Problem with FFL dealer transfers

[abunaitoo]

I'm trying to find a FFL dealer to transfer a firearm.
The person that used to do it for me, no longer does it.
The shop that I've used before, no longer does it.
Called four other shops, and they don't do it anymore.
Is there something that has changed with transfers????
I have a C&R, but it's no good for what I'm trying to get.

[GL49]

Not in my area as far as I know. One shop says "put it in the mail directly to us, even if from a private individual", we'll accept it. Another says "mail it directly to us, even if from a private individual, but email us a copy of your drivers license so we know you're a real person". Both firearms were shipped from the east coast to Oregon. This is the way it was a month ago.

[oneokie]

Rummage around here: http://www.gunbroker.com/FFL/DealerNetwork.aspx you may find a shop.

[mrvmax]

I do transfers and average about $20 per transfer. If you look at the time I expend for that one transfer it is not always worth the time (e-mails back and forth to shipping dealer, time spent dealing with the shipping company, opening up and disposing of packaging, logging info into bound book, time spent with customer to do paperwork etc.). Also consider that the profit margins on new firearms is slim and there are places online that will undersell. When you buy online you are taking profit from the local dealer since 9 times out of 10 you can find it online cheaper, whether due to lowball dealers selling for 1-2% over cost online or not paying sales tax(yes I have seen guns purchased online that were 1-2% over cost). I did a transfer today on a Browning A5 that was purchased online for $1300 shipped - my cost for that gun is $1260 and I could never touch that price and make a 5% profit on it. I could make $60 off a sale but instead I have to settle for $20 for the transfer. Some dealers refuse to do transfers since they want you to buy their inventory so they get the profit from the sale.

[RickinTN]

Not sure if Hawaii is getting to be like California or not but a couple of years ago I had a fellow in California wanting to purchase a rifle from me. He checked every dealer within 50 miles of his home and none of them would do the transfer. This was on an out of production used rifle, so no competition there.
Rick

[MaryB]

My dealer has no problem doing a transfer for me, but he will often match whatever price I can find on new guns, add on the shipping and fee and I pay that to him instead. So if I find an AR as an example for $900, pay $35 shipping, $25 fee, he will sell it t me for $960 and then I have his warranty which is lifetime for any guns I buy from his inventory. Used stuff is a different story, he often won't have something similar and can't get it.

[abunaitoo]

The one place that might do it, charges $55 to do it.
Thanks for the link "oneokie". I found another place that I emailed to see if he would do it.
He post that he charges $40.

[osteodoc08]

I do transfers and average about $20 per transfer. If you look at the time I expend for that one transfer it is not always worth the time (e-mails back and forth to shipping dealer, time spent dealing with the shipping company, opening up and disposing of packaging, logging info into bound book, time spent with customer to do paperwork etc.). Also consider that the profit margins on new firearms is slim and there are places online that will undersell. When you buy online you are taking profit from the local dealer since 9 times out of 10 you can find it online cheaper, whether due to lowball dealers selling for 1-2% over cost online or not paying sales tax(yes I have seen guns purchased online that were 1-2% over cost). I did a transfer today on a Browning A5 that was purchased online for $1300 shipped - my cost for that gun is $1260 and I could never touch that price and make a 5% profit on it. I could make $60 off a sale but instead I have to settle for $20 for the transfer. Some dealers refuse to do transfers since they want you to buy their inventory so they get the profit from the sale.

I will always buy from my LGS on a current production gun. Always. He charges me $50-$75 over his cost. No problem. A guys gotta eat. He also does free tansfers for me and when shipping, doesnt upcharge. I typically round it up to the next $10 and call it a day. He's happy, I'm happy. He also calls me when cool stuff comes in he thinks I'll be interested in. He knows I love my wheelguns and lever actions. I scored a nice 686 no dash for a steal a month ago.

[snowwolfe]

Its amazing how good of a rapport you can build with the LGS if you and the owner are both credible and you support the store. When I lived in Alaska we had a small shop in our home town called Boondocks and all I needed to do was to stop in and tell them what I wanted and they would get it as soon as possible at a very good price. No hassle, no muss, just good professional service. I never had to worry about their pricing and never fought to get the last dime off either. In return, anytime I ordered something online that they didn't carry or was purchased used they only charged $25 per transfer. I miss that type of relationship.

