View Full Version : Homemade percussion cap tests
Tried out some of my homemade percussion caps on a 1851 navy revolver. All ten test caps fired fine with Goex 3fg and pyrodex-p. They don't shatter and jam as bad as the Remington caps. Roll caps alone wouldn't work but about a 1/4 grain of Goex 4fg added to the cap did the trick. I made my own simple cup making die that mounts in a Lee press so mass production of cups is easy.
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quite a successful experiment!
XinTX
08-01-2014, 09:21 PM
Awesome. I need to try my hand at making caps.
Awesome. I need to try my hand at making caps.
let me know if you'd like the drawing of my die. It's pretty easy to make as I patterned it after my gas check dies.
I just modified a cheap Walmart paper punch to punch out my caps to a 0.170 diameter so they seat nicely and don't come loose. Now I'll try some with 1/4gr powder covered by a single rollcap to reduce the amount of paper spit into the nipple.
n.h.schmidt
08-02-2014, 01:32 PM
Excellent
We need more to carry this on. To further reduce the paper being fired try this. Lay the paper cap strip down with the thick paper side up. Hold down and sand the paper until you can begin to see the cap charge through the thined paper. You will know you are about right when some of the dots fire off in the sanding. I would like to see a pic of your die. I'll show you mine if you show me yours. I make them too on a reloading press.
n.h.schmidt
Just got back from the range to test my single roll cap caps. They all fired 24 gr 3Fg Goex in 1858 new army revolver just fine. With a 20 out of 20 success rate I think a single cap is the way to go. I use a double layer of soda can metal for the cup, about 1/4gr 4Fg Goex topped with a single rollcap with the brown side out. I modified a cheap paper punch so it punches the rollcaps at 0.173" diameter (#17 drill size). They seal the Goex in the cup quite well.
I checked the nipple hole after each test shot and saw no obstruction so the excess paper problem seems solved.
I'll put together a drawing of my die and post it.
Here's the drawings of my capmaker. To cut the teeth on the punch I marked a piece of masking tape to show the position and depth of the teeth, then used a triangular file. Polishing the inside of the punch cone is critical to get the aluminum to form nicely. I also use a light spray of furniture wax on the side that slides into the cone. A double layer of soda can works best in my caps.
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n.h.schmidt
08-03-2014, 08:17 AM
Very nice. I will try to get a pic of my die for making percussion caps. Johnson's past wax makes a easy to use and cheap wax lube for the can. Just wipe it on and punch away. I too have found that a double layer is better. I have gone to a cap dot on the bottom ,bp then a cap dot on top. Once I have some made I give them a thin spraying of hairspray. Like yours production is good and mostly limited by mistakes and how long it takes to process the cans.
In observing the bottom of the nipple when firing(I have a percussion cap tester that allows direct viewing) the bp does not increase the blast. I does create a spray of orange sparks and that it what makes it work.
Carry on your inspired work.With caps now costing so much ,we need to do better.
I'll bet you have found out that. You really need to bring your A game when it come to cleanig . These caps will bring on the rust if you are not ready for it.
n.h.schmidt
You're exactly correct in that its the shower of sparks that lights the powder. An interesting cap only little test I did was to stick an 1/8" felt wad in the end of the barrel to see how much 'push' the caps had. The wad was blown out so I felt confident I was getting the sparks spit into the cylinder to light the powder. In fact the military still adds blackpowder to their artillery primers to get a nice spark shower to light off big charges of smokeless powder.
By using only a single rollcap over the 4Fg I seem to get fewer stray bits of paper in the nipple. It could be placing a rollcap on the bottom of the cup doesn't get blasted as well from the 4Fg so tiny bits of paper are left to bounce around.
I've been using the Ballistol/water 1:10 mix and it works pretty well for cleaning and I don't see rust. Although living at 7500' and RH usually less than 10% is probably the best rust preventer here.
Another helpful project is to modify a cheap paper punch to cut the rollcap dots. The 5/32" punch is almost impossible to find so I got a cheap WM hand paper punch (Darice? brand) set of 3 for about $7. I took the 1/16" punch and used a jeweler's saw to cut off the 1/16" punch pin. After pulling off the catcher, I then clamped the jaws together and drilled through the die hole into punch mandrel to a depth of about 0.1". I made a new punch pin on my lathe and soldered it into the mandrel with a tin/silver solder.
