Bottom pour or Ladel ??

[218bee]

Hey guys, new to this site but have been reloading for 40yrs and have been wanting to cast for about 30yrs so I figured I better start before it too late !!
I am sure many of the questions I have can be found elsewhere and I've been looking, but wanted to get some opinions on using a bottom pour furnace like the LEE Production pot, (I don't use LEE dies but heard this pots ok) , or I was thinking of getting one of those Waage pots which would be for dippin'.
So whats your feelings. What are the advantages of each? I am starting with handgun loads 44 Special, 45 Colt, 41 Mag and 38 Special and then will probably try 35 Rem, 444 Marlin, 45/70 and maybe 30/06.
Anyway I am not too interested in high production, and am guessing I'll be trying 2 cavity molds using wheelweights. I know the LEE is cheaper but the Waage is within my budget. Wouldn't want to pay over $200 for the Lyman or RCBS though.
So what say ye??

[NSP64]

Welcome.
What molds are you using/planning to use? I use a Lee bottom pour. How are you planning to size/lube your boolits? A person can sink a lot of cash into casting. Have you proccured any WW's yet? You will also need a way to smelt the WW's down and an ingot mold.

[standles]

Is that the air raid siren I hear.

[smilie=w:

The ever virulent battle of ladle or pour

I am outta here :)

[smilie=2:

[Cloudpeak]

I've never used Lee dies but, from everything I've read, it seems most think they're pretty good dies.

I ladle cast for years but bought a Lee 4-20 a couple of years ago. I much prefer the pot. The 4-20 is very reasonably priced, IMO. I like getting clean metal out of the bottom as opposed to possible impurities floating on the top. I also think a bottom pour is alot faster. You'll want to render your wheel weights in a different pot for sure. Use only fluxed, clean lead in your bottom pour.

Cloudpeak

[mtgrs737]

I have three lee pots and all of them work fine, however the RCBS Pro Melt is my go to pot of choice.

[dromia]

I have three lee pots and all of them work fine, however the RCBS Pro Melt is my go to pot of choice.

Ditto, same with me. I block up the LEE dripomatics and use them for dipping. I use the promelt for bottom pouring.

The LEE also only holds around 16-17lbs, but its cheap.

[VTDW]

When you get ready to purchase molds for those Marlins look at

www.ranchdogmolds.com

He is a member here and his molds are specifically for the Marlin lever action rifles.

Dave

[Bret4207]

Bottom pours are tools of the unclean.....

[montana_charlie]

I am still chasing the 'perfect load' for my 45/90. Therefore, every bullet I cast must be perfect in all respects...so it doesn't add to the confusion.

To date, I have been unable to cast perfect bullets using the bottom spout.
So, I still choose to be a dipper tipper...even though equipped to be a bottom feeder.
CM

[NVcurmudgeon]

My experience, and YMMV, casting being more of an art than a science:

Bottom pour=more boolits per hour, but you must be willing to accept drips and clogs.
Ladle casting=more good boolits per hour, but you must be willing to accept frequent fluxing and skimming.

As your become more familiar wth this place you will come to learn that this subject is equalled in controversy only by "case fillers, fer or agin."

[R.M.]

Get yourself a bottom pour, and you can still use a dipper if you so choose.

Just my thoughts.
R.M.

[wiljen]

Bottom pours are tools of the unclean.....

Suddenly I feel so dirty, but my bottom pours cast faster so at least I'm quick and dirty.

[Wayne Smith]

When you get to 400+gr boolits you will need to dip, a bottom pour, from what I've consistently read since the old Shooters.com is that the bottom pour is just too slow for the big boolits. Given that I never went to the electric pots but stayed with my Coleman double burner and Lyman ladle.

[mroliver77]

I use both and am not fanatical about either. I have an LBT .30 mold that just plain refuses to cast well with the bottom pour. I like ladle casting and just use it for this mold. I always recomend ladle casting to newcomers as one can get started much cheaper. Jay

[NSP64]

Suddenly I feel so dirty, but my bottom pours cast faster so at least I'm quick and dirty.

Hey wiljen what are those dirty boolits you have pictured? I too am dirty:drinks:

[NSP64]

When you get to 400+gr boolits you will need to dip, a bottom pour, from what I've consistently read since the old Shooters.com is that the bottom pour is just too slow for the big boolits. Given that I never went to the electric pots but stayed with my Coleman double burner and Lyman ladle.

I have cast .515-450 gr boolits with my BP and you just need to adjust the heat up alittle. be sure to keep the mold close to the spout so the stream doesn't cool.

