WW & Linotype...what ratio??

[Uncle Grinch]

I am fairly new to casting my own and would like to standardize my alloy. All I have is 40 lbs of linotype and several hundred pounds of wheelweights. In the past I have filled my pot about 3/4 full of ww alloy and topped it off with linotype. No real formula, but it worked OK for my pistols .38, 41 and 45 acp.

I now have a 416 Taylor and a 6.5 Swede that I am trying to cast for. Both molds are GC. I want to use my lino efficiently and want to know what the correct ratio of ww to linotype (by pounds) would be best for these rifles. One of my buddies said to use one pound of linotype for every six pounds of ww.

I want to mix up quite a bit and have a ready made stash to cast from. Any suggestions?

Thanks... "Dirty Mike"

[FISH4BUGS]

I have always used a Lyman #2 Alloy. Allegedly this is 5 lbs ww to 1 lb linotype. I don't really remember where I got that formula, but I have been using it for YEARS. I have NO leading the barrel, but I don't drive them hard. I DO have some problems with lead on the face of the cylinder but that is another issue.
As an experiment, I just cast a BUNCH of 9mm through a Hensley & Gibbs 10 cavity mould (man, if you don't own one, GET ONE! - 3 hours casted over 1000 bullets) that was 5lbs ww to 2 lbs linotype. These are clearly shinier bullets when cast, and generally seem to be harder.
For what it's worth.

[Uncle Grinch]

Fish4bugs...

Your ratio is pretty close to what I had used before. It's probably a little harder as your's is 5:1 and mine is 6:1.

I was playing around today breaking in my mold and cast a dozen or so 350 gn .416 boolits from both ww and linotype and man do those lino boolits look good!! I kept one as an example and pitched the rest back into to pot.

I appreciate your input..

[waksupi]

ww's by thierselves will do 99% of what you need. I have oven quenched the bullets at various temperatures, and get a very good range of hardness. A little shot added if I need them real hard. I only use lino when casting specific molds that don't fill out well. The .223 boolits come to mind.

[David R]

Lyman Sez #2 alloy is 90% lead, 5% tin, 5% antimony with a BHN of 15.

Wheel weights have .5% tin and 4% antimony.

Lintoype is 4% tin, 12% antimony.

I am going to let you do the math, I am waaay to tired tonight.

I use 9 lbs wheel weights, 1 lb 50/50 solder which gives me 5% tin, and just under 4% antimony. They respond to quenching out of the mold quite well and shoot anything I need, Except my 22 cal boolits that I cast out of pure linotype.

Quenched wheelweights should get you to 20? BHN.
Heat treated they tell me can go as high as 30 BHN.....Never tried it my self.

Hope this helps.

[9.3X62AL]

Tomorrow I'm picking up 500# of pre-smelted WW metal in 3# ingots and 100# of foundry type (62% L, 15% T, 23% A). That 500# of ingots along with the 120# of smelted WW ingots and about 200# of wild WW's should yield about 800# total WW metal, and when blended with the foundry type about 8/1 should yield a little better than Taracorp (92/6/2). 4/1 will do a slight bit better than Lino.

120# of stacked LYMAN and SAECO ingots does not take up much space at all.

[NVcurmudgeon]

blslryr, As waksupi said, wheelweights will do 99% of what most of us need. Adding 2% tin (or lead-free solder) for castability, to your weights should make a fine alloy for up to 1800-2000 fps. if bullet fit and lube are right. I would save the lino for when you get a wild hair to experiment with high velocity. I don't load 6.5 X 55, but a lot of those who do say don't go over 1650 fps. There was an old man at the range the other day who had hunted in Zimbabwe and South Africa. He had a brand new Ruger 77 in .416 Rigby. He went home after five rounds. Now there's a guy who would probably love light cast bullet loads!

[Leftoverdj]

Lyman has given several formulas for #2 over the years and the percentages do not equate. I suspect they have done what the rest of us do; mix up a batch of moderately hard alloy from what is readily available and call it good enough.

For many years, I have used something close to 5:1 WW/Lino when I could get lino, and WW+2% tin when I could not. Possibly I could get by with straight WW, but one long ago batch that would not work until I remelted and added lino cured me of that. Simpler just to put it in the first time and not worry about it.

Only claim I make for the way I do things is that it has always worked and has done so over a wide range. No surprises is worth the slight expense to me.

[9.3X62AL]

A great deal of good sense in DJ's post.