[WILCO]

Ready on the Right
301 Kailua Road
Kailua, HI 96734
(808) 261-6588

Closed Sun, Mon, Tues

FFL Transfer $30 each piece, Al Mongeon, mongeona001@hawaii.rr.com

[WILCO]

Daniel @ Kaneohe Gun Shop
Honolulu Firearms & Range
Gun Source

[WILCO]

FFL Transfer Solutions


We can help with all your firearm transfer needs!


We offer a full line of affordable and dependable FFL services.
Please download our FFL transfer form (http://www.gunsourcehawaii.com/v/vspfiles/assets/images/ffl.pdf), complete the form and either return to our office, email, or FAX to us.

Contact Us
Our experienced customer service team can help you find exactly what you are looking for and provide advice on all firearms and accessories.
Location:GunSource
2357 S. Beretania St.
Unit C/D
Honolulu, HI, 96826
(808) 944-3850
info@gunsourcehawaii.com (info@gunsourcehawaii.com)
Operating Hours:

Monday
10:00 - 4:00


Tuesday
10:00 - 4:00


Wednesday
10:00 - 4:00



Thursday
CLOSED


Friday
10:00 - 4:00


Saturday
10:00 - 3:00


Sunday
CLOSED


Closed on all Federal and Hawaii State Holidays
Contact us for more information about our products and services.

[WILCO]

Honolulu, HI FFL Dealers(B) Mr. Craig Randall Akina
Tel: 2212123296819
1212-J. Richard Ln.
Honolulu, HI 96819
Transfer Fees: 20% + S&H

[tomme boy]

mrvmax, if $20 for 15 minutes tops of your time is not worth it, you need to be in another business. If a dealer refuses to do transfers, that is his loss. $20 or what ever is better than sitting on his butt and not selling anything.

[knifemaker]

In my area of Northern CA. most FFLs will accept transfers, but the going rate on fees is $50.00 to make it worth while to do all the paperwork. We get a few gougers that want 75-100 bucks, but they are noted for high prices on everything in their shop.

[tomme boy]

Paperwork???????? It takes 5 minutes at the most to write down the rifle. They are just scamming everyone!

[MaryB]

Yup support your local guy and you get first dibs on goodies like 22lr when it comes in. Got 2 525 round bricks for $30 each. He knows I buy from him as much as possible and he returns the favor.


I will always buy from my LGS on a current production gun. Always. He charges me $50-$75 over his cost. No problem. A guys gotta eat. He also does free tansfers for me and when shipping, doesnt upcharge. I typically round it up to the next $10 and call it a day. He's happy, I'm happy. He also calls me when cool stuff comes in he thinks I'll be interested in. He knows I love my wheelguns and lever actions. I scored a nice 686 no dash for a steal a month ago.

[Adam10mm]

Paperwork???????? It takes 5 minutes at the most to write down the rifle. They are just scamming everyone!
You clearly don't understand the FFL side of transfers.

[dtknowles]

Paperwork???????? It takes 5 minutes at the most to write down the rifle. They are just scamming everyone!

Every transaction needs to help cover the overhead of running the business, labor is not the only expense. They have to negotiate the deal with you, fax the ffl to the shipper, receive the shipment and record the transfer, do your form when you come to pick up the firearm and make to call for the background check. Run the cash register when you pay, print you a receipt and update their record to show the gun left with you. That is if all goes well. What if the gun is damaged or your background check is denied or delayed.


My local shop charged me $50 and I think that is kind of high and they charge more for more expensive guns. The shop I used to use went out of business, used to charge less but was unpredictable about the price. The old shop gave me free lead and deals on ammo and had better selection of used guns but now is gone. New place has very little and mostly caters to Cops.