My new rollcap punch gives me a 0.17" rollcap dot and is vastly easier than the handpunch/hammer technique. The larger dot diameter seals the 4Fg into the cap so I haven't had to resort to a hairspray overcoat.
swathdiver
08-03-2014, 03:37 PM
If one of you fellas makes these up for sale, I'd probably buy one.
I asked if MannyCA was interested in making my press mounted version but he said he was designing his own. Feel free to take my drawings to a friend who has a small lathe and make one. No fancy steel or hardening is needed to make one for home use. Good Luck
n.h.schmidt
08-04-2014, 06:07 PM
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Here are a couple of pictures of my copy of a Forrester auto cap. As you can see it mounts inside the working area of the reloading press. The die body is a hardware store bolt that threads into the top of a Lee powder through expander die. That die is screwed in the press upside down to present the die correctly. The punch fits into the ram in the same place as a shell holder. Completed cups fall through the punch and out through the primer path in the ram. I chose this setup to be the easiest way I could think of to make this happen. The bolt can be found at any hardware store.
The Lee die holder is about $9 at some places and isn't damaged at all and can be used as a expander die again.It works very well and production can be as high as 800 per hour.That is if you don't make any mistakes and jam it up. In the picture with the lee press a folded over strip is about done. I can get 48 punchings from a pop can doubled over. No parts are hardened but good steel is best. The hose clamp is on the ram to limit the downward stroke so the punch isn't coming out of the die.That will ruin the teeth quickly.
n.h.schmidt
N.H.
looks like a nice design. I assume your forming pin is attached into your bolt somehow. My setup is inverted from yours and I catch the formed caps in an old pill bottle that I place atop the press that catches a few threads of the punch. I put a good chamfer where the punch enters the die so any slight misalignment is corrected.
n.h.schmidt
08-05-2014, 04:43 PM
Why not a hose clamp on the ram. I have other dies that work like yours and use a clamp on the ram for the same purpose. There is no reason to be lowering the ram far enough for the punch to come out of the die body.It only needs to be low enough to clear the slot. Them teeth are delicate and need protection. The clamp is easily adjusted to allow the die to be removed for clearing any jams. I do like your finnish and overall great look. Too bad we live so far apart. What lathe do you use?
n.h.schmidt
Swede44mag
08-05-2014, 05:08 PM
What is the teeth for on the cap maker?
n.h.schmidt
08-05-2014, 09:01 PM
The cups need to be fairly deep and that dosn't work so well with what we have to work with. The teeth start folds in the cup material so a deep cup can be made. The folds also allow the cup to fit on a very large range in nipple size. Life would be easier if the folds didn't need to be there.
n.h.schmidt
My lathe is a Chinese from Enco, but its the same as the Grizzly and Harbor Freight. I discovered the trick to get the cheap lathes to work is to tighten all the ways and add a lock screw on the compound rest. Once everything is tightened up you can get a reasonable finish even on mild steel
mannyCA
08-08-2014, 09:09 PM
Great looking set up Idz! I've been experimenting with using turkey aluminum pans from walmart to makr a thicker cap, especially for themusket cap maker and they seem to hold up better than soda cans.
Sensitivity test results.
My homemade caps used cups formed on my die with a double layer of aluminum soda can. Cap H1 had a "Legends" rollcap face up, about 1/4gr Goex 4Fg, topped by a rollcap face down. Cap H2 was similar but only used the top facedown rollcap.
A 2 ounce steel cylinder (3/4"dia x about 1" long) was dropped on several caps, a 3/4" pvc pipe was crossdrilled at 1" intervals to guide the drop cylinder to the percussion cap and allow a trigger wire to be placed under the cylinder so start conditions are consistent.
Some results from 5 percussion caps of each type:
Rem #11 cap firing height averaged about 22"
homemade cap H1 average firing height 14-15" Nipple choked with paper from rollcaps
homemade cap H2 average firing height 16-17" Nipple paper debris almost non-existent
OuchHot!
08-11-2014, 03:58 PM
Along with the 1/4gr of black, it might help to add a tidge of Al dust. This might get the temp and duration of the spark up a bit. Just a thought. I really appreciate the development that you have gone through.
n.h.schmidt
08-11-2014, 07:27 PM
I haven't tried any al mixed with the BP yet. I have tried some magnesium dust in the mix. I got white sparks in the tester. Should have been great in use but was not as reliable as two cap dots and BP.
n.h.schmidt
I did some 'spray' tests by placing a piece of white paper 1/2" below the nipple nozzle and dropping a 2 ounce weight from 30" to set off the cap.
