of Fortune Magazines under his arm Way Back When, everything subsequent has just been background noise.

Yes, now there are tables full of Black Rifles and Uppers and Lowers and Tactical-Schmactical and all like that. And the milsurp stuff is grungier by the show and the year. The World Wars that produced it are receding further into the past all the time and the Good Stuff is going into collections; it's expected. The antiques are also pretty finite in numbers, so they're not going to be more plentiful as time passes. But I don't see any more old people than I used to see. The familiar faces behind tables are older, but that's only to be expected. The younger set looking over the tables (and there are plenty of them) are all into the Semi-Auto stuff now, but didn't our youthful selves go through our own maximum-velocity, heaviest loaded, biggest bore possible phases before we matured and got more sophisticated in our tastes? I'm sure the oldtimers back then rolled their eyes at us, too.

People take their kids to the shows around here, and there are plenty of them underfoot, to my certain knowledge. In thirty years, maybe they will be on the Forums lamenting that the Good Old Stuff that thrilled them when they went with their Dads and Uncles is priced out of sight and there is nothing at the shows anymore but Laser Blasters and Ray Guns for the kids to go nuts over.

I also see a lot more women at gun shows now, and they are not just looking at the jewelry and glassware. Thirty years ago, the few women at shows were being dragged behind their husbands like cats on a leash, with a look of martyrdom on their faces that would beat Joan of Arc any day. You just knew that Hubby was going to a hundred Shoe Stores as payback when this miserable experience was over. Now I see more and more of them with their girlfriends, looking over the guns.

And this is not some outlying frontier community; these shows are in California. Yes, the parking and entry fees are ridiculous, but I figure it's cheaper than the Pantages Theater, and more entertaining.

[TXGunNut]

I truly enjoyed gun shows 20-30 years ago, folks getting into the hobby now don't know what they're missing. Back then some things were pretty hard to find in the LGS but if you knew what you were looking for you could find it at a big gun show. Bought and sold more than a few guns there but mainly supplies, parts and tons of reloading equipment and supplies. I also got to see and learn about some interesting and beautiful firearms. I quit going to gun shows before buying on the internet became commonplace, I think the junk and some unpleasant people ran me off long before Al Gore's internet gave them some serious competition.
I thought about going to a gun show this weekend but it's been over 10 years since I actually paid money to walk around a crowded hall to look at junk.

[Frank46]

Been to many a gun show over the years. Place where they hold it now is so small and parking's a pain. Saturdays looks like bargain day at wally world. So go on sundays. Usually see the same overpriced **** and just see the quality of the show going downhill. Haven't bought any toys in over a year and don't think that will change. Dealers think their stuff is gold and yours is junk. Sorry but wasn't born yesterday with that kind of thinking. Frank

[Slow Elk 45/70]

:violin:I think the last gun show I attended was early 80's......I feel like a dinosaur around all these younger people, I can't stand their" I know because I heard it or read in on some twit's yap"......so I quit.....don't have to listen to all the un-truth's the people swore by ...I can't abide idiots. My Dad told me ,if you don't really know your right, keep your yap shut ....hard to do these days, these people get more stupid by the day.........IMHO I hear a lot of B.S. where anyone is talking guns, reloading, shooting so just keep moving along, I don't have to take a pill that way. Better to say nothing and be thought a fool, than opening your mouth and removing "ALL" doubt.... SEMPER FI :groner:

[nvbirdman]

When I was younger and couldn't afford all these guns I bought them anyway and struggled with money.
Now I'm older and I can afford any gun that strikes my fancy, But I realize I already have at least one of those at home.

[DHurtig]

After what I've read here, it seems that I am fortunate to be where the gun shows are better than most. I have attended most of the shows in my area as a vendor for over 10 years now. I make predator and turkey calls. However after this many years I have kind of saturated my local market. Now to supplement my sales I buy and sell things. I buy things at auctions and yard sales that I can sell at gun shows and on the internet and I buy things on the internet to sell at the gun shows.

Like many have said, many of the vendors are getting older. There are younger guys coming in but sadly many are the mall ninja types. I see a number of the newer guys here are into the tacticool stuff and a couple also deal in Class III stuff, full auto, suppressors and short barrel stuff. It's fun to look at but nothing I have a desire to own. Gun shows here have never really been the place to find a bargain. They are a good place to find parts, vintage guns that don't often show up in the local gun stores and used and unusual stuff. There doesn't seem to be a lot of casters around here, so molds that show up are usually reasonably priced. We are fortunate that one of the newer vendors specializes in casting, so I always look forward to seeing his table. The shows here are for the most part worth while.

