Blood Lead Levels

[klw]

I cast bullets all the time. Over the last eight years I've averaged right at 700 bullets a week.

I have my blood lead levels checked periodically. When they reached 20 I stopped casting six hours a week and dropped back to only two. Of course it was two hours with multiple gang moulds but it still was a significant cut-back in my lead exposure. My lead blood level dropped to 17.

A blood lead level of 40 requires medical attention. A blood lead level between 20 and 40 is cause for some concern. In this range you are clearly have an exposure to lead.

The most recent set of tests started out with a blood lead level of 25. I stopped all bullet casting and, I thought, all lead exposure. Six weeks later my lead level was 28. Now how in the world do you get lead exposure when you aren't around lead.

Not around lead? Yes! I boxed it all up in sealed containers, all 4000 pounds of it and washed off all the surfaces. But there was one other possibility.

I've got an old Mauser 1891. I've been shooting wheelweight bullets in it this year. Use enough powder to seal the case and the accuracy is horrible. Use a light enough powder charge to get excellent accuracy and the case clearly doesn't seal in the chamber. You clearly get blowback right into your face. Not enough to cause concern about the safety of the gun but...

I started wondering if this gas could cause my rising lead levels. This was, after all, my only remaining exposure. So I stopped shooting that gun. Six weeks after I stopped my lead level had dropped from 28 to 17.

Never would have thought that you could elevate you blood lead levels by shooting but in this rather weird case you can.

My friend Art Green, who sells bullet alloys, has never had an elevated blood lead level even though he processes alloys a couple tons at a time. I now believe that my rising lead levels this year were not from all my casting sessions but rather from my shooting.

I have never before shot a rifle that wouldn't seal up properly but it was the only way to make this old Mauser work. I put a lot of effort into being sure I wasn't doing anything here that was really nuts from a firearms safety point of view but I was very slow to realize that this is an excellent way to get lead posioning.

[felix]

Kenneth, try zinc pills, those you suck on. One every couple of days. Do not swallow whole because they are too toxic to the stomach (for most folks). Docs say zinc helps the body eliminate heavy metals very quickly. Besides that, zinc will help shrink the prostate. ... felix

[klw]

My understand is that if your lead levels are below 40 that the body will eliminate the lead without you doing anything other than avoiding lead exposure. Both solid and liquid bodily waste carry the lead away. Certainly worked for me. I should but just can not resist this last comment. Only time being a big sh*t turned out to be a good thing!

Shrinks the prostate?! Really. Would be nice to get off Floxmax. Maybe I'll look into this.

[400cor-bon]

inorganic lead doesnt get into your system that readily
you can close up split shot sinkers with your teeth all day, even swallow one
and you lead wont go up
primers have lead styphnate in them (organic lead) which is very readily absorbed
hot lead fumes and powder can also be absorbed,
but most of your lead must be coming from the primer fumes
shoot downwind only and reload to make the case expand and seal the breach!

[felix]

Zinc helps, especially when used with SawPalmetto (Walmart). Make sure these two dealies do not create a bomb with Floxmax. Check around on the net for any mutual interference. Docs might or might not know because they want to sell the Floxmax (kickbacks). If ok, then take 4 to 6 "eighty milligram" sawpalmetto pills per day. ... felix

[1Shirt]

Would be very interested in hearing what some of the M.D.s on CastBoolits think about lead levels in the body. I was told that once ingested, it remained in the body and affected the brain, hence the big deal about kids eating lead based paint. Like the idea of zinc as some kind of purge, but like I said, would really like to hear from an M.D. or two. Think Ricochet is a Doc?????
1Shirt!:coffee:

[400cor-bon]

I am an environmental engineer and know a fair bit about chemical exposure
I work in the semi-conductor manufacturing industry
The problem with lead in children is that it inhibits the development of the brain
not allowing parts of the brain to properly develop and work.
Most of this development is done by 21, that is why they let you drink after 21
However, adult lead exposure does cause some neurological problems
as well as being toxic to the liver and kidneys trying to excrete it, which they will do at a slow rate.
Here is a list of what lead can damage:

Neurological Effects: Peripheral neuropathy, Fatigue / Irritability, Impaired concentration, Hearing loss, Wrist / Foot drop, Seizures, Encephalopathy

Gastrointestinal Effects: Nausea, Dyspepsia, Constipation, Colic, Lead line on gingival tissue

Reproductive Effects: Miscarriages/Stillbirths, Reduced sperm, Abnormal sperm

Heme Synthesis: Anemia, Erythrocyte protoporphyrin elevation

Renal Effects: Chronic nephropathy with proximal tubular damage

[johnho]

the gases put out from the detonating primer contain lead.

