what cast boolit for 3k velocity?

[Thompsoncustom]

Just wonder what u guys think would be the best cast bullet for around 3k fps if its even possible. I'm setup for powder coating bullets and I can get ahold of some stronger alloys. Just wondering what the best 147gr-150gr 308 cast boolit would be if there is one.

[Bullshop]

I don't PC but I have pushed the NOE clone of the Lyman 225107 to 3650 fps using our Lotak lube.
So far with shooting boolits really fast I have gotten my best results with 22 cal.

[John Boy]

A reload with a fps in the 3,xxx for a lead bullet will require a GC. Go out on eBay and buy the 311413 Ideal mold - 170gr
I reload the 225438 GC, 44gr of 220 Swift reloads avg 3640 fps ... accurate and no leading

[Thompsoncustom]

I didn't know if I needed a gas check with powder coating or not. All my 308 will be under 3k so if it can held 3000 fps it will work for anything I'm doing.

[runfiverun]

I'd have a back-up plan P/C isn't a jacket and normal cast rules still apply to it's use.


anyway I'd be looking at something from accurate molds with large drive bands, a super supported nose that slopes from front to back to help fill the angled throat, a centering and non square front drive band with enough length on it to fill the 308 calibers ball seat area.

I'm still trying to figure out how you plan on pushing a 308 boolit to 3-k fps? you need something like a
300 win/ultra mag case to do it with jaxketed bullets.

[Thompsoncustom]

I don't that why if the bullets good up to 3k it will be more than enough for me. Guessing I'll be running more 2500fps range. I don't really know only reload 9mm right now. Been using powder coated range scrap and WW's but I can get ahold of some Linotype. Don't really know what I need for hardness/alloy but learning if half the fun.

[DonH]

I once cooked bullets cast from clip-on WW for 1hr at a bit over 450 degrees then quenched. My LBT hardness tester read 36! Sounds like you might be looking for something in that hardness range to go the velocity you are after. JMO

[Larry Gibson]

Thompsoncustom

Have you done a search on high velocity with cast bullets here, especially with the .308W? I would venture, if your question is a serious one, you haven't. If you did you would understand the difficulties of what you ask.

First of all 3000 fps with the .308W with a 147 - 150 gr bullet, even a cast bullet, requires a very specialized rifle, very specialized loads, very specialized loading techniques and very specialized and expensive equipment. You have not mentioned the rifle you are going to use(?).

Second, 3000 fps can be done but are you planning on hitting anything with such a load? What accuracy do you expect at 3000 fps with a cast bullet out of your .308W?

Additionally you might want to read the 3 RPM Threshold stickies and the 30 XCB thread to get an idea of what you're up against. You might also research the PC forum to see what real world accuracy and performance they are actually getting or claiming.

Not trying to discourage you but going from rudimentary loading with the 9mm to PHD level with a rifle cartridge leaves a lot of learning in between. However, to answer your basic question of "Just wondering what the best 147gr-150gr 308 cast boolit would be if there is one." the three best cast bullet options for the .308W (in a specialized rifle) for high velocity (3000 fps with any of them is questionable) are the 311466, the LBT 30-160-SP and we hope the new NOE 30-165-FN (not available yet).

Larry Gibson

[1Shirt]

A lot of wisdom in what Larry says. The highest I have ever driven (with accuracy) any cast blt was about 25-2600 fps. They were cast hard, 27-28bh or better, gas checked obviously, and lubed with Lars lubes of various denominations (all good)! Had the best luck with 22 cals, in hornet, k-hornet, 222, and 223. Need to try in 22-250. Following Beagle's great articles on cast 22's, for accuracy, I weigh all 22's, and 6MM's to exact weights on a digital scale. For 7MM's and up, I am well satisfied with vols with a max of about 2200 fps. Have no doubt that some have exceeded 3000 fps, and more power to them, but as I am fond of saying, "to each his own". Think Larry speaks well on 3000 and above with 30 cals.
1Shirt!