I guess that I enjoy having a table even when the sales are slow. I've made many friends over the years that I only see at the shows. I'm also ever grateful that what I sell is small and portable. I feel sorry for the guys that I see carrying load after load of big bulky heavy items in and out time after time. For the amount of stuff I see some of them sell, I don't understand how they can even break even.

[Love Life]

How about...instead of thumbing up your nose and immediately writing off the younger man trying to buy or sell, you take the time to talk to them? Educate them on what you're selling or let them educate you on what they are selling?

Many a vendor has lost a sale to me because they looked at me as a young kid not worthy of their time. Funny how they change their tune when I break out the Benjamins and explain WHY I'm NOT buying an item from them. However, I may be digressing here.

For those who are lamenting a time past, and wondering if your heritage will live on, you kind of really need to engage these younger folks. Who knows, that young chap at your table may not have a steady father presence in his or her life and has no clue, but they came to a gun show to talk to the "experts" and instead run across some crochity old douche canoe who treats them like a retarded thug just cuz'.

Now, it's not just the older men who do this. As a matter of fact, the older (mid 50's and up) are much easier and better to talk to. The middle aged vendors are where I see the majority of attitudes. I really hate it when a pig who can't grow facial hair gets an attitude when you ask them about an object. Whew!! I need to calm down!

To close my rant: Yes, some gun shows suck. Some are great. At the end of the day we are all gun owners who enjoy the culture very much. We need to be more open to those who are just now waking up ad entering the culture.

[Garyshome]

Thumbcocker...you need to write a book! If you are looking for quality stuff [firearms included] Buy the Old stuff. Old stuff is the best stuff and it is all made here in the USA!
Is this new and different?

[Garyshome]

Way to go Love Life!

[Lance Boyle]

I'll never forget the guy with a table of replacement unfinished stocks at the Syracuse gun show. I was looking at a M1903 Springfield type stock that I wanted to buy, I asked the vendor where did they come from, thinking I'd be told who made them. Nope instead I got an angry spittle filled snarl "they come from F'n trees". I wasn't even a young punk anymore I was in my late 30's at the time with cash in my pocket. Obviously I put the stock back on his rack and walked away.

I know a couple guys from the local sportsman's federation who go out of their way to mentor young sportsmen who don't have fatherly guidance at home. Their efforts are humbling and my hat is off to them.

[Mumblypeg]

There is not much I can add that has not already been said and it is the same here. I used to go to a show in Charlotte at least once a year and it is the same as most of you say about the way things have changed. I think the last thing I bought at a show was primers and maybe some powder or some part that I was looking for and that was ... I don't know, maybe 5 years ago? I have everything from front stuffers to plastic guns and like them all for what activity they fit. I don't like all the so called new safety stuff that is on many firearms now. They just make it more complicated to operate and some make them more dangerous IMO. As most here know, "The bitterness of poor quality remains long after the sweetness of low price is forgotten". Love Life, I wish that more young people were more interested in what we old folks have to offer. You seem to be the exception rather than the rule now days. I have no children and no one around me that really cares about loading much less casting there own. I have found a lady near my age that used to be afraid of guns that now absolutely loves to shoot after I introduced her to guns. Anyway.... yes things change as they always have. I think that's why we don't live forever nor do we want to....

[youngmman]

This isn't particularly about gun shows but when I was young, dumb, but eager. I sought out older experienced men and ASKED QUESTIONS, lots of 'em and found all but a very few were very willing to share their knowledge about guns, shooting and reloading. I want to particularly single out an old gunsmith in town named "Punch". He was 75-80 years old and I was 16-17. Punch had worked at Stockton Sporting goods, started by the father of Dave Stockton, the golfer, but when the character of the store changed from an emphasis on guns and hunting to golf and other sports Punch was kept on mostly out of tradition since he had been there from the beginning and had a small space in a back room. I was told about him and his skills and went to see him and he would spend as much time as I was willing to listen explaining guns, how they worked, what made them reliable and some more accurate than others, how to shoot, not just make one go "bang" but SHOOT, many of you will know what I mean. Honestly, a lot of that knowledge served me very well, not only in a lifetime of shooting activity, but in two deployments to VN with US Navy Seabee Mobile Construction Battalion.

Anyway, the point is for younger shooters and reloaders, seek out experienced practitioners and simply ask questions. I think you'll find a wealth of information you won't find anywhere else.

Offered IMHO for what it's worth.

[Mumblypeg]

One other thought on the way some vendors act.... I saw a sign in a store many years ago and I think it still hangs there in my town.... "Samson slew 10,000 Philistines with the jawbone of an ***, the same weapon is used to kill 10,000 sales every day". I have never forgot that one.