[horratio]

I can't help but respond to this post re: a couple points of clarification.
First off I'm not an MD but I have some degree of experience as a nurse practitioner.

Before people start eating their zinc wheel weights for breakfast to treat there presumed lead exposure just know there is not much evidence that indicates zinc is useful other than a potential adjuvant in some established chelation therapy. This is best left for hematologists, Emerg and ICU docs to figure out. Zinc can be toxic too.

Absorbed Lead is primarily renally excreted, unless you swallow you ingots, bullets whole then certainly a little fiber would not hurt to poop it out.

Lastly if your prostate is big enough, you probably can't eat enough zinc or saw plametteo to make a huge difference. Milder BPH may respond. Flomax is pretty good medication, there may be others that are better or you just may heading down the road for a TURP assuming you don't have an aggressive prostate cancer.

I have never received nor do I know anyone who prescibes received a kickback for prescibing drugs. Not to say the occasional drug rep has not tried to ply me with an "educational" meal. I routinely decline these offers.

The following is a good article on lead toxicityhttp://www.emedicine.com/EMERG/topic293.htm

[Naphtali]

Kenneth, try zinc pills, those you suck on. One every couple of days. Do not swallow whole because they are too toxic to the stomach (for most folks). Docs say zinc helps the body eliminate heavy metals very quickly. Besides that, zinc will help shrink the prostate. ... felixPlease provide a source for this information. I want to find out: how much to take; is prophylactic dosage worthwhile; what are contraindications; et al.

[nicholst55]

I'm going to send a link to this thread to #2 son, the doctor, and see what he thinks about it. It may be a while before I get a response - he's still an intern and they work them poor kids to death!

[longbow]

I am a maintenance engineer in a very large lead refinery and while I am not normally around the lead pots continuously I must certainly be exposed to more lead than the average person, both due to my work environment and the fact that I also cast boolits.

My blood lead level is 5.

High blood lead levels indicate inhalation or ingestion. Either cast in a well ventilated area or use a respirator - I cast outside - and wash your hands after casting or handling lead. This is especially important if you are a smoker. You can pick up some heavy metals from tobacco but a common problem is that if you have lead on your fingers while smoking it will get onto your cigarette and so into your lungs. Smoking is banned all over the property where I work because of this. Snacking while casting is also bad for the same reason - lead on the fingers gets onto the food and into your stomach.

Also, some people seem to be more susceptible to lead absorption than others. If you are avoiding lead, are careful when you cast and don't smoke you may be more susceptible than average.

The nurses at work have seen workers with lead levels over 100. The normal procedure is that if the blood lead level reaches 40 the worker is moved to a non-lead exposure area until the levels drop. Many workers have blood lead levels in the 20's and 30's without ill effect and it will drop if exposure is reduced/eliminated.

I hadn't thought about it before as it hasn't been an issue for me but I will ask the nurses if there are any recommended vitamins/supplements for reducing blood lead levels.

[catboat]

I have been thinking about the issue of blood/body/lead adsorption/absorption. My concern stemmed from seeing my fingertips get discolored when handling lead bullets. The skin is the largest organ in the body. In a preventative measure, I now use vinyl gloves when I lube/size or load or handle lead bullets.

I don't know if it makes a difference. I've never had my blood tested for lead. I just figured it's pretty cheap insurance to not have lead pass through my fingertip skin and into my body.

I feel better psychologically, when I am done sizing/loading and n I see the lead discoloration on the tips of the gloves. When I take off the gloves, my fingertips are clean.

I'll let you know in 40 years if I go crazy or not and loose my mind and memory. I just don't want to repeat myself, as a sure sign I have neurological issues.

I'll let you know in 40 years if I go crazy or not and loose my mind and memory. I just don't want to repeat myself, as a sure sign I have neurological issues.

I'll let you know in 40 years if I go crazy or not and loose my mind and memory. I just don't want to repeat myself, as a sure sign I have neurological issues.

I'll let you know in 40 years if I go crazy or not and loose my mind and memory. I just don't want to repeat myself, as a sure sign I have neurological issues.

I'll let you know in 40 years if I go crazy or not and loose my mind and memory. I just don't want to repeat myself, as a sure sign I have neurological issues.

I'll let you know in 40 years if I go crazy or not and loose my mind and memory. I just don't want to repeat myself, as a sure sign I have neurological issues.

What was the question?

:-)



PS: I honestly DO use vinyl gloves when handling lead bullets now. That is no joke.

