45-70gov't

[JIM W]

just to let you know that my 45-70 buffalo classic is shooting very well with the 370gr spitzer cast bullets that I purchased, I know that's a no no., I am just getting started. I now have Lee production pot 4 furnace, and I have collected 83lbs of wheelweights for hunting boolits and more equipment on order, How do I choose the right mold for my 45-70, I want to shoot 405gr boolits. I am also casting my own shotgun slugs now. JIM

[drinks]

At an average of about 17 to the lb, that amount of wws will not last long.
If you are not wanting real fast loads, the Lee 459-405-HB would do nicely, I think Lyman and RCBS have a 405 gas check for faster loads.
I shoot 220, 320, 405 and 500 gr but I add gas checks myself.
The thing is addictive.

[13Echo]

.45-70s need to be shot with blackpowder and plain base soft lead bullets. Anything else is just too modern for the old war horse, besides it's fun. Get Pat Wolf's book on loading for the cartridge at Wolf's Western Traders. It's really written for the Trapdoor Springfield but worth having by any 45-70 lover.

http://www.the45-70book.com/

[NVcurmudgeon]

Jim, The RCBS 45-405 FN has been a very accurate bullet for me in an 1895 Marlin. It was very good in low speed loads, (1000-1200 fps) even without the gas check. RCBS makes high quality iron two-cavity moulds with an "if it's broke, we fix it" warranty.

[Junior1942]

Jim, my 45-70 Buffalo Classic likes the Lee 450 FP in pure lead pushed by Pyrodex RS with a beeswax/lard cookie twixt the bullet and powder. Just 1/16" or so compression. Gets 2" 5-shot iron sight groups at 100 yards.

[SharpsShooter]

Jim

I also believe the 45-70 is at it's best with Black Powder. My Rolling Block digests 405gr (SPG Lube) cast pushed along by 65gr (by weight) of Cartridge Goex with a .030 card between and puts them into nice little 1" groups at 100yds with iron sights. My 1875 C. Sharps likes 500gr pills with 60gr of the same powder, and produces 2" groups at the same distance. If you shoot modest velocities, stay with soft boolits for game, as they tend to perform superior to the harder, high velcity boolits.

To answer your question; If I had to choose, I'd stay with 400-500gr bullets with a large meplat and wide, deep grease grooves.

There ya go

[shootrj2003]

Junior1942,How did you weather the storm? My brother is a pastor there in Tullos.Shootrj2003

[LAH]

Welcome to the board shootrj2003. Are you a preacher?

[shootrj2003]

No sir,I,m just a poor sinner,Christian,patriot and Marine who is not presently in service[I don't agree with ex-Marine]I AM however,a Blacksmith,Gunsmith ,,a horseman,a carpenter,a professional truck driver,a shootist who can hit what he aims at[If it cooperates]a rough mechanic ,I also appreciate well trained horses and on occasion,sip fine whiskey.None of which seems to ,in the time in which we live promote me to a high social status or a fat bank account!However,Truck driving,through long hours and many miles,does,at least keep us comfortably provided for.I love and enjoy firearms of any kind in general but specifically,...I dotes on Marlins. I guess I was born out of my time but I deal with it.Please forgive me for not introducing myself first.Shootrj2003

[MGySgt]

No sir,I,m just a poor sinner,Christian,patriot and Marine who is not presently in service[I don't agree with ex-Marine]

Welcome aboard - By the way the Title Marine is earned by graduating from Boot Camp -

No matter what you do the rest of your life - You are still a Marine!

