First try problems

[Magnum1944]

Hello, I am trying for the first time to cast bullets. I have a six cavity Lee 38 special mould. I have an old Lee 10 pound pot that will just heat the lead to about 700 degrees. When set as high as it will go. I cannot get rid of the imperfections in the bullets. I am a tool and Die maker, so maybe I am expecting too much. I would say that more then half of the bullets have small imperfections. They are not wrinkles. I would call them folds and just small ones.
I have tried different temps of lead and heated the mould to different temps. But I just can't get most of them with out blemishes. Could it be that the lead is just not hot enough.?
There seems to be a very small window as far as temperature goes. For the bullets to fall out of the mould the way they should. Is this common.? Thank you for any and all help. Your ideas will be very much appreciated. Magum

[docone31]

You gotta heat the mold.

[Magnum1944]

When I get the mold too hot. The bullets don't want to drop out of the mold.

[williamwaco]

I am going to assume you have eliminated all the mold cleaning and preparation problems and am going to address temperature only.

The "window" you are describing refers to mold temperature only.

You can cast perfect bullets at any alloy temperature from around 600 to around 750. I begin to have trouble at 800. I normally cast at 600 to 650

The key is to have the mold at the correct temperature for your alloy.

How?

The mold is at the correct temperature when the alloy in the sprue puddle takes three or four seconds to solidify. This means that anything less than three seconds after filling the mold, if you tilt it to the side, the sprue puddle will run off like water.

At three to four seconds it will not run at all.

This is going to be hard to do with your ten pound pot and a six cavity mold. The six cavity mold will drain that pot pretty quickly and when you put in new ingots, they will cool it off and then your mold temperature will drop.

I reach this temperature by casting as fast as possible and pouring as much alloy on top of the sprue plate as will stay there, then cutting the sprue as soon as it solidifies and dumping the bullets immediately. Do not even look at the bullets. Refill the mold as soon as possible. When the sprue takes four or five seconds to harden, you are a little too hot and you can slow down and begin to take a few seconds to cull your bullets.

This is what your bullets should look like as your mold is coming up to temperature.
Note this sequence was done with a 20 pound pot so I didn't have any issues with the pot cooling off.

http://reloadingtips.com/how_to/mold_warmup.htm

When the bullets do not want to fall out, that typically indicates either a burr on the parting line, or the mold is too hot.

When everything is working perfectly, you should be able to fill and dump the mold three to five times per minute depending on how much time you spend inspecting the bullets.

.

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

Are your boolits frosty ?

getting the mold hot enough so the boolits are frosty, instead of shiney, should eliminate the wrinkles.

Also, you should be looking at the edges of the boolit. are they sharp ? or are they rounded? If they are rounded, the mold is not hot enough.

how are you pre-heating the mold ?
I pre-heat the using a hot plate, with a steel coffee can over it, to act like an oven.

[Pb2au]

+1!
Your mold is still too cool. Those 6 cavity molds have a lot of aluminum, and as such need time to soak up the heat to start behaving properly.
1) If you can get an El Cheapo hotplate, do so and use it to pre-heat the mold while your alloy is melting. Set to medium/medium low will be enough.
2) As you cast, get a steady pace going and keep at it. No gawking and detail inspecting boolits as they fall. Just cast steady. This helps to keep a steady heat load in the mold.
3) Before you do 1, and 2, make sure that mold is squeaky clean. Hot water, a little dish soap and a toothbrush. Then scrub the devil out of the cavities and faces of the mold.
4)Since you are a tool and die guy, I will bet you have a loop or magnifying glass. Get it out and inspect the edges of the cavities for burrs. If you find one, use a new razor blade and gently flick it off. Then rub the edges of the cavities lightly with a match stick to smooth them.

Let us know if you need anything!!

[462]

What you describe as "folds" are what boolit casters refer to as wrinkles.

Wrinkles are caused by:
1. A mould that has not been completely cleaned of all manufacturing fluids. (In addition to a judicious scrubbing, it may take two, three, or four heating and cooling cycles before all the fluids have been removed.)
2. A mould that has not reached it optimum casting temperature. (For whatever reason, new casters very often fail to understand this most important aspect of boolit casting, and chase their alloy temperature instead.)

Assuming that number one has been taken care of, a properly pre-heated mould (search mould oven) will drop wrinkle free, first cast keepers.

[Magnum1944]

Ok folks. I have scrubbed and scrubbed and then I scrubbed some more on the mold. I very carefully used a razor blade to make sure there are no burrs on the mold. I also used a match stick to rub around the edges of the mold. Tomorrow, I will try again. But first................ Should I smoke the mold or not? I thank you guys for all the great advice. I will let you know how they turn out.

[Old Caster]

I have never smoked a mold but bear in mind that a Lee 6 cavity has a tendency to take a long time to get really clean even though you have cleaned it properly. I would assume it is oil in the pores but whatever it is, it can take time. I noticed when I use aluminum molds from Accurate, I don't run into the same thing and standard cleaning does the job with one try. When bullets stick in the mold, whack the pivot bolt on the handles with something that won't hurt it. I use a cheapy plastic deadblow hammer and it has lasted a long time and works well.

