When is a wait to long?

[GoodOlBoy]

I know I am a newer member on the site, although I have been lurking for years. But I have to ask. When is the wait for a product too long? Molds with no known buy date, and when a buy date finally comes (a year or more after you sign up from what I have seen) out you have a year to 18 months to wait for them? Ar lowers that people wait 2 to 8 years to get?

I know good quality custom work takes time. But I have known traditional muzzleloader builders who even make their own barrels that can get you a custom rifle in six months to eight months!

If I told a customer they had to pay a premium price, for a premium item, AND they had to wait a year to find out that they were going to have to wait more than a year to get the item..... I just don't know of many other industries that can get away with those kind of time frames.

I dunno, maybe I am wound up over nothing, but my patience for time frames on a project doesn't allow for these kinda of wait times. I mean hey! We are all going to die someday, and how do I know I will ever even GET the items if it takes 2-8 years?

GoodOlBoy

[Love Life]

It is up to the purchaser. For a one off item then I can handle a long wait. For something like an AR rifle or part then I only buy in stock. Besides, Gunbroker usually has long wait items available for a small upcharge.

[HeavyMetal]

Maybe this will put it in prospective:

I deal in Tymco street sweepers, as well as warehouse sized machines, wait time on the warehouse sweepers is 4 to 8 weeks wait time on the Tymco's is 9 to 12 months after the order is placed.

My understanding is Crown forklift has an 28 to 36 month wait but I am not a Crown dealer so it's just what I hear in the industry. Other lift truck dealers are about the same.

Hope that helps out.

[338RemUltraMag]

Let me add to this, making a bullet mold consists of much more than puting funny holes in metal. There is a lot that needs done to make sure you can get a repeatable and accurate product. Right now my molds are slow because of my cherry maker but as soon as I get a cherry in we can have a batch of molds cut in 5 days.I think that we are a tiny drop in the machining industry and because so it takes time. I am trying to source more than one cherry maker but good luck getting a grinder to make complex and one off cherries with a decent turn OR decent price.

[GoodOlBoy]

338RemUltraMag I know molds are a precise and complicated process, and I know they have to be made just right, and they take custom cherries, etc. I know all that, and my comment about the mold waits wasn't referring to you in any form or fashion. But if I right now said I had 15 people waiting to do a group buy on a mold type you have already made in the past (IE a re-run), would it really take you a year to get to the point where you would be notifying us that the mold would be made in a year and a half? I have watched some of your buys and runs, as well as the others, and I don't see ridiculous wait times on your lists.

Wait times on heavy custom machinery I can understand as well. But I am not asking for a forty ton automated bullet casting machine with custom molds to drop thousands of rounds an hour. I am talking about a 2 cav, or single cav mold. I have worked in a machine shop in my early college days as a hydro pressure vessel tester. If a customer had come to us with a vessel and said I need this how long will it take and how much will it cost, and we told them we will let you know in a year or two how much it is going to cost and how many years it is going to take to do it..... We would have been out of business in a week!

I know alot of the mold makers do GREAT work on here. I am SO envious of the guys who DO have their molds. And EVERY one of the makers I have spoke to via pm has been GREAT to deal with. I also know sometimes it's a small one man op going on, and you can only do what you can do. I also know health goes bad, machinery breaks, and somebody has to make cherries and other materials. I understand all that. But I am starting to wonder if the whole issue isn't from the small scale makers end, but from those ramrodding the show and trying to shove WAY to much down the pipe at a time. Honestly I don't know how the mold makers on here have time to BREATH looking at the group buy lists. I think that is part of where the frustration comes in for me. I would rather the group buys be started a few months in advance of that round of making than YEARS in discussion before YEARS in buy then being made. But that is from a customer standpoint. Heck I don't know maybe the makers themselves prefer the log jam, and if so I can understand the comfort in knowing there is more work waiting in the pipeline. But I am also seeing the sheer number of others, like me, who start backing out because we had the money a year ago, now we don't, or we just don't want to wait.

To all the mold Makers on the site. Please this frustration is not aimed at you guys! It is aimed at the process that we the customers have to sometimes slog through. Thanks for all you guys do for us, and all the help you give us in getting our dream boolit made into a reality.