[Lloyd Smale]

I was treated twice for high levels with a chelting (spelling) pill and it seemed to bring mine down. Mine was as high as in the 70s. I have to admit to being a sloppy caster and a smoker and im sure it didnt help matters. Ive got two buddys who dont cast and got high levels that required medical interventioin just from indoor shooting. they both shoot competition and up here its indoors all winter and a good many of the ranges are poorly ventalated. One of the easisest ways for a caster to pick up lead in there system is smelting wws. You typicaly run temps higher then when you cast and with all the crap in the pot lots of smoke is given off that will carry lead fumes. I now do it outside.

[nicholst55]

I spoke to the doctor today about this, and he feels that the information provided at the emedecine link, above, is sound. He did emphasize that this is not his area of specialty, however. The two things that I came away from reading that article with are: 1) when your lead level becomes elevated, reduce/minimize lead exposure, and, 2) alternative medicine treatments are probably not harmful to chelation treatment.

I think it all boils down to what we accept as common sense when handling or casting lead; have adequate ventilation, don't eat, drink, smoke or chew, and wash your hands when you're done. I take it one step further by wearing nitrile gloves and disposing of them immediately upon completion.

Regarding inhalation of lead at indoor ranges, this is why they are beginning to ban exposed lead on bullets and installing very expensive HEPA filtration systems. It's not so much for the benefit of the shooters as it is for the benefit of the employees.

[Mack Heath]

Gents,

If you have a beard or mustache, make certain that you wash around your mouth before you drink anything aftrer shooting, especially handguns and especially indoors. The hair on your upper lip acts as a great filter of the air your nose is drawing over it. You can wash your hands all you want, but the first time you take a drink of something after shooting, you will wash the lead residues from your mustache right down into your gullet. A good check to see how bad the situation might be at the range you use is to blow your nose after shooting. If it comes up black, you REALLY need to wash around your mouth.

At one of the local clubs that participates in an area .22 league, 5 of their shooter came downwith high lead levels. Four of them were men and all four had beards an/or mustaches.

[lathesmith]

Here's a recent article on this subject that might be of interest to some:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080127/ap_on_he_me/aging_brain

Oh great, anyone older than 30 has had "high" lead exposure in the past. I think that is going to include an awful lot of us that hang out here...
lathesmith

[longbow]

I asked the nurses at work about some of the issues brought up in this thread.

I pass on their comments:

- lead is taken into the body by ingestion or inhalation
- lead is not absorbed through the skin (in the form booilt casters deal with it anyway)
- chelation therapy does not work for long term lowering of blood lead, it gives a short term drop which will generally rise again as the lead continues to leach out of your bones and/or fatty tissue
- the new acceptable max. blood lead level in my workplace is 35 micrograms per decileter ~ down from 40 ~ then the worker has to be removed to a non-lead exposure area
- vitamins and supplements do not hurt but they are not proven to help lower blood lead levels
- less lead is absorbed if ingested when the stomach is full so eat or drink BEFORE casting, not during
- don't snack, drink, suck on candies, smoke, lick your fingers etc. while handling lead or casting ~ smoking and snacking are prime methods of inhaling and ingesting lead if you haven't washed your hands
- try not to touch your face while casting, like scratching, rubbing your nose, stroking beards or mustaches etc. and wash your face after casting as what's on your face may find its way into your mouth ~ the nurse said most people don't realize how much they touch their faces
- if you do get high blood lead levels then minimize exposure by being extra careful or don't be around lead, you will gradually excrete the lead and levels will drop
- and of course cast where there is good ventilation

And again, I work in a large lead smelter and am surrounded by hundreds of tons of lead every day, and I cast boolits - my blood lead level is still 5.

Longbow

[crazy mark]

About 5 years ago I had a gran-mal seizure for no reason. One of the first things they did was a CT scan, MRI scan and blood levels for heavy metals. My lead level was less than 5. They did several more blood tests to make sure they were getting good readings. I was asked by several Neuro's if I was shooting at an indoor range. I told them no and why did they think I did. No answer. I finally said with my lead levels what was the concern and was told the primers contain lead styphanate(sp). I told them I did cast bullets and they decided it wasn't a lead problem. Seems I developed a sensitivity to strobes. Even flourescent lights that are flickering can cause me problems. I get checked every year and my lead levels have stayed below 5. You might want to have your drinking water checked as older houses used 50/50 solder and some brasses will leach lead into the water. Mark

[Saint]

- don't snack, drink, suck on candies, smoke, lick your fingers etc. while handling lead or casting.
- but that black shiny film is so finger lickin good