Semper Fi

Drew

[shootrj2003]

Mgy/Sgt, As alway's it is a pleasure and an honor to talk to any Marine,I served from 1972-1976+2res.I was the proud bearer of an M-60 for most of the time.If I could do it all again I would have stayed in as a career.it was the best thing I ever did.I just did not realize it at the time.I've done alot of things since but nothing can compare with the Corps.Semper Fi .I hang out on the Marlin Owners forum with some great guy's and quite a few are also jarheads.I belong to a lot of forums but only have time be dedicated on one most of the time.I like to bounce around and get ideas from time to time though.Shootrj2003

[jtaylor1960]

I have a 1895 Marlin.I bought an NEI #337 350gr. mold which with wheel weights gives me 420gr bullets including lube and gas check.I shot some at the range the other day.The load is 45gr. of RL-7 and CCI 200 primers.At 100yds. it will shoot about 2in. for a three shot group.At 50yds.I can keep most of the shots touching each other.This is with a peep sight.The recoil is pretty stout but, it is accurate.According to the manuals it should be at about 1700fps.Good luck,Jeff Taylor.

[PPpastordon]

After a little lurking, this looks like the place to start pecking away.
The best (most fun) way to choose which boolit is to shoot them and see how they do. I have had great results with the 340 grain Lee, cast from wheelweights. It flies true and has the meplat to smack hard.
I learned a long time ago that investing in all the moulds I wanted was expensive. Guess that is why I don't have all the ones I want. Sometimes you will find a pro-caster who can supply the ones you want to try out before actually buying the mould.
Good Luck,
PPpastordon
1 Corinthians 8:2

[BruceB]

PPpastordon, amigo;

Allow me to be the first to welcome you to the asylum, where we is the inmates, and we is in charge.

If you've been lurking for a while, you have probably already formed an opinion of the denizens herein, and if so you have only yourself to blame for diving into this pool!

Welcome, indeed, and I hope you have as much enjoyment from this Board as it has given me. It's my cyber "home", and I think it's a wonderful group to hang out with.

[Bullshop]

PPpastordon
And if any man think that he knoweth any thing, he knoweth nothing yet as he ought to know.
Brother light is welcome here by another booliter brother.
BIC/BS

[charlie / sw mo]

Welcome aboard - By the way the Title Marine is earned by graduating from Boot Camp -

No matter what you do the rest of your life - You are still a Marine!

Semper Fi

Drew
well put--the corps was home to me from 1953 to 1976. however i need some info--came across two molds on my shelf today that i havent used for years--both lyman #462560(hollowpoint) and 457130(nicknamed collerbutton). i do not find these bullets in any of my manuals. ten years or so ago i was shooting a 458 win mag maby i was using the 462560 in it. hard telling. anybody use these bullets?
charlie in sw mo

[MGySgt]

Charlie - One of my OLD Lyman books has the 462560 as a gas check of 545 grains with an as cast diameter of 463 for 45 caliber magnum cases.

I can not find a reference for 457130. Sorry!

Semper Fi!

Drew

Uncle Sam's Misguided Childern - 70 - 96 - That makes me a Boot!

[Bullshop]

well put--the corps was home to me from 1953 to 1976. however i need some info--came across two molds on my shelf today that i havent used for years--both lyman #462560(hollowpoint) and 457130(nicknamed collerbutton). i do not find these bullets in any of my manuals. ten years or so ago i was shooting a 458 win mag maby i was using the 462560 in it. hard telling. anybody use these bullets?
charlie in sw mo

I have the 462560 HP and it drops at 458" and about 560gn with WW. My old Lyman book says its supposed to be oversized at .462" but mine is .458". Shoots good in the few guns I have tried it in so far, a 458x2" and a 45/3.25". The HP pin goes clear past the front drive band which is about half the length of the boolit, and they do open up good.
BIC/BS

[The Nyack Kid]

i have a lyman 457643 that treats me realy nice . it is a 400 grn(i get 420grns my alloy) flatnose plain base . 45 grns of IMR 3031 will shot MIA when my 1886 feels like it .

