Soft/thin Tula Large Pistol Primers?

[curator]

While I was loading some target loads for my .303 British Winchester P-14 I ran out of my standard Winchester Large Pistol primers and substituted Tula Large Pistol primers on the last 25 cartridges. I had bought 5K of these during the great primer shortage. My usual load is 17 grains of either WC680 or Alliant 2400 and a LBT .314/200 SP-GC boolit. Upon firing these yesterday I got pierced primers on 5 out of 10 primed with the Tula brand but no piercing whatever with the Winchester brand. Pressure is very mild judging from the roundness of the fired primers. Has anyone here experienced this?

[tomme boy]

I have used over 10K of them in 45acp. Not one problem. Maybe your firing pin protrusion is a little high for using them in a rifle case???

[Pb Burner]

Some friends and I also bought some Tula large and small pistol primers a while back. I've used over 1000 of them so far. I'm loading pistol and revolver rounds only with them, and no "hot" loads. So far I've had no issues with them, no problems at all. My friends have used lots of them also and they've never mentioned any problems either.

[curator]

I have used over 10K of them in 45acp. Not one problem. Maybe your firing pin protrusion is a little high for using them in a rifle case???

I thought of this too. Actually, the firing pin protrusion is on the short side, and the pin is nicely rounded, not sharp. Could this be a bad batch?

[gtgeorge]

I have used thousands of them in all sorts of different loads from light to hot in pistols. 400 CB were very hot and 19gr of 2400 in 41 mag. They have always seemed hard to me as they were the first to show a problem with my 1911 mainspring and are hard to seat in tight pockets.

[Green Frog]

By design, pistol primers are expected to be softer and have somewhat thinner cups than their rifle equivalents. Why are you using pistol primers in a bolt action rifle? The only reasons I have ever heard for doing this is for BPCS rifles that don't hit their firing pins quite so hard, or for a somewhat milder spark. I can't imagine your P-14 having a weak enough hit to require the pistol primer for consistent ignition, and with that rifle cartridge and smokeless, you can adjust powder charge to get a milder powered round... but maybe there's an additional factor you haven't mentioned(?)

Froggie

[runfiverun]

your firing pin spring is stronger than a pistols.


frog:
using pistol primers in rifles is common with many cast loads, the brisance is lower.
I have found with some of my larger cases [using slower pistol powders like 2400] that the difference between a pistol primer and a rifle primer is about one more grain of powder to equal the velocity of using a rifle primer.

[curator]

[QUOTE=Green Frog;2884659]By design, pistol primers are expected to be softer and have somewhat thinner cups than their rifle equivalents. Why are you using pistol primers in a bolt action rifle? The only reasons I have ever heard for doing this is for BPCS rifles that don't hit their firing pins quite so hard, or for a somewhat milder spark. I can't imagine your P-14 having a weak enough hit to require the pistol primer for consistent ignition, and with that rifle cartridge and smokeless, you can adjust powder charge to get a milder powered round... but maybe there's an additional factor you haven't mentioned(?)

I have used both large rifle primers and large pistol primers in reduced target loads for rifle cartridges with cast boolits. I am aware of the differences between rifle and pistol primers and the pressures each are designed to handle. Large pistol (I have mostly used Winchester) primers have given the most consistent velocities using both Alliant2400 and WC680 (milsurp) powders, compared to large rifle primers with these loads in .303 British, .30-40 Krag, and 8X57mm. Chamber pressures are in the 18-20K psi range with velocities in the 1500 fps area.. Accuracy using LP is nearly always slightly better than using LR even when loads are individually worked up .01 grains at a time. Until this batch of Tula, I have never experienced pierced primers at low pressures. Firing pin protrusion is not a factor here.

[jonp]

I have been using both lpp and spp Tula in 45acp/45 colt. I have not noticed anything different

[MostlyLeverGuns]

The 680 powder I have used has had very fine grains. Could grains of 680 be getting through the flashhole into the primer and causing the softer primer to pierce?
I have used TULA primers without problem, mostly Large Rifle , some Large Pistol.

[gtgeorge]

With all the info you have stated I would say it is likely a bad batch. Very strange under those pressures though. I have doubled those pressures.

[tomme boy]

It may be possible that these are just a hair thinner. With the higher force of the pin on the rifle compared to a pistol and a slightly thinner cup it would pierce. Or maybe the heat treat of the cup may be a little off. I would set them aside for use in a pistol.

What is the pin protrusion of the P14 compared to a 1911? Anyone know?

[mannyCA]

No problems here after thousands shot. If anything they seem to be a bit on the thick side, which I prefer, especially with looser primer pockets.

[Oleman]

I have used several thousand of the Tula large primers in my 45's with no problems.

[retread]

I finished out my first 5000 Tula without as much as one problem. Then I bought some Wolf primers (whcich I thought were manufactured at the same plant) and have had a 2% failure to fire on the first 200 loaded. Everything else, gun-powder-load being equal.

[bruce381]

I know the diameter of the tula is a little more than Winchester thus they seat hard but most likley is harder or softer brass alloy. Used in the primer cup

[Oleman]

I have never had a Tula or Wofle primer pierced?