update on timber busting loads

[smlekid]

Hi all thought I'd update the timber busting question I'd asked about awhile back
we shot the event today 3 of us using No1 Mk111 Lithgow SMLE's using lead boolits I had loaded up 12 grs of Red Dot with the NOE 316365 cast with 50/50 Pb WW 2 rifles used this load and I used an Accurate Moulds 31-185J cast with 50 50 as well but used 16gr of Blue dot with this boolit end result was we managed to knock the post down in 45 seconds which was good enough for 2nd place overall not a bad result for quite mild loads!
the winning team used a couple of lever action 12g shotguns and slugs as well as big calibre rifles (45/70) they got there's down in 37 seconds
thought you guys might be interested

[Janoosh]

Very nice. Did you modify the boolits at all.? I mean creating a flat tip on the nose.

[smlekid]

Very nice. Did you modify the boolits at all.? I mean creating a flat tip on the nose.
No as cast I will post a picture of one of the 316365 I recovered when I get a chance

[Blackwater]

When you've been around as long as I have, and read as much as I have, and listened to the stories around the campfire and gun shops, about the subject of "brush busting," you just HAVE to note that .... well, t'ain't no such thing, or at least, if there is, it ain't as good as we'd really LIKE for it to be. Jack O'Connor wrote an article long ago about this very subject, complete with pics of target results from some pretty thorough tests he'd run. Included were 12 ga. slugs, .458 Win., and I can't quite recollect satisfactorily the other calibers, but they MAY have been .375 H&H or .338 WM, '06 or .270 and (IIRC) a .243. The .243 fragmented before reaching the target often, proving pretty useless if there's intervening brush in the way of your shot. However, some friends have proven time and time again that its flat shooting performance makes it good at shooting through the holes in the brush, IF the deer offers up his vitals in that sometimes very small "hole" in the brush. Any small, fast caliber will perform pretty similarly, in my experience. The '06 and/or .270's did a bit better, but nothing like what you'd want to bank on for your venison supper. Still no brass ring. The .458 did moderately well, but still showed considerable variation from line of sight with what could only be described as "medium" sized intervening brush. The 12 ga. slug did best of all, but even that huge, slow, lumbering, blunt projectile STILL showed more variation from line of sight than one could honestly feel confidence in unless the target is pretty close behind the brush (close enough that the ANGLE of dispersion was short enough to minimize deviance from line of sight).

I've done some tests myself, and found that the faster spinning bullets do significantly better than the slower spinning ones. For instance, a .270/130 gr. outdid an '06/165 gr. bullet - enough that it'd make a difference sometimes. However, neither inspired anything you could call confidence. It was more a matter of how BAD you'd miss a deer, or worse, wound it.
Squeezing the next one off, I was both pleased and relieved when the buck folded up as I'd THOUGHT it should have at the first shot.

This taught me a valuable lesson that more real sportsmen need to know: DON'T SHOOT THROUGH BRUSH!!! WAIT FOR AN OPEN SHOT OR ANOTHER DAY IF THE SHOT'S NOT OPEN AND SURE.

Uncharacteristically for me, I've stuck with that resolution and discovery ever since, and I'm glad I have. It has helped me wait until I've gotten a decent shot, and probably saved several deer from being wounded and dying a death I don't like to think about .... and no other real sportsman likes to think about, either. After all, respect and understanding of our game is the ONLY thing that keeps it, or CAN keep it, plentiful and available. Seeing to their needs - food, etc. - is the only thing that keeps our beloved sport alive. Knowing our guns' capabilities is just a part of that, and keeping within those limitations is our DUTY. This isn't just an "opinion." It's a FACT, proven through experience and clearly evident facts and phenomena.

[dondiego]

....................uhhhhhh............he wants to destroy the wooden post before the other guy. He is not shooting deer.

[Janoosh]

The contest is to see which team can split the board/plank/timber in half...first. Not really related to hunting in brush/timber. I thought a wide, flat nose boolit would chew out more wood. Perhaps a wide, flat nose, soft boolit would be better. I have a number of 58 cal moulds, called the "Flying Ash/ trash can", for this sport.

[Moonie]

I'm thinking an AR in 450, 458 or 50 would be great for this...

[longbow]

I once "pruned" a very large branch off a very large birch tree using a .45-70.

My mother has some property where a tree close to the house had a large branch was threating the roof and it was in an awkward spot. We had a guy who supposedly knew his way around trees with a chainsaw but he declined so I went and got my Marlin and proceeded to shoot a line of boolits through a branch about 10" or 12" diameter. Didn't take long before the branch was on the ground.

Needless to say the nearest neighbours are about a mile away in the opposite direction and mountain straight in front of the shot.

Size matters but I think boolit placement is more important (as usual). A neat line of nicely spaced .30 cal would likely be more effective than a messy line of .45's.

Longbow

[jonp]

As many articles have been written about "brush causing bullets to deflect" as have that brush does not cause them to deflect.

[longbow]

There is a definite difference between timber busting/pruning and shooting through brush while hunting.

As already stated, shooting through brush at living things is a bad idea regardless of what boolit is involved. Now if it was a two legged critter shooting back at you then the rules might change on taking a chance.

However, for this kind of timber busting/stake shooting things are different. Cut that sucker off as fast as you can!

Longbow

[paul edward]

Please tell us more about the timber targets. Dimensions? What kind of wood? What distance?

[smlekid]

http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i193/smlekid/001-2.jpg (http://s72.photobucket.com/user/smlekid/media/001-2.jpg.html)
Hi guys thanks for the replies
hopefully there is a picture in this post from left to right Accurate Moulds 31-185J middle is a NOE 316365 and right is a recovered NOE boolit all cast with 50/50 PB WW the NOE boolit was loaded with 12grs of Red Dot the 31-185J with 16grs of Blue Dot
the interesting thing was the amount of gas checks I found in and around the timber
as for the event it was actually 3 different wood chops first up was a 22 rim fire event open to any 22 calibre pistol or rifle the timber was a plank from the top of a pallet shot at 15 meters I think the winning time was around 90 seconds
second event was a 4" round pine post at 15m this was restricted to centre fire hand guns only winning time was a touch over 60 seconds
the 3rd event was an open event any (legal) firearm could be used this was shot at 25m using a 7-8" pine post the winning time was 37 seconds this team used a lever action 12g with slugs and 2 458 win mag rifles
my team using 303's managed to drop the post in 45 seconds and I'll bet our shoulders felt a might bit happier!!!

[smlekid]

way back before the use of semi auto rifles and semi auto and pump action shot guns was banned in Australia 12g pumps and auto's were the favoured guns for these events with quite a few 308 semi auto rifles
from my limited experience in these events the most important thing is to HIT THE POST it is amusing watching 60- 70 rounds go down range with not much damage happening to the post
we just made sure our rifle were all hitting the same point of aim it seems to work well when you all cut along the similar lines and the left shooter starts on the left side and the right side takes the right and of course the guy in the middle hits the middle