[madsenshooter]

"Get a 311413"! I don't know about others here, but I've tried a lot of different things to get that bullet to shoot accurately above 1600. Harder alloys, slower powders, etc. Even at 2000fps you'll likely be hitting a couple targets away from your point of aim at 100yds. One to the left, one to right, one over, one under....Phil Sharpe claimed he had an accurate 2000fps load for it, but I'll bet he wasn't using a 1/10 twist rifle.

[Larry Gibson]

+1 on what madsenshooter says about the 311413! What looks good and we think should work is often a totally different story with cast bullets, especially when we push past 2000 fps. I also never could get anything close to what I considered acceptable accuracy let alone good accuracy above 1600 fps or so with the 311413 either.

Larry Gibson

[Thompsoncustom]

Like I said not really looking to do 3k fps I just figured if the bullet worked to 3k than it should be fine at 2500-2600 fps. Is that out of line? and for shorter range stuff I'm guessing the heaviest bullet for the 308 might work better but at 800 yards it would be dropping like a rock.

I have 6 or mold for 9mm so I'll end up getting a couple. Is 800 yards impossible with cast with out arcing it to the moon? Wouldnt mind some really heavy bullet recommendations to.

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

Like I said not really looking to do 3k fps I just figured if the bullet worked to 3k than it should be fine at 2500-2600 fps. Is that out of line?
You've mentioned this a couple times, it doesn't really work like that.
This is like asking what what kind of car body profile is good for 200 MPH, cuz I wanna drive 150 MPH. Just like the car needing all kinds of special things to get that body to travel 200 MPH or even 150 MPH...So does the Boolit. Larry said it well, this "requires a very specialized rifle, very specialized loads, very specialized loading techniques and very specialized and expensive equipment."

Goodsteel has a couple good "stickied" threads that should help you understand some more.

Matching the boolit to your rifle's chamber is probably the first task to getting MOA accuracy at 1600 FPS. Once your get there you can start working on speeding things up.
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?218414-FYI-This-is-how-I-do-a-pound-cast

another real good read is this.
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?158805-Just-a-few-tips-for-new-rifle-casters

[RoyEllis]

JMHO here, but if you want to shoot 2600fps & out to 800yds.....stay with jacketed, the (looooong) learning curve with cast will kill ya or turn you insane.:coffee:

[Thompsoncustom]

But a car designed to drive 200 mph should have no problems at 150. I would think it would be better to under drive the bullet design itselfs.

Don't have a rifle in 308 yet so that's up for debate. I've done a ton of special loads super heavy,light, zinc but that's all in 9mm so it doesn't really apply and I haven't reloaded any rilfe cartridges yet. As far as equipment I have quickoad and a chrono not sure what special stuff I need?

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

I did say car body...not car.
but that's beside the point, I guess.
Maybe my metaphoric example wasn't very good ?

Did you read both of the OP's from the two links I posted ?

You also mention, "I haven't reloaded any rilfe cartridges yet. "
any rifle cartridges? including with jacketed bullets ?
If so, be sure to read a good reloading manual like the current Lyman #49

Also, the first 30 pages of Col E. H. Harrison's "Cast Bullets" will be very helpful.
http://www.castpics.net/subsite2/ClassicWorks/CastBullets-s.pdf

[Blammer]

go for NOE's 311365 design, nice and sleek looking for those long range shots.

[TXGunNut]

In the cast boolit world there's considerable difference between 2500fps and 3000fps. With J-words it's not such a big deal, but boolits aren't J-words. It takes no small amount of expertise and equipment to get a boolit accurately to 2500fps, 3000fps is pretty heady stuff. Start with rifle loads around 1600-1800 and work up to 2000-2100fps for an initial goal.

[Bullshop]

You don't need 3000 fps to shoot a 308 accurately at long range. I shoot boolits in the 200/220 gn weight range at 2000/2100 fps and do some quite effective longe range shooting.
The one additional thing you will need though is a scope base with some added elevation built in.
I can get to 700 to 800 yards depending on the boolit weight and BC without the additional elevation but to get to 1000 most scopes wont have enough elevation adjustment.
In my scope with 10 mil spacing's below center it takes all my clicks and all ten mils in the ret. to get to 800. Beyond 800 I need a canted base to add some elevation.