[Dutch4122]

Bottom pour just didn't work out that well for me. Too many rejects due to wrinkled noses etc. early on in the casting session; and too much "fine crud" that made it down through the spout into the mold cavities. Weight variation was worse with the bottom pour pot also.

Hands down I have always gotten better quality boolits sooner with the ladle.
It seems that while the ladle is a bit slower the fact that I get fewer rejects makes the number of acceptable boolits in the pile about even in the end.

If you try a Rowell ladle from "The Antimony Man" I'm sure you'll be pleased with the results. My second favorite is the RCBS ladle.

Hope this helps,:mrgreen:

[imashooter2]

I've moved to a bottom pour for the higher production rate I need to support my USPSA, ICORE and Steel habits. I dipper cast for many years before I got the bottom pour and I still mold a better, more consistent boolit with a dipper.

[WKAYE]

To date, I have been unable to cast perfect bullets using the bottom spout.



Just curious, do you consider that YOUR failure or do you believe it's impossible to cast perfect bullets with a bottom pour ?

[montana_charlie]

Just curious, do you consider that YOUR failure or do you believe it's impossible to cast perfect bullets with a bottom pour ?
I honestly can't answer that. When I have a mould casting nicely (with a dipper), I will try the bottom spout for a while. Immediate results are always disappointing.

Believing that the alloy at the bottom of the pot is cooler than at the surface, I will raise the pot temperature a bit to compensate.
So far, results with that adjustment have shown no improvement for me.

I must admit that I have never spent a whole day trying to make the bottom spout work well. In addition, odd things occur down there.
One of those is...when holding the sprue plate tight against the spout...I get a horizontal squirt of alloy coming from between the plate and the mould top.

Doesn't happen every time, but often enough I have considered having my wife hold the mould...while I operate the spout handle with a long spoon.

Of course, I have tried other techniques such as 'fast & splashy' with a sprue puddle that covers a square foot of work bench...and 'slow & dribbley' which keeps the sprue on the plate, but lets the spout start to clog up.

Sure, continually raising the pot temp may cure that clogging, but I am usually starting to see signs of frost by the time it's running freely. I won't accept that.

Anyway, if I dipper cast a hundred apparent keepers (ones that look good during a quick inspection), I will probably reject a fair number (at the loading bench) because of tiny flaws...or the occasional 'dent' from one striking another on the towel.

With that degree of rejection in mind, fifty bottom pours...which yield no bullets that can pass the quick inspection...just can't hold my interest long enough to get any better at it.
CM

[pumpguy]

Bottom pours are tools of the unclean.....

[smilie=1:

[ozymandias]

I prefer to cast bullets with a ladle, but I find my bottom pour handy for pouring ingots.

[BustemAgain]

I used to bottom pour and had pretty good luck with it but in the last few years I have pretty much become a dipper. I have RCBS, Rowell and Lyman ladles and have had the best luck with them in that order. What I have found that has been the single best improvement to my casting and reloading in general is to keep a notebook on your moulds. My Notes on Moulds, Technique and Data has become my casting bible. In it are the specifics for getting the best bullets out of any mould in my collection. Which ladle works best with what technique and at what temp, as cast diameter and weight variation along with mention of common defects and their prevention. Sometimes a mould isn't used for years and rather than having to reinvent the wheel to have her working perfectly again I just have to look her up in the notebook and she will cast just like I just used her yesterday.

[Saint]

I use a bottom pour ladle. Is that considered unclean too?[smilie=1:

[IcerUSA]

I use both as my Gould and my 44 HP moulds like to be ladeled and the rest I BP , something about letting the lead run over back into the ladel pot that the HP's like , put just a little extra heat into the mould I suspect .

Keith

[jonk]

I started out with a ladle and still use it for pure lead- black powder bullets that is. I find that pure lead even with the heat all the way up doens't run as fast as the alloys do and combined with big bullets (my biggest is a 585 gr minie) the bottom pour just doesn't do well. I have a bottom pour for everyday casting though for handguns and rifles. Once the mold is heated up and the alloy at temperature and fluxed, I don't see any notable difference in bullet quality and it sure is faster.

[klw]

Decades ago, literally more years than I can now remember, I wondered about this so I took a series of moulds and filled them both ways. They I visually inspected both sets. The bottom pour furnace produce more total bullets and more visually acceptable bullets. I haven't used a ladel since.

I have used most of the bottom pour furnaces I think. I like the RCBS. I've got three.