GoodOlBoy

[searcher4851]

I reckon some folks just aren't in as much of a hurry. I've perused the group by special molds at times too, and kinda wondered myself about the wait times, but just figured that some things in life are just worth waiting for. I've never experienced an emergency need for a new custom mold, but I do understand really wanting to try one out sooner than later. If the wait time is too long, or unknown, I just don't sign up if I'm not willing to wait.

[mold maker]

Most of the time your getting custom stuff that the maker has become a victim of his own success. Starting out as a hobby that rapidly becomes a full time job, done while still working a reg job, has happened time after time here.
In order to profit from it, you must have a big enough order, to justify the expenditure in materials, tooling, and time. By the time your reputation for quality is in place, and a list of orders accumulated (to justify the tooling) at least several months have passed. Then you get or make, or order, the tooling and materials. This also takes time. Production of complicated items like HP molds, is very complicated and time consuming.
The stock items that are immediately available from Midway, Lyman, LEE, or who ever, had the same lead time involved, but in a shop dedicated to that product, over a long period of time. They are produced in quantity, shelved, and waiting for orders.
If immediate satisfaction is what you desire, stay away from custom made items. If specialized custom work is what you seek, be prepared to wait however long it takes.

[Beagle333]

Just keep watchin' for that invoice. :D

http://i613.photobucket.com/albums/tt214/shutupandjump/waiting_zps90b0126a.jpg

[theperfessor]

I am surprised at the reasonable cost that many makers charge for GBs. A shop with the technology and skilled workers to make bullet molds can probably make other products with higher profit margins that cause less grief in customer interactions.

Wait times aside, I agree with the sentiment that as far as tools and equipment are concerned this is a great time to be a bullet caster.

[CWME]

For group buys and stuff like that I go into the transaction knowing that I will have to sit patiently for the item to be made. The stuff that makes me boil is ordering an in stock item and it takes multiple e-mails and harrassing the seller to get them to ship the item. I ordered an IN stock AR-15 barrel coming up on 4 weeks ago this Monday. Last communication was an excuse about the bolts needed to come back from heat treat. Item was listed as in stock and the shipping time was stated to be one week. Starting to wonder if I am ever going to see that barrel.

[338RemUltraMag]

338RemUltraMag I know molds are a precise and complicated process, and I know they have to be made just right, and they take custom cherries, etc. I know all that, and my comment about the mold waits wasn't referring to you in any form or fashion. But if I right now said I had 15 people waiting to do a group buy on a mold type you have already made in the past (IE a re-run), would it really take you a year to get to the point where you would be notifying us that the mold would be made in a year and a half? I have watched some of your buys and runs, as well as the others, and I don't see ridiculous wait times on your lists.

Wait times on heavy custom machinery I can understand as well. But I am not asking for a forty ton automated bullet casting machine with custom molds to drop thousands of rounds an hour. I am talking about a 2 cav, or single cav mold. I have worked in a machine shop in my early college days as a hydro pressure vessel tester. If a customer had come to us with a vessel and said I need this how long will it take and how much will it cost, and we told them we will let you know in a year or two how much it is going to cost and how many years it is going to take to do it..... We would have been out of business in a week!

I know alot of the mold makers do GREAT work on here. I am SO envious of the guys who DO have their molds. And EVERY one of the makers I have spoke to via pm has been GREAT to deal with. I also know sometimes it's a small one man op going on, and you can only do what you can do. I also know health goes bad, machinery breaks, and somebody has to make cherries and other materials. I understand all that. But I am starting to wonder if the whole issue isn't from the small scale makers end, but from those ramrodding the show and trying to shove WAY to much down the pipe at a time. Honestly I don't know how the mold makers on here have time to BREATH looking at the group buy lists. I think that is part of where the frustration comes in for me. I would rather the group buys be started a few months in advance of that round of making than YEARS in discussion before YEARS in buy then being made. But that is from a customer standpoint. Heck I don't know maybe the makers themselves prefer the log jam, and if so I can understand the comfort in knowing there is more work waiting in the pipeline. But I am also seeing the sheer number of others, like me, who start backing out because we had the money a year ago, now we don't, or we just don't want to wait.

To all the mold Makers on the site. Please this frustration is not aimed at you guys! It is aimed at the process that we the customers have to sometimes slog through. Thanks for all you guys do for us, and all the help you give us in getting our dream boolit made into a reality.