[MT Gianni]

I believe bullet design wold fall far behind fit, bbl, lube and loading techniques.

[MarkP]

For curiosity purposes I wanted to see if I could get the NOE 311-247 gr to shoot in a Rem 700 chambered in 300 Wby 1:12" I pushed it up to 2,500 fps with mediocre results. The same boolit in a 300 SAUM 1:10" shot real well up to about 2,200 fps. At the ranges you are looking at boolit BC will have a larger influence than initial velocity.

[MBTcustom]

Sir, just to be clear, and to reiterate what Larry Gibson told you, we are not trying to cast stones at your goals. Your objective is worthy, but the way you have described what you want comes across a little flippant.
You have to understand that there are hoards of shooters who would tell you that shooting over 1800FPS is a complete waste of time and powder, besides which, if you intend to hunt, you are looking at making purple milkshake on the hoof out of your deer (see my signiture line) because cast boolits are so very much more effective on game than jacketed.

You see, speed is both the jacketed bullet's blessing and curse. The jacketed bullet can go 2700+ FPS, but the flip side to that is that it must in order to perform on game. Not so with the cast lead boolit. Cast lead is just the oposite. It can get the same job done at 1800fps, but the flip side is that (for your average cast booliteer) it must because accuracy will deteriorate.

As it is, the only limitation cast lead has is speed, which means that if you want to deliver energy to your game at extreme ranges, you pretty much have to use 45 caliber rifles and compensate for the way they drop like rocks.
This is conventional wisdom.
However, there are some of us who have undertaken the task of shooting high velocity cast boolits. The goal is to shoot a 30 caliber boolit to 2800FPS maintaining SUB2 MOA accuracy standard, over ten shots, with linear dispersion. (ie. practical accuracy). So far, there are very few who have been successful and they only got it done by using the most advanced loading techniques.
I personally have invested thousands of dollars and thousands of hours, blood and sweat trying to achieve this goal but have been frustrated hitherto. The best I have personally achieved was 2400FPS sub MOA 10 shot groups. I have done this many times but not with 30 caliber.

So you see, when you start a thread here asking (just as easy as you please) for a boolit design that will deliver 3000 fps because you figure it must be good for 2500, it's a little difficult to answer. As it is, I know of only one person who shot 30 caliber that fast, and he did it with a paper patched boolit which allows the boolit to exit the crown of your rifle with less damage, thereby allowing it to remain balanced so that it can take enormous RPM safely and accurately.

What I would encourage you to do is to start testing those powder coated boolits and teach us what you learn. There is a whole thread over in alternative coatings in which the participants are trying to achieve 1800 fps with accuracy and they have done so which is a huge victory. They could use your input and your results.

I would just like to congratulate you on deciding to persue such a lofty goal right off the bat. You are clearly a man who likes a challenge, and we need people like you who are interested in boldly going where angels fear to tread.
Please, I encourage you to read the "30 XCB from scratch" thread in Special Projects forum. It is devoted to the pursuit of what you seek.

[Thompsoncustom]

Well thanks for the the advice. goodsteel I read both of your write ups posted by JonB_in_Glencoe (http://castboolits.gunloads.com/member.php?13269-JonB_in_Glencoe) great info on measuring the chambers not something I would have ever thought of.

I guess I didn't think 2500fps was that crazy for a cast boolit. I know I could go with j-words but I'd probably cast up some more zinc bullets first to see how they did they just a big pain in the rear. I can drive a 130gr 9mm to 1700fps so driving a 308 to sub 2k just seems really weak even if I up the weight to above 200grs.

I'm not against paperpatching and played with it a little in 9mm not for accuracy tho more or less just to see how it worked. I do like a challenge but as hard is everyone says it is I'll probably start with the heaviest for the caliber and push it slow and see how things go.