Tim

[Adam10mm]

I used to do transfers because it was income without capital investment. Now I don't do them anymore. Taking the proverbial $20 for 15 minutes of paperwork, it's still not worth my time and takes me away from the more profitable activities of my business. I make more profit with less time making ammunition or assembling AR15 rifles than I do with transfers. I'm in this business to make the most money I can. Doing transfers isn't the way. For me, loading ammunition and assembling ARs is. An hour loading the .300 Blackout and selling it wholesale nets me $361 profit. Transfers are a waste of my time.

[mrvmax]

Paperwork???????? It takes 5 minutes at the most to write down the rifle. They are just scamming everyone!

You reveal your ignorance of what needs to be done, it takes more than five minutes for all the paperwork involved. If it is such a scam then go ahead and get your FFL and start doing transfers, just let us know when you get rich off of it since you can do one every five minutes.

[mrvmax]

mrvmax, if $20 for 15 minutes tops of your time is not worth it, you need to be in another business. If a dealer refuses to do transfers, that is his loss. $20 or what ever is better than sitting on his butt and not selling anything.

If you explain to me your successful firearms business thus proving that you actually have some industry insight I will listen to your advice. You have no idea how much I make per hour at my full time job (FYI I make 4 times as much as I do selling firearms) and whether $20 per hour is enough. It is not $20 for 15 minutes of work, I already posted that it was much more involved than that. From your comments it appears you have no idea what you are talking about since there is a lot more to it than doing transfers all day long and making $20 per hour doing it. If you can make any business successful by grossing $20 per hour then we all need to be listening to you.

[mrvmax]

The whole problem is that most people think they know about everything involved in selling firearms when in fact they do not understand what goes into it. People think $20 per transfer will be sufficient and may even seem excessive. When you figure in all the costs of operating a firearms business the $20 per transfer is not even enough to break even. I am all for a free market but in the end it will end up providing less choices for consumers to buy from, the mom and pop stores cannot compete with larger chains and online dealers with pricing. We think it is great for Buds Gun Shop, Grab a Gun and other online dealers to sell to us for barely over cost. In reality this will close down all the others that cannot compete and then prices will go back up when competition drops off. There are far too many firearms consumers that will complain over a few dollars, trust me, I see this from other FFL's across the US. There is a lot of risk involved in selling firearms, not only legally but financially due to scammers. It is a well known practice for people to pay by credit card, get the firearm or accessories and then do a chargeback. This not only costs the FFL the cost of the firearm but they pay a fee for the chargeback to the credit card company (and people wonder why there are FFL's that do not accept credit cards). There are also consumers that will order the wrong part and refuse to pay the restocking fee to cover shipping costs and their ignorance (even though they agreed to this policy when purchasing). They get mad, due a chargeback and stick the dealer with another loss. How about the consumer that is mad for whatever reason and will not allow the FFL to make things right. This idiot goes on a rampage and posts false, negative comments on every forum this mall ninja is a member of. The FFL has to waste more time telling the real story and to protect his reputation. You may say these are isolated but in reality it is not. I could go on with other problems and things FFL's deal with but nobody really cares, all people care about is getting cheap firearms. Like another poster stated, get to know your LGS and develop a relationship with them. 9 time out of 10 they will treat you right (and yes, there are FFL's that are buttheads too, I know of a couple off the top of my head).

[Wayne Smith]

Around here $40 is about normal for a transfer and I thank that is completely fair. I simply add that cost to my bid in my mine and it is part of the total I am willing to bid. Unless I can use my FFL03!

[dilly]

I know I often wind up spending more money than just the transfer fee when I go in and get a firearm from my FFL. I often pick up some ammo, magazines, accessories, reloading supplies, etc. Maybe that's not much, but FFL transfers are a way to get people going through your doors.

[tomme boy]

You guys saying that $20 for 15 min of paperwork is not worth it then you don't have a clue. First of all, Have the customer FAX the FFL. Here, I have a carry license so that takes care of my NICs check. It takes less than 5 min to check in and write down the info for where the gun came from. 5 minutes on avg for the person to fill out the 4473. Then another 5 min to log out the gun. Yes I do know how the business works. Clinton took care of that back in the 90's running it out of the basement.