GoodOlBoy

I was only giving some enlightenment from our side of the fence, a lot of guys would prefer to run 24/7 but the way we wait for cherries and like the professor said skilled man hours make this profitable but not as much as one would think. I do this mainly for the love of shooting cast bullets... No namby pamby BS there it really is a labor of love to make and see molds being used.

[FISH4BUGS]

For those of us that collect and shoot machine guns, there was a vendor that did a belt fed upper for your M16 lower. (The Shrike) Great idea. He solicited $2000 deposits, lots of people sent the money, and 8, yes, 8 years later released the product. This was after having demo units at machine gun shoots, some people go theirs at about 6 years (blatant favoritism) and he made many refunds.
8 years.....THAT'S a long wait! he didn't answer emails, phone calls, threats of lawsuits, or anything. If you complained too much he sent a refund.
So only a year????????

[Moonie]

Always go into group buys knowing it can take years to get your product. I, like most in the forum are fine with long wait times as long as there is good communication on what to expect. 338RemUltraMag, your turn around times are amazing compared to some of the others that have been doing it longer. This is precisely because of their success and I have molds by NOE and Miha, amazing molds from these makers, and I believe I am still signed up for at least one more from NOE. I look forward to getting it, but if it isn't for another year I'm ok with that because I knew that going in. All of our makers put out amazing product that are certainly worth the wait at an amazing price for the custom workmanship involved.

Where the makers we have truly prove themselves isn't in their product, it is in support of their product. Every custom maker we have in the forum has had issues with product, we are all human, they have all gone above and beyond to make it right for us.

[gwpercle]

That depends on two things. How badly you want a particular item and how much patience you have .
Now I like hand forged and custom made Randall Knives. I have placed an order with a wait time of 48 months. That's four YEARS. But I really wanted this knife, made to my specifications, hand forged in the USA. And I have a lot of patience . Was it worth the wait? To me it was, It's a knife I can't order off the net and I've ordered more than a few , from Randall, where the wait is measured in more than a year.
Patience seems to be in very short supply these days . People demand everything right now with no waiting.
Mom always said that " patience is a virtue", not too many understand what that means.
Don't want to wait for a custom mould to be made? By a Lee and be happy with it.
Gary

[captaint]

This certainly is a terrific time to be a caster of boolits. If you like custom molds, that is. We have a handful of custom mold makers that do extremely fine work. Sometimes we have to wait for that work. Sometimes not. I have signed up for group buys knowing I was in for a long wait. Hey, they don't want the money up front. I just kinda forget about it. I've lived this long without said mold - what's another year or so ?? Some of these suppliers pretty much cut their teeth right here, making molds for us. Growing along the way. They have provided great product for us and given great customer service. I'm very happy we have them and if I have to wait sometimes, oh well. I guess I'm a loyalty guy. Mike

[GhostHawk]

Somewhere way back in the misty past I somehow figured out that most of those group buys are taking a LONG time to

A get organized
B get an invoice out
C get a total for materials needed
D actually make the item in question.
E actually ship the item.

I'm currently "experimenting" with a gas check buy. Price was better than ordering copper gas checks from Hornady via Midway or similar.
But if I had ordered them commercially they would have been here within a week.

I have an order in, finally got a receipt, made payment, and now sit and wonder. Gas checks going to be here next week? Next month? Next year?

Which is in large part is why I have stayed totally away from group buys.

I know, we are an instant gratification society. I can wait for something if it is worth the wait, or if it saves me significant $. But when dealing with reloading supply's we all would like to know when what we are waiting for is coming.

So I'll tell you Goodolboy IMO your best bet is to make the best of it, go buy a lee mold and make do with that until your "good" mold arrives.

Leaves you in the best possible situation.

Meantime I sitting here watching the copper checks level left decrease, going "how did I go through 700 gas checks in a few months???"
And wondering will the checks I have ordered arrive this year?

[MBTcustom]

When is a wait too long?
When settling for quick, cheap, and sloppy is good enough for you. (read Lee, and Lyman)

Now for me, I don't buy MiHeck molds because I don't want to wait 2 years for one. They are absolutely superb, but I just don't need that much quality. The makers like NOE, Accurate, and ACE are also superb, and they can deliver to me while I'm still young enough to see my sights LOL!
I would rather pay a higher price and get it here sooner, but that's just me.
For instance, I just bought a nice brass twicebore from Accurate. I ordered on Friday. It's sitting on my bench now (Thursday) that's what I'm talkin about! WooHoo!