[floodgate]

[QUOTE=charlie / sw mo]well put--the corps was home to me from 1953 to 1976. however i need some info--came across two molds on my shelf today that i havent used for years--both lyman #462560(hollowpoint) and 457130(nicknamed collerbutton). i do not find these bullets in any of my manuals. ten years or so ago i was shooting a 458 win mag maby i was using the 462560 in it. hard telling. anybody use these bullets?
charlie in sw mo[/

Charlie:

Tha #462560 "hammerhead" came in in 1962 and was dropped around 1978. It is one of the few cases where Lyman used the weight as a "cherry number" (#358156, #429215 and #429244 being the only others I know of). The #457130 "collarbutton'' (giving the same weight - more or less - as the .457 Round Ball) was one of the very early Ideal designs, showing up in Handbook #9 of 1897; it was discontinued in 1979, but a special run of them was made in 1999. I consider myself lucky to have both, but my #462560 is a solid-nose, not a HP.

[The Nyack Kid]

does lyman still do that sort of semi custom work ? or did they quite ? I've got a lyman 457122 which is the 330 gr gould hollow point but it has never had the hollow point pin..

[floodgate]

does lyman still do that sort of semi custom work ? or did they quite ? I've got a lyman 457122 which is the 330 gr gould hollow point but it has never had the hollow point pin..

Nyack:

So far as I know, they don't any more. But was your #457122 originally made WITHOUT a hole for the pin or a screw to lock it in? If so, IT was a custom job, and you've got a REAL unusual mould.

I'll hafta add it to my (growing) list of Ideal / Lyman "curiosa".

floodgate

[The Nyack Kid]

floodgate
as far as i can tell ,this mold origanlly came without the hollow point pin and the lock screw. it look just like my other lyman molds . i picked it up last saterday at the Kalispell gun show . i had seen it before at a different gun show but i was not interester because i though it was lymans457191 the 292 grn express boolit. i didn't realise other wise till after i got it home and weighted the boolit that came with it . 350grs mmmm 2+2=....... not 457191 ...... i done got hosed ..... oh well . it needs a little TLC but for $20.00 i think i did good .

[charlie / sw mo]

does lyman still do that sort of semi custom work ? or did they quite ? I've got a lyman 457122 which is the 330 gr gould hollow point but it has never had the hollow point pin..
back in 87 my house burnt down and among other things i located after the fire was several lyman molds that needed a little help in one way or another--i put them in a box and shipped them to lyman--cant remember the cost but it wasnt bad. most of the problems were the wood handles on the hollowpoint pins had burnt off. give them a call
charlie in sw mo

[The Nyack Kid]

err charlie
no hole was milled on the bottom of the block for the hollow point pin . it does not look like someone filled it in with a weld then machined the blocks back to shape. this boolit shape and weight makes sense, if you ask me. i dont know why lyman didn't offer this as a standard item . But for that matter , lyman has really suffered lately from the common desease of numbercrunchersareamajorpainittherearidis

[locutus]

Charlie,

IIRC,

The old "collarbutton" bullet was used for very light loads for plinking, and in some cases by guards in prisons and stockades where overpenetration was a very legitimate concern.

I'm not sure if the collarbutton rounds replaced the old "3 round ball" guard rounds, or if it was the other way around.

According to my 1975 Lyman products catalog, it weighed 145 grains cast from Lyman #2 alloy. I could not find loading data for it, but I'll betcha somebody at Lyman products can dig out an old enough reloading manual to find it if you write to them.

[snowtigger]

[QUOTE=charlie / sw mo]well put--the corps was home to me from 1953 to 1976. however i need some info--came across two molds on my shelf today that i havent used for years--both lyman #462560(hollowpoint) and 457130(nicknamed collerbutton). i do not find these bullets in any of my manuals. ten years or so ago i was shooting a 458 win mag maby i was using the 462560 in it. hard telling. anybody use these bullets?
charlie in sw mo[/

Charlie:

Tha #462560 "hammerhead" came in in 1962 and was dropped around 1978. It is one of the few cases where Lyman used the weight as a "cherry number" (#358156, #429215 and #429244 being the only others I know of). The #457130 "collarbutton'' (giving the same weight - more or less - as the .457 Round Ball) was one of the very early Ideal designs, showing up in Handbook #9 of 1897; it was discontinued in 1979, but a special run of them was made in 1999. I consider myself lucky to have both, but my #462560 is a solid-nose, not a HP.