Dan at Mountain Molds discusses "SBS" (Shrunken Bullet Syndrome") on his Mountain Molds website in some detail, and I won't plagiarize his work here--other than to say that larger boolits can produce SBS effects using straight WW metal at times. Tin seems to be the "secret ingredient" to prevent that occurrence, and enhances castability overall.

Problem is--tin isn't cheap--at all. $8/lb is about mid-range from metals dealers currently. This is my rationale behind using foundry type to both sweeten and harden casting alloys. I am far more interested in the tin than in the antimony, but for most of my shooting the hardness factor is a non-issue.

Linotype can sure make some purty castings, though. :-)

[BruceB]

My very earliest cast-bullet experience involved just two alloys....cable sheathing and linotype. The cable lead, which was practically pure lead, came from a friend who was a lineman with the local phone outfit, and the linotype was donated in huge amounts by another friend (and fellow caster) who owned and operated a printing outfit which had recently changed from linotype printing to more-modern methods....he had about twenty TONS of lino!

I found out a few things about lino from this availability. One is that it's too brittle for my taste for service/hunting purposes. I had a few bullets break up when I really didn't appreciate it. Cutting the lino with about 1/3 cable lead solved that problem. I also found that straight-linotype didn't work all that well in our S&W target .38 Special autoloaders, either, giving severe leading in their throats. 50/50 lead-lino was much better, and straight wheelweight alloy does equally well today, in both autos and revolvers. For autos other than the S&W .38s, I use water-dropped WW for (I think) better feeding and maybe better "grip" on the lands in those shallow-groove .45 barrels.

In MY experience, and we must take into account the fact that I usually cast at higher temperatures than generally recommended, straight WW metal does fine. I did run an earnest trial with 2% tin added, but found it had no benefit for MY methods. Therefore, I don't bother with it any more. My large-bullet casting has involved weights up to around the 570-grain mark, including .41, .458 and .512 diameters, and I've not been troubled with the reduced-diameter SBS syndrome....and I DO watch out for it. I expect that my elevated casting temps must help with this, because the phenomenon is rather wide-spread, it seems.

In my own .416 experience with the Rigby version, since Dirty Mike mentioned the caliber, straight WW metal has worked perfectly right up to 2700 fps in water-dropped 365-grain RCBS boolits, without leading or other nasty effects (except RECOIL....ooof!). Unhardened WW works fine at 2100 fps or more in this .416 Rigby rifle as well, and my cast softpoints are going to Alberta with me next month....in both water-dropped softpoints and some with unhardened WW shanks (aircooled). The hardened ones seem to penetrate further with less upset of the harder WW shank. I still intend to try these boolits on newspaper wet-pack before my departure date.

I'd be tempted to NOT mix the lino and WWs, and maybe reserve the lino for those 6.5s.... it would be an ideal place to start research in that diameter. Seems like I now view linotype as a specialist sort of tool for certain limited situations. For the vast majority of my shooting, pure lead and WW metal fill the bill, in varying alloys and hardnesses of the two to be sure, but mostly, straight WW works for me..

[Leftoverdj]

Al, I've rarely had to pay much for tin. When I've used lino to sweeten the alloy, it's run me 30-50 cents a pound. I've come across a good bit of scrap bar solder at a buck a pound. I cast for other folks from time to time and take a roll or two of lead free solder in swap. One way or another, I've stayed in stock. If I ever have to buy at retail, I'll shrug and average it in. At my volume, 250 to 350 pounds of alloy a year, buying tin would just cost me one dinner out.

[Char-Gar]

1. I agree that 1-5 or 1-6 (lino to WW) should give you what you want.

2. I agree that WW plus a little tin will do about 99% of what you want to do. I do want No 2 for plain base sixgun loads of the magnum stripe. i.e. loads above about 25K cup.

3) I do shoot allot of Lyman #2, but mix it the "old fashon way" from pure lead, linotype and 50-50 solder having a mess of all of those.

4. I keep my WW + 2% sn for less than magnum sixgun/handgun loads and GC rifle bullets.

[BOOM BOOM]

HI,
I have had pretty good luck w/ S&W & RUGER 357s, & RUGER 44s pushed faster than 1100'/s w/ GC. out of ww alloy. W/out the GC I have to stay at about 1000-1100'/s.

[Uncle Grinch]

Thanks guys for the great feedback for what I thought may have been a "dumb question", considering all the documentation that's out there now.

There is vast resource of info hidden in this forum and all you have to do is ask!!

I don't have any 50/50 bar solder or tin to add to my mix, so I'll use what I have. I think the consensus is go with mostly WW and sweeten it with just a little linotype. (maybe just to make me feel better??).

Oh... my 416 is a Taylor.

Thanks!!