[leadman]

I have shot the 30-06 for velocity and accuracy with the 311041 (173grs) and the Lee 200gr RN. Both were gas checked and cast from linotype. The top velocities were about 2,550 fps which is full jacketed bullet velocity. The 311041 was lubed with Carnuba Red and required brushing the debris out of the barrel every 5 shots. The Lee 200gr was coated with the Hi-Tek Gold 1035 coating. Shot this 20 times and the bore was still shiny. Accuracy with the 311041 was under moa, with the Lee less than 2 moa.
For hunting a softer alloy should be used and then heat treated to take the velocity. The softer alloy like COWW will still be maleable and expand some, the lino will probably shatter.

I have tried the lighter boolits in the 150gr range but they do not seem to shoot as well as the heavier boolits.

[MBTcustom]

Well thanks for the the advice. goodsteel I read both of your write ups posted by JonB_in_Glencoe (http://castboolits.gunloads.com/member.php?13269-JonB_in_Glencoe) great info on measuring the chambers not something I would have ever thought of.

I guess I didn't think 2500fps was that crazy for a cast boolit. I know I could go with j-words but I'd probably cast up some more zinc bullets first to see how they did they just a big pain in the rear. I can drive a 130gr 9mm to 1700fps so driving a 308 to sub 2k just seems really weak even if I up the weight to above 200grs.

I'm not against paperpatching and played with it a little in 9mm not for accuracy tho more or less just to see how it worked. I do like a challenge but as hard is everyone says it is I'll probably start with the heaviest for the caliber and push it slow and see how things go.

I thought that might be the case, and on that note, I have several things to tell you.
1. Many people have found good results with green bar continuous printer paper. I have quite a bit of this stuff and if you intend to get into patching, I will send you some. Also, check out the stickys in smokeless paper patching forum. I did a pictorial demonstration in one of those threads which shows how I wrap, and it may be of some help to you. Also, you should get "the Paper Jacket" and read it. Good stuff there that will be very pertinent to your shooting paper patch.
Read the stickies, read the book, use the right paper and you can cut years (dare I say decades?) Off your learning curve. A few years ago, a member here named Geargnasher did exactly what I am saying and he was shooting sub MOA with a 270 in a very short period of time!

2. Don't get discouraged. Nobody here told you it was impossible. Nobody even told you it was impossible for you. It is very possible, and there is a whole world of possibilities out there.
Its just that you stand before us a reloader and a shooter, but we will make you into a booliteer. There is a difference.
A booliteer is to the shooting sports what a Ranger is to the army. The Ranger can do everything that an enlisted man can do but he does it better. Your expert knowledge of the shooting sports awaits within your lead pot. The silver stream both frustrates us and challenges us. The silver stream also meets you where you are and demands that you do better. When I was just 15 and was enjoying the heck out of smearing lead over the tops of my dad's molds and shooting the ratty looking lumps into paper at 100 yards, the lead was my teacher. Now that I am casting with my own molds made by the top moldsmiths and doing what I thought impossible 10 years ago, the lead is still challenging me.
Everybody starts somewhere, but eventually, this becomes so much more than just getting cheap ammo to make your twist-pipe go bang; it becomes a scientific exercise to find out what the rules are. The barrier of looking for cheap easy shooting is what keeps the secrets secret. Behind that curtain lies a whole world of challenging pursuits that is deep and wide enough to keep even my scattered, OCD ADD mind completely saturated.
The object is simple, but the implementation is very very difficult, and the sort of thing that some call impossible, and a breaking of the accepted limits is considered magic.
Well I've got news for you: Merlin the magician was nothing more than a practical scientist with a brain surrounded by impractical people with swords.
That could be you!

3. The things that you learn from the silver stream are very applicable to shooting jacketed bullets, and if you apply the same methods to jacketed shooting, you will be able to speak intelligently with bench rest shooters about precision reloading, and you might even teach them a thing or two, because you can see things that they will never observe.
Shooting cast is the same equation, but it magnifies and intensifies every little quirk that a projectile has. This all applies across the board.