[southpaw]

It doesn't take that long to make the moulds. It takes that long to be first in line. They have been swamped with orders over the past few years. Both Al and Miha have gone full time and upgraded their facilities.

If you want instant gratification there are other manufactures that can help you out. If the quality is to be the same expect the price to be higher.

I am surprised that no one has mentioned the long wait times for the lee group buys, then having to send them back because they were not to spec and then waiting another year. If I remember correctly you had to pay for them up front.

I don't mind the wait so much. Most of the time I don't jump in until it is closer to the end, mostly because I just picked up a gun to try that boolit in.

Don't expect the same quality from a non custom maker.

Jerry Jr.

[2ndAmendmentNut]

Wait times are long, but usually by the time payment is required the wait is only a month or so.

[Springfield]

The wait is too long when you can get the same item somewhere else for the same price, but sooner. If you can't then you have to wait. Simple.

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

...snip...
I think that is part of where the frustration comes in for me. I would rather the group buys be started a few months in advance of that round of making than YEARS in discussion before YEARS in buy then being made. But that is from a customer standpoint.
GoodOlBoy,
Wait times for custom products, "ARE" what they "ARE".

Today, they are much better than they were a couple years ago...and I'm told a couple years ago they were extremely better than they were 4 years before that.

Many vendors are turning around items in a fairly short time. As you spend some time here, you will learn what(and who) takes a long time and what doesn't. Most GB's turnaround in 2 to 4 months...But, once in a while, circumstances beyond everyone's control turn a 2 month GB into a 18 month wait. It has happened to me...and many others here.

Lastly, if the wait is too big a deal for you, stay out of the GB's
Jon

[wv109323]

I was in the Coal Industry and sold the leading brand of underground equipment. Under normal circumstances we could manufacture a 60 ton,3 million dollar piece of equipment in six months. When the market picked up ( as it does in the industry) wait times could be quoted up to 1 1/2 years. Our company was sized to operate in "normal" times. It is not most profitable to have excess people,manufacturing capacity,parts,manufacturing machinery and such just lying around.
When orders exceed your "normal" times anything can happen that is totally unpredictable. I have seen times in a market up-swing that the company could not buy enough steel, Timken bearings, copper wire, electronic components and the list goes on and on.
With that being said, the simpler the product the more predictable led times should be. Also human nature is to quote things under ideal conditions and then some. All of us usually quote the time to make a trip in the best time possible.
Part of being a reputable dealer is having control over all aspects of your business and that includes quoting lead times. Also part of that is communicating to the customer when those lead times change. I have found that informing the customer ASAP about delays builds your reputation. Most customers will understand unforeseeable events and can adjust their schedules or make do the best they can. The worst thing a manufacturer can do is ignore the customer and not answer phone calls/E-mails.
With that said, a year is about max. on any specialty product. When a company quotes over that it is a guess at best. The manufacturer should be as honest as possible and let the customer decide if he can endure the wait time. After all the customer thought your company met his expectations or he would never have contacted you. Satisfy the customer.

[Ickisrulz]

I have often wondered about the group buys myself. Are they a carry over from the time when no one made custom CNC molds? Now you can have a custom mold built to your specs in a couple weeks from someone like Accurate. It is your choice how many cavities you want and the material the mold is made from too.

[btroj]

I have waited over a year for a Lee GB. Was it worth it? Damn right it was, should have bought 2 of that mould.

i have been on a 375 buy for over 2 years from Mihec. I will wait til it comes. It will be worth it.

how long is too long? I can't answer that for you, only you can.

I would rather wait and get the right mould than rush and get 5 that just aren't quite right.

[dragon813gt]

The wait times for the molds don't bother me anymore. But that's because I have the ones I need to shoot a lot. Any of the ones I purchase now are because I want to experiment. I was also able to pick up a lot of MiHec molds from over runs. If I really want a mold quickly, I order one from Accurate.

I know it's because of tooling limitations. But mold makers could really make some money, in my mind but probably not in reality, if they offered ones below 30 caliber. This is when waiting for a group buy becomes worth it. If the design is not a cataloged one then you have to wait.

I can tell you when the wait time is to long for a safe. Well technically it's a residential security container. Due to narrow and old stairs I was going to buy one that snaps together at the expense of fire protection. 12 months is to long for me to wait. So I'm going to buy an in stock one and unfortunately have to keep it in my garage until I can refurb the first floor of my house.