So it is not $20/ hr. It can be much more than that. It is just a part of the business. Thats what needs to be said. Strictly gun shops in this area are failing. You have do do more than just a gun shop. So turning down business is your own fault and in the end will be your doing in. And the AR15 and 300BKO is just a fad and will be over in a year or two. It is a joke that never should have started. So you need to expand on more than that. AR15's are so plentiful now they are sitting on the shelfs and can not hardly be sold.

I give the local dealer a chance on selling me stuff. I want them to just get close. Some will others will not budge. Guess which one is still in business. Making a little money is better than making NONE!

[Bad Water Bill]

Buy a gun across the state line and pay their state tax.

Now the LOCAL bandit takes over.

$50.00 FFL fee.

Then he takes the TOTAL price you paid including their state tax and adds your state tax + since you paid the local tax in Crook county he adds in the $25.00 GANGSTER HOSPITAL FEE.

Last but not least is the NICS fee of $5.00.

He also has CASES of 22LR in stock.

Only available to buyers of one of his 22LR firearms and for the low price of $50.00 for 1 brick only.

No I do not buy locally.:bigsmyl2:

[Adam10mm]

You guys saying that $20 for 15 min of paperwork is not worth it then you don't have a clue.
I make more money in the same amount of time by doing something else, yet I'm the one that doesn't have a clue?


First of all, Have the customer FAX the FFL. Here, I have a carry license so that takes care of my NICs check.
ATF does not want non-FFLs to have a copy of someone's FFL. Carry licenses also cover as a NICS exemption.


It is just a part of the business. Thats what needs to be said.
Depends on your business model. I know of several FFLs that don't do transfers yet break $2+ million in sales every year and are growing.


Strictly gun shops in this area are failing. You have do do more than just a gun shop.
That's all over the country and for a lot more reasons than transfers. Even when I did transfers, the percentage of income compared to other revenue streams, transfers was my lowest.


And the AR15 and 300BKO is just a fad and will be over in a year or two. It is a joke that never should have started. So you need to expand on more than that. AR15's are so plentiful now they are sitting on the shelfs and can not hardly be sold.
I load more cartridges than just the 300 BLK. The 300 BLK is my most profitable so that's what I focus on. I don't care if it's a fad or not (though the 300 Whisper has been around over 40 years). I've been making solid money loading it for years and will continue to do so until something more profitable comes along. The ARs I make are SBRs and machine guns, so it's a niche in the industry and more profitable than Title I ARs.

[MaryB]

My LGS does well selling guns and ammo and accessories. But he also makes custom AR's, does gunsmithing, does transfers, showcases my engraving stuff for me...

[Duckiller]

tomme you are a nice person but you are living in a dream world. In "May Issue" states lots of Sheriffs don't issue concealed carry permits and the permit doesn't substitue for an NICIc checks are done through check. I expect someone doing a transfer to talk to me a little bit. Probably takes at least 30 minutes to do a transfer. The firearm has to be transferred on to the FFLs books then transferred out as the result of the sale. What the FFL is doing is buiying the gun from another dealer and selling to you. I know that you found the gun and fronted the sale money but the dealer has to process as a sale. In my state NIC checks are done through our Department of Justice (Attorney General's Office) Mandated by law, no choice in the matter. They have been known to clear a purchase then unclear it. Works only if the firearm hasn't been delivered to its new owner. There is a very good reason WalMart gave up theior FFLs in California . My local shop charges $ 75.00 for transfers and my #2 son worked fulll time their for several years and works partime at shows for them now. You can make a small fortune in a gun shop, just start out with a large fortune.

[TXGunNut]

I did business with a LGS for over 30 years, we got to be pretty good friends. I even helped out behind the counter when things got busy. If I wanted something, he found it for me and shopped for the best deal. I might have been able to save a little money buying from online dealers but I doubt it. He did transfers for customers but more than once he showed me where he could have saved the transferee some money. He's gone now but I've gotten pretty friendly with the folks at Cabelas, they treat me right even if I do have to help pay their overhead. They'll transfer a used gun from another store for less than I can get it shipped, I even buy a new gun now and then if it's on sale.