4. In all you do, remember that there is no "magic pill" that will give you all you want. That's what everybody wishes there was, but such a thing does not exist. The magic pill lies between your ears.
There is no one boolit that will do what you want it to do. Even if someone came on here and told you that such and such a boolit with such and such a lube, alloy, GC, powder, primer, rifle, etc etc etc, worked for their situation, that has absolutely no bearing on your rifle whatsoever.
I can speak intelligently about this subject. I build precision rifles, but even though they will all perform very similarly with jacketed bullets, each will have it's own preferences with cast (although they will be close). This coming from me, and I build rifles painstakingly one at a time. There is a better chance of killing a whale with a snowball than to get two factory rifles that will perform exactly the same with the same load at high velocity (at least I haven't found it yet).
Why else do you suppose so many of us buy a rifle only to sell it or purchase another one just like it? Because each has their own personality (incidentally, each of my rifles has a name for this reason, and most of my clients rifles have a shop name that is used as they are built here. It just happens. LOL!)

[jhalcott]

I tried for 3000 fps with cast boolits just to see if it WAS possible. I found it was, but RECOIL in larger calibers hurt me! Harder alloys (lino and harder) become destructive at such speeds, often not reaching the target at 100 yards. I tried paper patching and Teflon taping with so-so results. I got a bunch of Sabots for the 30 caliber case that held .224 diameter bullets. I achieved a modicum of success with these. Occasional fliers still plagued me. I THINK the sabots were "sticking" to the boolits causing the fliers, but can not prove it. Just remember, a 3000 fps pure lead slug CAN penetrate a 1/4" steel plate at 100 yards.
Also, the short neck of the .308 win case is not the best for cast bullet shooting. Having a barrel made specifically for this project might be a good idea. A 7mm or 8mm Mauser case necked to 30 caliber would provide a longer (supporting) neck. Using a 30-06 rifle I have shot the 311041, 311291 and 311466 & 7 TO EXTREME YARDAGES AT targets

[Thompsoncustom]

Here's a question in the opposite direction. How heavy can you go in 308? 220gr, 250gr, 300? I figure if I'm gonna start slow and work up I might as well get the heaviest hitter for the slower speeds.

Now what ever the limit is whats the reason? With a long case like the 308? In 9mm you run out of case capacity over 170gr pretty quick but I would think case capacity wouldn't be the problem here.

[MBTcustom]

What kind of throat do you have in that rifle?

You are limited at the rear by the tentative neccesisty to keep the GC in the neck of the case, and you are limited to the front by your throat.

Check out the boolits designed for the 300 Black Out cartridge. 220 grains is common, however, unless you ream out the throat of your rifle, you're not going to be able to get those big donkey's in your rifle.

If you have a standard 308, you need to stick to a standard 150-180 grain boolit. There are no quick dirty answers here. You will need to educate yourself. buy the Lyman reloading handbook 49th edition and read the front of the book first (don't laugh, I read it all the time and still sometimes get something out of it).

My recommendation would be to buy a 311466 mold from one of our custom mold makers. Buy it the correct size for your rifle. Read what I have written in order to determine this (not trying to pat myself on the back or anything, but I wrote what I did for a reason ie. so guys like me could understand it.)

Search out and find yourself some Aliant Unique powder. Just buy one pound and 1000 primers.
That will get you to 1800fps with accuracy, and when you are comfortably able to stab 10 shots in an inch at 100 yards with that, the 311466 is the boolit you need if you intend to push faster. Just change powders, start low, and push up till you run out of fun.
Then do it again with a different powder.
Fun stuff!

[swheeler]

Well thanks for the the advice. goodsteel I read both of your write ups posted by JonB_in_Glencoe (http://castboolits.gunloads.com/member.php?13269-JonB_in_Glencoe) great info on measuring the chambers not something I would have ever thought of.

