First run of boolits

[wyrmzr]

113058oo

113059

I've tried my hand with the new mold tonight; .312 diameter is what I'm getting from the 312/185 Lee mold.
The only issues I'm seeing is the results do have some small imperfections. I've cleaned the mold thoroughly, stopping just short of boiling soapy water (hot, but not quite boiling). The mold takes a while to warm up, or if it isn't just the warm up process, then I have some residue to remove.
I doubt the flaws are going to cause problems, and I'm hoping the PC process helps a bit, but they still need to be sized to make sure they're round.

*edit*
The weight on these is around 190 grains so far; so not far off from the stamp. That's before the PC.

[RED333]

Might need to get the mold hotter, I use brake cleaner sometimes after the mold gets hot, helps me.
It always amazed me just how a little bit oil will mess up a cast.

[Wayne Smith]

Looks like you gotta slip a gc on there, too. Do you have a lube sizer? If not you can seat and size with the Lee sizer, just use some water for slip.

[wyrmzr]

I don't yet have the sizer, but that's next on my list. Not sure whether I wanted to size before of after I PC. Probably going to experiment some with that, as well as whether to put on the gas check before or after.

[williamwaco]

Size after you PC.

Boiling water ( with dish detergent ) is actually a good way to clean it.
Break cleaner is also very good.
409 is unsurpassed ( with a tooth brush )

Your mold temperature is correct when it takes at least three to four seconds for the sprue puddle to solidify.
This means that after you fill the mold, wait three seconds then tilt the mold to the side.
If the sprue puddle pours off like water, the mold is hot enough.
If it pours off after five seconds, it is too hot.

[bangerjim]

Put your mold on a hotplate and get it up to CASTING temp........not just warm!!!!!!

I do that & drop perfect boolits from #1. No wrinkles and no throw-backs. And I never have cleaned the grease/oil out of a mold with any type of cleaner.........still get perfect boolits. Wrinkles are caused by a cold mold/lead, not oil or grease in the cavities. I HAVE proved it........many many times.

I size after casting AND after PC. That catches any outliers and gives me consistency in size for accuracy. People on another thread are fighting about grease vs PC accuracy. If they would size twice, the accuracy thing goes away and PC is just as good as bare lead. And no leading!!!!!!!! So it IS better!

I put Cu GC's on after PC. They press on firmly and the sizing die really crimps them on. The extra "meat" of the PC gives a good hold. And I like to see shiny Cu checks on all my hi-velocity boolits.

If your boolits are dropping out-of-round, you got a serious mold problem (holding it wrong/mis-alignment, etc). PC will NOT solve that.

As a former Iowa boy, welcome to the madness!!!!!!!

bangerjim

[petroid]

The only issues I'm seeing is the results do have some small imperfections. I've cleaned the mold thoroughly, stopping just short of boiling soapy water (hot, but not quite boiling). The mold takes a while to warm up, or if it isn't just the warm up process, then I have some residue to remove.
I doubt the flaws are going to cause problems, and I'm hoping the PC process helps a bit, but they still need to be sized to make sure they're round.

*edit*
The weight on these is around 190 grains so far; so not far off from the stamp. That's before the PC.

What is your alloy? I get similar weight from that mold with COWW. slightly less weight but better mold fill out with a little tin added. it likes to be run hot. a little frosting is not a bad thing especially if you're PCing. I size before and after PC. Try adding a few drops of mineral spirits onto a pile of as cast boolits before sizing fi they're tight. Makes them slide a little easier through the die and gas check will still seat fine. If you're going to shoot over 1100-1200 fps you will need gas checks. Since I shoot this boolit out of a .313 bore Mosin I size it at .315 which doesn't give enough resistance to seat the check on the as cast boolit so I seat it after PC. Depending on what you're sizing to you may be able to seat it before PC which is nice because the PC will cover the check and help hold it even more securely.

[wyrmzr]

Some of these (actually at least the first couple dozen) won't get gas checks; they'll be fired subsonic, with just 15 grains of 4227 behind them.
This does burn cleanly at that low level of powder, and is an easy to shoot round with almost no recoil. I haven't run a chronograph on it, but I can tell by the sound that there's no breaking of the sound barrier. 21 grains of IMR 4227 with this boolit would yield about 1600 FPS if the books are accurate.
The alloy I'm using is a combination of COWW and range lead.
From what I'm seeing, I may want to add some tin for better flow. The temp is apparently right on that mold, as I'm seeing the sprue puddle take 3-5 seconds to solidify; I may even have to turn the pot down, as it's getting too hot as I progress, going up to 7-8 seconds after 20 or so castings. I had started out with the pot turned all the way up, and that's obviously too much. I'm bringing it down slowly as I get into a rhythm and see what my results look like.