[old cobra]

You don't need smoke it may create more problems.

[462]

I've never found a reason to ever smoke any mould.

Proper mould preparation and reaching its optimum casting temperature are all that's needed. If you've achieved those two objectives perfect boolits will either jump out or readily fall out of the mould.

Give the mould a couple heating and cooling cycles before casting with it.

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

Regarding smoking of a mold cavity:

There are some here who do so on every mold they own, as well as, many who use a aftermarket "spray on" release agent on every mold they own. They claim success, and I surely can't refute them.

There are also many here, like those who have already posted, they leave the mold clean and naked...and barring any imperfections, they should work great.

I am in the clean and naked camp. BUT, if you stumble onto a troublesome mold and you've tried all the 'usual' things suggested here to make the mold cavities less sticky, by all means, give the smoke thing a try...of the many molds I have had (probably over 50), I've stumbled into a couple molds, where nothing else helped a sticky cavity, except some smoke, although I've never bought and tried any mold release spray. AND just to add one little hint, when I've smoked a troublesome mold, I've found that the carbon layer provided by the smoking, only lasts so long.
Good Luck,
Jon

[Bill in Ky]

Put some Kroil in your mold cavities and wipe it out with a Qtip...

[Pb2au]

No smoke, wax, oil or unguents needed.

[RickinTN]

I know I'm going against the grain here, but smoke the mold with a butane lighter and most if not all of your problems will go away. I have molds that I have cleaned and cleaned, and without smoking they cast wrinkled bullets.
Rick

[country gent]

You mention nothing about fluxing your alloy. The imperfections could be slag / dross inclusions also. I would start out with a clean bare mold cleaned pot and heat mold while pot is coming up to temp. Flux metal with wax or wood chips good and then try casting. I would pull the pot down and wire brush soap and water clen the inside of the pot good to get any build up out before starting. Another thing to try is a pot on a burner heat to where bullets cast with a ladle good and see what temp the mold really wants. A coleman stove and small lee or lyman pot and ladle will give you an idea of if its temp or mold issues.

[gwpercle]

Just be careful pre heating your mould, you can over heat and damage the mould. I over heated one, but not enough to damage it . Follow the directions Lee gives for heating the mould. It may take 2 or 3 cleaning and casting sessions for the mould to get completely clean (it seems to be in the pores of the metal) and broken in. After that it should start dropping good boolits with out hanging up in the cavity. Read the sticky on prepping a Lee, smooth out any edges or burrs.
About the "window of good casting" you are right. With a 10 lb. pot , just about the time the mould gets hot enough to drop good ones and the metal is at the right temperature and I have a good rhythm going the pot starts running low . And you might check your thermostat, Both of my pots will heat up lead to way over frosty. I know the dials are not accurate but I start with the dial at 7.5, heat things up and start casting , in a while a little frost stats to appear and I turn it down to 7.0 or just a notch above (7.15). I do best just below frosty. If your's wont get hot enough to cast frosted bullets, somethings wrong.
And don't forget to flux, anytime you see specks or inclusions.
Don't give up, there is a big learning curve involved. So many variables make things confusing and sometimes I think it is more of an art than science envolved and I have been known to employ some black magic to get a mould to work right.
Good luck
Gary

[RickinTN]

It's been my experience that frosty bullets come from too hot of a mold, not too hot of a mix. I guess others mileage varies.
Rick

[R.M.]

I'm going to guess that you're pouring slow, trying to not make a mess. Fill it fast. Have an ingot mold or some other type of catch pan under the spout, and if the puddle spills over, no big deal. You also need a big sprue puddle. This helps keep the sprue-plate up to temp.

[Magnum1944]

It worked, it worked. after the cleaning and bringing the mold up to temp. I poured some very nice bullets. I thank everyone who replied to my problem. With your help, Life is good again.

[462]

Now, when you read that a new member is casting wrinkled boolits, you can share your experience and help him or her out.

[Thumbcocker]

I love a happy ending.

[GP100man]

A new mold can be very dis hearting to say the least , I usually do 1 soap & hot water scrubbin ,then impatientence sets in & I smoke em with butane & after a couple of heat cycles the mold is finished purging from the pores , the layer of carbon is gone & the world is round again !

Glad your cleaning worked !! Bet ya lookin for a 20# pot now !!

GP

[Animal]

Man, this thread did a lot of good for the OP. But this helped me decide to get the Lee 20lb magnum melter furnace instead of the 10lb melter furnace. Thanks OP!! Glad you are casting goodlookin boolits! The satisfaction of a well cast boolit is a savory feeling!

[Animal]

http://reloadingtips.com/how_to/mold_warmup.htm


.

Williamwaco, you have some good mojo. When I pour lead into a cold mold, my boolits look more like acorns. Your cold mold boolit actually looks like a boolit!:holysheep

[Old Caster]

Williamwaco, you have some good mojo. When I pour lead into a cold mold, my boolits look more like acorns. Your cold mold boolit actually looks like a boolit!:holysheep

This sort of thing completely depends on the mold. Some will cast a pretty good looking bullet the first time and others take a long time before they start to cast well. Also, if your alloy has a marginal amount of tin, everything has to be hotter to do the same job.