I guess I didn't think 2500fps was that crazy for a cast boolit. I know I could go with j-words but I'd probably cast up some more zinc bullets first to see how they did they just a big pain in the rear. I can drive a 130gr 9mm to 1700fps so driving a 308 to sub 2k just seems really weak even if I up the weight to above 200grs.

I'm not against paperpatching and played with it a little in 9mm not for accuracy tho more or less just to see how it worked. I do like a challenge but as hard is everyone says it is I'll probably start with the heaviest for the caliber and push it slow and see how things go.

That sure seems FAST to me!

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

Here's a question in the opposite direction. How heavy can you go in 308? 220gr, 250gr, 300? I figure if I'm gonna start slow and work up I might as well get the heaviest hitter for the slower speeds.

Now what ever the limit is whats the reason? With a long case like the 308? In 9mm you run out of case capacity over 170gr pretty quick but I would think case capacity wouldn't be the problem here.

Besides what goodsteel said, when you go to an extreme heavy, you have a longer boolit and you need a faster twist barrel to stabilize a long boolit. I don't know what twist rate your rifle is, but even if I did, my knowledge of "where the line is" is just non-existant in 30 cal.

How about getting your feet wet first by trying something in the middle of the road (weightwise) with a goal of 1 MOA, that's actually a lofty goal for a beginner to reloading rifle. I like the Lee 170gr FN.
Good Luck,
Jon

[Bullwolf]

"Get a 311413"! I don't know about others here, but I've tried a lot of different things to get that bullet to shoot accurately above 1600. Harder alloys, slower powders, etc. Even at 2000fps you'll likely be hitting a couple targets away from your point of aim at 100yds.

As all the others have mentioned, what looks like it should work, and what really does work are often two completely different things.

Pardon my sloppy photography, but here's a couple pics of my old Ideal 311413. It was gifted to me in somewhat rough condition as the pictures show.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=52390&d=1305607711

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=52391&d=1305607711

Try doing search for the 311413 and Squib, and read the results that the search returns.

I've often heard the Ideal 311413 described as the original squib boolit. This was back in the time when squib was a term that referred more to a slow traveling boolit, like a plinker load, bunny load, or mouse fart load instead of as a bore obstruction.

The Ideal 311413 looks like a typical conventional pointy noise FMJ, and you might think that it would perform well simply based on that. Unfortunately it operates very poorly for most at higher velocities. In my experience, if you restrict yourself to 1200 FPS or less you are much more likely to find anything resembling decent accuracy while using it. Maybe my cast rifle Mojo is just not up to par, but I never had any kind of success shooting that boolit at higher velocities, in any of the different rifles that I tried it with.

If I was smarter, I probably would have unloaded the mould during the "Great Ebay boolit mould shortage" when things were going for ridiculous prices. Sadly, I have become somewhat attached to the silly thing.

Notice that the 311413 also has an unsupported nose that will readily slump. I have better luck using more of a bore rider design. Try looking at another boolit design than the 311413. There have been many other better performing suggestions made in this thread, by our more experienced high velocity cast boolit rifle shooters.




- Bullwolf

[aspangler]

It took me a LONG time to get my 30-06 to shoot at 2300 fps. I changed alloy, molds, powder, seating depth, primers, you name it. I finally got to my goal with 1 moa accuracy just last week. I work the load down and vowed never to do that again. 1800-2000 is plenty fast to hunt or punch paper. JMHO

[Thompsoncustom]

Twist rate is something else I never worried about in 9mm my guns ran 60gr to 170gr just fine so I never bothered with the twist rate.

I took a look at the 300 black out mold and maybe I'll just pick one up to see if it runs but say the gun has a 1/10 twist rate wouldn't the bullet be heavy for the twist? Would it still work sub 200 yards?

1700fps is really fast in a 9mm well above major loads. I don't run a gas check on the 9mm so do that mean at 1700fps with a 308 I don't need one?