[petroid]

Sounds like you've done your research and are working methodically through the necessary steps. You may want to water quench at higher velocities. At least wait five days or so after casting to allow the boolits to harden up a bit

[bangerjim]

You can always try the much-maligned (by some on here) technique of "pressure casting" to solve your fill-out problems.

Put the spigot of your pot right down into the sprue plate cone.
Open the valve
You will feel a slight tick in the handles when the lead fills the cavity.
Shut off valve (obviously!)
May have some run out. Beware of any squirts coming out!!!!!!!!

I have some molds, even at correct temp, that require this method. The head pressure of the lead in your pot forces the lead in every nook and cranny for perfectly filled-out boolits, hence pressure casting......more like injection molding.

Try it! You may not need if for every mold, but it is just another trick you can have in your bag to get good boolits. It is a slower process and forces you to slow down.....also your mold will probably not get too hot using this method.

bangerjim

[Dan Cash]

No wrinkles and no throw-backs. And I never have cleaned the grease/oil out of a mold with any type of cleaner.........still get perfect boolits. Wrinkles are caused by a cold mold/lead, not oil or grease in the cavities. I HAVE proved it........many many times.

bangerjim

Banger, you get a mould hot enough you will turn oil or grease to carbon but I am here to tellyou, I am from Missouri and you will have to show me that oil does not cause wrinkles. Most of us who have poured more than a half dozen bullets will disagree with you.

[Springfield]

I'm with bangerjim. I have cast good bullets with moulds that I didn't clean at all, especially my Mihec moulds. I preheat the moulds by dipping them in the molten lead. The oil will burn off. If you don't get good fill-out, loosen the sprue plate for better venting, especially with Mihec moulds as I find he sets them tight. If you have wrinkles or voids, usually the mould is not hot enough. On hot molds I have put too much bullplate and I know it got into the cavities but within 1 or 2 pours all is well again. Oil does not stay forever in a hot mould.

[bangerjim]

Banger, you get a mould hot enough you will turn oil or grease to carbon but I am here to tellyou, I am from Missouri and you will have to show me that oil does not cause wrinkles. Most of us who have poured more than a half dozen bullets will disagree with you.

I have poured 10 of thousands, so please do NOT paint me as a beginner.

I can't "show you" (you can try it for yourself and see), but I can tell you:

I have never scrubbed and cleaned and cleaned and scrubbed a mold like so many rave about on here as a must-do and cure-all to poor casting techniques revolving around temps.

Right out of the box, smoke with a beeswax candle, preheat to casting temp, and cast perfect little guys the 1st drop. End of story.

Now, here is the real teller.........I cast HMG (hot melt glue) boolits with my 38/40/45 molds and use PAM as a lube in the cavities applied with a q-tip....and on the sprue plate. I cool the mold with ice cubes. Drop perfect HMG boolits.

Here is the important part........I simply wipe off the PAM from the mold (no chemical/soap cleany-scurbby) and go right to casting PERFECT WRINKLE-FREE lead boolits every time. Preheating is the reason wrinkles do not happen. Grease/oil will NOT cause wrinkles. I have proved it MANY times with many molds and thousands of boolits. But you will just have to see it for yourself.

So much for the olde wive's tale of grease and wrinkles.....at lease in my book.

I am sure there are many clingers-on to the old notion their wrinkles are caused by oil and NOT by a cold mold/ cold lead. Scientifically is just cannot be so. Oil/grease will disperse rapidly, thin out and not cause wrinkles in a hot pre-heated mold.

I have even had beeswax in the cavities (OMG!!!!!!!) when I used it for pin and plate lube. It just floated to the top of the drop water and did not cause any wrinkles. Same with any oil in there. A film of 0.0001" of oil cannot cause wrinkles in molten lead.

That is my research (from years of testing) and I am stickin' to it. I know there are many others on here that will agree. They will just not see this thread. Too bad.

bangerjim

[RED333]

Well I have been wrong before and I will be wrong again as this time.
Oil will not cause a wrinkle.

[bangerjim]

Well I have been wrong before and I will be wrong again as this time.
Oil will not cause a wrinkle.

Please.......do not take my word for it. Just try a mold sometime with a little oil in there. Not tons of it, but just wipe it off with a paper towel and Q-tip.

Mabe all those out there that have steel molds and have trouble with rusting of the bare unprotected metal can now prevent rust with a little oil film protection? Only time and testing will tell. My 2 steel molds never rust. And they just lay on a shelf. All the many others are Aluminum.

Good casting!

bangerjim

[RED333]

Nope, I will take yalls word for it.

[1911cherry]

I have the same mold and its dropping .315 with wheel weights, which I like as its for a Mosin also.

[wyrmzr]

Not sure what all is going on yet; I've pre-heated this mold, and it still doesn't seem to be totally right. It seems to have a "cold spot" in it; I've run the gamut from cold (almost instantly solid at the sprue) to very hot (nearly 10 seconds to solidify), and until it gets really hot, the nose of my boolits still have small pockets, sometimes continuing down the length of them.
Once they're producing, I do get a dull tip to them. Maybe it's something with the mold, or maybe there's just some actual "break in" to do, but it is a bit irritating. At least I can recycle the bad ones, and make them again.