[Mumblypeg]

Well the mods blocked the three letter word for a donkey..... I hope you get the message.... gezz...it's in the Bible but we can't print it here.... more change.....

[dakotashooter2]

I'm not really into the "black rifle" thing. Have never had one and probably never will. What will I do if the SHTF? Use the guns I am already proficient with and to quote from the movie "We were Soldiers"...."when the time comes that I need one there will be plenty of them lying around".....

[Love Life]

Black guns are good for more than just SHTF stuff. I know a man who took 1st place and almost shot a perfect using a Knights Armament in 308.

[Jtarm]

I truly enjoyed gun shows 20-30 years ago, folks getting into the hobby now don't know what they're missing. Back then some things were pretty hard to find in the LGS but if you knew what you were looking for you could find it at a big gun show. Bought and sold more than a few guns there but mainly supplies, parts and tons of reloading equipment and supplies. I also got to see and learn about some interesting and beautiful firearms. I quit going to gun shows before buying on the internet became commonplace, I think the junk and some unpleasant people ran me off long before Al Gore's internet gave them some serious competition.
I thought about going to a gun show this weekend but it's been over 10 years since I actually paid money to walk around a crowded hall to look at junk.

Where ya located, gun nut? I used to go to the FW show but it sucks now. I may try to hit the Market Hall show or the old Gun & Militaria show at the convention center. There at least used to be lots of interesting & rare stuff you don't see everyday. A big part of why I no longer go is my shooting buddy retired & moved away. I may have to try & lure him up for a show. Also my dad got too old
& sick & finally passed away. Just no fun going alone.

Actually, the show described by the OP sounds pretty good.

Back in the late 70s when I first started going, they were laid back & fun. There were few, if any, FFLs. IIRC, dealers were not allowed to sell outside their licensed premises until the Firearm Owners Protection Act passed in the mid 80s. Shortly thereafter, I started to see dealers & wholesales with table after table of new guns. That spelled the beginning of the end for small LGS.

Next came the assault panic, and the shows went nuts with table-upon-table of AK-47 knockoffs. The shows still weren't too bad if you could find a way past the assault rifle hordes. At the time, a lot of PDs were trading in their revolvers for autos, and there were some spectacular deals on good revolvers.

Next came CHL and more tables dedicated to the same, new semi-auto pistols.

Now we're in the gun & ammo panic.

I quit going years ago. On the rare occasions I do, it's to find something specific, like milsurp ammo or parts that I don't want to pay shipping on, though after parking, entry fee, and sales tax I dunno if come out ahead. But no longer to browse & have fun, it's in and out as quick as I can. When I do see something interesting, it's grossly over-priced, like, say, a 91/30 or a spam-can of ammo. Then when I ask if the seller can come down, I usually get a BS answer like "Oh no, they're, banning import on those", thus fanning the flames of panic-buying. As I've said before, ignorant or unscrupulous dealers are some of the worst rumor spreaders.

Also as I've said many times, they're no longer laid back & fun, but more like Black Friday with mostly **** I have no interest in.

As I've

[TXGunNut]

Where ya located, gun nut? -Jtarm

I guess we've been to the same shows, quit going for similar reasons. I guess some shows are better. I used to learn a lot at shows in the old days because vendors were hobbyists like me. Now they're dealers trying to make a living off hysteria and fads, I don't participate in either.

[Hardcast416taylor]

The last firearm I bought at a gunshow was an 1884 Trapdoor with the ramrod bayonet model. I was working a table for our gun club and spotted this rifle on one of my restroom breaks in the 2nd floor hall. I handled it and chatted with the owner about how long he had owned it, it had been passed down from Grandfather to his son to this man. For 2 days I looked at the rifle expecting it to be gone, but it was still there at the end of the 2nd day. I asked if he really wished to sell it? He said if I had $250 it was mine! I scribbled him a check and my phone number. Turns out he knew my brother from high school back in the `50`s. This took place back in the late `80`s, haven`t bought a gunshow firearm since.Robert

[facetious]

It's not only gun shows, take a look at one of the American Rifleman mags from back in the 50/60's, or how bout the old Popular Mechanics, Mechanics Illustrated. Anyone remember what Mother Earth News used to be like?

The whole landscape has changed.

I have to agree any more A.R. mag. is not worth reading.When I started getting it in the late 70's it had all kinds of stuff to read, a lot of how to DIY things, and how to reloading stories. Now half or more is politics, a story on the civil war and the latest and bestist AR stuff the rest is just add's. Working in news paper I know that advertising the life blood so I shouldn't complain but it has just become one big add. All the reloading stuff assumes that you know nothing and the "history story's" are there so thy can say it's educational. Not long a go I got rid off all the ones that I have saved from the 90's on for just that reason. If you ever look at the ones that had the bound edge thy had all kinds off how to stuff. Shooting Times mag was the same way. I learned how to do a trigger job on my Security Six from Skeeter. I bought the first one for a story on how to tune a 10-22 in '79 . You will never see them show you how to alter a gun now, the liability would be to great.