[tygar]

Now I like hand forged and custom made Randall Knives. I have placed an order with a wait time of 48 months. That's four YEARS. But I really wanted this knife, made to my specifications, hand forged in the USA. Gary

Reminds me of a Buck knife I had made in 1967. I was heading to VN in a short while & decided I needed another knife (I had already had a fighting knife made by an old blacksmith friend).

Well, Buck was near my parents & I stopped in & talked to the owner & we designed a knife kind of like the "General", except bigger. He said stop back in a couple weeks & he'd have it & scabbard ready.

It was nice that they could produce a semi custom knife in short order.

Just like the guys at NOE, 338, Accurate, etc. There ability to create semi/custom molds is exceptional.

I'm at the point that I don't find it worth while to wait 1-2 yrs. from others.

[TXGunNut]

I've only taken part in a few group buys (all moulds) but I've never regretted the wait. It's always been worthwhile. We're ordering custom molds from some of the best people in the business, not a burger from a fast food joint.

[GoodOlBoy]

Look I think I am still not explaining myself particularly well. I am in NO way suggestion that a good quality custom product should be banged out and shipped in the same price and time frame as a instant gratification mass produced moderate, to junky product. Not in the LEAST am I suggesting that.

I have custom knives made from some very fine knife makers. I paid well for them. Only one did I ever have to wait more than six months for. Yes yes, I understand if you just have to have the name Randall stamped on it you are in for a wait. But honestly I can get as good or better quality from lesser known makers in ALOT shorter time frame. Did I have to wait almost a year for a Tai Goo custom knife? Yes. Was it worth it? Yes. Would a four year wait Randall be as good or better a knife? No. Dad has some custom Randall knives. They are nice. They don't hold a candle to Tim Lively, Tai Goo, or any number of other makers out there, and I don't have to wait FOUR YEARS for a better knife. In point of fact I have several Charles Brooks custom knives (old fella that use to be around Nacogdoches Texas don't even know if he is still alive) that are some of the best quality knives I have ever held. Not one of them took more than two months to get, and not one of them cost a faction of what a Randall knife cost. They aren't as pretty as a Randall. They don't have Randall stamped on them. But long and short they cut as good or better, and are stronger than any Randall I have ever seen. Again didn't have to wait FOUR YEARS to get one. Same with Shane Stanton of Red Dog Forge. Amazing knives.

I will say again. I can get a custom rifle made in months that will outshoot me any day of the week. Why would I pay the same or MORE to get a custom rifle of the same or lesser quality and wait years for it?

I know custom products take more time. And I know some fellas successes play against them in the time game. I also know there are some snarky comments that were made in at least one group buy aimed at a different mold maker on this very site. Comments that turned me off of a group buy that was actually about to go down simply because I know from what I have READ and SEEN that the person it was aimed at is a FINE mold maker who doesn't take NEARLY the time to put out as good or better quality a product.

Will I be buying custom molds from mold makers on this very site? YES. Without a doubt. The products are WELL worth the reasonable cost asked by the maker, and several of the makers have a reasonable time frame. I am already in discussion with at least one of the makers now, and my only hold up at this point is a balance between his time frame (which is very reasonable) and my budget which got cut shorter than I expected recently. I don't expect him to hold my place in line, and he is at least one of the guys who WILL be getting my money in the future simply because of the way he responded to simple logical questions.

Again I am not asking for a custom mold, out of odd spec, as a one off, delivered the next day, for the price of a lee mold. And for that matter why are there so many Lee haters when Lee is a sponsor on this very board? Lee makes fine products, and the only reason I don't pay for custom molds through them is that I would rather give a mom and pop shop my money for custom work.

Anyway I hope I explained it better. There was certainly no insult or disrespect meant to ANY of the custom shops on this board, or anywhere else for that matter.

GoodOlBoy

[Beagle333]

If it's your 1st or 2nd or 3rd mold..... yes, it's too long. But if you got plenty to shoot and it's your 25th or so, mold.... it's not even a consideration. Either it's a profile you like or have always wanted (in the case of out-of-production clones), or it's one that you just want to test. So you put your name on half the GB's that come down the pipe and whenever they come due.... you cast 500 to try it out, and if you like it... Woohoo! and if you don't... you sell it for a $15 loss to somebody who didn't want to wait 2 years, and you still got 500 boolits for 15 bucks. 8-) Win-Win!