Remington #11 caps showed a spray between 3/8 and 1/2" diameter
In my homemade 2 layer soda can cups I put:
3 crushed match heads in a cap sprayed about 3/8" but weaker than the Rem #11, 2/4 caps failed to fire
1 rollcap+1/4 gr 4Fg+1 rollcap sprayed 1/4-5/16" but appeared to have unburned bits in it, 1/4 failed to fire
1/4 gr 4Fg + 1 rollcap sprayed 3/16-1/2" with fewer unburned bits than the 2 rollcap cap, 0/5 failed
then a little range testing
a Traditions 50 cal Kentucky pistol: 2/3 Rem#11 fired charge, 3/4 homemade with 1 rollcap+4Fg fired
a Pietta 1858 revolver: 24/26 homemade 1 rollcap + 4Fg fired
n.h.schmidt
08-15-2014, 11:11 AM
I have recently begun testing the two pop can cups with specially prepaired role caps. The caps are the german ones( thats all I can find anyway). I turn them over so the thick paper is up and sand them down. I stop sanding when I get some of them going off from the sanding. There is now very little paper top or bottom. I punch out most of them with a 1/8" punch and a few with a .170 dia modified punch. I put five of the 1/8" dots in first and one .170 dia dot on top to hold them all in. Six in all and still have only filled half the cup. You do that with unsanded caps and they will overfill the cups. They fire fine in the tester with a fair amt of blast showing. In use they have worked well in my sidelock rifles with BP. A little less well with pyrodex. With pyrodex, two cap dots and BP in the cup works better.
n.h.schmidt
Apparently the key to lighting propellant powder is the hot sparks. BP has lots of hot sparks since only about 50% of it burns and the rest is spit out as sparks. With just a single rollcap and a 1/4 gr of 4Fg I'm impressed at how well it works.
Just one rollcap seems to do better at keeping the nipples clear. I can blast away until the revolver cylinder starts binding from BP gunk and the nipples are still clear.
I'll have to try the hairspray 'glue' trick because I think the few cap failures I've had have been due to the BP shaking out of the cap. The failures would go poof and a wisp of smoke would appear but not light the charge. Does anybody wet pack the BP by using a drop of water, alcohol, or glue?
Before I start sanding caps I think I'll try some of the other primer compounds folks have listed and then do careful series of sensitivity tests.
I'm also thinking about making a measure to meter out tiny amounts of BP. I envision a slide bar with a small drill hole that takes a precise charge and then drops it down a small tube into the cup.
n.h.schmidt
08-16-2014, 08:18 AM
The primer mixes are not for me.Be very carefull with that. For the bp a small scoop made from a fired pistol primer works well. I had to file it down some to get it right. I like your sensitivity testing and the spray testing on paper. It's tough to get any quantive data with what we are doing. For what you are doing in shooting the revolvers ,you can get by with less power and blast. Your powder charge is always under the nipple. Only two rifle types have that. The underhammer and mule ear rifles come to mind. Most side locks have one or two right angles for the blast to get through to the powder. I don't wet the powder .I use it dry .
n.h.schmidt
brad925
08-22-2014, 03:21 PM
Lasr year I went to shoot my traditions cap lock hawken and discovered I had no caps. Wondering what to do I grabbed a package of those red plastic ones in a ring for cap pistols. Shot perfectly setting off 100gr loads of pyrodex RS without a hitch.
n.h.schmidt
08-22-2014, 05:01 PM
Hi brad
I hope you cleaned well. They are very corrosive. I have used them too. I could get them to work sometimes. Usually for two to three shots. After that the flash channel is usually too cloged for the weak blast of the plastic cap to be able to work.
n.h.schmidt
Newtire
08-24-2015, 07:54 AM
Great looking set up Idz! I've been experimenting with using turkey aluminum pans from walmart to makr a thicker cap, especially for themusket cap maker and they seem to hold up better than soda cans.Hi Manny,
I probably am doing something wrong but can 't get the link to work!
Not sure what newtire is looking for, but here's my write=up on percussion caps.
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?274339-Guide-to-making-percussion-caps
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