In the 80's I loved the gun shows, I was trying to learn every thing I could. I liked to buy and trade guns just so I try them out and then trade them off for some thing else to try. Thy had the best prices on reloading stuff and there was all ways some fun stuff to see. The last time I had been to a show for a long time "Clinton the First" was the "Embarrassment in Chief". I went to one a few years a go and I swear some of it was the same stuff!

Any more I see stuff that I think would be fun and finding my self asking why? All the places that I had to go shoot have been turned in to golf courses and subdivisions and when I do find a place to go it is not long and it gets closed. The closest public ranges that I know of are a 100 mi. and I don't have the time for it any more if I have to drive that far. My best hope now is that when I get to retire in five years ( I hope) I will have the time to get in to it more and maybe move to some place where you don't have to drive for two hours to shoot. But maybe by then I can have a small RV and say I went camping.

As for all the AR's and plastic guns I think it is just a mater of style. " Back in the day" it was all about Contenders and XP-100's. Then it was race guns and all any one wanted were tricked out 1911's. Do any of you remember the early 80's when every one ran story's on what was the best M-16's or AK's or maybe a Mini-14.Then it was 9mm or 45's. Now we all want to be"Special op's" with tricked out M-4's and shoot long range sniper type guns. Who knows what the next gun fad will be.

I have given some thought to a high capacity pistol to have if I get some kind of RV just because with two spare mag's you would have all the ammo you would need for self defense on a trip but then think what am I going to do with it that my .357 won't take care of. Same with the AR shorty's. I can see were thy would be great for a self defense gun to take, but what am I going to be doing that my 870 with a 18 in. tube and buck shot or slugs will not handle. That and when you start heading closer to your 70's how much gun fighting do you think you are going to be doing?

My rant for the day.

[troyboy]

I seldom purchase anything outside a show. I have been to shows all over this country. What is certain, pricing of items depends on the region. If a bargain can't be found you arn't looking. The journey is what makes desitnation. God Bless America

[garym1a2]

I must be odd, I like my local gunshows. Typically the Orlando show is big enough to find a decent price on primers and sometimes powder. I also brough a few guns their over the years. Back in the late 80's and early 90's my Rifles of choice where M1 and a M1a. Today its the AR's as they are easier to shoot and very easy to make them shoot well.

[BruceB]

Living in Reno NV, I simply do not see the the factors in my local gun shows that everyone is citing on this thread.

The major show here is the Big Reno Show, held three times per year in one of the hotel/casinos. The Show FILLS two complete ballrooms, and it is flatly impossible to see everything in one day.

I do NOT see "the same guns" at show after show.

I DO see many items I'd like to own, and I DO buy occasionally. Out of the last three shows I attended, I bought a nice Trapdoor for a fair price, and a Krag carbine (from a walk-around citizen) at a FANTASTIC price.

Some merchandise certainly appears many times.... at most Big Reno shows some of the same vendors show up.... I've seen a row of tables fifty or sixty feet long (maybe more) stacked THREE FEET HIGH with rifle magazines. How do they expect to sell literally thousands of mags? But, they keep coming back, so business must be good. (And, there were several such displays of thousands of magazines).

In recent local shows,apart from the rifles, I've bought M1 Carbine mags and parts, M14 parts and accessories, casting tools, mags for my S&W M39, binoculars.... you name it.

I would easily believe there are ten thousand guns in those two ballrooms, and accessories for most of them. It's a thoroughly enjoyable spectacle, a smorgasbord of gun stuff and gun people (OMG, the WOMEN!).

If ever you are in our vicinity for gun-show weekend.... it's well worth taking it in. Jaded by 'other' shows or not, this will refresh your perceptions. I must believe that this is the way gunshows USED to be.

[Blood Trail]

I think the OP is spot on. Everybody wants to be an operator these days. They play these Call of Duty war games and now they rush out to buy these tacti-cool rifles.
Not every sailor is a Seal, not every Marine a sniper or Force Recon, but it seems I'm meeting a lot of Spec OP guys these days. Wanna-bes, I'm guessing.

BTW, 10 year Marine vet here. Never was a sniper, but I shot on our pistol/rifle team.

Proud air-winger!

[Love Life]

Who cares if they want to be/look like operators? The only title I care about is gun owner, and de facto supporter of our right to keep and bear arms.

[bubba.50]

my gunshow blues is they always seem to come around when i'm at my brokest.