[GoodOlBoy]

I guess maybe that's it Beagle. I don't buy tons of stuff to try this and try that. And if I need to work up a load for a hunt this fall, it's kinda hard to do out of a mold that won't be around for YEARS.

Anyway like I said. I appologize if I ruffled feathers, that was NOT my intent.

GoodOlBoy

[Beagle333]

I agree that it's frustrating at first.... hang in there though. Before long, you'll have a pile of em and your worry won't be the two year wait, it'll be "Think how long it'll take to pay off this PayPal bill!!" ;)

[Frank46]

Not to tick anyone off but I have been in some group buys. And some did take a long time. On the other hand you get to see the specs on the drawing and have input. And I have 4 factory molds by lyman and rcbs that cast too small. And yest I could send them to erik of hollow point molds and get them recut. But that is like paying twice for the same mold. No disrespect intended to erik. He fills a need and does excellent work. And also many of the custom mold makers did come into being due to folks ordering molds from the regular companies and didn't get what the specs called for. My first custom mold was made by Walt Melander and spot on as to dimensions. Frank

[southpaw]

Maybe I don't understand your question but lets try this again. You can only make so many moulds in one day. When the orders coming in exceed the orders going out, the wait time increases. Al stopped taking orders for awhile until he got caught up on his back log.

If you need a mould fast get ahold of Tom at accurate molds. That or post a wanted to buy ad and there might be someone out there would part with theirs. Another option would be to post in the boolit exchange to acquire some to try. If they work then you can continue your search for a mould that you know will work.

Jerry Jr.

[Love Life]

Just don't buy group buy moulds. Simple solution to a really self imposed problem. Have I looked at some group buy moulds and thought "Gee. I'd really like to try that design!"? Sure I have, but I passed due to the wait and bought another design that shoots well and serves the same purpose as the group buy mould....leaves the barrel and puts holes in stuff.

[dragon813gt]

leaves the barrel and puts holes in stuff.
But now you can't say you waited 499494 months and how the group buy design puts all others to shame ;)

Not signing up if you don't want to wait is the best advice you can get. I don't take this type of thread topic as complaining. After all the mold makers do not take payment up front. If you decide you don't want to wait anymore then you simply drop out of the buy before it closes. Two years should be more than enough time to do that :beer:

[Oreo]

Try shopping around for hollow point molds. It becomes abundantly clear real fast that Al and MiHa's holliw point molds are incredible bargains. as in 1/2 to 1/4 the price of competing far inferior products. Never mind the fact that many calibers didn't have any good alternatives to choose from at all. When Al or Miha agree to fill such a need I'm thrilled they do it at all at any price or wait.

Such was the case for 40cal molds. The options were basically solid truncated cones before Al and Miha. If you wanted a hp mold you had to first buy a mold and then pay something like $100 PER CAVITY to add hp pins that were a lot more clumsy to use then Al or Miha's elegant solutions. And after all was said and done you had a $500 Lee mold. Lee! Ha!

The waiting sucks no doubt but we've come far. What I see is incredible demand driving up competition. Competition is a wonderful thing that will drive down the wait times if and where that is possible. Having been here long enough to see the progress take place helps one appreciate our custom mold makers for all they do.

[canyon-ghost]

I started shopping the main site for NOE molds since they are located only a state away. Good molds, when they have what I want, and generally they do. I've waited on a group buy just to shoot fancy hollowpoints in my 41 magnum but, I already had other molds to work with.

Good Luck,

Ron

[GoodOlBoy]

Oh I agree price wise for custom molds the guys on this site cannot be beat!

And I think part of what we are seeing too is something that has been predicted in a handloader magazine not all that long ago. With ammo prices and shortages, with reloading component prices and shortages, with all of it combined we are on the razors edge of the next golden age of reloading. Sure we look at what we can't get right now, but think about just the components we CAN still get now, and compare that to what reloaders had access to in the '50s and '60s. We may complain because we don't have all the goodies we didn't buy ten years ago, but we are STILL blessed in comparison. I think molds are headed that same route. What molds could you get a decade ago? Twenty years ago? Now look at all the custom molds these artisans and scientists of the boolit cavity can put out! I am by no means saying we are not blessed with options because we certainly are!

GoodOlBoy