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

1700fps is really fast in a 9mm well above major loads. I don't run a gas check on the 9mm so do that mean at 1700fps with a 308 I don't need one?
When I shoot rifle boolits without a GC, I've never gotten the accuracy I desire. my most recent endeavor with that was 223rem and a plain base boolit, and the best I seen was 3" groups at 50 yds. Now I haven't played with non-gas checked 30 cal, so maybe that is different?
Jon

[Thompsoncustom]

Hmmm thanks for the info. Were those bullet coated or lubed? I see people are doing both to for increased accuracy over PC.

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

Mine were TL'd with 45-45-10
http://i640.photobucket.com/albums/uu127/JonB_in_Glencoe/454510closeup.jpg (http://s640.photobucket.com/user/JonB_in_Glencoe/media/454510closeup.jpg.html)

[dualsport]

IMHO shooting the old 311413 is a project all in itself. I've found all the stories about it being inaccurate at any decent velocity to be true. Some of us just see red and charge away I guess. I've oven heat treated them, mixed up super hard alloys, etc. I keep my old single cavity 311413 out of stubbornness anticipating the next round. No cigars. Now the old SAECO #315 is another story.

[Moonie]

In my 30-06 with 1-10" the Accurate molds 245gr GC boolit shoots very well at 1,950fps. I'm not interested in higher velocities but was at one time and was involved in paper patching back in the early 90's with a 7mm magnum and 445 SuperMagnum. I achieved good results with the rifle at higher velocities and with softer lead with no gas checks at very high velocity with the 445. The Paper Jacket is a great book to have for paper patching and high velocity. The NRA tested paper patching with a 300 magnum and was able to get 3,000fps with good accuracy, as the guys have said, it takes a PHD to get there and special techniques but it can be done. The real question is do you really need to.

As a seasoned cast boolit shooter I no longer want to push a cartridge to the ragged edge and I am quite pleased with loads that do what I need and don't beat me and the equipment up.

I've discovered that paper targets really don't know the difference between 1,950fps and 2,900fps.

Good luck in your quest, the guys here will do our best to help you reach whatever goal you wish, even if the advice we give pushes you in another direction. We are all here because we love cast boolits and want to learn more.

[Thompsoncustom]

Thanks for all the advice guys, I now have purchased a rifle (ar-10 DPMS Recon) I think I'm gonna attack this is two different ways. First I'll get a heavy blackout mold probably the 230gr and powdercoat the bullets and try to develop an accurate load somewhere between 1400/1800fps.

Next after I'm more comfortable loading the 308 I'll get into paper patching and than try to get a accurate 147gr going around 2600/2800fps.

[huntersdog]

I would be very careful venturing down that lane that just sounds dangerous.

[Bullshop]

Dangerous in what way?

[singleshot]

TC, what is your goal exactly? I've read the thread twice and can't tell what you're ACTUALLY trying to accomplish. Is this just an exercise of "can I"? Or is it something else?

I once thought kinda like you, if J-words of such-and-such weight can travel at x velocity, I must duplicate with cast, right? Otherwise the load is too wimpy, right? :-)

Think again! A cast boolit of proper design can accomplish WAY MORE with WAY LESS energy than its J-word counterpart. I recently made up some 200 grain cast for my 7.62x54R and went to test them. I set up a 2' long 18" diameter log length ways and two rows of 6-8" diameter logs behind thinking "no way leads gettin' through all that!" The loads were running right at 1600 fps with wcww. The first shot, I saw an annoying dust cloud kick up behind the target, but ignored it thinking it was wind or something. After the 3rd shot, I realized all my boolits were sailing right thru ALL the wood! Yes, that's right! A check on the logs showed 30 cal holes in the front and out the back of about 3 feet of cedar!

Later I tried to duplicate this with FULL POWER FMJs! FAIL! Not one penetrated the whole setup. Why you ask? Good question!

The quest for the answer will show you how much more effective cast lead boolits are for almost any task most of us will ever call upon them for. Velocity is one exception, though I can come pretty close with PP'd boolits.

If you're just trying to punch paper at long range, you may find it easier at subsonic velocities until you get over 2400 fps, especially with cast.

In any case, enjoy the journey!