[Yodogsandman]

wyrmzr, From the one bad boolit I could make out in your first photo, it looks like you have a void the length of the nose on one side, not sure. Are you possibly over lubricating your sprue plate, just a little dab will do, just on the hinge screw. Wipe off any on the plate.

Did you flux your alloy real well? Try casting about 40-50 boolits as fast as you can without checking anything, then look to see how they're coming out. That should heat up your mold good.

Be sure to pour a good size puddle on top of the sprue plate each time to be sure that's heating up good, too.

You probably have enough tin but, it couldn't hurt to add just a little.

Once you find out what your mold likes, you'll be able to drop good ones all the time. Good luck, I know it can be frustrating.

[wyrmzr]

I'm not actually lubricating the mold at all. Initially, there is a void there, and it takes a very long time for that to go away, at which point the bullet frosts.
Still looking to see what can cure that, and may have to add some tin to get better flow.

[Handloader109]

Pam is a vegetable oil. I would NOT expect it to cause problems, but never used it. I have caused wrinkles with beeswax. Was trying to quickly lube the sprue plate screw and dribbled a drop into the cavity. Was casting perfect bullets, went to **** the next cast. Until I stopped after a dozen casts or so and cleaned with brake cleaner, the bullets were wrinkled. I was expecting that after a few casts it would come out or burn out, but no luck. WD40 and a couple of other sprays I have used won't cause wrinkles, but won't clean the mold either. I'd suggest you get a can of brake cleaner, heat up mold and spray off. All over mold. See if that helps. My 356-95 lee is the hardest mold I have to get good bullets. Have to get truly as hot as the lead. and never slow down casting as fast as I can. guess it is such a small bullet vs the mass of the aluminum.

[Yodogsandman]

Preheating the mold will help a lot.

Are you saving the sprue puddles and bad boolits for adding them back to the pot later or returning them right away? Returning them right away will cool your pot temperature. At the same time, doing this slows down your cadence.

That frost is the tin coming to the surface so, you prolly have plenty. As long as the edges are sharp and the boolit well filled out, that's OK, keep casting. If not, keep casting. Sounds like maybe slow flow from the spout from casting too slow. The tip might have leading inside from going too slow. It slows the flow. The mold gets a cooler initial splash of lead, followed by hot lead. By increasing your speed you'll overcome that and the mold will fill better as the lead flow increases.

[williamwaco]

Wrinkles are caused by a cold mold/lead, not oil or grease in the cavities. I HAVE proved it........many many times.

bangerjim

Jim, There is noting that pleases more than proving that something "EVERYBODY KNOWS" is wrong.

As soon as it cools off enough to turn on the pot I am going to try that.

First, would you explain a couple of observances for me.

1) Why does cleaning ( degreasing the mold) help a badly wrinkling mold cause the wrinkles to go away?

2) Why does the injection of any oil, usually from lubing the sprue plate cause my bullets to turn to raisins with no change in mold temperature?

[dondiego]

I'm not actually lubricating the mold at all. Initially, there is a void there, and it takes a very long time for that to go away, at which point the bullet frosts.
Still looking to see what can cure that, and may have to add some tin to get better flow.

You are not worried about frosted bullets are you?

[grouch]

My theory(based on 50yrs or so) is that your problem is common to new molds, a lot of the things mentioned will help but in any case most of your problems with faulty bullets will disappear by your third run of bullets. Also, a lot of us have better luck casting with a ladle.
You could have a look at Charley Dell's chapter on casting technique in "The Modern Scheutzen Rifle."
Grouch

[bangerjim]

Jim, There is noting that pleases more than proving that something "EVERYBODY KNOWS" is wrong.

As soon as it cools off enough to turn on the pot I am going to try that.

First, would you explain a couple of observances for me.

1) Why does cleaning ( degreasing the mold) help a badly wrinkling mold cause the wrinkles to go away?

2) Why does the injection of any oil, usually from lubing the sprue plate cause my bullets to turn to raisins with no change in mold temperature?

Well, I am not here to argue this point because I know I will loose to all the olde tymers out there. That was not the OP's intent. I know what I have found using lots of experimentation and trials and scientific knowledge and have presented my findings for y'alls consideration.

Believe me or not, it is up to your individual needs. Nice thing is, you can always try it for yourself and not just take my word for it.

It has always worked for me on smoked once pre-heated to casting temperature aluminum 2 & 6 banger molds.

I guess I will just keep my "myth-busters" field-tested research and comments to myself from now on if they go against the olde guarde establishment ideas of "by golly, it has always been done that way, dag nabbit".

Have fun casting............no matter how you do it. The end result is to have fun at the range, wrinkles on not.

bangerjim