I have a 462560 without the hollow point. With WW, it drops about 542 grains, before gascheck and lube. I shoot it in my 45/70 Marlin 1895 as well as my 458 Winmag. I like it over 30 grains of Reloader 7 in the Marlin. I use the Lee FCD and crimp it to 2.55" Don't worry about crimp groove. I have not chrono'd it,but it hits like a freight train. Ask any moose hit with it.
If you are not going to use that fine old mold, put it up for auction, I have seen them sell for as much as $125.00 for a single cavity. The only two cavity I have seen on the auction boards went for something over $200.00.

[9.3X62AL]

I have Onceabull's #462560 solid point on loan, and it is one IMPRESSIVE boolit. I considered taking the Ruger #1 x 45-70 to Alberta with me--complete with loads using this boolit, but no mastodons have been sighted there since I was a teenager--so the 45-70 stayed home.

The boolit shoots well from my #1, its .450" bore rider fitting snugly in the .449" bore and its as-cast .462" drive bands sizing to .460" in a .459" sizer. Can you say "springback?" This seems to be a good fit in the rifle's .459" grooves. All these boolit measurements are in 92/6/2 alloy, BTW.

Launched with any significant velocity, that little 7-1/4# rifle comes right back at you with this boolit on board. I suspect a Marlin lever gun would do likewise. The Ruger #1 is sort of schizophrenic--it has the strength to enable boosted pressures and high velocity--but its weight argues convincingly against such ventures when fired.

I'm not sure all that velocity is really required in this caliber--or my rifle. Its most accurate loads have used The Holy Black or smokeless loads duplicating those ballistics. Given the downrange results and recoil dynamics, I think such indications were called "clues" where I used to work. Loads producing blackpowder ballistics are an all-day delight to shoot in this rifle, a lot like a streamside stroll catching trout. The high-end loads are like summiting Sierra peaks by comparison--lots of work, and largely done "because it's there."

[floodgate]

[QUOTE=floodgate]

I have a 462560 without the hollow point. With WW, it drops about 542 grains, before gascheck and lube. I shoot it in my 45/70 Marlin 1895 as well as my 458 Winmag. I like it over 30 grains of Reloader 7 in the Marlin. I use the Lee FCD and crimp it to 2.55" Don't worry about crimp groove. I have not chrono'd it,but it hits like a freight train. Ask any moose hit with it.
If you are not going to use that fine old mold, put it up for auction, I have seen them sell for as much as $125.00 for a single cavity. The only two cavity I have seen on the auction boards went for something over $200.00.

Snowtigger:

Thanks for the suggestion, but I have sold too many moulds and had to buy replacements later on. Right now, I'm looking at a nice used Ruger No. 1 "Tropical" in .45-70 a friend has for sale (if I can learn to like that UGLY Alex Henry forend!) so don't want to let go permanently of any of my .45 moulds; but my single-cavity #462560 is available for short term loan to anyone here.

Floodgate

[snowtigger]

Snowtigger:

Thanks for the suggestion, but I have sold too many moulds and had to buy replacements later on. Right now, I'm looking at a nice used Ruger No. 1 "Tropical" in .45-70 a friend has for sale (if I can learn to like that UGLY Alex Henry forend!) so don't want to let go permanently of any of my .45 moulds; but my single-cavity #462560 is available for short term loan to anyone here.

Floodgate[/QUOTE]
I know what you mean about selling molds. I have some for the 41 mag. I haven't owned of those for years. I should sell i, but, I just can't bring myself to do it. Who knows what tomorrow will bring??? :lovebooli